14.1" SXGA+ or 15" Flexview?

[jrcade]

New forum user here...

I know this is a very old topic in these forums and I have read a tremendous amount on it, but still have a couple of questions:

1) Is the difference in quality of the Flexview screen really enough to offset the difference in weight you pick up and battery life you lose? Appears those are the biggest two drawbacks to Flexview, and that I'd gain about 1 lb. of weight and lose around 30 min - 1 hr of battery life. I had a guy at Lenovo tell me he could barely tell the difference between the two screens (he is trying to sell me, of course).

2) Has anyone heard anything at all about Lenovo implementing the Flexview technology into its 14.1" models in the near future?

Thanks for any input anyone could give on this, particularly anyone who has seen, or owns, both displays. Since it's hard to find Thinkpads in retail, I can't really see this first-hand myself before I purchase.

[Kenn]

Hi Jrcade,

I have both the 15" UXGA and 14.1" SXGA+, and I would say it's not worth the extra weight, size, and loss of battery life if you're looking at the same resolution.

The difference in size and weight between the two may not seem like much at first glance, especially on paper, but it is HUGE if you carry your laptop around.

The horizontal view angle of the 14" is just fine, you get the most benefit out of flexview with the vertical view angle, which just means you have to position the screen angle a bit more carefully with the 14". IMO, the extra brightness of the Flexview is relatively negligible.

My only considerations for Flexview are the following: 1) I believe the IPS technology of the flexview allows it to display true 24-bit color, whereas standard LCDs do not (i'm sure someone can correct me if I'm wrong on this). 2) Only the 15" flexview comes with the higher resolution UXGA display. If don't absolutely need either or both of these, I would recommend going with the 14" SXGA+ instead.

[jrcade]

Thanks, Kenn...That helps a lot...

I mainly carry my laptop to and from work, but do want something that's fairly portable for travel situations as well.

So for Photoshop work, watching DVDs, etc. the 14.1 is fine?

Also, on the last part of my post, any idea if Lenovo might put Flexview (or any other type of enhanced display option) on the 14.1s anytime soon? Sure would hate to bite on a 14 now and then they do it in the next year.

Finally, the new Intel chipset on the T43 says it supports high-def audio. Does that really give me any advantages on this machine?

[dr_st]

Considering that the 15" T4x laptops are lighter than most 14" laptops out there, I'd say that the difference in weight is not only not huge, it's negligible. And yes, I carry my laptop around. With the battery and power cord and other accessories in the bag and the bag itself, I doubt that the 14" vs 15" is making any noticeable difference.

Size might actually be a bigger issue. A 15" has a slightly bigger footprint. Still fits pretty well on my lap.

14" screen is fine for almost everything. But no matter what you do, a 15" screen is going to be better than a 14" for everything, because it is bigger, and at the same resolution things are going to be bigger and easier on your eyes. I wouldn't want to look at SXGA+ on a 14". In the long run, the thing is going to be easier on your eyes, and I find it more important than the other factors, none of which is really limiting.

The battery life loss is going to be there, due to the stronger backlighting on the Flexview and just the simple size difference. But you can always balance it out by lowering the brightness a bit. Under certain lighting conditions, I find the Flexview on my T42 workable even at min brightness.

Speaking of color depth, as far as I know, Flexview is an IPS panel which CANNOT display 24-bit color, only 18-bit. The new S-IPS (Super IPS) panels can, but the regular IPS cannot. At least according to official specs I got from LG and IDTech, who manufacture the panels for what IBM calls "Flexview". Still, IPS is known to represent colors better than the standard TN panels. Even if they are ultimately limited to the same depth, colors are likely to be more vivid on IPS.

Yes, I'm trying to sell you a Flexview.

Also, on the last part of my post, any idea if Lenovo might put Flexview (or any other type of enhanced display option) on the 14.1s anytime soon? Sure would hate to bite on a 14 now and then they do it in the next year.

No such plans have been announced, as far as I know. Sure they might just do it out of the blue, but if you keep on waiting because someone just might release something uber-cool all of a sudden, you'll never get what you need.

[stuartf]

And the Flexview is NOT UXGA but SXGA according to my data, FYI

[redsb3]

15" panels are available in SXGA+ & UXGA and both are flexview, only the XGA 15" panel is NOT a flexview. I believe UXGA may be limited to "P" models, long time since I looked at the TABOOK, so may not necessarily be true any more but it was with the t42's.

