Why get the 15.4 inch Z when you can get the HP8240?

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skibum1981 · #1 Post by **skibum1981** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 10:22 pm

Sorry to piss off any IBM fan boys on this site, but I personally was a bit disappointed with the Z series. I was going to buy a T, but then I realized I really want a widescreen, so I waited for the release of the Z. But given the Z60m's ridiculous weight of over 7 lbs, I really don't understand why you'd buy this laptop. In short, I am just really disappointed with the offering.

Consider the HP8240 or the HP8230. Both of them weigh only at 5.8 lbs, yet they still offer 15.4 inch widescreen displays in WSXGA+ or higher resolutions. Furthermore, the ATI FireGL V5000 is in the 8240. And even now, the 8240 can be had with 2.0 GHz, 1GB of PC4200 ram (1 dimm), and a DVD burner for only $2200 (albeit less the embedded security chip).

In short, I really wanted to get an IBM, but I am fairly disappointed with the new offering. I think I will have to get the HP instead....

#2 Post by **K. Eng** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 7:38 am

I believe the Z60m is heavier because Lenovo wanted to make it extra sturdy. This is roughly the same philosophy as the R5x series; they are heavier and thicker than comparable machines like the Dell 600m, but they are also far more durable.

backfromMac · #3 Post by **backfromMac** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 9:24 am

I had a widescreen compaq R3000z. Plenty of cool do-daads most of whic I would never has used. I have an A31 now. What a difference! The build quality is far superior. Not to mention tthe track point, or the think light or the ease of updates and continued extensive driver support. HP/Compaq falls way short in those area IMHO.

All depends on what your priorites are...

#4 Post by **GomJabbar** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 12:25 pm

Interestingly, I went to HP's site today to try and download a manual for a Compaq Presario 1267 (circa 1998-1999) for a coworker. I did find some information, but nothing like the Hardware Maintenance Manuals that are available for the ThinkPads. I could find no parts blowout or illustration showing location of the various parts.

I suppose that those that want a 'Clean Install' and 'None of that IBM/Lenovo crap', have less of a reason to stick with the ThinkPads. I find the extras that come with the ThinkPads a nice bonus. I like the fact that they keep making driver and software updates available even for discontinued models. I believe ThinkPads have better support after the sale.

hoya · #5 Post by **hoya** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 10:27 pm

I tried an NC8230 as well as an NW8240 because I, too, found the specs appealing. however, I found the screens on both to be terribly crystalized and very dim (due to HP's Panel Protection system), and the keyboard seemed lifeless. in addition, the mouse buttons were way too small and difficult to depress.

otherwise, quality seemed decent so you might want to give one a try.

redskin · #6 Post by **redskin** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 5:22 am

hoya wrote:I tried an NC8230 as well as an NW8240 because I, too, found the specs appealing. however, I found the screens on both to be terribly crystalized and very dim (due to HP's Panel Protection system), and the keyboard seemed lifeless. in addition, the mouse buttons were way too small and difficult to depress.

otherwise, quality seemed decent so you might want to give one a try.

i have the hp nw8240 with wuxga. i think the screen is fantastic. it's in my opinion brighter than the thinkpad t43p. slightly lighter than t43p as well, and way lighter than the thinkpad z60m. the keyboard feels as good as the thinkpad. the navigation track point at default is overly sensitive so i had to reduce its sensitivity for more control. built is almost as good as the thinkpad. graphic is way faster than t43p and z70m. what i liked about the hp is that the battery is completely flushed to the laptop with nothing sticking out. battery lasts almost as long as the t43p, and longer than the z60m. for a mobile work station. it is one of the lightest 15" notebooks out there on the market, being menioned before as 5.8 pounds.

hoya · #7 Post by **hoya** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 7:17 am

here is another reviewer who agrees that the display on the HP is dim (different model but same machine):
http://www.mobilityguru.com/2005/06/30/ ... index.html

beeblebrox · #8 Post by **beeblebrox** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 3:04 pm

Strange:
How come, that HP has better SoundMax drivers than the Thinkpads?

