Getting IBM to switch out the keyboards.

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cjsuh · #1 Post by **cjsuh** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 10:20 am

I'm on the phone with IBM right now and they seem very receptive to switching out the "China" keyboard with a "Thai" keyboard. They are apparently treating it like a defect.

However, they need the FRU for the part that I want ordered.

Can anyone confirm that FRU #08K5044 is specifically for the Thai keyboard? I have seen people list it as 08K5044 RM87, but the representative I spoke with says they only use the FRU number (i.e. 08K5044) when ordering parts. I want to make sure I don't end up getting another China keyboard, if the FRU numbers for both are identical.

Thanks, in advance.

Notnac · #2 Post by **Notnac** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 10:42 am

Which ThinkPad model do you have? The 08K5044 is specified for the 14.1 inch.

cjsuh · #3 Post by **cjsuh** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 10:58 am

I have the 14.1".

I was actually unsuccessful in getting the keyboard switch because, according to IBM, there is only one FRU for the T42 14.1" keyboard. If they were to attempt to replace my keyboard by ordering a new one, there would be no way for them to confirm that the new keyboard was, indeed, the "Made in Thailand" model. I know people have been able to get this done, though, so I'm a bit confused.

RoadHazard · #4 Post by **RoadHazard** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 11:05 am

Hey cjsuh,

Are you Thai? I'm Thai also. Nice to meet you.

Sorry I can't help you with your problem. I'm just using the US keyboard.

Notnac · #5 Post by **Notnac** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 11:23 am

My understanding was that the FRU keyboard # 08K5044 IS ONLY made in Thailand. Sounds to me like they're saying that keyboards with the same model number (08K5044) are also made in countries other than Thailand.

What is the part number of the keyboard you're trying to replace?

cjsuh · #6 Post by **cjsuh** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 11:42 am

RoadHazard wrote:Hey cjsuh,

Are you Thai? I'm Thai also. Nice to meet you.

Sorry I can't help you with your problem. I'm just using the US keyboard.

Hi, RoadHazard.

I'm actually not Thai. I was talking about a keyboard that is made in Thailand because the general consensus here is that it is a much better keyboard than the ones that have been coming with the T42's, which were assembled in China.

But, nice to meet you anyways.

cjsuh · #7 Post by **cjsuh** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 11:47 am

Notnac wrote:My understanding was that the FRU keyboard # 08K5044 IS ONLY made in Thailand. Sounds to me like they're saying that keyboards with the same model number (08K5044) are also made in countries other than Thailand.

What is the part number of the keyboard you're trying to replace?

I don't have my ThinkPad with me right now, but that is what is confusing me. I don't know if the "assembled in China" keybaords have a different FRU #. The IBM tech support guy (actually the Gold team member, or whatever they're called, who are in charge of support for the T42's) told me that there is only one FRU associated with the 14.1" T42 keyboards and that was 08K5044. When I gave him the RM87 number, he said that he has no control over that, just which FRU gets ordered.

Can anyone confirm that the "assembled in China" 14.1" T42 keyboard is the same FRU #08K5044?

Kenn · #8 Post by **Kenn** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 12:05 pm

That's not true. The first tech to answer the phone looked up the FRUs and agreed to switch out my keyboard in less than 5 minutes on the phone.

She said: There are 2 FRUs for 14.1": the 08k5044 AND the one that was listed here as China.

There is only 1 FRU for the 15" (assembled in China).

However, we've seen pictures here and had accounts of thai-made or at least thicker-baseplate 15" keyboards, so even that information may not be completely accurate!

Hangfire · #9 Post by **Hangfire** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 12:12 pm

Message has been edited by Moderator

Which keyboard is:

08K5044 Model RM87

cjsuh · #10 Post by **cjsuh** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 1:09 pm

Kenn wrote:That's not true. The first tech to answer the phone looked up the FRUs and agreed to switch out my keyboard in less than 5 minutes on the phone.

She said: There are 2 FRUs for 14.1": the 08k5044 AND the one that was listed here as China.

There is only 1 FRU for the 15" (assembled in China).

