Thinkpad Fan Noise Problem: Light at the End of the Tunnel

Message

christopher_wolf · #331 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 8:43 pm

Change the RPM of the Fan? I think you will have to go with the presets as those are defined in the EC and that is the easiest way to control the Fan RPM; I don't know if you can access other RPMs that aren't supported by either the EC or by the Fan.

kingdaveone · #332 Post by **kingdaveone** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 8:08 am

Hello i m french so sorry for my bad english.
First, thanks for this very good software.
It works on my T40p 2373 G1G.
But my GPU is always very hot with standart configuration just websurfing in wifi and at 600mhz.
Here it s my configuration :

Smart

[11/01/2006 13:11:04] Current Config:
[11/01/2006 13:11:04] Active= 1, Cycle= 5, FanBeep= 1200 30, MaxReadErrors= 10
[11/01/2006 13:11:04] IconLevels= 50 55 60, IgnoreSensors= XXX,YYY,ZZZ
[11/01/2006 13:11:04] Levels= 48°C -> 0, 51°C -> 3, 55°C -> 4, 60°C -> 7, 65°C -> 0x80

[11/01/2006 13:43:38] Fan: 0x80 / Highest: 48°C (45 42 30 48 33 n/a 31 n/a 0 0 0 0)
[11/01/2006 13:43:38] Smart: Set fan control to 0x00, Result: OK
[11/01/2006 13:56:41] Fan: 0x00 / Highest: 51°C (45 46 36 51 34 n/a 31 n/a 0 0 0 0)
[11/01/2006 13:56:41] Smart: Set fan control to 0x03, Result: OK

CPU 44°C (0x78)
APS 46°C (0x79)
PCM 36°C (0x7a)
GPU 50°C (0x7b)
BAT 34°C (0x7c)
BAT 31°C (0x7e)
BUS 0°C (0xc0)
PCI 0°C (0xc1)
PWR 0°C (0xc2)

any idea what to do ?

Thanks for help.

Kanu · #333 Post by **Kanu** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:17 pm

Hi everyone,

To follow up on kingdaveone, his observation might be quite correct. I found a report on a German site

http://www.homep.de/index.php?module=Co ... d=3&meid=2

where someone ran a test and found that the low fan threshold may be related to the fact that the Thinkpad only measures CPU, not GPU temperature, and therefore that the fan has to kick in early to avoid overheating the GPU. Sorry, I am no expert but that seemed to be the gist of it.

Now, I have tried everything on my new R50e (reduce CPU speed, reduce voltage) but the problem is that, at some point, the fan does need to run and then it is just too f***ing loud for me.

Does anyone know if it is possible to replace notebook fans with quieter models (perhaps running at lower RPMs)? It's my last hope. Truly!

Otherwise, I am considering picking up a quieter Toshiba. I am using one in the office, and even when I run it at 100% CPU load, it is very quiet. No noticeable increase in fan speed, only warm air gently pushing out the vents. Just like my X20 Thinkpad, bought about 5 years ago.

I really like the Thinkpad (keyboard, the trackpoint, everything) but this fan issue is turning me completely off it. I need quiet when I work and can't have a loud fan cycling on and off every five minutes. In fact, I can even feel it vibrate in my palm when it's on.

Sorry for the rant. If anyone has any other suggestions, I would love to hear them. Otherwise, buying this TP may have turned out to have been a very costly mistake.

Cheers!

C.

christopher_wolf · #334 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 6:30 pm

Well, reading through the Readme file provided with the Fan Control Utility, there is a way to get it to flat out ignore certain temperature sensor values; in this case, it would be the GPU as that seems to get the hottest.

There should be the following line in the fancontrol.ini file

IgnoreSensors=XXX,YYY,ZZZ

So, for example, to ignore the BAT sensor; you would input the three letter code for it e.g "IgnoreSensors=XC1,BAT" The same would go for the GPU.

