t23 vs t30 vs t4x

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cainlevy · #1 Post by **cainlevy** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 12:36 pm

I'm looking at finally upgrading my T20, and I'm on a budget. I tried to justify the cost of a T42, then ended up looking at the more attractive costs of used/refurbished T23s and T30s on eBay. Here are the options I'm contemplating ... any advice or suggestions would be appreciated.

Option 1: upgrade to 512mb and 40gb on my T20, get DVD bay to complement CDRW bay. Estimated cost: $180.
Option 2: sell T20 and buy a T23 with faster CPU than what I'd upgrade to. Estimated cost: $250
Option 3: sell T20 and buy a T30 with a Pentium Mobile and better external display options. Estimated cost: $350
Option 4: sell T20 and buy a nice solid T42 like the 2379-DXU. Estimated cost: $1350

Basically, I look at the upgrades I want to do and think shoot, I might as well upgrade to a newer T23. But then I see the T30 specs and cost, and begin to think that's the sweet spot. And yet there sits the T42, at over three times the cost, in all its glory.

I was actually going to pick up a T30, then read a bit in the forums about how they're bigger, heavier, and hotter than the others. And that even with the Pentium Mobile it still doesn't pick up all that much extra battery life.

So what's the scoop? What's the T30 got going over the T23? Why do T30s cost so much less than T4xs with roughly equivalent cpu/ram/hdd specs ... is it the screen? What hidden benefits or caveats are there to these options/models?

Edit: Option 3, the T30, is out of the running, and the gap between a T23 and a T4x is fairly big ... so unless there's a super-secret decoder-ring way to get most of the T4x benefits at substantially reduced price ... ?

cainlevy · #2 Post by **cainlevy** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 12:48 pm

Grrr, now my friend is complicating things by tossing the x31 into the mix.

Life is rough finding the perfect TP on a budget.

stgreek · #3 Post by **stgreek** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 12:49 pm

cainlevy wrote:I'm looking at finally upgrading my T20, and I'm on a budget. I tried to justify the cost of a T42, then ended up looking at the more attractive costs of used/refurbished T23s and T30s on eBay. Here are the options I'm contemplating ... any advice or suggestions would be appreciated.

Option 1: upgrade to 512mb and 40gb on my T20, get DVD bay to complement CDRW bay. Estimated cost: $180.
Option 2: sell T20 and buy a T23 with faster CPU than what I'd upgrade to. Estimated cost: $250
Option 3: sell T20 and buy a T30 with a Pentium Mobile and better external display options. Estimated cost: $350
Option 4: sell T20 and buy a nice solid T42 like the 2379-DXU. Estimated cost: $1350

Basically, I look at the upgrades I want to do and think shoot, I might as well upgrade to a newer T23. But then I see the T30 specs and cost, and begin to think that's the sweet spot. And yet there sits the T42, at over three times the cost, in all its glory.

I was actually going to pick up a T30, then read a bit in the forums about how they're bigger, heavier, and hotter than the others. And that even with the Pentium Mobile it still doesn't pick up all that much extra battery life.

So what's the scoop? What's the T30 got going over the T23? Why do T30s cost so much less than T4xs with roughly equivalent cpu/ram/hdd specs ... is it the screen? What hidden benefits or caveats are there to these options/models?

I will be one of those against the T30. In my opinion it is the lowest point of the T series, bulky, ugly and the P4-M is a VERY inefficient processor. Besides, the P3-M 1.13 on the T23 is roughly as fast as the P4-M 1.6 on the T30. IMO, you should look if you can afford the T42, the P-M is a whole new level of performance. If you cannot, just go for option 3, the T23 is considered one of the best laptops ever made.

EDIT: Just saw something you posted: the T30 does NOT have a pentium mobile, they have a P4-M, which is a highly inefficient Pentium 4 with a bit better thermal characteristics. The P-M is only in the T4x series, and it is a highly powerful and efficient processor based on the PIII-M

stgreek · #4 Post by **stgreek** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 12:53 pm

cainlevy wrote:Grrr, now my friend is complicating things by tossing the x31 into the mix.

Life is rough finding the perfect TP on a budget.

X31 is one of the best laptops on the planet, but it is an ultraportable, which means no integrated optical drive and only a 12.1 XGA screen. On the other hand, the screen estate on an SXGA+ T23 or T42 is about double of that, which makes working on it more comfortable while not losing much portability

cainlevy · #5 Post by **cainlevy** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 1:00 pm

Finding a good deal on a SXGA+ T23 would probably make my decision a whole lot easier.

