Another indepth 2378 DXU 15" SXGA review or I miss Old

[bluedoc]

Another indepth 2378 DXU 15" SXGA review or IBM where art thou quality name?

Just wanted to say thank you to everyone on the bulletin for helping me in selecting my laptop - the exhaustive search of 6 months was long but necessary. My review came from a guy who has laptops most of his adult life and a bit of computer tinkering experience. Previously, I owned a Toshiba, a Compag, a Dell and lastly a Sony. I really like the quality of my Sony laptop but at 7+ lbs it was just too heavy and slow to carry to school even only on occassions. Unfortunately, to replace my Sony with something similar from Sonystyle it would cost close to $3000 after tax and no saving in the excess weight either. I have always wanted to buy a Thinkpad having lusted over the quality and feel of the keyboard of my friends' Thinkpads but the prices were always beyond what my school loans will allow. So after another educational loan, I decided to go with Big Blue for the supposed better quality and designs.

My 2378 DXU 15" Thinkpad came today. Ordered at the end of June, scheduled for delivery at the end of July but came less than 2 weeks of purchase later. Impressed at the speed of modern manufacturing process. The notebook was munufactured on June 28. And 2-day express delivery by UPS was worth every penny.

Out of the box the DXU was a black beauty in designs and artistry. At close to 6 lbs this baby was smaller and lighter than I had imagined and quite portable. On my lap the screen's weight can pull the whole front of the notebook a bit off of my legs. IMHO, too much weight in the screen panel for a balanced center of gravity. On my desk the Thinkpad is quite a view of modern designs and functions to look at.

On the first power-on, Windows did a dish scan for errors - must of been those UPS guys doing the tumbles and fumbles to get it delivered in 2 days from China. No errors found thank God.

Flexview screen is over-rated. My 3-year old Sony 14" XGA Xbrite screen is still brighter . The Flexview is still a bit too washed out than I would like. Color saturation is ok. No dead pixels yet - but I really didn't check and am crossing all my fingers for now. Like most people I also have a column of gray shadow on the lower left portion of the screen. On a direct view there is nothing problematic seen but place yourself at the center of the screen then out of the corner of your eyes - the wavy shadow. A bit annoying, must of been an LCD design problem. On the left palm rest, right on top of the empty PCMCIA case the plastic also flexes and bends with minimal palm pressure. I am not sure why they didn't make the palm rest cover portion in magnesium alloy instead of thin ABS plastic.

15" vs 14". I was one of those who straddled the fence for a long time on which to purchase and how much will an extra pound bear on my shoulder. Now I am glad that I got the 15" because it's not much bigger and the 14" models just have too many manufacturing problems. But I can only imagine how nice it would be to hold the svelt body of the 14" model (laptop that is). If portability is utmost important then go for the 14". Battery life saving, I am told, is about 30-40 minutes between the 2
models - which is quite a lot.

The battery was made by Sanyo but I only found that out when I noticed that the left side was quite lose. I can move the left side of the battery, despite being in a locked position, a millimeter or two. A two-hook latch would fix this problem or a better ruler for the designers would certainly do it. Some people tried scotch tape but that's too ghetto style for me. Nothing new here - numerous complaints abound.

And now for the worst shock of all - the build quality of the keyboard. As a touch typist and someone who once thought, "some day I will save enough money to buy an expensive Thinkpad to rellish in the soft touch of the keyboard as my other rich college friends" I was quite [censored] when I typed on my 30-min old Thinkpad - no, upset - no, more like angry. What the hell were you thinking IBM (person in charge of buying the parts)? For some specific descriptions, the right side flexes down when I
press the Enter key, same with the other keys on the right but in lesser degrees - on the other hand the right side portion is rigid. All the keys are very hard, very noisy and quite sticky. I once spilled a few drops of Coke on my Toshiba keyboard and now nostalgia has took hold again. I thought of cursing my bad luck and RMA the shoddy made laptop but decided to call IBM customer service first.

