T60 Pics From 51nb.com - discussion

[darrenf]

IBM stopped targeting "consumers" some time ago (non-business consumers, that is). I would think that Lenovo would like to expand both bases -- keep the Txx series a business-friendly machine and use the likes of the Z series and their pre-IBM laptops which they are still producing (albeit for the overseas market) to appeal to the masses.

-darren

[Domain]

I honestly don't see what is wrong with black. It's a notebook built to do work. Not to make sweet sweet love to like a new car.

[rajm]

That is under the "Expansion Options" Section; you can get those by attaching it to a dock or a port replicator.

http://tinyurl.com/9dn9t

Are you sure thats what it means? All the other ports listed in that section are ones that are on the unit itself, "3 USB 2.0, DVI, Docking/Port Replicator, External Display, Headphone / Line out, Microphone / Line in, RJ-11, RJ-45"

[Kyocera]

SpaRood

It's the ugly duck among the swans.

This is totally your opinion. If you view objects as art, it is totally subjective to your eye. Personally I have never seen an Ugly laptop, just some that have different color schemes, they generally are the same shape and dimensions so if one was color blind they might not be able to distinguish an HP from a Dell.

EDIT: Moderator moved the post that this was referencing, so it appears to have no context.

[christopher_wolf]

Kyocera is right; the opinion that the Thinkpad is ugly is a minor one at best. One could make a similar statement about the first iMacs; "Plastic and gaudy colors" is one I used to hear. Some people call the color of the iBooks "Heartless White."All a matter of personal opinion; I like both the Thinkpad and the Powerbook. Both of which have excellent looks and design.

Not quite flamebait or trolling; but not that bad at it either.

[SpaRood]

Even art can be measured. I am not bashing the Thinkpad, I would love to have one. Being ugly is no shame, as the Thinkpad is extremely solid, reliable and robust. If I need to choose between an elegant nice looking, but weak laptop, and an ugly black box that is hard to break, then I would of course choose the latter. It's the trade off.

[christopher_wolf]

You can indeed measure art, the problem is that the ruler keeps changing from person to person; hence it is best described as "Qualitative" for the most part. An opinion about such things is probably the major force leading the design of laptops today. An example of this would be Widescreen; ever since the Powerbooks came out, I have seen quite a few Dell laptops (I own one too) that look *very* close to the Powerbook with widescreen and attempts at a Titanium look; and yet, do they have the same "Good Looks" as the Powerbook? Most people would say no, yet indeed it is the same "Concept" they (Dell) were, and still are, trying to get across.

[amensi]

That is under the "Expansion Options" Section; you can get those by attaching it to a dock or a port replicator.

http://tinyurl.com/9dn9t

Are you sure thats what it means? All the other ports listed in that section are ones that are on the unit itself, "3 USB 2.0, DVI, Docking/Port Replicator, External Display, Headphone / Line out, Microphone / Line in, RJ-11, RJ-45"

Yes ! thats what a port replicator do. It allows you connect your laptop to all your cables by just sitting the laptop on the dock so it has the same connectivity on the docking station then on the laptop + a DVI ports. The video card on the T60 listed there does not support DVI. So, since the image signal on a DVI connection is in binary data (0 & 1) the only way to achive this is via the docking port if the videocard does not support such signal.

[rajm]

Are you sure thats what it means? All the other ports listed in that section are ones that are on the unit itself, "3 USB 2.0, DVI, Docking/Port Replicator, External Display, Headphone / Line out, Microphone / Line in, RJ-11, RJ-45"

Yes ! thats what a port replicator do. It allows you connect your laptop to all your cables by just sitting the laptop on the dock so it has the same connectivity on the docking station then on the laptop + a DVI ports. The video card on the T60 listed there does not support DVI. So, since the image signal on a DVI connection is in binary data (0 & 1) the only way to achive this is via the docking port if the videocard does not support such signal.