Thanks for pointing out the P4-M vs P-M. That'd explain a bit ... and is enough to strike the T30 from my list.

#6 Post by **carbon_unit** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 2:03 pm

cainlevy wrote:Finding a good deal on a SXGA+ T23 would probably make my decision a whole lot easier.

Thanks for pointing out the P4-M vs P-M. That'd explain a bit ... and is enough to strike the T30 from my list.

Not to mention the T30 memory slot problems.

I would also vote for the T23 in you situation. Just load it up with some memory and a 7K60 hard drive and it will serve you fine.
I just recently upgraded from a T23 to a T42 and while the T42 is a better machine I'm not sure it is that much better for the price difference.

pae77 · #7 Post by **pae77** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 2:38 pm

In comparing the prices of the various options, one other thing should be considered: Warranty, or lack thereof.

To me the three year warranty and support that comes with most new T's is worth a lot and that negates some of the price difference between buying a new T4x with a 3 year warranty vs a used, refurb older machine with limited or no warranty. Then when you also consider the extra performance and features you get with a T4x, it seems like you get a lot for the extra money.

Navin Johnson · #8 Post by **Navin Johnson** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 2:53 pm

I just went through this same decision process. I was trying to keep but was not tied to a $600 budget so that certainly pushed me in a certain direction but I went with the T23 and ordered one from IBM yesterday.

Although I did not see this thread before I ordered I've used this forum a lot in my research for buying and I certainly appreciate all this site has to offer (thanks to all).

I ruled out the T30 quickly because of the P4-M which left me with a tough choice between T23 and a T40.

My needs are mainly word processing, email, and web browsing, and esp. since I plan to run Linux these needs seem to be met nicely by the T23. (I have a desktop that can handle anything else I will need) I might have made a slight error in getting a regular XGA over SXGA+ but I couldn't find a well-priced SXGA+ (or hardly any SXGA+s at all for that matter) but I have 7 days to change my mind once I see the XGA that will arrive.

The warranty was an issue for me, which is why I went for IBM certified which gives 90 days. Not 3 years like a new one, but certainly better than an ebay crapshoot.

This will be my first laptop and I'm looking forward to playing with it. I hope I made the right choice and based upon my needs and my research I think the T23 option might be your best bet too. (although if you have the cash the T4X look really nice too!)

cainlevy · #9 Post by **cainlevy** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 3:05 pm

it's eBay, but it's SXGA+

t23

Just need to get a serial number and check for any existing IBM warranty ...

#10 Post by **ZaZ** » Tue Sep 27, 2005 1:39 am

I just upgraded a T22 with 900Mhz PIII for a friend with a 7200RPM hard drive and 512MB of memory. The performance was quite good.

#11 Post by **underclocker** » Tue Sep 27, 2005 7:24 am

T40's in great shape are routinely selling for $700 and up on eBay. They are available as certified used from $850 via IBM. These often have 1.5MHz Pentium M cpu's w/512MB RAM and fast 40GB drive. Sometimes have warranty remaining!

But the real issue for me was USB 2.0. The T40 is the first in the T series to have it. Try using an iPod with USB 1.1.

Since you're planning an UPGRADE, consider whether you'll need USB 2.0 over the next 2 years or so. Have an iPod, digital camera, scanner, printer, digitial video camera, external hard drive, etc.?

Sure you can pop in a pc card to a non USB 2.0 machine, but you can also keep your old T20.

My 2 cents.

underclocker

baraider · #12 Post by **baraider** » Tue Sep 27, 2005 3:44 pm

There is a T23-sxga+ on sale in FS forum...only 525 shipped...sweet deal...

Look, i have a t23 myself. I got the famous T42 m3u for a month but sent it back and get the T23 from a member here. After HD and ram upgrade, it has everything i need...it's much more sturdy than the flimsy T4x these days...

I just wish it has usb 2.0 and fingerprint....oh well...can't have everything.