Well, their customer service is quite commendable, after 40 minutes with a few transfers, the tech guy gave me instructions on how to do surgery on my mint Thinkpad to "reseat" the keyboard. Of course it didn't help since the problem lies in the cheap toy-like keyboard and not its position. For your information, it's a Chinese-made keyboard which is not on par as the Thai-made keyboard as mentioned by other owners with a similar problem. I asked for the Thai-made keyboard as a replacement but the tech guy told me it's back-ordered and will take at least 10 days meanwhile he has a "US-made" keyboard replacement he can send out by tomorrow. Hmm really, I am not at all convinced about this "US-made" keyboard since other users really like the Thai-made one. But he told me that if it didn't work out with the new keyboard then I can call him again and he'll get me the other keyboard. Promises, promises. I hope I am not wasting my time and patience but I would really like to keep the laptop. So the new Sony battery and "US made" keyboard will be here tomorrow, after some minor surgeries I will post again of my new adventures.

While I am pleased that IBM is willing to help customers with their problems but why create the problems in the first place. Now, I am sure that producing the keyboard in China where the notebooks are also assembled will save some money but does it worth alienating customers and ruin a reputation of a purveyor high quality products you have built over so many years? Not many can touch, feel and test IBM products on display (I can do it only through friends who own previous models) so to start substituting poor quality products after the initial high quality products sent for reviews is down right deceptive and an invitation for a negative backlash. I hope my encounter is an isolated case but it is not and should ring some bells at headquarter. Think "Right the first time" like the other Japanese manufacturers, not "Cheaper the second run".

At 1.7 Mhz and 512 meg of RAM (manufactured by HYNIX(2nd tier ram maker?)) made the laptop quite responsive and fast. The 7200 rpm Hitachi hard drive is quiet and fast but the trade off would be a little gentle massage and revving at the right palm rest. My personal choice would be an 80gig 5200rpm for better battery life and heat dissipation. I also noticed that my batter indicator just goes down precipitously - 99, 98, 97, 95 within minutes. Someone reported that the indicator is not sensitive or something and I just don't want to think about it now.

One other thing, the included IBM power adapter doesn't have a power-on LED indicator like all the other laptops', must of save IBM a few bucks here too. Not a problem for me but annoying.

Overall, I like the slim design but the substitution of cheap, low quality parts just took the wind out of my overly enthusiastic ownership of an IBM thinkpad. I don't even want to think that IBM is now like Dell. Ok, not all models use the same parts nor the same costs but to buy something at $2300+ and get a substituted ("99 cents" keyboard) that you can't use is just unbelievable. The 2 most important parts in a notebook, for me at least, are the screen and the keyboard. I felt cheated somehow. My analogy would be like buying a Porsche with cheap and uncomfortable seats. You know you've got a Porsche but it's still a pain in the a$$ when ever you drive the thing.

My newly revised notebook keyboard quality rating:
Lowest (IBM(Chinese made models)<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<Compaq<<<<<<<Sony<<Dell (old high quality Japanese made)<<Toshiba). Highest.

Please feel free to post any questions or share your experiences.

[Kenn]

You're probably not going to get too much positive feedback here, but I agree that the flexview screen doesn't generate the same awe as the Xbrite, its main benefit really is "flexview," being able to see the whole 15" without too much loss of contrast at the edges. I also noticed that the screen is heavier than the base. Neither of these are real problems for me though.

What exactly is the difference between the Thai and the Chinese keyboard? Loose vs tight feel? Bad fit in the chassis?

My battery is also a bit wobbly. I like the fact that IBM is very willing to support their products, I might call them up and see about the Sony battery...

[Hangfire]

Very good review!

I'm just keeping my fingers crossed hoping for the good keyboard, battery, and no more dead pix. I'm waiting a month for a laptop that I've already paid for.

[bluedoc]

Thank you for the feedback but I didn't post the review to be popular. I just wanted other potential customers to have all the info before plunging down their hard earned money. To me IBM is still one of those few reputable sellers of notebooks with an exceptional customer service. Hopefully, in a few days I will share more if they are will back up their name with quality also. The notebook I have purchased is an express model (affordable models)

Also, the details I have mentioned are not new issues except maybe for the dismal quality of the keyboard. Even the keyboard issue is not new (see below link) - just cropping up since more people are starting to receive their notebooks or IBM is just starting to use new cheaper parts by different distributors. Perfect time to get feedback from customers wouldn't you think. I be honest, when I read of one customer"s DXU still has the good keyboard I was ecstatic and hoped that mine would be the same. Not.


http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... i+keyboard

[plucky duck]

What about ghosting on the 15" Flexview. 60ns seems like very high to me and one of the reasons why I shy'ed away from the T42.

