560x: MAJOR PROBLEM!!! PLEASE HELP!!!

[Davimation]

I really messed myself up. My brother gave me this laptop and I wanted to do a fresh install of Win98SE. The HD is parted into C and D drives. The D drive contains the Win98SE installer and C drive had Win98SE installed. I was able to restart the computer to MS-DOS mode from inside Win98SE. From DOS, I formated the C drive. I then tried to install Win98SE from the installer on D drive but couldn't. I restarted the computer and now I can't get back into DOS. I have no idea if I can even get back into DOS from startup. There is no Floppy or CD drive to boot from. PLEASE HELP!!!

[whizkid]

You need to have something to boot from. Some options:

1) Buy a CD or floppy drive... or both. As you've found out, it's pretty darned useful for a machine to have a few ways to boot.

2) Put that hard drive in another machine, make it bootable there, put it back, install your OS.

3) It might boot from a network card, if you set up a server.

[Davimation]

Thanks whizkid!

I just purchased both a Floppy and CD-ROM drive for it on ebay. I also purchased a kit to connect the HDD inside my Desktop... I figured that if anything I would be able to install an OS to it from my Desktop.

[whizkid]

You do NOT want to install to a hard drive while it's in another machine. For Windows, you can copy the i386 folder to the drive. Run setup when it's in the machine you're going to run it on.

[Davimation]

Thanks for the tip!

[Nolonemo]

You do NOT want to install to a hard drive while it's in another machine. For Windows, you can copy the i386 folder to the drive. Run setup when it's in the machine you're going to run it on.

I think what whizkid is saying is:

1: format your drive (i.e., the C: partition) while in the other machine to be bootable (ie, transfer system files). Use a win98 boot disk for the job. Boot disks available from www.bootdisk.com, though it sounds like you should already have one.

2: Create a directory on the drive (e.g. Win98) and copy the Win98 setup files on the CD (i.e., you want to copy all the files located where the .CAB files are, but you don't need the other folders) into it. (If you were installing Win2k or WinXP you would copy the i386 folder over)

3: put the drive in the laptop, and boot to the DOS prompt

4: navigate to the directory you created using DOS commands (cd Win98)

5: run setup.exe

(Note that the same will work for Win2k or WinXP installs, but in that case you run winnt.exe since you cannot run XP's setup.exe from inside DOS 7, which is what you're in when you boot from a Win98 boot disk)

This should start the installation program going.

After installation, you can delete the folder you created (though if Windows ever wants to install something from the installation disk you'll have to tell it where to look)

If I have any of this wrong (I'm doing it from memory at work) please post a correction, gang.

[whizkid]

That should work. But, the older 'pads have a BIOS quirk where partitions made in one machine don't work in another. As long as you leave the partitions alone, or make them while the drive is in the ThinkPad, they should work in another machine.

If you make partitions on a drive while it's in another machine, then move it to the ThinkPad, the partitions may not be recognized, so the drive may not boot.

[carbon_unit]

I believe the same applies to formatting partitions on a desktop machine for use in a thinkpad. Don't do it.
The installation files you are looking for will be in the E:\Win98 folder. I would put them in a folder on the D:\ drive named "Win98" and I would leave them there after the installation so when you make changes or add programs to windows it will not ask you to "put the windows 98 cdrom in", it will just get the files from the D:\Win98 folder. This makes life much simpler when you don't have a cdrom with you all the time.

[Nolonemo]

As I recall, low level formatting (i.e., creating partitions) the drive in my desktop resulted in problems in my old 560X, but a high level format and system file transfer done in the desktop was O.K. But that was a while ago, and my memory is vague now.

In any event, since the OP has a floppy on the way, he can format the drive in the TP and then copy over the files with the drive in the desktop.

Or if he doesn't want to wait, give a try formatting the C: drive in the desktop and see how it worits.

I too recommend keeping the Win98 folder somewhere on the machine, it's not that large and it makes installing new drivers than need an additional file from the Win98 install files a lot easier.

