R31 Locking up

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Des · #1 Post by **Des** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 12:24 am

I purchased a used R31 last month and the unit has been working fine. Last week I installed a Intel 2200B/G mini pci card in the bottom slot. Now the unit will freeze or lock up when I run anything that is graphic intensive.
If I'm just websurfing it will run fine with no trouble, but if I hit a site with a lot of images or with video it will just freeze. Also, if I view a d/l mpeg file it will freeze. The system also freezes if ocassionally if I d/l a large file.
The unit does not lock up if I view the file after turning the card off through the management software.
Prior to the Intel card I used the laptop with a Linksys G series PCMCIA card with no difficulties at all.
IBM/Lenovo website does list a freeze problem with the 2200b/g card that can be corrected by unchecking a box in the Intel Extreme Graphics 2 option, but the R31 does not have a Extreme 2 driver.

I am using the latest software and driver from Intel for the 2200 card as well as for the video on the R31 (I using IBM's video driver but Intel offered an updated one).
The R31 has a 830M video chipset and I am running Windows 2K sp4 with 256mb of RAM.

The wireless modem I connect to is from Verizon (forget the brand) and I have also tried connecting to my neighbors Belkin with the same result.

I am not sure if it's over heating as it can happen after a few minutes or hours and if I do anything not graphic intense it doesn't happen at all.

Any suggestions -preferably other than switching back to the PCMCIA card.

Thanks.

Des

LtTPfan · #2 Post by **LtTPfan** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 6:13 am

Did you update your system BIOS and embedded controller?

Des · #3 Post by **Des** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 8:55 am

I updated the system BIOS (3.11 I beleive). I'm not sure aboutthe embedded controller though. How do I check that?

Des

#4 Post by **Kyocera** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 6:03 pm

LtTPfan is right in some circumstances you are supposed to update the embedded controller first. Look in thinkpad configuration, system information, BIOS information, your embedded controller version will be there, then check the IBM site to see what the most recent version is.

Des · #5 Post by **Des** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 12:53 am

I checked the embedded controller and it is 02.29.12 FOund the BIOS matrix on the IBM website and under BIOS 3.11 it lists the embedded controller version as N/A. I'm not able to find any other information on the IBM wensite.

Any other suggestions?

The R31 that I have is Celeron Based, 2656-25u

Des

Thane_Bitter · #6 Post by **Thane_Bitter** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 7:23 pm

Hi Des,

If you still have the "ThinkPad Configuration" utility (latest version for the R31 is 1.07), you can check your BIOS and embedded controller version by opening up this utility and then chose "system information" then details off the programs menu bar.
For your information, the most recent BIOS is version is 3.110 (1FETF1WW) which was released back on 2004-11-16. If you have the latest BIOS, your embedded controller should be version 02.29.12
The embedded controller firmware was always released as part of the BIOS update, no standalone version was available. I wonder if there is some sort of conflict with system resources since you have installed the network card. BIOS offers some limited options for assigning resources, it might be worthwhile to experiment with some of the settings.
One other thing, I strongly suggest that you don't run with Intel's driver and stick with the IBM variant. I tried using the Intel drivers once and experienced server system problems (system would crash after login).
Just my 2 cents – hope this helps
Thane

Des · #7 Post by **Des** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 9:34 pm

Temporarily I have switched back to the PCMCIA card to see if I can duplicate the problem. So far everything is stable and that includes running a video in the background while surfing Ebay and NASA's website.

One thing for sure is the bottom of the laptop where the Intel card is installed is certainly much cooler with the card turned off. I am begining to think that it could be a heating issue. With the card on the bottom would vary from warm to very warm - I woudn't say hot.
Above the card sits a control board or an extension of the motherboard and then above that is the HD.

Sometimes I can get the system to lock up when the it is only a little warm on bottom other times it would be when after it got very warm. Like I said the only constant is if I am viewing or moving large files via the net or my home network that would cause a lock up.

When it locks up the cursor will no longer work, the screen freezes what ever is on it and no buttons will work on the keyboard or track point.
The fan will run as needed and the only way I can get the system to turn off is to hold down the power button for about 5 seconds. None of the function buttons will work.