The keyboard on the X31 feels very solid. No dips or bends anywhere from what I can tell. As for the feel of the keyboard, that's subjective. IBM can't please all the people all the time. Can you blame them for going with a China manufacturer for the keyboard? It makes business sense to acquire different sources for their parts.

If IBM gave us the option to choose between 15" flex or non-flex screen, that would make people's decision easier.

[bluedoc]

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... d+thailand

[Guest]

Now I am glad that I got the 15" because it's not much bigger and the 14" models just have too many manufacturing problems. But I can only imagine how nice it would be to hold the svelt body of the 14" model (laptop that is).

IBM [/quote]

What manufacturing problems does the 14'' have? Have I missed something in the past month I have been on.

[HKILP7M8]

My keyboard is perfect, it feels as good as my older T21 and T30, with the exception of some shadowing effect, I'm totally satisfied with my purchase. I'm sorry to hear that you or anybody else for that matter is having problems.

[spirifer]

I agree with you,
my T41 "made in China" :
256 Hynix (VS Infineon, Crucial....)
and the keyboard with the right side flexes down when I press the Enter key.
I have also the fan problems, AC/DC noise.......

[Nabeel]

They ordered the "Made in US" keyboard for me since they didn't have any of the Thai keyboards..I asked if I could get it tomorrow since I'm going to Denver for all of next week...but I'll let ya'll know how the US one is...I also have the made in China one, fixed with wonderful strips of plastic haha..

[bluedoc]

How you you like your 14" other than the keyboard situation? Any flexing in the palmrest or other areas. Do let me know how it goes with your new "US made"keyboard fix.

Does yours have the loud beeping while the computer is turning on or off? Not part of the sound settings.

[awolfe63]

Hynix is the merger of Hyundai Semiconductor and LG Semiconductor. I believe that they are still the worlds largest DRAM manufacturer. Definitely not 2nd tier.

[Notnac]

bluedoc, thanks for the thorough review of your new T42. Received my new T42 2379-DXU (ordered directly from IBM) yesterday and have noticed some of the same problems/issues you mention.

While my screen is ok, I also have "shadows" on the right side. The right side of my screen is "warmer" looking than the left side; some have described this as appearing "dirty". My reference point - I had a 15" Sony Vaio late 1991 vintage, 1.3 MHz Tualatin core, and the screen was beautiful, perfect. I'm sure the thief, or whoever finally wound up with it is enjoying it.

I see the slight palm rest flex that you describe, but didn't notice it before you mentioned it.

I must have lucked out and gotten the good keyboard. Keys feel firm and solid with no percieved flex and are not noisy; I have not removed the keyboard to check the model number. Only comment is when I press the wide Enter key on the left end of the key, it is very noisy, clackity; otherwise when pressed on the right end of the key, its similar to every other key.

My Sanyo battery is definitely very loose. Called IBM Hardware Support and after a few minutes discussion, they finally found they had some of the Sony batterries in stock, one of which is now on its way to my house. I also have a High Capacity Sanyo battery 08K8197 and it fits perfectly with no play whatsoever; bought it recently on Ebay anticipating my new T42. It was NIB sealed and made on 6/15/03.

Generally I am pleased with my new T42. The next few days I'll pay carefull attention to the screen and other issues and determine if its a keeper.

[Kenn]

Notnac,

I just got another 15" in, and though it has the same China keyboard, it is NOTICEABLY firmer and quieter. The back of the keyboard panel looks no different than the loose/clacky version though, so I believe there is definitely some play in the tolerances going on over there. The new keyboard's right side is dead solid, no flex - but it does flex a little in the middle where the noisy china keyboard doesn't. IBM is sending me a Thai keyboard, I'll be able to compare early next week.

[Conmee]

Folks,

Can you reference this thread in regard to the shadow/dirty/etc effect on the right-side of the Flexview screens. Just want a few more people as reference points for what I may or may not be seeing...