Why does it say "Docking/Port Replicator" then though? If that list is for the port replicator jacks then why would it say it has a Docking port on the unit? Also, if you look at the Z60m http://www-131.ibm.com/webapp/wcs/store ... logId=-840, under "expansion options" it lists all of the ports on the system like the 3-1 digital media reader, the IEEE1394, and S-Video out. and instead of DVI it says "External Display." Both the Z60m and the T60 use the new "Advanced Dock" system by Lenovo, so the ports the port replicator has are the same for both models. The port replicator does not have S-Video, IEEE1394, nor the card reader, so can't it be that the ports under "expansion options" are the ports on the computer itself?

I know from experience from my A31p that the ports on the back are exactly the ones listed under expansion options.

[Rose]

Here is a picture of the base of the T60. (info states that it is a X60 but it is in fact a T60). What is really disturbing on that picture is those major air-vents in the left back end corner.

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/shfawaz/d ... m=35c5.jpg

Now I already complained about buttons located on the front and what is even worse for those of us who tend to use our laptop in bed and in our lap if not air-vents in the bottom?

[christopher_wolf]

I am still confused; so, under that list of ports, it states that the T60 has a DVI port...Does it? I have also seen it stated in Reviews that it has an S-Video port. Might these be available with a port replicator or are they on the T60 itself?

[darrenf]

I am still confused; so, under that list of ports, it states that the T60 has a DVI port...Does it? I have also seen it stated in Reviews that it has an S-Video port. Might these be available with a port replicator or are they on the T60 itself?

None of the pictures posted so far would support the presence of a DVI port. I think if they did make a last-minute decision to go with DVI it would have replaced the D-sub RGB connector and the pics that Rose linked to from CES show a D-sub cable connected. I guess the only remaining hope would be that they stacked the D-sub and DVI together and that the cable is covering that up in the picture, but I'm doubtful.

-darren

[christopher_wolf]

Ah, Thanks for that clarification, Darren

Fan vents on the bottom? Hmm, well that isn't always the best solution for a Laptop...Considering that the name implies that people put it *on* their lap when anoth flat and stable surface isn't available. The vents can get clogged, etc. To my knowledge, the T4X Series are the only laptops I know that have distributed air intakes for the fans. The PCMCIA Bay, the little slots near the lower right corner of the Thinkpad near the HDD, etc. To me, that seems like a much better idea than one centralized air intake that can be easily blocked.

[K. Eng]

Christopher is right on with respect to intake ports or vents in the bottom of the machine. In my experience this is not such a great idea. I've seen too many Dell machines get severely clogged with dust because they suck up air from the bottom. Not only that, but it is easier for the intake to get blocked if one uses the machine on one's lap. A vent in the bottom is similarly a bad idea. Heat rises. Trying to push it out the bottom will result in some of it rising back up into the machine.

Best to draw air from the side and push it out the side as well... IMO the T60 cooling system is appropriately placed.

[Rose]

I now se that Lenovo states a T60p will be available configured with FireGL V5200 256 MB graphics.

http://www.pc.ibm.com/us/thinkpad/tseri ... ation.html

That is indeed nifty!

Although, I am a bit surprised. By doing this Lenovo is the only vendor offering a 14.1” workstation class notebook with serious graphical performance, and this in fact does get me a bit jealous since I’m sitting here with my brand new T43p that in comparison to my former T41p is a pale upgrade over a quite long period of time. On the other hand. Lenovo does not clearly state that a T60p will be offered in a 14.1 inch shell.

In the same time I cant find any revealing information anywhere about a V5200 graphical chipset. No such card is yet presented by ATI. Question is how soon this will happen.

[Aroc]

I can speak from a business perspective. The VGA port on the notebooks are used most often when traveling to connect to a front projector for presentations. More of then not, this projectors have a 15pin d-sub VGA port and a not a DVI port. Personally until I see this switchover in projectors (some sort of critical mass), I'd rather have a 15pin VGA port than a DVI port.