http://www.mobilityguru.com/2005/06/30/ ... page7.html

I am missing the power management option on Thinkpads, could we use the HP drivers instead?

redskin · #9 Post by **redskin** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 4:45 am

hoya wrote:here is another reviewer who agrees that the display on the HP is dim (different model but same machine):
http://www.mobilityguru.com/2005/06/30/ ... index.html

in order to achieve maximum brightness. you need to turn off ambilent light sensor. when you do that, the screen is a lot brighter. trust me on that.

skibum1981 · #10 Post by **skibum1981** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 5:32 am

redskin wrote:
hoya wrote:here is another reviewer who agrees that the display on the HP is dim (different model but same machine):
http://www.mobilityguru.com/2005/06/30/ ... index.html
in order to achieve maximum brightness. you need to turn off ambilent light sensor. when you do that, the screen is a lot brighter. trust me on that.

How many nits is the monitor? What about the viewing angle?

redskin · #11 Post by **redskin** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 8:26 am

skibum1981 wrote:
redskin wrote: in order to achieve maximum brightness. you need to turn off ambilent light sensor. when you do that, the screen is a lot brighter. trust me on that.
How many nits is the monitor? What about the viewing angle?

i don't know how many nits it has on the hp nw8240. but i can tell you this when ambient light sensor is disabled its a lot brighter than the ibm 2668-Q2U that i used to have. viewing angle for the hp and the ibm is the same when i look at them side by side, but not as wide as tablet lcd screens, which all them have wider viewing angle than conventional laptops. the thing about lcd screen is that with the hp when ambient light sensor is enabled and brightness is dimmed to the lowest i get 5.5 hours, and if i use the laptop with travel battery i get 10 full hours. with ambient light disabled and brightness at maximum. i get 4 hours, and if i use the laptop with travel battery i get 8 full hours.

hoya · #12 Post by **hoya** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 9:20 am

skibum1981 wrote:
How many nits is the monitor? What about the viewing angle?

the NW8240 with 15.4" WUXGA is 180 nits and viewing angles are ±65° Horizontal, ± 50° Vertical:
http://h18000.www1.hp.com/products/quic ... 40_na.HTML

the 15" UXGA T43p is 200 nits with 170 degree viewing angles.

redskin - would you be willing to take a picture of the nw8240 next to the T43p, both with brightness set at the full setting? thanks, John

skibum1981 · #13 Post by **skibum1981** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 4:00 am

hoya wrote:
skibum1981 wrote: the 15" UXGA T43p is 200 nits with 170 degree viewing angles.

Two problems: I was considering the Z series, not the T43p. Furthermore, I think maybe the T43 he was mentioning was not a flexview? Maybe I am wrong about that.

What's the viewing angle for the high res Z60m?

craigg · #14 Post by **craigg** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 10:03 pm

I currently own a 15.4" HP WUXGA laptop. I have to say that the screen is very nice but it's very heavy and the build quality is nothing like the Thinkpad. If you are in need of a light widescreen laptop, buy the 14.1" Z series Thinkpad as nothing else compares. If the weight is not an issue I still would go with the 15.4" Thinkpad. The Thinkpad is built better, has embedded security, fingerprint reader, led keyboard light, built in EVDO, etc.

skibum1981 · #15 Post by **skibum1981** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 11:41 pm

craigg wrote:I currently own a 15.4" HP WUXGA laptop.