[whizkid]

Drifting away from the topic at hand... but low level formatting is not the same as partitioning. Partitioning writes the first block with your partition table. A low level format writes tracking information on the drive platters, and according to drive manufactures pretty much never needs to be done on modern drives.

[MadeInJapan]

Now that you have a floppy and a CD drive, personally I would boot up with a Win98 boot disc and fdisk and delete all partitions and remake just one...and make it active. Then select to format it...do it all in FAT32. Get rid of your "D" drive this way, with one larger "C" drive.

Now, after formatting, boot again with your Floppy, and activate your CDrom (with the Win98 Setup disc in it)... The site mentioned above has a bootable floppy that will do this.

Next switch to your "C" drive just by typing C: at the prompt.
Within the C drive make a directory and name it Win98, by typing "MKDIR Win98" (without the quotes). Now go back to your Cdrom by typing "D:" or whatever the letter of the drive is (without quotes). Now type "Dir/P" to see what is on the CD. The enter key will allow a look at the files a page at a time (thus the /P). If the setup file is in a folder on the disc, such as Win98, then navigate to it by typing (from the CD's promt), "CD/ D:\Win98" (without the quotes again, and assuming the CD drive is D). Once you're there, make sure it is the right one by typing "Dir/P" again....Once everything is confirmed, type "Copy *.* C:\Win98" (also without the quotes, and note that there is a space between the *.* and C) and it will copy ALL of the Win98 folder's contents onto the C Drive and into the Win98 Folder. ONce this is done, navigate to the C:\Win98 folder by typing C: and then "CD/ C:\Win98" and then once you're there, type "Setup" (once again without quotes)) and setup should automatically start in "C" as it should, going through a scan disc of the disc first.

Hope this helps.

As an added note, if you do want to keep the "D" partition on your hard drive, it may be worth looking at it by fdisking the drive as mentioned above anyway. I have used a 2nd partition for software and setup files, but tend to keep it small. You can remake that partition to any size you want by killing all partitions and starting over. I mention this because you don't want a "C" drive that is very tiny and a huge "D" partition.

[Davimation]

Just recieved floppy drive today and SUCCESSFULLY reinstalled Win98.

Thank you guys for all your help!!!

[Davimation]

Okay, I bought the external Floppy drive with enclosure and a CD-ROM drive that can replace the floppy drive in the enclosure. With the CD-ROM installed, I can manually eject the tray out and insert a CD but Windows is not recognizing it. *NOTE- The CD_ROM was meant for TP 600 series. So I thought that maybe I could just installl the drivers for that series. Still nothing. Maybe its not possible to make this work but I would appreaciate any suggestions anyone might have. I'm really trying to bring this laptop back to life... even though I know its way past its prime. I just want to make it into a homework/internet laptop. Also, I did install Win2000 upgrade from Win98SE... just so you know.

[whizkid]

The 600 series does not have an external CD-ROM. It has an external floppy, but the CD-ROM drive will not fit in that case.

I'm not sure what you really have, so I can't offer any advice.

Can you share the part numbers of the devices you have?

[Davimation]

CD-ROM model # XM-1902B, This drive is meant to be installed directly into a ThinkPad 600 600E 600X. You are right about the external enclosure... I had to modify the case slightly so that the CD-ROM could fit into it perfectly. Its getting power inside the enclosure, I just can't get the ThinkPad to recognize that its there.

[whizkid]

The CD drive will not work in the floppy enclosure. You'll need a parallel or PCMCIA CD drive and then you can use drivers to get it working.

[Davimation]

There is no way to make it work in the enclosure? The connector on the back of both the Floppy and CD-ROM are the same and I am able to get it to power up and eject its tray. When I put a disc in its even firing up and reading the disc... my ThinkPad just isn't displaying the drive. I have a USB CD-RW drive but I was really hoping that I could do this so that I wouldn't need to lug around the bulky USB drive, USB cable, and plug in its power cord everytime I need to read a CD.

[whizkid]

No way at all.

