Thinkpad Fan Noise Problem: Light at the End of the Tunnel

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mg · #121 Post by mg » Wed Nov 30, 2005 7:30 am

Fantastic! Now I can listen to sky.fm with less than half the volume level on a T43p (2668-H2x)! Maybe there should be a configuration option to boost the audio volume depending on the fan speed...

I've noticed that XC2 has the highest temperature (about 5°C above GPU) when charging a half empty battery.

ruthlessbrad · #122 Post by **ruthlessbrad** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 7:34 am

Jmmmmm wrote:Minimize to tray - awesome

I'm still getting errors with CHC, even with the temp readings turned off (both the hd and the cpu temp). Is there a special way of turning them off to get them both to work?

I had to restart my computer before the errors went away. Also, when the NHC window is open, I get those errors occasionally. When it is minimized to the system tray, I get no errors. If that doesn't work and you are using CHC, try upgrading to the latest version of NHC.

fran1451 · #123 Post by **fran1451** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 8:44 am

@Shimodax: Thank you very much for this really great tool! I am very happy with it.

For your information: I think that I have found a little bug in v0.14: The temperature levels on which the icon shall change its color seems not to be read correctly from the ini-file. I have taken a look at your code (misc.cpp):

if (strnicmp(buf, "iconlevels=", 10)==0) {
sscanf(buf+10, "%d %d %d", &this->IconLevels[0], &this->IconLevels[1], &this->IconLevels[2]);
}

It seems to be read incorrectly because the comparestring has a length of 11, not 10. I think that you want to correct this if you can confirm this bug.

Greets, Francesco

#124 Post by **Shimodax** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 8:56 am

@fran

of course you're right ... I'll fix it in the next release.

Markus

Thinkerer · #125 Post by **Thinkerer** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 9:39 am

mg wrote:Maybe there should be a configuration option to boost the audio volume depending on the fan speed...

To the contrary - there should be an option to change the thresholds according to ambient noise (as measured by the built-in microphone and analyzed by your favorite psychoacoustic model). In a noisy room, might as well keep things cool; in a library, let it heat up bit more.

vcbaby · #126 Post by **vcbaby** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 9:55 am

level 1->3260RPM, Is there a level that has a fan speed less than 3000RPM?

#127 Post by **Shimodax** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 10:03 am

Regarding NHC: It could be worth trying to set the cylce in TPFC to a different value. Maybe NHC also uses 5 seconds or a multiple of that.

Markus

#128 Post by **Shimodax** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 10:05 am

Thinkerer wrote: To the contrary - there should be an option to change the thresholds according to ambient noise (as measured by the built-in microphone and analyzed by your favorite psychoacoustic model). In a noisy room, might as well keep things cool; in a library, let it heat up bit more.

That may be a nice project in iself. You probably will need a sample of the fan noise to filter it out from the ambient noise or occasionally turn of the fan to listen to the noise (and also filter out audio playback from the TP).

Markus

gzt036 · #129 Post by **gzt036** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 12:08 pm

vcbaby wrote:level 1->3260RPM, Is there a level that has a fan speed less than 3000RPM?

It would be great if we can set fan at somelevel that we can't hear at all, is it possible?

vpn-user · #130 Post by **vpn-user** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 12:43 pm

@Shimodax,

while you are at it, could you make it so that "smart mode" takes over again from "BIOS controlled" when temperature below "BIOS mode" trigger-temperature is reached? So that the tool would auto-switch between modes.

I would like this setup:

- Smart mode
- Level 50 0
- Level 65 128

At the moment the fan problem persists, because your tool does not take over again when level1 is reached.

mg · #131 Post by mg » Wed Nov 30, 2005 1:20 pm

Shimodax wrote:You probably will need a sample of the fan noise to filter it out from the ambient noise [...]