If I'm going to be using an extenal LCD, I'm probably going to be using a mouse+keyboard and ethernet, so I'll want an actual docking station. So the actual ports on the notebook itself are meaningless.

I think this is the reality for the majority of business users (medium and large businesses) which the Thinkpad targets.

Some other comments.

• More than 2 or 3 USB ports on the notebook itself? Not really 100% necessary. Since if most business users need 4 or more ports, they are going to be running a docking station. That's a lot of devices to be toting around
• Firewire port. I agree this would be useful to use without a dock or without a PC Card adapter. Even though we have USB 2.0. I'd like to see this more.
• SD or compact flash reader. I'm not 100% convinced this is needed for most business uses away from a docking station. I'd rather see a firewire or IEEE1394 port than a card reader be included, if something has to be sacrificed.
• parallel port. Business users like to print, and sometimes given when one is visiting a closed, secure, or hostile network, it would be quicker to print to some random LaserJet or InkJet using a parallel port rather than use ethernet. Maybe the thinking is some shops still have old LaserJet 4Ms or 5Ms (or 4000s, 5Si's, etc) which aren't USB capable but are still workhorses nontheless. Printing is very high profile in business, so I can see why it was included. (even if I don't 100% think it is necessary).
• no serial port. I miss this, being a network admin. But with most PDAs and mice being USB now, most business travelers don't need a COM port anymore.

Plus space is at a premium on a notebook the size of a T-series or an X-Series. You can't have ports for everything. There has to be compromise.
I see the ports on the notebook itself being there to serve the needs of business travels first. The needs of individuals (students, academics, entrepreneurs (sp?), engineers, enthusiasts, etc) are farther down the list.

[snife]

The 256MB FireGL card will be very nice for a notebook.

The ports thing is a personal preference, I haven't used parallel or serial for years but I can understand some people needing them. The T60 is luckily going to have an option for the UltraBaySlim which will give serial and parallel ports for those that need them.

I would like a DVI port but only if implemented like the Apple ones so that I can get VGA or TV out with a dongle.

I find an SD slot really useful when i'm travelling so I can leave the digital camera cable at home but if your camera uses memory stick or XD or something then this wouldn't be much use.

And I can't get enough USB ports - sometimes i might want to have a mouse, a floppy, a memory stick, a printer and a hdd attached depending on what i am doing.

[christopher_wolf]

Mmmm, it seems as if USB ports seem to be the most in-demand ports; I wouldn't, however, put too many on a T Series machine. They all draw power; the more stuff you have plugged into your machine, the less your battery life is going to be if those USB devices don't have their own power source. Also, the DVI port implemented like Apple does on the Powerbooks is a great idea; you can get rid of the need to have a physical port for VGA and S-Video, the only downside is that you have to remember to take your dongle with you. Firewire would be nice, yet I don't think that you would need an SD Card Reader. I would say a USB Stick is enough if you want something like a memory stick.

[SpaRood]

hopefully will the T60 and T60p come quickly available.

[Rose]

I cant figure out how cooling is designed on the T60. Both the vents on the left side and on the back are pretty close each other, meaning both are probably air outlets. Looking at a picture from the T60 tour at Lenovo’s site, one can clearly see an about 30 mm fan though the air intake in the back left corner of the base, just in between both air outlet vents, meaning this is the major air intake and also that there cant be enough room for a CPU or GPU located in that corner near the air outlets.

Anyway the air intake at the bottom is really BAD news. How about a 2000-3000$ laptop that you cant put on your bed? Among all other bad news, this really does it.

[Rose]

also, it does not seem to be any VGA-SVIDEO adaptor available. Probably the T60 VGA-port doesnt support such a thing.

BAD!

[dr_st]

Mmmm, it seems as if USB ports seem to be the most in-demand ports; I wouldn't, however, put too many on a T Series machine. They all draw power; the more stuff you have plugged into your machine, the less your battery life is going to be if those USB devices don't have their own power source.