Which one? The HP nw8240 is lighter than the z60m, and it is also lighter than T43ps. The reviews I have seen have all said the build quality is very good, though maybe not as good as a Thinkpad.

redskin · #16 Post by **redskin** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 2:25 am

craigg wrote:I currently own a 15.4" HP WUXGA laptop. I have to say that the screen is very nice but it's very heavy and the build quality is nothing like the Thinkpad. If you are in need of a light widescreen laptop, buy the 14.1" Z series Thinkpad as nothing else compares. If the weight is not an issue I still would go with the 15.4" Thinkpad. The Thinkpad is built better, has embedded security, fingerprint reader, led keyboard light, built in EVDO, etc.

all the hp nw8240 starts out at 5.8 pounds lighter than t43p which is 6.2 pounds and much lighter than z60m which is 7 plus pounds. i can vouch to that. the hp as wuxga which is a plus when you need to do double spread sheet or do photoshop. as far as built quality, hp professional business class notebooks are built as sturdy and as tough as ibm notebooks. the hp pavillion notebooks are flimsy that i agree, but the professional line of hp, nothing is flimsy about that.

abvc · #17 Post by **abvc** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 2:52 am

hp is crap. end of story.

snife · #18 Post by **snife** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 4:12 am

abvc - I like someone who gets straight to the point

If the HP is 180 nit then it is definitely not brighter than a T43p nor is it brighter than the Z60m - The Z60m comes with 200 nit or 200 nit MaxBright panels so IS much brighter.

Can't fault the battery life with the HP though if that is true - I have never seen a notebook that can take enough batteries to last 10 hours with normal usage. However, while I would not say that HP notebooks are flimsy, I also do not think they compare well with the ThinkPad - keyboard quality and mouse button position are things I normally have issue with.

skibum1981 · #19 Post by **skibum1981** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 8:30 pm

abvc wrote:hp is crap. end of story.

Drumroll..... oh look! It's the IBM fanboy!!!! It was only a matter of time til someone came in here and ruined a legitimate discussion.

skibum1981 · #20 Post by **skibum1981** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 8:35 pm

snife wrote: Can't fault the battery life with the HP though if that is true - I have never seen a notebook that can take enough batteries to last 10 hours with normal usage. However, while I would not say that HP notebooks are flimsy, I also do not think they compare well with the ThinkPad - keyboard quality and mouse button position are things I normally have issue with.

I think you're probably right about the quality; most people I have talked to say the HP business line is just as sturdy as an IBM, but they like the keyboard for the thinkpad better (which seems to have become the industry standard). In the reviews I have read, though, the nw8240 certainly has gotten positive comments in both regards.

The monitor definitely won't be as bright, but I am wondering how much of a difference is 20 nits? I am thinking I might be able to sacrafice 20 nits for saving at least a pound in weight over the z60m.

The 8 hour battery life is only if you use both the standard and the travel batteries. I believe this adds about a half of a pound. Otherwise, the battery life is around 4 - 5 hours. They did a good job with the power logic on the dual batteries, btw; the travel battery is the first one drawn for power and the last one recharged.

skibum1981 · #21 Post by **skibum1981** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 8:37 pm

Wanted to say one more thing. Currently I am torn between the T43p and the HP nw8240. There's no way I'll be buying the z60m.

I can get EPP on the T43p, but I am currently in Japan, and I can't call IBMs numbers (their 800 number does not accept intl calls, even if I pay for it). Does anyone know a way to get EPP price w/o calling? Is there a way to email?

Note from Moderator: EPP discussions are inappropriate in this forum. Please review the Posting Guidelines at http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=14339

craigg · #22 Post by **craigg** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:16 pm

I won't comment on EPP but if you would like the ability to make free calls from Japan to the USA and you have a broadband connection, sign up for one of the free VOIP phone services listed below. They offer a USA based DID phone number that you can use to call any toll free number for free as well as receive unlimited incoming calls. One of the services listed below even includes 100 minutes of free outbound calling to any USA number. You can use either a soft client and a headset to make a call or you can buy a terminal adapter and use your regular telephone to place the calls over the net.

http://www.callpacket.com

http://www.stanaphone.com

skibum1981 wrote:Wanted to say one more thing. Currently I am torn between the T43p and the HP nw8240. There's no way I'll be buying the z60m.

I can get EPP on the T43p, but I am currently in Japan, and I can't call IBMs numbers (their 800 number does not accept intl calls, even if I pay for it). Does anyone know a way to get EPP price w/o calling? Is there a way to email?