However, we've seen pictures here and had accounts of thai-made or at least thicker-baseplate 15" keyboards, so even that information may not be completely accurate!

Interesting. Well, I just called and had IBM send me the FRU #08K5044 keybaord. Hopefully, it'll be the one I want. I'll post my results when it arrives. Though, if it's back-ordered like people have been saying, that may be a while.

Thanks for the help!

Kenn · #11 Post by **Kenn** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 1:43 pm

Hangfire wrote:Message has been edited by Moderator

Which keyboard is:

08K5044 Model RM87

My guess would be neither. Why? The keyboard on the right is clearly the 14" keyboard, but you can see "Assembled in China" on it, and it does look identical to the China-made variety, with the thin stamped aluminum plate. However, the sturdy one on the left has 3 screw points, which would make it a 15" keyboard, where they don't have an 08k5044...

I really hope someone can get to the bottom of this. I want to know the exact model number of the left keyboard so I can get the right replacement for my 15"....

kano · #12 Post by **kano** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 2:50 pm

Keyboard made in Thailand for T42p 15" : FRU replacement NO. 93P4780 Mod. RM87.
Regards,
KaNo

Conmee · #13 Post by **Conmee** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 3:09 pm

Folks,

I've checked out 4 15" T42p's, 3 14" T42p's, and 2 T41p's, and here's the summary of keyboards (also confirmed by information in the Hardware Maintenance Manual, which has a separate section dedicated to keyboard FRUs).

There are TWO keyboards for the 14" T Series:

08K5044 is Made in Thailand. This keyboard has the thicker/sturdier aluminum with fewer ventilation/air holes (resulting in firmer, quieter keys).

08K4986 is Made in China. This keyboard has the apparently cheaper/thinner aluminum with additional ventilation/air holes.

There is ONE keyboard for the 15" T and R Series:

93P4780 is Made in Thailand. This keyboard has the thicker/sturdier aluminum with fewer ventilation/air holes. So this keyboard is as good as it gets for the 15". If your 15" T Series keyboard is too springy/clackety, or flexes too much, not sure what the problem would be. But this keyboard is your only option at this point.

The RMUS or RM87 designations are simply model numbers that indicate an 87-key English (US) Language keyboard. The RMUS and RM87 model designations are NOT part of the FRU.

Lastly, I tried to fit the 15" T Series keyboard on the 14" T Series, and the 14" T Series keyboard on the 15" T Series, and neither are interchangeable. Although they are the same dimensions, the screw posts do not align correctly to make them interchangeable.

So... To net it out:

There are 2 Keyboards for the 14" T Series (08K5044-Thai and 08K4986-China) and 1 Keyboard for the 15" T Series (93P4780-Thai).

Daniel.

cjsuh · #14 Post by **cjsuh** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 3:22 pm

Brilliant!

You should post this as a separate thread, since I'm sure others would be interested in hearing your well-researched findings.

Humpa · #15 Post by **Humpa** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 3:52 pm

I thought the US 15" keyboard had 2 available FRU's, 93P4840 or 93P4780.
You can see them here:
http://www-1.ibm.com/support/docview.ws ... MIGR-46503

The 93P4840 is made in China, and my 2378-DXU came with that one.
I just got off the phone with ibm, and they are sending me a 93P4780.

Hangfire · #16 Post by **Hangfire** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 4:09 pm

So... To net it out:
There are 2 Keyboards for the 14" T Series (08K5044-Thai and 08K4986-China) and 1 Keyboard for the 15" T Series (93P4780-Thai).
Daniel.

Thank you Daniel!

Humpa · #17 Post by **Humpa** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 4:28 pm

Conmee wrote: There are 2 Keyboards for the 14" T Series (08K5044-Thai and 08K4986-China) and 1 Keyboard for the 15" T Series (93P4780-Thai).

My 15" T42 came with keyboard FRU 93P4840.
It says made in China.

It seems there are 2 US keyboards for the 15" T series
1. 93P4840 (made in China)
2. 93P4780 (made in Thai?)

