Returning T42p for T43p

Message

fibersnet · #1 Post by **fibersnet** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 7:55 pm

Hello,
Unfortunately after reading many depressing posts about the state of the Intel 2200BG/2915 Wireless Network cards, I have decided to return my IBM T42p.

I am still covered under the 30 day warranty so I will be exchaning this for the: 2668H8U

Product Description ThinkPad T43p 2668 - Pentium M 770 2.13 GHz - 15" TFT
Dimensions (WxDxH) 13 in x 10.6 in x 1.4 in
Weight 5.7 lbs
Localization English / United States
System Type Notebook
Built-in Devices Stereo speakers, wireless LAN antenna, Bluetooth antenna
Processor Intel Pentium M 770 2.13 GHz
Cache Memory 2 MB - L2 cache
RAM 1 GB (installed) / 2 GB (max) - DDR II SDRAM - 533 MHz
Hard Drive 60 GB - 7200 rpm
Optical Storage DVD-Writer - plug-in module
Display 15" TFT active matrix UXGA (1600 x 1200)
Graphics Controller ATI MOBILITY FIRE GL V3200 - 128 MB
Audio Output Sound card
Telecom Fax / modem
Networking Network adapter - Ethernet, Fast Ethernet, Gigabit Ethernet, Bluetooth, IEEE 802.11b, IEEE 802.11a, IEEE 802.11g
Wireless NIC ThinkPad 11a/b/g
Input Device Keyboard, TrackPoint, UltraNav
Power AC 120/230 V ( 50/60 Hz )
Battery Lithium ion
Run Time (Up To) 5.7 hour(s)
Operating System Microsoft Windows XP Professional
Manufacturer Warranty 3 years warranty

This will cost ~$2200, around $300 more than my t42p.

I fell in love with the 15" UXGA flexview 1600x1200

And most importantly, I will be running the Thinkpad 11A/B/G Mini PCI Adapter II which is a rebranded Atheros chipset.

I use linux extensively and this card should be well supported under the madwifi driver.

Are there any caveats i should know about the t43p? How about the issue with the fan noise?

Thanks

christopher_wolf · #2 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 8:01 pm

Well, if it was a T42 you were returning for a T43p; then there might be a significant issue with fan noise; but from what I have seen in the Forums, the T42p seems to have a similar condition with its fan as the T43/p

ddutta · #3 Post by **ddutta** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 9:35 pm

My Sept 2005 T43 model is quieter than my Oct 2004 T42. So the noise issue may not be a big factor in decision making.

darrenf · #4 Post by **darrenf** » Sun Nov 06, 2005 9:14 am

My T42p is as quiet as my T42. Nothing like the T43s I've heard (including T43p). I hope the noise has been fixed. I get a new T43 in next week. I'll take a listen and report back.

-darren

Greg Gebhardt · #5 Post by **Greg Gebhardt** » Sun Nov 06, 2005 9:40 am

My T43p is as quiet as I could ever expect.

pae77 · #6 Post by **pae77** » Sun Nov 06, 2005 11:17 am

Same with my T42p. Very quiet.

CoolDragon · #7 Post by **CoolDragon** » Sun Nov 06, 2005 12:43 pm

How can you get this 2668H8U at $2200? Sounds like a very very good deal.

Ojisan · #8 Post by **Ojisan** » Sun Nov 06, 2005 12:56 pm

Having used T42p (2373-Q1U, KXJ) and T43 (non p, 2668-75u) side by side, the fan on T43 was louder but it's not as bad as it might seem from this forum postings.

The extra power you get from T43/p is nice. My Matlab benchmark on T43 was slightly better than T42p.

My biggest turn-off was the 2010 error. I have a second HDD which I have been using with Fedora Core and I want to swap out with the WinXP drive from time to time. Without this error, I would be fine with T43p (I'm a Flexview fan as well).

The wireless part is tricky business on Linux as you probably know. Given that you may have to compile and install for each kernel update, madwifi has worked ok for me (all my machines above had Atheros chipset).

If I were you, I would try to get the 100GB so you don't have to worry about swapping later.

Good luck!

floyyed · #9 Post by **floyyed** » Sun Nov 06, 2005 4:32 pm

Ojisan wrote:Having used T42p (2373-Q1U, KXJ) and T43 (non p, 2668-75u) side by side, the fan on T43 was louder but it's not as bad as it might seem from this forum postings.

