Does your T-4X mouse/cursor jerk/hesitate/freeze frequently?

Message

changhsu · #1 Post by **changhsu** » Tue Oct 04, 2005 3:32 am

I have two T-40's that have the same problem. The mouse/cursor jerks/hesitates/freezes for a moment, sometimes occassionally to as often as every few seconds. It is very annoying. The pause seems to cause a CPU spike when the machine is pretty idle, but a very busy CPU does not always causes a pause.

I also notice that my video playback jerks every couple of minutes, I don't know if it is a related problem.

I have the latest patches/drivers/BIOS, SP2.

Here are some people who have the same problem, there doesn't seem to be a common solution. It seems to be a hardware flaw with busy CPU:

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=2575

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=14308

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=14820

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=10148

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=6911

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=12269

stgreek · #2 Post by **stgreek** » Tue Oct 04, 2005 5:23 am

99% of the time it is caused by antivirus/firewall software, or by software that periodically scans for changes in your system. I have never had that in my T40 or my T42, but I mainly use Linux in both.

#3 Post by **GomJabbar** » Tue Oct 04, 2005 6:28 am

No jerkiness in my T42.

#4 Post by **Kyocera** » Tue Oct 04, 2005 8:26 am

I had that problem recently with my T30, reinstalled my OS and it went away. I know that is of little help, but that mouse freezing up is aggravating!!

Steve007 · #5 Post by **Steve007** » Tue Oct 04, 2005 8:52 am

changhsu wrote:Does your T-4X mouse/cursor jerk/hesitate/freeze frequen

Nope.

#6 Post by **jdhurst** » Tue Oct 04, 2005 9:23 am

My T41 mouse works just fine. Be aware about Norton Internet Security checking constantly for IM traffic. That does cause the machine to pause (and the mouse with it) every minute or so (or even more frequently). Just disable the check for IM.
... JD Hurst

changhsu · #7 Post by **changhsu** » Tue Oct 04, 2005 12:26 pm

Even if the CPU is busy, it should not pause/freeze the mouse, otherwise it is an engineering flaw. Other computers don't have this lame problem. My 570 and R40 does not have this problem. Weird.

Thanks for all the feedback though.

#8 Post by **jdhurst** » Tue Oct 04, 2005 9:41 pm

The NIS problem I described was not a CPU busy, it was a frequent disk write. It appeared to write a lot, and frequently, so the pausing was noticeable. As soon as I stopped the Instant Messenger checking, the problem vanished. It may have been some subtle interaction that I have not explained here. So for sure, it was a software problem, not an engineering flaw. ... JD Hurst

changhsu · #9 Post by **changhsu** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 4:17 pm

Yes, I see your point, but irregardless of whether the CPU or hard drive is busy, the mouse shouldn't freeze up. Based on the feedback and several other threads, it does seem to be a software problem. Weird thing is, there doesn't seem to be a pattern.

Thanks for the feedback.

sugo · #10 Post by **sugo** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 5:56 pm

never had any issue with the mouse cursor

Greg Gebhardt · #11 Post by **Greg Gebhardt** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 6:14 pm

changhsu wrote:Yes, I see your point, but irregardless of whether the CPU or hard drive is busy, the mouse shouldn't freeze up. Based on the feedback and several other threads, it does seem to be a software problem. Weird thing is, there doesn't seem to be a pattern.

Thanks for the feedback.

I am voting for a full restore, sometimes things go wrong when you enter software, other times software is bad.

It is worth a try as I would rather do a restore than return and wait for another machine.

#12 Post by **Kyocera** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 6:51 pm

I agree with Greg, reinstalling the OS eliminated the problem with my T30.
Sometimes I wonder about all the software drivers and updates from MS and IBM, from what I have read on this forum it is not advisable to use the MS hardware updates at all.

#13 Post by **jdhurst** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 8:20 pm

@changhsu,

I was trying something with different browsers just now, so on my IBM Desktop (2.8GHz P4) that runs XP Pro fast, furious and fine, I started up a SuSE machine (and it started self-updating), and then I started a Windows 2000 machine at the same time. 3 machines at once on one CPU - two running in startup mode. Let me assure you that the mouse was jerking around all over the place. It was not until the two internal machines had fully loaded and stabilized that the mouse smoothed out.

So the mouse *can* jerk as the result of pure CPU load. It may well be, of course, that in the other circumstances mentioned, re-installing the machine might help. I just wanted to note how system load can apparently affect the mouse.

Cheers, ... JD Hurst

chris-ee · #14 Post by **chris-ee** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 8:45 pm

I opened up task manager and watched for a good 10 minutes.

It is every couple seconds, like clockwork!!

I should have taken a printscreen of the cpu graph, it is a process that repeats itself to the same degree every 10 seconds or so, for me.

When it happens, the mouse jerks for a moment, then is fine, then jerks, then is fine for the next 10 seconds or so.