Note from Moderator: EPP discussions are inappropriate in this forum. Please review the Posting Guidelines at http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=14339

abvc · #23 Post by **abvc** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 3:19 pm

skibum1981 wrote:
craigg wrote:I currently own a 15.4" HP WUXGA laptop.
Which one? The HP nw8240 is lighter than the z60m, and it is also lighter than T43ps. The reviews I have seen have all said the build quality is very good, though maybe not as good as a Thinkpad.

notebook's quality is not just based on 'weight' itself

#24 Post by **K. Eng** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 4:46 pm

The latest HP business machines are hardly 'crap'. I had the opportunity to extensively test an HP nc6230, and while it's not quite as sturdy and the keyboard is not quite as solid, the machine as a whole is meticulously constructed and well designed.

skibum1981 · #25 Post by **skibum1981** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 9:19 pm

abvc wrote: notebook's quality is not just based on 'weight' itself

Umm, when did anyone here say it was based only on weight?

redskin · #26 Post by **redskin** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 10:45 pm

skibum1981 wrote:Wanted to say one more thing. Currently I am torn between the T43p and the HP nw8240. There's no way I'll be buying the z60m.

I can get EPP on the T43p, but I am currently in Japan, and I can't call IBMs numbers (their 800 number does not accept intl calls, even if I pay for it). Does anyone know a way to get EPP price w/o calling? Is there a way to email?

Note from Moderator: EPP discussions are inappropriate in this forum. Please review the Posting Guidelines at http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=14339

Between T43P and HP NW8240. Regardless of price, I would choose HP NW8240 over T43P, being wide screen format, higher resolution (1920 x 1200), firewire port with extra USB port, better layout, much faster graphic card, slightly lighter, thinner, quieter fan, runs cooler, boot up and shut down time is faster, and you can add 5 more hours of battery life by using travel battery without of having to sacrifice your optical drive slot.

I would get T43P only because slightly better lcd screen, fingerprint reader, security softwares are better, more bundled softwares, sturdier construction, and for the kind of price that you can get in your situation, it's a heck of a lot cheaper than HP NW8240 top of the line models. T43P has 2.26 Ghz CPU, and 100 GB 7200 RPM hard drive for its top of the line models. HP NW8240 only has 2.13 GHz CPU, and 80 GB 5400 RPM hard drive for its preconfigured models. HP also allows you to fully customize your laptop with 2.26 Ghz CPU, but you can only get 60 GB 7200 RPM hard drive, or 80 GB 5400 RPM hard drive for now at least, maybe they will change that in the future. But that is gonna cost you more.

skibum1981 · #27 Post by **skibum1981** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 1:27 am

Thanks for the advice Redskin. It's a tricky choice because I do have access to the EPP discount, but I am definitely leaning towards the 8240. As I don't really care about a security chip, the following model looks appealing:

http://h71016.www7.hp.com/dstore/Middle ... 701&SBLID=

Still don't know though. The EPP prices (for the hardware that comes with it) is really hard to pass by...

redskin · #28 Post by **redskin** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 5:28 am

skibum1981 wrote:Thanks for the advice Redskin. It's a tricky choice because I do have access to the EPP discount, but I am definitely leaning towards the 8240. As I don't really care about a security chip, the following model looks appealing:

http://h71016.www7.hp.com/dstore/Middle ... 701&SBLID=

Still don't know though. The EPP prices (for the hardware that comes with it) is really hard to pass by...

For the HP NW8240 model that you are thinking of getting, you can get the T43P 2668-Q2U with 2.26 Ghz CPU, 100 GB 7200 RPM, fingerprint reader, security chip for practically the same price in your situation at least. If I were in your situation I would do the same as well. Don't forget about the warranty. With the HP NW8240 models, you have a 3 year warranty, but only for USA and Canada, and I don't know why because HP tablet line has a 3 year international warranty but not for the HP NW8240 line. With the T43P you have a 3 year international warranty. Since you are in Japan, you might want to take that into consideration.

Why get the 15.4 inch Z when you can get the HP8240?

Why get the 15.4 inch Z when you can get the HP8240?

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