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=1582

Daniel.

[K. Eng]

Bummer that there seems to be inconsistencies in quality even between machines of the same type and model #.

IBM needs to address this - machines should be of uniform excellent quality.

[Notnac]

Daniel,
I tried various settings in the bios (Config/Video) as you suggested and could not be sure of any difference; very subtle if any.

Kenn,
I read your other post about part numbers. Went ahead and removed by keyboard to see which one I had and the numbers match yours I believe: 93P4810 and FRU 93P4840, Model JN-US and "Assembled in China".
Check this out: http://www-1.ibm.com/support/docview.ws ... MIGR-46503

After re-reading some of the posts about keyboard problems, I carefully observed my keyboard with a bright light while typing with it and could see some flex. I did not see this before, maybe because I could not feel it, and for the most part the keys feel solid. I mentioned some noise in one of the keys; actually both Shift keys especially the right one are noisy. (I reported earlier that my Enter key was noisy; it was the Shift key) So, while I'm still basically ok with my keyboard, after reading all the negative posts and now looking more closely at mine, I'm starting to wonder if I should press IBM to send me a new part?

[Kenn]

I tried a couple of typing tests between the looser and stiffer 93p4840s, and I'm actually a little faster with the looser keyboard. I'm awaiting the 08k5044 and will report back if it works in the 15" and how it feels.

[bluedoc]

Only the Sony battery came today. While the fit with the Sony brand battery is still a little bit lose but much much better than the Sanyo's slip-slop. Thank you IBM. Now where is my "US made" keyboard as promised?

Let me just clear the air a little bit, I don't have any problems with IBM outsourcing parts to China or anywhere else, as many major corporations are doing, just one of many ways to make shareholders happy. What I have a problem with is the lack of consistency in quality and workmanship.

Another look at the inerts of my laptop and I realized what globalization
meant - ABS plastic palmrest cover by Misubishi Japan (shaving the plastic quite thin there), RAM from Korea, IBM US designs and distribution, touchpad by Hongkong, Intel chip, communication chips by Taiwan, keyboard, knicknacks, and assembly done in China - just to name a few. Wow.

After another hour plus with the tech support they have no ideas what going on with my keyboard order. There's plenty of supply in the computer, the order went through to the warehouse, the warehouse just has "no status" on the item. And warehouse is not working on the weekend so either Monday or Tuesday or whenever they get a nod from the big Guy on top then I will send out keyboard. Anyway.

Can someone tell me if they got a new keyboard installed yet? I don't see how you can do it without installing the whole panel of palmrest and touchpad. It's doesn't look like an easy job - no pop up like the T41 or earlier models. Can someone enlighten us in this matter?

Nicnac,

What is the significance of the following page?

http://www-1.ibm.com/support/docview.ws ... MIGR-46503

English, U.S. 08K5044 93P4780 93P4840 T2 , so they put the good keyboard (from Thailand) only in the 14" models?

Yes, my keyboards are noiser than usual in the Enter, Caplock, Shift, Control, Tab keys. If you have a better model than just keep unless your frustration tolerance is high.

As the keys are not only noisier they are also very bouncy and resistive. Certainly this condition will make it harder to type fast or slow.

The adventure continues....

[Kenn]

I've taken a few out and swapped them within the last couple of days. It's just the keyboard and the top set of buttons above the touchpad in a single panel and a single electrical connector; very quick, easy, and plug-and-play.

Note that the keyboard doesn't just "pop up" as easily as the IBM videos show - you have to get your fingernails below the bottom bezel (below the arrow keys and left ctrl/alt keys) and push it up and out.

[Notnac]

bluedoc,

The page you asked about: Kenn had asked/talked about keyboard part and replacement part numbers in a post on another topic and that page seemed to be helpful; it was to me.

I'll be very interested to learn about your new keyboard when you get it installed. To see which keyboard part I had, I removed mine with no problems or damage. This seems to be the latest info on T42 keyboard removal.
http://www-1.ibm.com/support/docview.ws ... us&lang=en

However, mine had only 3 screws, not 4 as described.