The extra power you get from T43/p is nice. My Matlab benchmark on T43 was slightly better than T42p.

My biggest turn-off was the 2010 error. I have a second HDD which I have been using with Fedora Core and I want to swap out with the WinXP drive from time to time. Without this error, I would be fine with T43p (I'm a Flexview fan as well).

The wireless part is tricky business on Linux as you probably know. Given that you may have to compile and install for each kernel update, madwifi has worked ok for me (all my machines above had Atheros chipset).

If I were you, I would try to get the 100GB so you don't have to worry about swapping later.

Good luck!

Never change to T43P !!!!!
cost more, but it drives you crazy w/ fan issue!!

Go to get a T42p 2373-Q1U
good price and you may change hard drive to 7K100 100GB w/o 2010 issue

I have already installed 7k100 100GB + 2GB Elpida memory
IT AWESOME!!

T42p

christopher_wolf · #10 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Sun Nov 06, 2005 4:38 pm

Well, the above post speaks for itself

As do most of the other scape-goating posts about T43s

The 2010 Error is a small issue if you get a 100GB drive in it to being with; I agree, it shouldn't be there in the first place...but then again, I think IBM/Lenovo knows this.

I have yet to notice the fan annoying me in a quiet room as it spools up if I get over a certain temperature, then comes back down after it did its job, imagine that...the fan *doesn't* spin just to annoy people; it actually did its job cooling something off. You might get a different impression from reading all the posts here about the function of a Fan; it isn't that I expect it to run at high rpm moving air and still be perfectly silent (i.e. either below the range of human hearing or of low enough amplitude). I have listened to a T42 in the same quiet room and have noticed that the fan is only slightly more quiet than my T43..then again though, the T42 wasn't performing (plus, it didn't have all the features mine did, which I assume made a difference) as much as my T43 did and, therefore, ran slightly cooler. If it is the same fan, I highly doubt that they would change the logic in it that much to deal with the T43's System. I am not hard of hearing, I can hear the HDD and the Fan in a Quiet room (not the high pitched noise so far, although I have only heard it three times)...not in Class Lecture or in the Library; if there is indeed some issue here, it is either I am not picking it up or it is being exagerrated to quite some extent. I personally think that 90% of all complaints are of the latter form.

fibersnet · #11 Post by **fibersnet** » Sun Nov 06, 2005 7:26 pm

christopher_wolf wrote:Well, the above post speaks for itself

As do most of the other scape-goating posts about T43s

The 2010 Error is a small issue if you get a 100GB drive in it to being with; I agree, it shouldn't be there in the first place...but then again, I think IBM/Lenovo knows this.

I have yet to notice the fan annoying me in a quiet room as it spools up if I get over a certain temperature, then comes back down after it did its job, imagine that...the fan *doesn't* spin just to annoy people; it actually did its job cooling something off. You might get a different impression from reading all the posts here about the function of a Fan; it isn't that I expect it to run at high rpm moving air and still be perfectly silent (i.e. either below the range of human hearing or of low enough amplitude). I have listened to a T42 in the same quiet room and have noticed that the fan is only slightly more quiet than my T43..then again though, the T42 wasn't performing (plus, it didn't have all the features mine did, which I assume made a difference) as much as my T43 did and, therefore, ran slightly cooler. If it is the same fan, I highly doubt that they would change the logic in it that much to deal with the T43's System. I am not hard of hearing, I can hear the HDD and the Fan in a Quiet room (not the high pitched noise so far, although I have only heard it three times)...not in Class Lecture or in the Library; if there is indeed some issue here, it is either I am not picking it up or it is being exagerrated to quite some extent. I personally think that 90% of all complaints are of the latter form.

Thanks for the heads up on the hard drive, I will ask for the price of a 100GB drive.

Also, you guys still recommend the T42p even though the bus is much slower, doesn't support PCI-X, and is last generation?

The price difference is minimal.

Thanks

darrenf · #12 Post by **darrenf** » Sun Nov 06, 2005 9:58 pm

floyyed, I'm with you man - that's my rig and it rocks!

fibersnet, based on christopher_wolf's post (and others) I would assume that Lenovo has fixed the fan problem in the T43. I never work in a quiet enough room to hear the fan in a T42(p) but the T43s that I was getting up to two months ago were crazy loud (for a T4x).

If the fan problem is fixed then there is probably no reason to stay with the T42. The 2010 error only pops up at startup (if I've read posts correctly) so if you use standby like I do, you'll only see the error once a week or so.