A reboot and everything is fine until the next time I tax the system.

Could it be related tothe 'speed stepping'?

Des

Thane_Bitter · #8 Post by **Thane_Bitter** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:13 pm

Heat in that area is normal, as you have said that area is filled with several power consuming devices. On my own system the access door for the miniPCI bay tends to be quite warm (I am using the IBM High Rate Wireless card (wireless B) - made by Actiontec Inc).
Try getting Mobile Meter (MM)

http://www.geocities.co.jp/SiliconValley-Oakland/8259/ for real-time information of CPU frequencies and system temperatures, and no installation is required.
For a quick CPU stress test do the following (if you have a windows OS): Open up Calculator and make sure it’s in scientific view. Enter “99999999999” and press the factorial button “n!”. This will max out your CPU and if you have MM open you should see your CPU switch up to its highest speed, and its temperature rise. Keep an eye on things and see if your system locks up.
A few months ago another R31 user was having lockup issues due to an overheating system because of dried out thermal paste between the CPU and heat sink. Easy fix if you don't mind disassembling most of the computer, but IBM/Lenovo has the hardware maintenance manuals available for download.
Thane

Des · #9 Post by **Des** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 9:26 pm

Thane_Bitter, thank you for the link and advice. Actually I got a kick out of having my brother do the calculator bit on his computer and watched him turn white as his system ground to a near halt while he had an unsaved project in the back ground.

All fun aside though...
Using MobileMeter and doing the 999999 factorial thing on my R31:
After a short while the CPU temperature rose to 90C and when it hit 98C the CPU speed went down to 800mhz. I got the windows box asking me if I wanted continue, I clicked yes for 3 or 4 cycles. The temperature stayed around 90C and the CPU speed eventually dropped down to 133mhz, but the system never crashed! I did this with both the PCMCIA wireless card and the INTEL mini-pci card and still no crash, lock-up or freezing.

One thing, however, is that as the sytem cooled the CPU speed never increased from the 133mhz point. I rebooted and it still stayed at 133mhz. It wasn't until after a shutdown and restart that the CPU returned to 1.06ghz

Also, I was wrong about playing a video with the Intel 2200 card turned on causing a crash, the video I wasviewing at that time was on my desktop machine, so it was while accessing the network.

This leads me to realize that the system only locks when acessing the network, particularly large bits of data (No pun intended).

Mobile Meter doesn't show anything stange just prior to the system locking. The CPU stays at 1.06ghz, temperature stays around 50C. BTW the hard drive temp never seems to go past 45C.

So, I am pretty satisfied that nothing is overheating. However, I still get these lock ups

Thane_Bitter, I think you might be right that it is a resource conflict (or it could be the card itself, perhaps), right now I have the PCI stuff set to 'auto' in the BIOS. Before I start messing with them I will remove the Intel drivers and try the IBM ones. Actually,I have never used the OBM driver for the Intel card, when the card arrived it had a driver disk with it so I used those and then updated them from Intel's site.

Sorry to be so long winded here but it helps ease the frustration.

Will, of course, post my results/progress.

Thanks again.

Des

Des · #10 Post by **Des** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 2:27 pm

Took some time to experiment with different IBM and Intel drivers as well as a clean install of Windows 2000.

To make a long story short, no changes

IBM's set up didn't like the wireless encryption we use (unles I set up the access software wrong), so I switched back tot he Intel drivers/software.
Still locks up.

Am using the linksys pcmcia card again. Orderd an Atheros (sp?) based card that I am told will work. That should arrive today or tomorrow, so will follw up again then.

Thanks for reading.

Thane_Bitter · #11 Post by **Thane_Bitter** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 6:20 pm

Sorry to hear you had no success with the card.
I have did have an issue once with the drivers bundled with IBM's Access Connections, though I believe there was an issue with that particular version. I have used Access Connections in the past when I was dealing with many different networks and had no issues; however more recently I have switched over to the naive windows system to manage my 3 profiles. I just checked my system and have found that both my network adapters (wired & wireless), and the graphic, USB, and Card bus controllers are all routed through a single IRQ – I find that odd yet this was the way IBM set this system up.