This also lists those same 2 FRU numbers as available for the 15" T series US keyboard:
http://www-1.ibm.com/support/docview.ws ... MIGR-46503

BTW, Daniel, thanks for the info on the 93P4780. I was just waiting to make sure it was the good one before I had IBM send it to me.

Kenn · #18 Post by **Kenn** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 4:29 pm

DHL didn't ring my doorbell today >:(

But the keyboard that has shipped with both the 15" T42 and T42p that I have is 93P4840 - "Assembled in China," so it's for certain that there IS a cheaper aluminum China keyboard out there.

The question most of us want answered is whether or not 93P4780 is confirmed to be the FRU for the heavier Thai one.

Humpa · #19 Post by **Humpa** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 4:36 pm

Sorry KaNo, I see you responded first that the 93P4780 was the Thai assembled keyboard for the 15" T series.

Kenn, both KaNo and Conmee say it is assembled in Thai. We'll both be able to confirm that with our own eyes soon enough though.

Conmee · #20 Post by **Conmee** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 5:27 pm

Humpa wrote:I thought the US 15" keyboard had 2 available FRU's, 93P4840 or 93P4780.
You can see them here:
http://www-1.ibm.com/support/docview.ws ... MIGR-46503

The 93P4840 is made in China, and my 2378-DXU came with that one.
I just got off the phone with ibm, and they are sending me a 93P4780.

Humpa,

So much for me relying on the HMM... lol. I must admit, though, that none of the systems I have examined thus far are "Express" models, and I believe the 2378DXU/DYU is an Express. Not sure if IBM makes a conscious decision to go with one keyboard v. another depending on Express/Workhorse/Educational models, etc.

Anyhow, the link you posted does indicate that there are two source companies (NMB and ALPS) that provide keyboards for the 15" T Series (93P4780=NMB and 93P4840=ALPS). NMB is a conglomerate that makes ball bearings, fans, keyboards, etc, you name it. You can even locate the factory in Thailand where they make the keyboards on this interactive Flash global map... lol http://www.nmbusa.com/map.html And I find it interesting that Humpa's link doesn't show both 14" keyboards. In fact, it now only lists the Thai keyboard. I wonder if IBM is phasing out the Chinese-made keyboard on the 14" models. I really wish IBM could get the TABOOK, HMM, and Support pages to all agree on parts/part numbers and be consistent. This is driving us all crazy.

Daniel.

Conmee · #21 Post by **Conmee** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 5:31 pm

Humpa wrote:
Conmee wrote: There are 2 Keyboards for the 14" T Series (08K5044-Thai and 08K4986-China) and 1 Keyboard for the 15" T Series (93P4780-Thai).
My 15" T42 came with keyboard FRU 93P4840.
It says made in China.

It seems there are 2 US keyboards for the 15" T series
1. 93P4840 (made in China)
2. 93P4780 (made in Thai?)

This also lists those same 2 FRU numbers as available for the 15" T series US keyboard:
http://www-1.ibm.com/support/docview.ws ... MIGR-46503

BTW, Daniel, thanks for the info on the 93P4780. I was just waiting to make sure it was the good one before I had IBM send it to me.

Humpa and others,

There are 2 Keyboards for the 14" T Series (08K5044-Thai and 08K4986-China) and 2 Keyboards for the 15" T Series (93P4780-Thai and 93P4840-China).

NMB is the company with manufacturing facilities in Thailand, and ALPS is the company with manufacturing facilities in China. P.S. NMB DOES have Chinese locations as well, but they have an interactive map that tells you what is made where, and it lists keyboards and other parts in the Thai factories. lol

Daniel.

bluedoc · #22 Post by **bluedoc** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 5:40 pm

IBM is also sending me the keyboard 93P4780 as a replacement. After chasing the order around, learned that the keyboard is not in stock and will be shipped to me directly from CHINA in 3-5 days, maybe more maybe less. CHINA!!!?. Hopefully, it is a different vendor/manufacturer and off a more reasonable quality. I am a bit disillusioned at the whole scenario.

Anyone can confirm if this is an EXPRESS models affliction.

Kenn · #23 Post by **Kenn** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 5:43 pm

From CHINA? Haha, the plot thickens!!