[Kyocera]

Kenn:
The difference in size and weight between the two may not seem like much at first glance, especially on paper, but it is HUGE if you carry your laptop around.

This really is a great point, got both, I used to carry the 15" now it seems so huge by comparison and it stays home.

[christopher_wolf]

Yup, the only thing I worried about is size. 14.1" SXGA+ is good enough for my purposes( PyMol, MATLAB, Simulink, FORTRAN and C++, and Web Browsing) and I am fairly mobile. It all depends on what you need. I have watched plenty of DVDs and the 14.1" SXGA+ is pretty good for this. I haven't heard of any moves by IBM/Lenovo to put the Flexview on 14.1" screens though. The 15" is only really worth it if you are getting the UXGA Screen; IMHO, it doesn't make too much sense to have the same resolution in a bigger form factor. This is also noticable on Airline flights. HTH

[IR0NMAN]

I would choose the 14" over the 15", because the 15" in noticably bigger and looks bulky. The only problems is the color are a bit off on the 14" compared to the flexview screen. If I had to choose again between a 14" and 15", I would definately take the 14" in a hearbeat!

[RonS]

I feel the flames already...

It's really a personal choice. I have both 14.1" (2 of them) and 15" (5 of them), and I think the 15" far superior. The 15" flexview is leaps and bounds better quality over the 14.1, which is almost impossible to position to that there is even brightness up and down the display. The Flexview is razor-sharp and beautiful, which is pretty important if you're using it all day.

For people who occasionally use their notebook, the 14.1" will do. But if it's a primary tool, I wouldn't consider anything other than Flexview.

[Kenn]

Dr_St, thanks for the data on the IPS!

A lot of great points being made for both sides on this thread. Another 2 cents from me:

I use both the 14" and the 15" regularly, and for disclosure's sake, the 15" is my regular day to day workhorse, which I carry to and from school, and between every class. Even though it's only ~1-1.3lb more on paper, the weight difference between them is VERY noticeable. You can easily carry the 14" by the palmrest in one had, but the 15" would be quite a load. The 14" is small enough to be considered "swingable" while being carried (and by that word, I'm not advocating anyone chuck their computer into the air), whereas the 15" has a lot of mass behind it and you don't want to put it a lot of momentum. That kind of difference is huge when you're carrying it around.

14" SXGA+ should be more than enough for most people's need. Higher res is not actually better for watching movies, as the native res of the video is lower anyways (around 720x480 or so for DVDs, even smaller for most DivX downloads). Also, you're getting plenty of resolution with SXGA+ in the first place, at 1400x1050 it's closer in resolution to UXGA than it is to XGA (you get nearly 700k more pixels going from XGA to SXGA+, and only 450k more going up to UXGA).

Personally, as a more hardcore user than the typical laptop purchaser, I went with the 15" for a single reason - because the 14" doesn't offer UXGA. But as a regular user of both, and going to a school where half the laptops I see are T4x machines, I can wholeheartedly say the vast majority of users are fine with the 14." IMO, the 15" is for a more specialized niche (one that I'm happy to be a part of, but unquestionably entails huge usability tradeoffs).

I have a couple of screens up here showing the difference between resolutions:

First is the 15" Flexview showdown: UXGA on the left, SXGA+ on the right. You'll notice you're not losing very much usable resolution by going SXGA+:
http://www.pbase.com/kenn/image/42854408

Second is XGA/SXGA+/UXGA at constant dpi. Both give you significantly more content than XGA at the same size.
http://www.pbase.com/kenn/image/37491661/original

I'd almost go as far as to say: If you need to ask, then you're definitely better off with the 14". If you really need the 15", you'd know it for sure.

[Kyocera]

It's pretty much relative, when you say :

For people who occasionally use their notebook, the 14.1" will do. But if it's a primary tool......

my laptop is my primary tool, in and out of customers offices 4 to 5 a day usually teetering/totering it somewhere near a router or drop and plugging in to their network to troubleshoot. The 14" is easily deployable for this, and as you can see in my case the screen sharpness is below weight, size, battery life,

This is not a flame, just another way to look at "needs" of a laptop.