[JaimitoBond]

Another look at the inerts of my laptop and I realized what globalization
meant - ABS plastic palmrest cover by Misubishi Japan (shaving the plastic quite thin there), RAM from Korea, IBM US designs and distribution, touchpad by Hongkong, Intel chip, communication chips by Taiwan, keyboard, knicknacks, and assembly done in China - just to name a few. Wow.

Globalization...the way of the future

Sorry to hear the disappointment. At least IBM doesn't outsource their tech support to somewhere that don't speak English, like Dell has been doing.

I don't have problems with my KB, it's a 14" model. I think the KB is made/assembled in China. I think it really comes down to quality control and design, and not the country of origin. Ever wonder what happens to those parts or laptops that so many people here have returned to IBM? I wouldn't be surprised if your KB is from some guy's on this forum who returned it last month!

As for made in Thailand thing, are you sure it is Thailand? The link you provided above to another thread mentioned Taiwan, which is quite a different country from Thailand.

At least it sounds like IBM is handling your issue responsibly, and ultimately you should get what you paid for. I'm a very satisfied customer, so I can say that it is possible to get a great ThinkPad. It might take some FRUs to fix your problem, but at least it can be done without any cost to you.

[edelrc]

JaimitoBond said it well "I think it really comes down to quality control and design, and not the country of origin..."

The same applies with the Support service. As a Call Center specialist I can say is that everything comes down to trainning.

The reason we get the illusion that US tech support is better is because many companies that do outsource, they do it with the aim to save in of both labour costs AND also training and QC cost. Saving in labour cost alone or that chinese, bangladeshi or else are designing or assembling does not matter per se.

[bluedoc]

Thank you Kenn for the tip on opening the keyboard. I fiddled around a bit and voila open sesame. No popup like the IBM video but certainly easier than taking the whole palmrest panel off. The key is the area right under the 4 directional keys. I am not recommending the following to every user but if possible check out what IBM managed to squeeze it under the hood - it is breath-takingly beautiful. So many parts and so little space.

Kenn how were you able to order the Thai keyboard? They said it wasn't available? Hmmm. I just want a keyboard that will be better than my current one and don't want to take any chances. They offer the a "US made" replacement since many are available in the warehouse.

No one is saying that a keyboard or anything should be made in any particular place. That said it would also be very self-delusion to say that it doesn't matter where products are made. Certain countries do have competitive advantage for certain things.

In response to your reply, I am not sure how many vendors IBM has for keyboards, so far we heard that the good ones are from Taiwan and Thailand. Yes, Thailand is quite different from Taiwan. Others have the "assembled in China" keyboard that tend to be clacky, noisy, and harder to type (more pressure needed) - myself included and it elicits quite strong reactions from me every time I try to use it. Quality in this particular model is not as consistent. Yes, more quality check for the more important parts - screen, keyboard, case but don't save the pennies on shoddy cheap parts either.

Speaking about used parts. I wouldn't be surprised about unscrupulous venders reinstalling "factory refreshed" parts. It is illegal by US laws to sale and install used parts as new. Mine TP was sent directly from China...hmm.

Something quite curious, the back my keyboard has 3 times much more fingerprint smudges on the aluminium back than seen with Kenn's kb picture on Mindpring website. Maybe the factory installer had a hard time adjusting the piece or too fond to let it go. Or too many people had a try at it, don't really know.