I haven't done the benchmarks, but my understanding is that the x300 is a slower GPU than the 9600 but the faster bus may make up some of that performance difference. It's really a shame that no T43 comes with the x600.

BTW: I almost never run my laptop on AC. I've long wondered if that explains the two different camps of perception on the fan issue.

Good luck!

-darren

darrenf · #13 Post by **darrenf** » Sun Nov 06, 2005 10:01 pm

fibersnet, what are the problems with the 2200BG that led you to consider the switch?

-darren

fibersnet · #14 Post by **fibersnet** » Sun Nov 06, 2005 10:59 pm

darrenf wrote:fibersnet, what are the problems with the 2200BG that led you to consider the switch?

-darren

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=17123
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=14178

Connection starts off fast, then drops dramatically. Wireless is an integral part in my job and it needs to function correctly.

SSH sessions can not drop randomly and transfers can not stall intermittently. I suppose I could wait for a firmware upgrade, but I have no idea how long that will take.

After calling IBM and Lenovo, they refuse to acknowledge that some/all 2200BG's suffer from this problem.

darrenf · #15 Post by **darrenf** » Sun Nov 06, 2005 11:29 pm

Have you had these problems with your laptop? I have preferred the 2200BG card for over a year because it has, until very recently, delivered better wireless reach than the IBM card. The last IBM card I tried seemed to have the same sensitivity, so this might no longer be a concern.

Early on, I had trouble with the 2200BG using WPA but recent drivers have taken care of the problem.

Keep in mind that there are a zillion 2200BG chips out there. When someone reports a problem, there are so many variables involved (OS, drivers, encryption, AP, interference) that I wouldn't be too quick to condemn the chipset.

I use the 2200BG on multiple networks all day and have yet to notice this behavior, at least on a T42(p).

-darren

fibersnet · #16 Post by **fibersnet** » Mon Nov 07, 2005 1:09 am

darrenf wrote:Have you had these problems with your laptop? I have preferred the 2200BG card for over a year because it has, until very recently, delivered better wireless reach than the IBM card. The last IBM card I tried seemed to have the same sensitivity, so this might no longer be a concern.

Early on, I had trouble with the 2200BG using WPA but recent drivers have taken care of the problem.

Keep in mind that there are a zillion 2200BG chips out there. When someone reports a problem, there are so many variables involved (OS, drivers, encryption, AP, interference) that I wouldn't be too quick to condemn the chipset.

I use the 2200BG on multiple networks all day and have yet to notice this behavior, at least on a T42(p).

-darren

At first, I thought it was a Linux Driver problem, then I experienced the same thing in Windows (stock IBM install). I tried different access points and then after googling the symtoms, many many people have had this problem.

Maybe its not the 2200BG line in general, but only on some of the newer chipsets they are using.

christopher_wolf · #17 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Mon Nov 07, 2005 2:26 am

Interesting, I have the 2915 and have yet to notice a problem

bingbing · #18 Post by **bingbing** » Mon Nov 07, 2005 2:40 am

Display 15" TFT active matrix UXGA (1600 x 1200)
Graphics Controller ATI MOBILITY FIRE GL V3200 - 128 MB
Does this graphic chip work well? I have heard that ATI MOBILITY FIRE GL V3200 have the same core as ATI's X600? Is it a truth?

darrenf · #19 Post by **darrenf** » Mon Nov 07, 2005 2:43 am

fibersnet, that is most unfortunate. I wonder if IBM would have an answer for you if you called for support. They might even offer you an IBM wireless card if you agreed not to send the laptop back.

-darrenu

fibersnet · #20 Post by **fibersnet** » Mon Nov 07, 2005 5:38 pm

darrenf wrote:fibersnet, that is most unfortunate. I wonder if IBM would have an answer for you if you called for support. They might even offer you an IBM wireless card if you agreed not to send the laptop back.

-darrenu

Apparently this laptop has a whitelist of NIC's that it is allowed to use.
This can be circumvented with a BIOS hack, but I doubt IBM/Lenovo would want me to do that.

For more info on that: http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~mjg59/thinkpad/wireless.html

By the way, I have RMA'ed this laptop, a new one is being shipped to me and IBM is picking up tabs for shipping.

Great customer support and a very good sales rep.

Returning T42p for T43p

Returning T42p for T43p

Re: Returning T42p for T43p

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