This is done already on the T43/p. Run start->Contol Panel->SoundMAX, there click on Setup Wizard on the Microphone tab. Now switch between No Filtering (+ Apply) and Voice Recording (+ Apply) on the Microphone tab to see the disk and fan noise compensation.

akcpe · #132 Post by **akcpe** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 1:55 pm

Not to say that it cant be a risk, but the risk of frying a pentium m is quite low. It uses the same passive cooling methods used in the Pentium 4. Once it reaches a critical temperature it may act funny and run terribly slow, but it will not damage the cpu (necessarily).

Where an Athlon will fry almost instantly without a heatsink, Pentium (4) (M) will not due to passive cooling.

akcpe · #133 Post by **akcpe** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 2:07 pm

What are your normal rpm speeds? Mine dont vary much. And even at level 7 the fan doesnt spin as fast as i've heard it before.

Mine are:
Level 0 - off (duh!)
Level 3 - ~3900 rpm
Level 4 - ~3950 rpm
Level 7 - ~4500 to 4620 rpm

To be honest this really seems like a useless (trivial might be a better word) range.

I'm also the one having the temperature hit 80C and higher when running a 3d application (such as a game).

vpn-user · #134 Post by **vpn-user** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 2:11 pm

akcpe wrote:I'm also the one having the temperature hit 80C and higher when running a 3d application (such as a game).

That is absolutely no problem. The Pentium M is certified up to 100°C. Don' t know about the GPU, though.

gzt036 · #135 Post by **gzt036** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 3:06 pm

mg wrote:Fantastic! Now I can listen to sky.fm with less than half the volume level on a T43p (2668-H2x)! Maybe there should be a configuration option to boost the audio volume depending on the fan speed...
I've noticed that XC2 has the highest temperature (about 5°C above GPU) when charging a half empty battery.

On my system xc1 is the highest now, second is the GPU, any way to control/reduce the heat generated on these units? Thanks.

akcpe · #136 Post by **akcpe** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 3:06 pm

Although i'm aware that its certified at 100C, my AthlonXP is certified at 85C... That doesnt mean i run it anywhere near that. It usually runs about 33-45C... About half the critical temperature. 87C is getting awfully close to 100C, and even closer to the passive cooling temp of 90C.

Jmmmmm · #137 Post by **Jmmmmm** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 3:48 pm

Don't be stupid. If you are gaming, just deal with the fan being on. Change what the fan is on at the lower (~idling) levels, but the fan should be on high if it's over 65 or whatever.

christopher_wolf · #138 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 4:52 pm

Yeah, don't be stupid. DO NOT run it at, or near, 100 Degrees without the Fan on for prolonged periods of time. If you look at NHC, you will see that it has a critical temperature for the CPU in that Range. See, this is what I was worried about...Some people are just going to shut the fan off completely then crank up the usage.

gzt036 · #139 Post by **gzt036** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 5:34 pm

akcpe wrote:Although i'm aware that its certified at 100C, my AthlonXP is certified at 85C... That doesnt mean i run it anywhere near that. It usually runs about 33-45C... About half the critical temperature. 87C is getting awfully close to 100C, and even closer to the passive cooling temp of 90C.

33-45C? that's impossible on my T43 2.0G. I'm at best running around 50 with fan speed 1. There is no way the temp. stops climbing with fan off. Is 50C safe enough for all the sensors (except. batte. hd.)?

BTW, how is T42 performs? anyone read your t42 temps under normal use? I do have strong mixed feeling about T43p, it is such a terrific but HOT machine!

Aristotle11 · #140 Post by **Aristotle11** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 6:19 pm

I got 33-45C all day today with no fan on my T42.

philip · #141 Post by **philip** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 6:34 pm

First of all, I would like to thank Shimodax for this GREAT program.

akcpe wrote:Where an Athlon will fry almost instantly without a heatsink, Pentium (4) (M) will not due to passive cooling.