My suggestions for the T50 or the "DreamPad"
1. Keyboard. 2 necessary things that will really attract customers - a beautiful screen and a good keyboard. I think I've said enough about this issue. A few dollars extra for your wonderful previous keyboard will certainly let you keep your edge and reputation. If you check the net other vendors are also suffering in sales and support nightmares because of "springy/flexing/bouncy" keyboards do take another lane.
2. Flexview is reasonably good (so far) but get rid of the shadow on the bottom right and increase the refresh rate to rid the Ghosting effects. The screen ribbon doesn't look very reliable with repeated use. 15" SXGA is just perfect for the price and resolution. Can't only imagine how good the UXGA could be at the current premium. Forget widescreens I don't even know whether I can use my 15" in the plane's economy section. You can do any screen sizes in the other non-business models.
3. See if you can use magnesium-alloy panel or carbon fiber for the palmrest area - ABS plastic is just too flimsy. You got the top screen panel and the bottom panel all already in magnesium alloy it should not be too expensive to bid for another piece by the same vendor.
4. Perfect size? Well, anyone can profit with a few more onces off but you wouldn't want to be a skinny weakling.
5. Battery slot. Currently, it is quite convenient to change battery, but even with the better-fit Sony battery it is still lose from the slot (some rattlings when use on the lap). Either add foam pads or include another hook on the far left.
6. We customers just can't get enough juice nowaday. 4700 wh is too low for a 15" at max brightness - go for 6000wh or more. Ask Dell how they managed this issue. This last suggestion might cut in your lucrative additional "extra long" battery business but the customers will be very thankful and the additional loyalty will be worth it for repeat sales.
7. 3 USB2 slots. Good job with wifi/bluetooth/giga ethernet implementations.
8. Keep the kids hook when they are young. J/K. Good job with the educational/non-profit/employees/share-holders discounts. We are grateful.
9. Colors. Gimmicky but some people like choices and are willing to pay.
10. 60 gb HD -> 54 gb formated -> 45.7gb user useable. Hmm. 80 gb to start off anyone? Also, is it too much to include the recover cds? We don't have that much faith in your disk protection program.
11. Please make the DVD-RW slim unit more affordable ($375 preminum?), I am certain that you can move more units in additional sales with some kind of discounts.

Anyone else would like to offer more suggestions.

[bluedoc]

Thank you Kenn for the tip on opening the keyboard. I fiddled around a bit and voila open sesame. No popup like the IBM video but certainly easier than taking the whole palmrest panel off. The key is the area right under the 4 directional keys. I am not recommending the following to every user but if possible check out what IBM managed to squeeze it under the hood - it is breath-takingly beautiful. So many parts and so little space.

Kenn how were you able to order the Thai keyboard? They said it wasn't available? Hmmm. I just want a keyboard that will be better than my current one and don't want to take any chances. They offer the a "US made" replacement since many are available in the warehouse.

No one is saying that a keyboard or anything should be made in any particular place. That said it would also be very self-delusion to say that it doesn't matter where products are made. Certain countries do have competitive advantage for certain things.

In response to your reply, I am not sure how many vendors IBM has for keyboards, so far we heard that the good ones are from Taiwan and Thailand. Yes, Thailand is quite different from Taiwan. Others have the "assembled in China" keyboard that tend to be clacky, noisy, and harder to type (more pressure needed) - myself included and it elicits quite strong reactions from me every time I try to use it. Quality in this particular model is not as consistent. Yes, more quality check for the more important parts - screen, keyboard, case but don't save the pennies on shoddy cheap parts either.

Speaking about used parts. I wouldn't be surprised about unscrupulous venders reinstalling "factory refreshed" parts. It is illegal by US laws to sale and install used parts as new. Mine TP was sent directly from China...hmm.

Something quite curious, the back my keyboard has 3 times much more fingerprint smudges on the aluminium back than seen with Kenn's kb picture on Mindpring website. Maybe the factory installer had a hard time adjusting the piece or too fond to let it go. Or too many people had a try at it, don't really know.