[Davimation]

Do they make a Parallel enclosure that I can insert the drive into?... and would it require an external power source because I'm trying to elimate that factor. I will be using both PCMCIA slots for a Wireless card and a USB 2.0 hub. If I have to, I will give up on the USB 2.0 card for the option to have a CD-ROM drive that doesn't require an external power source.

[whizkid]

I know IBM doesn't make one, and I doubt anyone else would make one, and the parallel port spec does not allow for enough power for anything like spinning a CD.

[Ken Edmonds]

I can't imagine any conceivable reason for deleting the D drive and having a bigger C drive. If you use the D drive for data storage and the Windows installation becomes corrupted or whatever, your data's still there. The first thing I do with any hard drive in any machine is create a D drive.

IBM do a self-powered USB CD drive which I'm certain I've used on my 560X. There's also the PCMCIA Portable Drive Bay which will accept the 600 series CD drive.

[whizkid]

I haven't used a separate data partition for years. That's what backups are for.

I used to keep a small C partition, but as Windows ballooned, the C drive was never big enough. And if you make it big enough, you have a load of unusable space on your drive. What a waste.

With storage as cheap as it is, there's no reason to deal with the inconvenience of two virtual drives on your laptop. And as stable as Windows has been lately, the only real problem to worry about is the drive failing, and of course, that doesn't protect a second partition.

Of course, that's just my opinion, and I'm glad you have the option to keep separate drives if you like.

[Ken Edmonds]

It's rumoured that XP is more stable than say '98, but there's no way it will run at a useable speed, if at all, on a 560X.

Like most people, I don't do backups as often as I should, and again, a 560X isn't the easiest machine to take backups from. I might try a CD-writer in the Portable Drive bay - that should make it's head hurt.

Apart from that, I don't want my files mixed up with the operating system.

[Davimation]

Win2000 is running slow enough as it is on my 560x that I can't even imagine running XP on it.

I looked up the IBM Portable Device Bay and its dicontinued. I did an ebay search and found some PCMCIA drives that should work.

Thanks for all your suggestions!

[Ken Edmonds]

I got my Portable Device Bay on Ebay (UK) about 6 months ago for just over £20, around $35 I guess. Less than 10% of IBM's last list price.

I haven't tried everything in it yet but it seems it should take all the 600 series accessories which makes it very usefull.

[dsvochak]

I've got a 560Z running W2k. If you max out the memory (still available on eBay relatively cheap) and disable all the services you really don't need, it runs pretty well except for booting from off. If you hibernate, you cut that time down significantly.

A standard CompUSA brand PC USB 2.0 card works and with something like that you can use all the USB stuff available like hard drive enclosures, etc for backing up or cloning the drive. With W2k I've got a 40g Hitachi drive it in with a single partition.

I keep mine around basically as a disaster machine, and for sentimental reasons, but it's still pretty good for word processing and basic computing.

[Nolonemo]

I ran Win2K on my 560X with the memory maxed out to a whopping 96MB. It was more sluggish with 2k than with 98, but much more stable. I noticed the sluggishness on boot and in opening programs. I suspect that the performance with XP will be similar, as long as you turn off all the eye candy (adjust performance options for "best performance." OTOH, I can't see a reason to move from 2k to XP performance- or stability-wise.

[Ken Edmonds]

I've got 98SE on mine and, generally speaking, it's fine. To be fair, it's never done anything particularly demanding but I honestly don't recall it ever crashing. 96 Mb and 6 Gb drive (I think) but it's only a backup now. The screen size was beginning to be a problem (I'm getting older, or rather my eyes are) and it really struggled with a wireless network.

I've had a 600X for a few years but it can get a bit heavy after a time if you really use it on your lap so I bought a 570E as well. The 570E dual boots into 98SE and XP. I tend to use XP, reluctantly as I don't like it and think NT 5.1 is unnecessary for home use, but 98SE really doesn't like the wireless network card.

The 600X boots into 98SE, 2K, BeOS and a couple of flavours of Linux. Still can't get my head around Linux but I keep trying...