As far as I know, changing the fan itself isn't a solution, much less a viable one, for this problem; it has been noted that the GPU does, indeed, run hot

See; http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Problem_with_fan_noise

And the following from the aforementioned ThinkWiki

I can confirm that on my R51, the graphics card seems to be the problem. The fan keeps running most of the time even with AC on, but even though I activated DynamicClocks (with the radeon driver), I can see in /proc/acpi/ibm/thermal that the GPU (4th value) is at 52-53°. The fan stops running as soon as the temperature gets down to 50 degrees and starts again at 53. While debugging, I seemed(!) to be able to reduce the temperature together with the resolution (e.g. "xrandr -s 2" to get from 1400x1050 to 1024x768) or by switching off the graphics with "xset dpms force off". The bottom line is that the below "partial fix" won't work because the GPU temperature is the problem.

Plus, you can always shut the fan off and throttle down. HTH

kingdaveone · #335 Post by **kingdaveone** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 6:33 pm

Hi thanks for the answer so i ll try to ignore the gpu.
But so you have any idea what is the hottest temperature for the gpu before it s dangerous ?

thanks

christopher_wolf · #336 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 6:40 pm

You mean a Critical Temperature for the GPU to watch out for? I wouldn't know of it off the top of my head; but 99-100 Degrees should be the Critical Shutoff threshold for the CPU, and assuming the GPU is nearly the same physical size as the CPU...I would say in the 90s as well.

ATI might have some more info on that in the tech specs for that GPU.

Xian · #337 Post by **Xian** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 12:24 am

If anyone is interested in the fan beep modified version of v0.18, I have put a copy on my site at:

http://www.righteousbender.com/content/fancontrol.exe

It is just the executable, the remaining files inside the folder must remain there, and make sure to backup the original fancontrol.exe before replacing it.

I haven't had too much opportunity lately to test it, but I haven't had any unexpected beeps since I recompiled it with modified constructor values. Just thought I would share for anyone that doesn't care to recompile it

If enough people have the rogue beeps perhaps v19 can have the default values for the beep be 0 0.

BeaverBoy · #338 Post by **BeaverBoy** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 11:21 pm

I have been looking for just this kind of program. Unfortunately, it doesn't work on my TP-A22e. The software reported that it couldn't read the sensors, but at least nothing crashed/rebooted. It is a small victory.

I'll keep trying...

A22e, 2655-27u.

Axel · #339 Post by **Axel** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 8:01 am

Hi folks.
I just wanna inform the forum and the author that the tool is running very well with a R50p.

Maybe this info could be added to the readme.

Regards,
Axel

emaijala · #340 Post by **emaijala** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 9:25 am

Hi,

I've modified tpfancontrol a bit and made it run as a service. I've been running hassle-free for a good few weeks now. Anyone interested in this version?

--Ere

ctgilles · #341 Post by **ctgilles** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:49 pm

emaijala wrote:Hi,

I've modified tpfancontrol a bit and made it run as a service. I've been running hassle-free for a good few weeks now. Anyone interested in this version?

--Ere

Yes please, always nice to automate things!

simms · #342 Post by **simms** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:29 pm

emaijala wrote:Hi,

I've modified tpfancontrol a bit and made it run as a service. I've been running hassle-free for a good few weeks now. Anyone interested in this version?

--Ere

Yes please! Post it up!

christopher_wolf · #343 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:41 pm

Very interesting...Can you post a link to the newer version?

amgdoc · #344 Post by **amgdoc** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 11:23 am

i'm testing this program on the x40 and just wanted to say it works wonderfully. no problems as of yet.

here is the numbers in battery optimized mode (i'm using default settings)

CPU 37°C (0x78)
APS 39°C (0x79)
PCM 43°C (0x7a)
GPU 35°C (0x7b)
BAT 32°C (0x7c)
BAT 31°C (0x7e)
BUS 0°C (0xc0)
PCI 0°C (0xc1)
PWR 0°C (0xc2)

tincbtrar · #345 Post by **tincbtrar** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 5:21 pm

Hey guys.

Made a thread with my settings and some insight on the Fan Utility (which is tops BTW). Hope it helps a bit.

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... highlight=

GpsPasSion · #346 Post by **GpsPasSion** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 7:29 pm

Great proggie ! Any chance we can get that "service" version ?
Also is there an undervolting program that plays nice with Fan Control ? NHC seems to be interfering with it with 'Warning: Can't read Status (possible conflict with other software)" messages ?

tincbtrar · #347 Post by **tincbtrar** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:33 pm

@GpsPassion.

RMClock works very well with FC. Look at my previous thread and you will see my settings for both utilities. However, keep in mind that our systems and expectations differ. To be honest I like RMClock better than NHC.