My suggestions for the T50 or the "DreamPad"
1. Keyboard. 2 necessary things that will really attract customers - a beautiful screen and a good keyboard. I think I've said enough about this issue. A few dollars extra for your wonderful previous keyboard will certainly let you keep your edge and reputation. If you check the net other vendors are also suffering in sales and support nightmares because of "springy/flexing/bouncy" keyboards do take another lane.
2. Flexview is reasonably good (so far) but get rid of the shadow on the bottom right and increase the refresh rate to rid the Ghosting effects. The screen ribbon doesn't look very reliable with repeated use. 15" SXGA is just perfect for the price and resolution. Can't only imagine how good the UXGA could be at the current premium. Forget widescreens I don't even know whether I can use my 15" in the plane's economy section. You can do any screen sizes in the other non-business models.
3. See if you can use magnesium-alloy panel or carbon fiber for the palmrest area - ABS plastic is just too flimsy. You got the top screen panel and the bottom panel all already in magnesium alloy it should not be too expensive to bid for another piece by the same vendor.
4. Perfect size? Well, anyone can profit with a few more onces off but you wouldn't want to be a skinny weakling.
5. Battery slot. Currently, it is quite convenient to change battery, but even with the better-fit Sony battery it is still lose from the slot (some rattlings when use on the lap). Either add foam pads or include another hook on the far left.
6. We customers just can't get enough juice nowaday. 4700 wh is too low for a 15" at max brightness - go for 6000wh or more. Ask Dell how they managed this issue. This last suggestion might cut in your lucrative additional "extra long" battery business but the customers will be very thankful and the additional loyalty will be worth it for repeat sales.
7. 3 USB2 slots. Good job with wifi/bluetooth/giga ethernet implementations.
8. Keep the kids hook when they are young. J/K. Good job with the educational/non-profit/employees/share-holders discounts. We are grateful.
9. Colors. Gimmicky but some people like choices and are willing to pay.
10. 60 gb HD -> 54 gb formated -> 45.7gb user useable. Hmm. 80 gb to start off anyone? Also, is it too much to include the recover cds? We don't have that much faith in your disk protection program.
11. Please make the DVD-RW slim unit more affordable ($375 preminum?), I am certain that you can move more units in additional sales with some kind of discounts.

Anyone else would like to offer more suggestions.

[bluedoc]

"It might take some FRUs to fix your problem, but at least it can be done without any cost to you."

There are many other hidden costs you didn't include in your assessment. I think it has cost over $100 so far for the problems associated with the lose battery and clacky keyboard. Let me try to itemize them:
1. 2-hour plus on the phone with tech support when I can just spend it somewhere else.
2. Wait time for the mail at home when the battery and keyboard supposed to come but only 1 came (could of email me for the problems in shipment). Opportunity cost.
3. An hour of fiddling around and opening up the panel (much loofing on the job here)
4. Time and opportunity lost. At the earliest the keyboard replacement will be shipped out on Monday or Tuesday - that will be close to a week with out me being able to use my computer to transfer files over and work on my current projects (delay is due to the uncertainty of whether I will be able to fix the keyboard or have to return the computer).
5. Depreciation.

All of these costs are just my estimates and I am sure it is costing IBM a few dollars too. My argument is that this situation is avoidable if they are unwilling to compromise quality for lower production costs.

Abeit, most of these costs are unanticipated and unrecoverable costs (sunk costs) but the costs of ownership of a Thinkpad has been increased for me and rising.

While I appreciate it that IBM is willing to help me to remedy the existing problem so that it is a win-win situation for both of us (do keep this in mind if you ever try to decide which vendors to buy your notebook from), but it is hardly costless.

New updates. Just got off the phone with another support tech and the new keyboard will be at my home on Tuesday. It is an international US English keyboard model for the T42 15" replacement with the FRU # 93P4783 as indicated on the IBM chart referenced by Notnac earlier. No other information as to quality, feel and country of origin of this keyboard. If someone knows something about this particular model I would appreciate the headup. According to the tech the FRU 08K5044 Thai-made keyboard is only for the 14" replacement. Don't know if they are interchangeable. Will keep my friends on the forum up to date as soon I am able to install and test out the new one. Cheers fellow PAD-o-philes.

[Notnac]

Recieved my Sony replacement battery today, FRU # 92P1011 and it is a much better fit. Very snug with practically no movement at all. Can I move the battery a little bit with my hand? Yes, but not significantly. It can be moved a very tiny bit only at the left end (with the top of the T42 face down). The travel distance of the Sanyo unit when moved by hand was definitely measureable and the entire battery moved slightly. I'm satisfied.

The problem with these units appears to be in the latching system. The T40 series originally had two (2) battery latches. For whatever reason, probably the need to capture space for other internal hardware parts, the T42 has only one latch.

[Conmee]

I tried a couple of typing tests between the looser and stiffer 93p4840s, and I'm actually a little faster with the looser keyboard. I'm awaiting the 08k5044 and will report back if it works in the 15" and how it feels.

Kenn,

I just tried swapping the 14" adn 15" keyboards and they aren't interchangeable, unless I just did it too hastily. I couldn't get the screw posts to align when the 08K5044 was on the 15" or the 93P4780 (alternate 15" keyboard) was on the 14".

Daniel.