So? The fact that you have, say, 4 USB ports, doesn't mean that you absolutely have to have 4 power-sucking USB devices plugged in at once, while working on battery. Just the fact that the port is present doesn't reduce battery life, does it? But when I work in desktop mode, I have my keyboard and mouse plugged into USB ports. In the current T-machines, which have only two ports, it means I'm dead. I can not plug in anything (USB stick, portable HD, webcam). 99% of the time when these things are gonna be plugged in I will be on AC power, so I couldn't care less. It doesn't make sense to limit the connectability just so that someone cannot plug in too much battery sucking devices at once.

Firewire would be nice, yet I don't think that you would need an SD Card Reader. I would say a USB Stick is enough if you want something like a memory stick.

Yeah, those card reader slots that occupy PCMCIA slot space are something one could do without. I mean, you can get a PCMCIA-to-anything adapter if you wish. But can you get card-reader-to-PCMCIA, should you miss that extra slot?

[beeblebrox]

AFAIK, I am glad I didn’t cancel my order for my T43p. This far, I don’t se any improvement whatsoever except the fact that it’s dual core and has a less power consuming chipset. When purchasing a laptop for an amount of 3000 $ (in Sweden), you’ve the right to be picky.

Impairments and disappointments.

- The T60 did not feature a DVI port as many requested.
- The T60 still does not feature a Firewireport as many requested.
- The T60 no longer features a S-video out port. I really hope the feature is built in to the VGA port and an adaptor will be available.
- Old Ultrabay devices are not compatible.
- Old power adaptors are not compatible
- Old T4x/R5x series Batteries are not compatible.
- Old docks are not compatible
- Keyboard is not available without the windowskeys. I really LIKE the fact that the Thinkpad keyboard was without them.
- Design seems not as thought out as the one on the T4x series. It looks cheaper, and it seems less efficient from a layman perspective. Especially the navigation buttons (ultranav) seem really boring.
- I DON’T like any buttons what so ever on the front of the laptop. I often sit with my laptop in my lap (hence the word lap-top) and anything on the front side will lead to random activation/deactivation of what ever it is.
- The mic is placed in an awkward, not so well thought out spot?
- It seems to be the same thickness (but heavier??).

In short, I se NO single feature of importance on the chassis that seems improved since the T4x series.

Further comments:

Yet there has been nothing that I have read that supports there will be a p model soon. Also I am not sure about the 256 Mb graphics ram either since ATI has not presented such a card that would be suitable for the T60. The next step up from the FireGL 3200 graphics is the FireGL 5000 and that too has (only) 128 Mb ram. My guess is that T60 will only be available with the X300 card along with integrated graphics just as the T43 and just maybe a T60p with the same graphics as today’s T43s. For anything better, my guess is that you will have to wait for the next T-series.

Also, regarding better venting due to the venting port placed where the parallel port was formerly located. I believe that is actually an air inlet. Although I believe the location of the inlet on the back opposed to in the front as on the T4x series is far more effective in situations where you sit with your laptop in your lap, I don’t believe it dramatically improves overall cooling.

I ran a Knoppix based system antivirus scanner today on my T40p and during system hardware identification it recognized the Firewire port (which does not exist...?).
I did this several times, yes there is firewire. Checked with the R-series mainboard (which is identical to the T-series) and, Wow, there is an R-model that has a firewire port.

Sooo, it seems that all T-Series have firewire built in. But only one R-model has actually the connector at the exterior.

IBM, yeah, that is just great engineering. J
Just like the built-in DVI, which is in every newer thinkpad but you save on those pennies to invest in the connector....

[davidspalding]

... Some people call the color of the iBooks "Heartless White."...

More like "flavourless yogurt," imho. Oh, it's *good* for you, but tastes *bland* and yucky.

I'll take stealth black over Logan's Run style shiny white or neon colors.