Esben · #13 Post by **Esben** » Tue Sep 27, 2005 3:47 pm

The T23 is a great laptop. I'm sure you will be very satisfied with one.
If the price of the T40 really is as low people here indicate, that would make consider one instead of the T23.
A SXGA+ screen is really nice. Can only recommend that. CPU speed isn't that big a deal, with Speedstep everything idling along at 600 MHz anyway.

cliff320 · #14 Post by **cliff320** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 2:12 pm

I have used a t23 for the past two years now, and it is a solid laptop. My gripes with it have been lack of built-in wireless (some later T23's have it) and lack of built in USB 2. I've remedied those with PCMCIA cards, but both cards don't fit at the same time, which is still a minor annoyance. The wireless card, however drains the battery like crazy, and combining that with the battery's age, I get about 15-30 minutes when not plugged in. For me, it's not a huge issue, as I really don't take my laptop anywhere outside of my apartment. In about a year, I probably will be picking up a T4x, as I'll need the mobility. The battery performance of the new processors will be much better. I used to be really annoyed with the video memory (16mb i believe) in the T23, b/c I used to play games, but after two years of not being able to play games, I've just kind of stopped, which is probably for the better

Since I've gotten it, besides the two PC cards I've gotten, I've added RAM and swapped out the DVD-ROM ultrabay drive for a CD-RW/DVD drive. If those are issues for you, I'd recommend the T42, but otherwise the T23 has been working well for me. I've accidently dropped quite a few things onto it, but it's pretty sturdy.

Edit: oh yes, the built in harddrive is only 4200 rpm in this machine. IT SUCKS. I'd definitely advocate putting in a hitachi 7k6. The decision between t23 and t42 comes down to what you want to use it for. If you need to plug in an iPod, be mobile, or play games, go for the T42. But if you are a typical user that only uses the laptop for word processing, browsing the internet, T23 should serve you well.

#15 Post by **GomJabbar** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 7:22 pm

cliff320 wrote:I have used a t23 for the past two years now, and it is a solid laptop. My gripes with it have been lack of built-in wireless (some later T23's have it) and lack of built in USB 2. I've remedied those with PCMCIA cards, but both cards don't fit at the same time, which is still a minor annoyance.

FWIW I was in the market for a USB 2 Cardbus card for my daughter's 600E. I ended up buying a D-Link card, part of which sticks out about an inch from the side of the laptop. The card is thicker there to accomodate the USB ports. While I was in the store (Micro Center) I also saw a different USB 2 Cardbus card that did not stick out from the side of the laptop. It had a dongle that plugged into the side of the card, with the USB ports at the end of the dongle. With this card, your second PC card slot is still available for use.

loopcycle · #16 Post by **loopcycle** » Sat Oct 01, 2005 2:14 am

I have a T23 and a T41 sitting next to each other right now.
I just got the T41 and have had a couple weeks to compare the two.

Its true: the T23 feels like a sturdier, beefy laptop in construction. The weight difference between the two is slight. The T41 is a little thinner.

My T23 (1.13G P3-M/768M PC133 ram) performs remarkably well under multiple flavors of linux and windows XP. I was really pleasantly suprised how well it even ran CPU-intensive programs like Reaktor 4. Unlike cliff320, I have run my T23 (with wireless card+antenna) at full power (battery) for well over 90 minutes.

The T41 (1.6G P4-M/1G PC2700 ram) I just bought for $930 has 2 years left on a warranty. I'm using it to run Cubase, Reaktor and other heavy-duty applications simultaneously (with an Echo Indigo I/O soundcard), which it does very well (so far). Having USB 2.0 is such a relief. I hate waiting to transfer 60M .wav files over USB1.1 (zzzzz....)

MadeInJapan · #17 Post by **MadeInJapan** » Sun Oct 02, 2005 10:44 am

Tiger Direct has reburbished T23's at a really decent price right now and with warranty. Take a look. I believe a couple of people at work bought theirs, shipped for under $500.

Personally, I've liked my T30 and have not had a bit of problems with it. No memory slot problems, no over-heating. Mine does not have the slide pad, which I avoided when I purchased it. Running 1Gig of RAM on it and the internal wireless works great with WinXP SP-2, and multi-tasking is no burden for it either. To each his own, but the T23 is very solid and a wonderful machine.

#18 Post by **jdhurst** » Sun Oct 02, 2005 11:02 am

I had a T23 and it was a good machine. It continues to this day to have the best size/weight profile of a two spindle machine. But I wanted a faster CPU when I sold it.

I would not be as negative as some on a T30. I had one and it was fast and capable. I sold it to a client who needed that machine (serial port), and I now have a T41.

The P4-M is not a Pentium-M, true, but then neither is a P3. So, so long as the T30 does not have the memory slot problem, then it is a good deal. That machine with 512Mb or more of memory and a 7200-rpm hard drive will serve you very well.

Now, if you can manage a T4x, you should not be disappointed either.