Initially I though your temperatures where high so I conducted a thermal test just to verify, bear in mind that our CPU's are slightly different, however 90C is quite acceptable (my system peaked at 98C when the speed step program forced a lower CPU frequency (733MHz), and increased the cooling fan to its maximum level), my system did not however drop the frequency any lower however. Despite taping over the fan grills, once my system hit 98C, the increase in the fan speed and lower frequency is enough to lower the CPU temperature to 80C. This would last for a few seconds at which time the fan slowed down and the temperature rose again (about 10 seconds) and this process repeated until the CPU load was reduced (i.e. cancelled the calculator operation). Clearly the cooling system does work quite well, since neither of us could reach a temperature whereby the system would immediately shutdown to avoid damage.

What band and what kind of encryption is supported on the Athero card? Right now my card (IBM high rate wireless card) only supports wireless B, and single key WEP (Worthless Encryption Protocol!). Good Luck with the installation!

Thane

Des · #12 Post by **Des** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 9:22 pm

Hi, Thanks your help with this.

Uninstalled all of the previous drivers and installed the new MiniPci card and driver. It's made by TP-Link and is a model 560g.

THings run well and then I got it to lock up the system too when I downloaded and ran a large video (actually copied over from my desktop via the home network).

THis card has nice range though and a lot of nice features. It is also thinner (components on one side only) than the Intel card.

I use WPA-TKIP with passphrase encryption.

So, now I am thinking that it is an IRQ issue.
I opened up the hardware manager and checkd the resources of each device. IRQ 9 has 6 devices on it: MINI Wireless card, PCI Card Bus ,Graphics COntroller, SOundMax Integrated Audio, Agere Modem, and
USB Host.

In the Bios I have the Irq settings set to auto. I don't think that in windows 2000 you can set the irqs.

What's weird is that the PCMCIA cards are on the PCI bus which is IRQ9 but the Linksys card did not cause any lock ups or crashes.

WHen I got this laptop it did not have an antenna or a card in the mini slot. I installed an internal antenna under the keyboard (supposedly designed for this purpose) and then the intel card. This was all after I installed windows 2000 (with all the IBM bios and system updates).

My brother suggests having the card, etc. installed and then do a clean install of w2k. ANy thoughts on if that might 'fix' anything?

I know the Linksys card is no big deal, but I like the idea of having the PCMCIA card free for using with an adapter to transfer pictures from my camera.

I'll leave this card in for now to see if I can narrow down quirks.

--Des

PS. I have another post on the forum for info on upgrading the CPU. Tink I should fix this first or just go for broke?

Thane_Bitter · #13 Post by **Thane_Bitter** » Sun Jan 22, 2006 5:59 pm

Hi Des,

Yes I see what you mean about W2K locking up the resource settings, I suppose you could try other combinations in BIOS if you have not already.
Nice job installing the antenna, an internal setup is much nicer looking then external setup. I know my R31 has a second antenna up inside the LCD panel (left side), however if your card only supports a single antennae lead why bother. The T series and new R models have several antenna built in around the display for Wi-Fi and Bluetooth.
Nice to hear your bro is speaking to you (reading back to the calculator incident

), he might be right, as many computer issues have been resolved by reinstalling the OS. If you have the time and the discs it's definitely worth the effort.
Try doing a forum search for CPU information - I think someone else did a CPU upgrade.

Thane

Des · #14 Post by **Des** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 4:09 pm

I made some simple changes to the bios over the weekend. Mostly, I turned off the serial port since it doesnt exist on my R31 and turned off the Parallel port since I don't use it. I also changed the auto config of PCI 1 to a different IRQ (forget now what I put in).

The short of it is the system runs without locking up seemingly with no matter how much I d/l or transfer. So this I see as a good thing. The bad news is that if I run a video clip the system lock up.