[christopher_wolf]

I, too, see quite a few laptops around school here; half of them are Thinkpads and the other half Apples. I had to choose between 14.1" and 15", now I chose the 14.1" because I knew that it would provide excellent resolution and a good amount of mobility up from XGA. The only other real option was a 15" UXGA. It looked very good, but wasn't as easy to carry around as the 14.1" and I suspected had only slightly less battery life. Even though, for what I do, Graphics are pretty important, a 14.1" does pretty good. I did try out the 15" and was multi-tasking on it very well. The 15" only makes sense, though, if it is a UXGA. It isn't that 15" is better than 14.1" for a "Primary Tool" (I do *alot* of work on my 14.1", generally molecular rendering, graph viewing, MATLAB Console work, and Web Browsing plus Winamp, and consider it as my primary tool over a very large LCD Desktop) and it simply boils down to personal preference.

[jrcade]

Thanks for all the input folks...you have all helped tremendously...I am going to probably go with my first instinct, which most of you have backed up, and that was the 14.1 SXGA+.

Guess I can always send it back if something just doesn't fit right when I receive it!

Thanks again for everyone's responses.

[DIGITALgimpus]

Personally, don't think I'd go less than 15". I really would prefer a 17" widescreen... more screen space is always better. I don't think they are that much heavier than 14".

[RS_003]

ah...

Go less...

Well let me tell you

I owned about all sizes possible.

From a 10.6" sony vaio T1XP Widescreen laptop, to an R50P UXGA

And I must say, the flexviews display abnormal image quality... but the weight ... no ... My main laptops atm are a X31 (12" XGA) and 2 T41's ( SXGA 14" ) and their weight is just about right (but the 1.2kilo’s of the X40 and T1XP I had where perfect )

So ill take a 14” inch any day over a 15” (mainly because I don’t need the perfect image of a flexview since I own multiple good tft’s at home)


About size anyway, I own a bunch of desktop tft's, ranging from dual 17" to dual 24" Dell 2405FPW.

And honestly I used the 10.6" Widescreen (t1xp) just as much as my dual 24" setup.
(at home that is)

[ganttguy]

My company recently purchased a 14.1" SXGA+ and a 15" SXGA+ FlexView. I recently did a side-by-side comparison. As Kenn said, I find the main difference is the much greater vertical viewing angle of the FlexView. Whether this is a benefit depends on how how often you think greater viewing angles will be needed, and whether it's a good thing.

If you're mostly the only one viewing the display, you're most likely going to be right in front of it and viewing it head-on, so the viewing angle is of little importance (you might need to adjust the angle of the screen a bit more often with the 14.1"). If you're frequently going to be showing something on your display to a group of people gathered around it, then the FlexView would be better. Keep in mind that this also makes it easier for the uninvited to view your display, whether at work or in public. The 14.1" tends to wash out quickly as the vertical viewing angle increases. Horizontal viewing angle, however, is comparable.

Otherwise, I think there's little difference between the displays. At maximum brightness on AC power (or on battery with the brightness set to High), the FlexView may be a bit brighter. In some cases, I felt that the 14.1" had more vivid colors, depending on the image and where on the screen you look.

Size and weight are pretty close on paper. I perceive the 14.1" to be more mobile to a significant degree, however. I carried both of them around with one hand as I typically do when I walk to a meeting. The 15" made my hand hurt/tire after a few seconds, the 14" did not. I think this partly has to do with the slightly greater weight and size combining to exert a greater lever effect on your hand/wrist/forearm. Also, the 15" is slightly thicker than the 14.1"; this might also contribute to it feeling slightly less comfortable to carry. I've carried both in my messenger bag, and the 15" felt just enough more weighty to be uncomfortable.

The last consideration I thought of is that the 15" has greater depth, and this is reflected in a slightly deeper wrist wrest area - although the surface of the extra depth is not flat, but curves gently down to the front edge of the unit. Still, if you have very large hands, you may find the 15" provides a bit more comfort due to the extra support.

[smugiri]

As an aside, am I the only who noticed @RS_003 mention that he has three main laptops? Do you find yourself misplacing a couple of them every so often? I think that an even more important question is how do you keep your work/data synchonized over all of them?

[RS_003]

Oh well...

I own even more, and have 2 desktops.
But you learn fast when you have them

I can tell you on the spot what file is on what machine.

And sure. Ill plug them in once a week and move all the files to a central place, and them copy them back (so every machine has the latest updates on files)

But honestly... My X31 goes with me all the time, and the T41 just comes along if i need some more power, or I need to work 6+ hours on something, then a bigger screen is nice to have