Brian.

GpsPasSion · #348 Post by **GpsPasSion** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 4:00 am

Thanks, trying RMCPUclock now.
On my X31 NHC only seems to work for voltage adjustments anyway so it's not a big loss, nice to have automatic scaling too. One thing I'm seeing in RM is that my CPULoad is pretty much always at 25%.

JHaislet · #349 Post by **JHaislet** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 6:49 am

Now if only I could find a viable way to quiet the fan in my Dock II...It's actually always been louder than the T43!

ams999 · #350 Post by **ams999** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 10:26 am

Hello,

up to now I've always started this little gem of a program with administrative rights but I just wanted to let you know that I may have found yet another way to start WinIO automatically, so that FanControl does not complain when started as a normal shortcut in the user autostart folder.

What I just stumbled upon ist this:

In the device manager (as an administrator again) click "view" - "show hidden devices". Then scroll to "Non PnP device drivers" (I'm using an approximation from my German XP, so it may be called slightly differently). There one can find "WinIO" and set it to "automatic".

Works well so far...

If only I could run RMClock automatically

I know that I could run it as "runas /savecred" but don't want to do that.

Hope this solution hasn't been posted before; at least I didn't see it

Cheers, AMS

seung · #351 Post by **seung** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 12:42 am

The program works great for my T43. Thanks.

I've noticed that there was a beep whenever the fan kicked in and off.
Could anyone let me know how I can turn off the beep?

simms · #352 Post by **simms** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 3:22 am

ams999 wrote:Hello,

up to now I've always started this little gem of a program with administrative rights but I just wanted to let you know that I may have found yet another way to start WinIO automatically, so that FanControl does not complain when started as a normal shortcut in the user autostart folder.

What I just stumbled upon ist this:

In the device manager (as an administrator again) click "view" - "show hidden devices". Then scroll to "Non PnP device drivers" (I'm using an approximation from my German XP, so it may be called slightly differently). There one can find "WinIO" and set it to "automatic".

Works well so far...

If only I could run RMClock automatically I know that I could run it as "runas /savecred" but don't want to do that.

Hope this solution hasn't been posted before; at least I didn't see it

Cheers, AMS

Well, the directions are precise. When I was doing this, I noticed an exclaimation beside the non PNP driver "smi2". Is this normal?

I will post results after I restart the system.

fritz_the_blank · #353 Post by **fritz_the_blank** » Sun Jan 22, 2006 2:15 pm

I am using this with the T42 2378EVU and all seems well. All seven speeds work fine and I was able to disengage the beep in the .ini files. The sensor readings match those from mobimeter.

Does anybody have thoughts on what a safe operating tempature is? Currently, I have a tempauture of 51 degrees Centigrade with fan fixed at 2. However, when I did a full system scan with NAV last night, the tempature rose to 70 degrees with the fan on full.

Thanks for creating this program; I am very happy to use it when I need some peace and quiet!

FtB

dave92270 · #354 Post by **dave92270** » Sun Jan 22, 2006 9:23 pm

Hi guys,

I tested the fancontrol on my new R52 (1849-4WU), and it appears to work well, no errors during the actual program run, but fancontrol occasionally generates windows error (without crashing anything else)when exiting it. I tested all manual speeds (0-7) and they all run fine; didn't try smart mode yet but I will later.

After short test, the temperature of CPU seem to be around 52-53C with idling computer and fan at rotation 2, GPU 47-48C. However, when I turn the fan off, the CPU and GPU temps start to rise; I didn't try to to see how far they'd go with fan off yet... first need to find out what the acceptable temperatures would be so I could switch fan before permanent damage occurs. My room temperature is currently around 76F.

[1/22/2006 5:26:17 PM] Manual: Set fan control to 0x02, Result: OK
[1/22/2006 5:28:14 PM] Fan: 0x02 / Highest: 52°C (52 42 34 47 30 n/a 28 n/a 39 47 43 n/a)

I have the IBM Thinkpad PowerManager v 1.01 installed and when I start the laptop, the fancontrol (launched in passive mode) reports "fan state" running in non-bios mode (0x07 I believe); but when I close the lid and then reopen (so after standby), the fancontrol reports the desired BIOS mode (0x80) controlling the fan - that is when I actually launched the program in active mode. I didn't try to launch fancontrol when PowerManager (non-bios mode 0x07) is controlling the fan yet (in the fear of possible collision/crash between fancontrol and PowerManager).