Nope, this is not an Express-only problem. Both of my 15s with China keyboards are non-Express EDU 2373 models.

EnsignRicki · #24 Post by **EnsignRicki** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 5:47 pm

Thanks for all the info everyone. Just got IBM to ship me the Thailand keyboard. Apparently they said I don't need to send the old one back which is kinda nifty.

Conmee · #25 Post by **Conmee** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 5:53 pm

bluedoc wrote:IBM is also sending me the keyboard 93P4780 as a replacement. After chasing the order around, learned that the keyboard is not in stock and will be shipped to me directly from CHINA in 3-5 days, maybe more maybe less. CHINA!!!?. Hopefully, it is a different vendor/manufacturer and off a more reasonable quality. I am a bit disillusioned at the whole scenario.

Anyone can confirm if this is an EXPRESS models affliction.

NMB and/or IBM probably have distribution centers in China/Hong Kong/Taiwan for US delivery. Stay hopeful that you too can experience the pleasure of a Thai keyboard... lmao

Daniel.

bluedoc · #26 Post by **bluedoc** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 5:53 pm

I am just wasting too much of my time on this 1 problem.

There must be someone with the keyboard 93P4780 who can tell us more details.

Forgive me for the errors, I am typing with a French\Canadian keyboard.

Hangfire · #27 Post by **Hangfire** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 6:01 pm

Most of us spent a lot of our hard earned cash for these top of the line laptops. I think the two components that we come in contact with the most, the screen and keyboards, should be of the highest quality. JMO

bluedoc · #28 Post by **bluedoc** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 6:37 pm

I am using a Thai-made keyboard can\french model they sent by mistae and that is what making me nervous about the new order of the us english model 93P4780 being sent from China.

What if the new 93P4780 the same shoddy quality as the factory delivered keyboard then I am really in a jam. i got a good keyboard with too many foreign marks I can't really use and an us english I can use but too c****y. But thanks for the hopeful attitude.

Hangfire is right. The most often use parts are the keyboard and the screen hence better quality is expected.

JaimitoBond · #29 Post by **JaimitoBond** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 6:41 pm

Well, this seemed to be an issue for you guys, and I didn't realize there was a KB problem until I read them on this forum.

My T41p came with the China KB, and I thought it was so much better than other comapnies. It is also bette than my previous TP i-series.

I think everyone seem to assume that the China assembled model is bad, but it that really true? There are obviously at least two different designs for 14" and 15" models, as we can clearly see. But is one really that much better than the other, or is it just that some of you got a lemon? Or is it that some prefers the feel of one over the other? As I don't have the Thai one to compare, I can't say. But this KB I have is better than any other ones I've tried on a laptop.

It almost reminds me of the Sony vs Sanyo battery issue. On the 6-cells, they both are loose, and yet some thinks the Sony one is better for sure.

Guest · #30 Post by **Guest** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 10:48 pm

Very good point you made there? It is like do we have the best quality ThinkPad or best quality notebook? We know what we are getting is better than most computer companies but then we want the best from IBM. Besides flexing if a keyboard may make a little more noise than another is it that serious. (Unless you are used to no noise at all from IBM). Can anyone admit to being maybe to anal at times on certain things? Maybe not on this issue but others? (This is not really a rhetorical question but I don't need anyone to start posting replies, just think about it). At the same time I wonder if people want a new keyboard because something is really "Wrong" or because they hear many people on the forum talking about getting new ones. But I guess that what this forums if for right.... I keep forgetting. Maybe when I finally buy my ThinkPad I will know.

But I agree again with HANGFire that one person who always mentions this when talking about Think pads, "most of us spent a lot of our hard earned cash for these top of the line laptops." I am thinking the same thing. I will be [censored] if I have a cheap part when there is a better one out there. And yes the keyboard is most important part.

Getting IBM to switch out the keyboards.

Getting IBM to switch out the keyboards.

Let's Net-Net it out... lmao

Why am I Blue

Re: Why am I Blue

Re: Why am I Blue

Yes, CHINA. The plot is so I all choked out

Thanks for the encouragement Daniel

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