So I am blaming the video card for the conflict. If I turn the WiFi off then I can run video. (BTW the new card runs incredible cool to the touch compared to the Intel one).

I saw your response to my processor upgrade post. Thank you. My R31 does not have the firewire port and seems to be series 1. I ordered a chip 'to see'.

I am thinking that after the procesor 'experiment' is finished I will do another clean install of W2K and see if I can get it to configure the IRQs differently. I found some good articles the other night on reserving IRQs during an install. I'll try it and see if this solves the lock ups.
At that time I will also start out using IBMs drivers instead of the Intel one (though Intel's are newer) for the graphics chip.

I recounted and there are 9 devices using IRQ9 on my R31. The graphics and the network being just two of them.

Will, of course, follow up.

Cheers!

--Des

Des · #15 Post by **Des** » Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:13 am

Well I'm about ready to quit!
The processor upgrade has had no ill effects so I am very happy with performance, etc., but I still can not beat this lock-up problem when I use the mini-pci wireless card.

I have reinstalled w2k very carefully adding drivers (using only IBM drivers) and hardware. Have played with the PCI settings in the bios but still the graphics set and the wireless card are sharing IRQ9 along with 6 other devices. Basically no matter what I do the IRQ configurations remain the same. Same end result too, as long as the card is operational I get a lock up when there are more graphic intensive things going one. Turn off the card and everythig is fine. Use a PCMCIA wireless card and everythig is fine...

Could it have anything to do with the antenna I installed under the keyboard? It is threaded through the body correctly and the antenna ends rest in the 'pocket' of the plastic that seperates the keyboard from the mainboard.

I have tried reinstalling windows 2000 using Standard PC power management, since this will allow me to set up the IRQs but I get a page fault error on install. It only installs if I leave the power management to ACPI. I assume this is because of the BIOS. Is there anyway to turn off ACPI from the bios? I didn't see anything (version 3.11)

I'm wondering also now if the problem could be related to power fluctuations. The problem happens with both AC and battery, but what in the Thinkpad regulates power to the Mobo?

I thought about the memory too but they passed tests.

For now I am relegating myself to use the PCMCIA card and have my R31 have a wart on it's side.

Still searching for a solution <[censored] It!>

Des

Des · #16 Post by **Des** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 9:46 pm

I don't mean to dig up this old post, but I want to let anyone reading know that the problem with my R31 locking up when using the mini-pci wi-fi card seems to have resolved itself.
I have only changed two things since my last post on this. First I now use the /PCILOCK command in the Boot.ini for W2K. This command locks the IRQs so that when a new device is installed it the IRQs don't rearrange themselves. (For a better explaination do a Google search

).
Next I installed the latest drivers (came out in June) for the TP-Link mini-pci card I am using. Miraculously the problemn is solved! It's been about a month now and now locks or crashes

So pretty much I think it is a combination of the /PCILOCK switch and a clean install of the wi-fi card that solved my problem.

Thanks for listening.

--Des

led_snapper · #17 Post by **led_snapper** » Thu Feb 01, 2007 7:42 pm

Des, Which wifi card did you get to work in the end as I am looking to install one, plus antenna(s). I found an atheros one on ebay but specs only mention r40's.

As for cpu's pls see the other thread you started which I tagged on to. Am running a SLa7 Mobile Pentium III-M 1.2Ghz which I picked up for £12.50 off ebay. Works very well and nice and cool (in the 40 deg c range idling and 60's cranked up). Used some silver based thermal compound to seat it and that seems to help.

Ian

2656 Pentium III-M 1.2 , 768MB RAM, 60 Gig Hitachi.

Des · #18 Post by **Des** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 9:45 pm

Hi Led_Snapper,

I am using a TP-Link mini-pci card. Not sure of the exact model, but I beleive they don't make this one anymore, however they do have newer models.
I am very happy with this card, it runs relatively cool and I get good performance and battery life.

As for the CPU upgrade, that had gone well and without any issues.

Overall the R31 system works great!

Take care.

--Des

R31 Locking up

R31 Locking up

Which card worked? Plus info on cpu upgrade

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