This program is promising and I'll observe the temperature and rotation values for some time to see which fan speeds are sufficient. However, I'm finding anything above fan level 1 already quite loud... could someone advice what are safe normal temperatures for the CPU and GPU so I can set values accordingly? I will read the full thread too, it's been probably asked many times....

Anyway, thanks for the fancontrol utility! I wish IBM/Lenovo would address this though - there is no need for running fan in laptop when machine is idling... I like the R52, but the fan is major annoyance for those who work in quiet environment and prefer to hear nothing.

Dave

gxh79123 · #355 Post by **gxh79123** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 12:47 am

I have g question,when start my T43(2668-44U),The system will say some error about winio,can not load winio.sys in app dictionary.but winio.sys file stay at app dictionary.

Anyone meet this error? give me some advice.

namezk · #356 Post by **namezk** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 9:26 pm

I'd like to thank the gentleman who wrote the program, it works great!

after some research, trial and observation, I found out few things:

-the thermal ceiling for the Pentium M is 100C, it seems that IBM engineers were very conservative when they designed the BIOS to trigger the fan at high 40's mark.

-my laptop's fan has 3 speeds not 7, and they are 3000, 3600, and 4200.

-in normal conditions, it is the GPU that triggers the fan, the GPU is actually hotter than the CPU.

-to remedy the GPU temp issue, one can use the PowerPlay setting built in to the ATI driver, which under-clocks the GPU making it run cooler.

here are my settings:

Level=58 0
Level=60 1
Level=62 3
Level=64 6
Level=66 128

I 'm running like this for a couple of days now without issues, this way, the fan turns on seldom, the downside is that the bottom of the notebook gets fairly warm, which can be an issue if it's sitting on your lap for a while.

[/i]

GeorgeP · #357 Post by **GeorgeP** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 11:24 pm

Yes I agree, it is a great program!

However, just my opinion...I would ratchet those settings down a few degrees if I were you. You shouldn't consider the delta between the fan trigger point (high 40s) and the CPU operating limit (100C) as the indicator of the engineers' conservatism.

I think they probably were a bit conservative, but no doubt, they were considering the temperature operating limits of the entire system, not just the CPU. Other components, e.g., the disk drives cannot operate at 100C.

You said the GPU is triggering the fan. I don't know, but suspect the GPU's thermal limit is similar to that of the CPU. You may want to confirm with ATI. However, your settings will result in a hotter environment inside the case, which may impact other, more heat-sensitive components in the long run.

G

invisik · #358 Post by **invisik** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 1:24 am

Hey all,

Just found and installed your great fan control program on my Thinkpad X31 2884-JUU and it works great! Love the smart mode, as I think the BIOS default lets the machine run too hot.

CPU 44°C (0x78)
APS 42°C (0x79)
PCM 49°C (0x7a)
GPU 41°C (0x7b)
BAT 34°C (0x7c)
BAT 30°C (0x7e)
BUS 0°C (0xc0)
PCI 0°C (0xc1)
PWR 0°C (0xc2)

Manual fan control works fine too. Keep up the great work!

-m

kw · #359 Post by kw » Fri Jan 27, 2006 3:32 am

Hi,

does anyone get emaijalas optimized version or a link for it?

thx
kw

amgdoc · #360 Post by **amgdoc** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 9:54 am

GpsPasSion wrote:Great proggie ! Any chance we can get that "service" version ?
Also is there an undervolting program that plays nice with Fan Control ? NHC seems to be interfering with it with 'Warning: Can't read Status (possible conflict with other software)" messages ?

just turn off the sensor readings in NHC to allow it to work with FC. i have and FC is reading the temp with no errors. why would you want both programs to monitor temp anyway? just let FC do the monitoring since it is in charge of cooling.

or you could try RMclock as tincbtrar suggested. i have not tried it before and it might give you what you are looking for.

Thinkpad Fan Noise Problem: Light at the End of the Tunnel

replace fan -- built-in fan simply too loud for me

List of (un)supported Thinkpads

x40 fan control

Turn off beep?

Works on X31

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