In the task manager, the ONLY process that has a spike in CPU or memory usage when this happens is "SYSTEM" 220k. This is not "SYSTEM IDLE PROCESS" 16k.

System Idle process is when the CPU is not being used, and it's CPU usage indicator is = 100 - other processes.

There was no memory spike.

"SYSTEM" process, which always stays at 220k is the sum of the system processes. Since no other software process indicates a spike in CPU usage, I believe it to be a hardware issue...

However! I decided to "End task" everything I could. I got it down to 11 processes and the jerking stopped. I stopped all non-essential software services, like Matlab Server, Apache, Java, etc, still happened.

Then I stopped all the IBM and essential services at the same time. IT stopped.

Anyone who has this problem can you please::

1. Start in safe mode (press F8 when loading) with NO networking support and see if it happens in there.

2. Do you have the IBM security chip enabled? I do.

3. Have you modified your system in any way, possibly damaging a component? I ask this because when I work with desktop CPUs, particularly ones with fragile dies, often times erratic CPU problems are a result of a crushed or damaged die or just a bad CPU.

I will be reformatting my computer in a couple days and then slowly installing stuff to see what is the culprit.

chris-ee · #15 Post by **chris-ee** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 8:50 pm

One other note,

I am replacing my Intel 2100 3B wireless adapter and also my CPU. Upgrading from a Banias to a Dothan. So I thought I'd do it in a fashion that allows me to test these components for problems. They probably won't be the culprit, but you never know!!

I will do everything in these steps:

1. Install wireless adapter
-Check to see if stops/starts
2. Install CPU
-Check to see if stops/starts
3. Reformat, Reinstall XP w/ SP1
-Check to see if stops/starts
4. Install MS Updates
-Check to see if stops/starts
5. Install all my programs
-Check to see if stops/starts
6. Install all IBM software
-Check

I'll probably be doing this early next week, so I'll know for sure what the problem is, or IF it can be stopped.

chris-ee · #16 Post by **chris-ee** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 9:58 pm

Ok GOOD NEWS:

I went through all 64 processes, deleting them one by one.

As I got down to about the last 14, I started deleting SVCHOST.EXE in the task manager.

There were 5 instances of svchost.exe, 2 network, 1 local, 2 system.

I deleted the one using the most memory, about 20000k on my system, this was one of the SYSTEM ones.

It stopped jerking!!

Now, svchost.exe is a collection of processes that are run inside windows.

Going into Administrative Tools > Services you can see all the services the system runs automatically, or manually, and which are started/stopped.

Obviously these had to be automatic services that were started when windows opened, but stopped when I ended svchost.exe, so I found the following processes which are part of that particular svchost.exe:

DHCP Client
DLTC
Error Reporting Service
HID input service
Infrared Monitor
Secondary logon
security centre
server
shell hardware detect
system restore service
windows audio
windows firewall
Wireless zero config
workstation

Naturally those are some pretty essential things to have running in windows, so you shouldn't just stop svchost and call it a day...
So I restarted the computer with the svchost running and sure enough all those processes which were stopped before, were running, and the mouse was jerking. I stopped each process and the one that stopped the jerking was:

****WIRELESS ZERO CONFIG****

Alright. Excellent.

Wireless Zero Configuration

Provides automatic configuration for the 802.11 adapters
C:\WINDOWS\System32\svchost.exe -k netsvcs
STARTUP: Automatic
Service depends on:
NDIS Usermode I/O Protocol
Remote Procedure Call RPC

This stopped my jerking problem, so this may stop yours, if it does GREAT and we'll figure something out. If not, uh oh?

chris-ee · #17 Post by **chris-ee** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 10:08 pm

If you disable wireless zero configuration, and do not have the intel/ibm wireless drivers installed, you may/may not be able to use 802.11.

If you do have them, wireless will still work, just not using windows' wireless area/setup.

changhsu · #18 Post by **changhsu** » Thu Oct 06, 2005 1:37 pm

Hi Chris!

You are right, I tried your suggestion and the annoying pause problem seems to be gone for now!!!

Thank you very much!

chris-ee · #19 Post by **chris-ee** » Thu Oct 06, 2005 2:39 pm

You're Welcome...

I've been computing all day and had no problems, and wireless works fine...actually better than ever with the Thinkpad wireless program (intel 2100 3b)

Let me know if it comes back again.

Loof · #20 Post by **Loof** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 9:14 am

This solution (disabling zero config) seems to work for me too. Thanks guys!

Loof

smugiri · #21 Post by **smugiri** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 1:44 pm

Another solution that worked for me is re-distributing IRQs. I think 'all' T4x Thinkpads come with everything and I mean everything lumped under IRQ 11 in the BIOS. Try switching just the mouse to another free IRQ and see if that solves the jerking problem without having to kill wireless services. It worked for me when I did it. you should resist the temptation to change anything else though.