I am sorry but I will have to disagree. The New Athlon 64 does not fry easily, and with the cool ‘n’ quiet feature runs very cool. Cooler than the P4. And for the statement saying that you cannot fry a P4... hmmm... Just to lighten up the mood, here is a clip about a Pentium 4 that I am sure you will all enjoy !!!

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... verspeedin[/url]

It is the funniest thing I have ever seen!!!!

Philip

Navck · #142 Post by **Navck** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 7:27 pm

That video is rigged, they did an Athlon XP version too (Firecracker, notice smoke from under table...)
All modern processors = Cannot fry. Period (From heat. It has a thermal shutdown thing. I recall the Pentium Ms have one with Athlon 64s
(Athlon 64, Pentium 4, "Turion", Pentium M, Pentium 3, some Athlon XPs + Specific motherboard supporting that capablity, and their Celeron/Sempron or as I call them "L2 Neutured" counterparts. And some I don't remember)

akcpe · #143 Post by **akcpe** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 8:06 pm

For clarification, i meant my AthlonXP (desktop) runs about 33-45C depending on load. and when i mentioned 87C on my thinkpad while gaming THAT IS AT FAN LEVEL 7. And i am not overclocking anything, i'm actually undervolted as well.

Sorry if you guys thought i meant i was running it up to 87C with no fan, im not quite that dumb.

FYI the critical temperature on Athlon64 (90nm core) is 65C

sweethookup · #144 Post by **sweethookup** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 10:23 pm

im planning on buying a t43... are there significant problems with the cooling that i should be worried about?

Trip · #145 Post by **Trip** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 11:05 pm

Rather hot components shoved into an incredibly tiny space is a bad combination, especially when it has poor cooling and silly sensors. So, yes, it has problems with the cooling.

Significant? Not if you don't plan on having children. Now that there's a way to manage fan noise, that aspect is less of a factor, I think.

christopher_wolf · #146 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 12:16 am

It should be obvious if one is to take a *clear headed* look at a T43 that it is the same chassis as a T42, T41, and T40; if there is a cooling problem with the T43...it effects all stated models to some extent. Some T42s have had fan problems as well; it isn't as if the Fan on the T43 is much noisier over that of the T42. Some people have different preferences for the Fan. The heat isn't a problem, and I can say this having used a T43 for 2 hours straight on my lap several times a week, I don't even break a sweat; same with the T42. I have never felt my T43 getting too hot at all. Period. You get a slight increase due to the performance gain over other T Series Models.

The fan noise issue has, at least, a good solution, and heat is not an issue from what I have used. Those same "Silly Sensors" are in the T42 as well, all the way to the HDD Accelerometers.

What matters is if the laptop is right for you; regardless of whether it is a T43/T42/T41/T40/R Series...

mg · #147 Post by mg » Thu Dec 01, 2005 5:49 am

christopher_wolf wrote:I have never felt my T43 getting too hot at all.

Maybe not all T43 are the same. If I'm encoding a video on a T43p using the Maximum Performance profile (no voltage modifications, etc.), the CPU temperature exceeds 85 °C several times. So it depends on how one is using it. I think you are generalizing too much.
(I'm not complaining about the heat as such; it is the fan noise when it's not hot.)

Lostoutlaw · #148 Post by **Lostoutlaw** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 6:19 am

Just tried the software and it works as mentioned.

You guys are incredible. Kudos to Shimodax everyone else involved in this whole process.

kw · #149 Post by kw » Thu Dec 01, 2005 7:12 am

@shimodax: to my post above: your fantool works very fine with the IBM Energy-Manager and it's a good combination. Basically with profiles created by your own you can keep the cpu smart cool and it won't heat up very much. Setting the fan-level to "1" on low temperatures (beneath 50°C) you have a continuous thermal environment with your laptop. The HD-Drive will be louder.

#150 Post by **Shimodax** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 7:45 am

Thanks to all for the nice feedback. It really make it worth that I've made the extra effort of sharing this tool.

Markus

Thinkpad Fan Noise Problem: Light at the End of the Tunnel

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