... JD Hurst

Michael1980 · #19 Post by **Michael1980** » Sun Oct 02, 2005 11:43 am

But IMO P3 is much closer to a proper laptop processor like Pentium-M.

It gives you a reasonably cool laptop with great battery life and yet the performance is good enough for general tasks. I currently own a P3UL 850mhz Sony laptop and it is very usable and gives Centrinos a run for their money in almost everything.

stgreek · #20 Post by **stgreek** » Sun Oct 02, 2005 4:05 pm

jdhurst wrote: The P4-M is not a Pentium-M, true, but then neither is a P3.
... JD Hurst

Difference is that the P4-M at 1.6 Ghz has around twice the consumption of a P3-M at 1.2 Ghz while only being 5% faster max. That alone is a good reason to stay away from the T30.

#21 Post by **Kyocera** » Sun Oct 02, 2005 4:36 pm

Guess I have to defend the T30, visually it is not that much different looking than my t42, (people at work have not noticed I have a different laptop) both my machines have 512MB of ram and there is no noticeable speed difference. It has a thinklight and touchpad. I have used it constantly for a month, updated the bios twice, trying to see if it will hiccup, it has not. It is slightly hotter than the T42 but not noticeable or uncomfortable. The refurbed ones from (IBM) Lenovo have the memory slot issue repaired. I think saying it is the bottom of the IBM barrel is strictly a matter of personal experience. I know some techs from other companies who are issued T42's and R51's for use on the job and they hate them, when I try to strike up a conversation with some of them about the joys of thinkpadism they start their tirades, I just listen and respect their "wrong" opinions.

I really can't picture an "average laptop user" like myself noticing a %5 difference in processing speed. That's digging a little deep.

MadeInJapan · #22 Post by **MadeInJapan** » Sun Oct 02, 2005 5:14 pm

My T30 is at 2.0Ghz and not 1.6. I notice a pretty sizable difference running it with 1Gig of RAM against my friend's T23 with the same amount of memory. I love my T30 and it isn't leaving me for awhile.

#23 Post by **jdhurst** » Sun Oct 02, 2005 5:32 pm

The T30 I had was also 2 GHz and was much faster than my T23. The T30 was a fine machine (a bit heavy and a bit thick), and most assuredly, not the bottom of the barrel. If you can get one at a good price, if the memory slot has been fixed, it makes sense. If, further, a 7200-rpm drive makes economic sense, the package will be a fine performer. I do understand the comments here about power consumption - it was a warm machine. ... JD Hurst

grimmster · #24 Post by **grimmster** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 9:28 am

I have a T30, up from a t21. It is thicker and heavier, but it also comes with built in wireless which none of the t2X can do I believe (have to have a pcmia card)

If you do not need wireless or dont mind the pcmia card sticking out, don't care if you have usb 2.0 support (t4x only) then go with the t23 maxed out with 1gb ram and a 7200 drive. maybe pick up a spare battery also.

If you prefer to have built in wireless, t30 (with 1gb ram and 7200 drive

If you need built in wireless and usb 2.0, then go t4x

The weight of the T30 to me is not too bad, but then I dont lug it around every minute of the day.

_erazor_ · #25 Post by **_erazor_** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 10:21 am

grimmster wrote:I have a T30, up from a t21. It is thicker and heavier, but it also comes with built in wireless which none of the t2X can do I believe (have to have a pcmia card)

that`s not true. I own a T23 with built-in WLAN and antennas in the display. That was possible from the T23 onwards, but not before.

look at the specs aswell:
http://thinkwiki.org/wiki/Category:T23

So, that`s no "plus" for a T30

monkey243 · #26 Post by **monkey243** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 10:36 am

I suguest you think about the T23 from IBM or T43.
T23 is a so nice thinkpad.everything are so great,though the performance is a letter low.while T30 is too big, heavy and hot.
T43 is a really new plaform.the prices is nearly the same between
T42 and T43.but T42 is the older plaform.
so I think T23 and T43 are the good chioce.

Temetka · #27 Post by **Temetka** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 6:06 pm

I own a 1.2GHz T23 with 768MB of RAM and an upgraded 60GB 5400RPM 16MB cahce Toshiba HD. It runs rather well under XP SP2. I use it mainly for database work and some programming in VB6 as well as wireless internet.

The machine itself is well built. It's also very light. It has the think;light option in it, which I have used and rather like. Mine can do built in wireless (once I get the card).

My vote for a capable but budget lappie would be the T23.

t23 vs t30 vs t4x

t23 vs t30 vs t4x

Re: t23 vs t30 vs t4x

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