Waiting for windows Vista?

[atct86]

When will windows vista make it into computers?

Is it worth the wait?

[K. Eng]

Microsoft has publically stated that RTM (release to manufacturers) is July 2006, although the actual Vista launch will probably not be until September or October 2006.

This assumes that there are no more delays...

Worth the wait? I dunno. I've found that XP does pretty much all I want it to do. I've only had it crash on me a few times, mostly due to bad IBM wireless drivers!

On my desktop, XP has not crashed once in the past 15 months.

[turbolium]

they say it should be more stable and optimized
thats the only reason im waiting for it

forget the aero looks waste of time the best looking windows is classic !!!

[snife]

From what I have seen it is mainly cosmetic changes so not really worth the wait - i like it but i am inpressed by bells and whistles, functionality wise I don't think it has much over Win XP.

Knowing the schedule so far, i wouldn't be surprised if the release slips into 2007 so a long time to wait if you need a new machine now.

Any of the new machines will support it when it comes out so it shouldn't be a hassle to upgrade at launch time if you really want it.

[rleo25]

I am very concerned about VISTA. Microsoft officials have announced the hardware requirements to run the full vista capabilities... they are leaning toward the highest video card, chipset, harddrive and display specs...

The problem is that I bought just two months ago a brand new Thinkpad T42 23734WU and it is out!!! UNBELIEVABLE!!! how is that Microsoft passes over business oriented notebooks which until now have had a very graphic low profile? And let me make clear, I am not interested in gaming or any cutting edge visual aplications, my concern is about what will happen when Microsoft ends support on XP forcing industry to upgrade to Vista? Shall we then be forced to spend another two or three grand in behalf of this monopoly interests?

Let's wait until midsummer and see if those "genious" want to loose a considerable part of the market or reconsiderate their actual position, in the mean time I will start getting acquainted with Linux or Mac OS.

[jdhurst]

I wouldn't panic. Yesterday, my Windows 98 virtual box did an upgrade. XP will be around for a while.

Further, Vista brings with it Digital Rights Management. Whatever else that means to vendors, what it means to you and me is that Microsoft will own your computer. Before Vista support is over, they will know about every piece of software you run, be able to have some sort of metering in place to pick your pocket on a monthly basis, and be able to have the police at your doorstep for a single mis-step into illegal downloading. They have said as much in their musings about DRM.
... JD Hurst

[rleo25]

hummmm, that means we will stay by XP ( I received the same upgrade too...) as long as Microsoft decide... but remember our XP supported machines will work with actual sotware forever if we want, the problem is how will they comunicate and transfer such XP made files to Vistas, Longhorns or whatever name they use? Some day... maybe earlier than later, they will print: "No recognizable format..." . I've made my mind, will use this Thinkpad beauty until I can, start saving some bucks for repositioning and keep the actual machine in my legacy collection. By the way, some days ago I almost bought a 760ED still operating in US $ 300 !!! . As Baden Powell (Boy Scouts remember?) once said: Be Prepared!

[GomJabbar]

Before Vista support is over, they will know about every piece of software you run, be able to have some sort of metering in place to pick your pocket on a monthly basis, and be able to have the police at your doorstep for a single mis-step into illegal downloading. They have said as much in their musings about DRM.
... JD Hurst

Maybe this belongs in the "Big Brother" thread.

[PrincipalValiant]

I'm very confident it will run fine on my T23 with a notoriously horrible video card (16mb super savage icx, other specs below). Of course I'm never one for eye candy and don't mind having all the goofy effects disabled.

I wouldn't panic. Yesterday, my Windows 98 virtual box did an upgrade. XP will be around for a while.

Further, Vista brings with it Digital Rights Management. Whatever else that means to vendors, what it means to you and me is that Microsoft will own your computer. Before Vista support is over, they will know about every piece of software you run, be able to have some sort of metering in place to pick your pocket on a monthly basis, and be able to have the police at your doorstep for a single mis-step into illegal downloading. They have said as much in their musings about DRM.
... JD Hurst

That does bother me slightly if there is no workaround, however here in Canada there is little chance we'll get in much trouble from American government action or companies. The most they could do is send our foreign minister a nasty letter, we didn't even deport that Khadar guy, you think they'll deport a software pirate?

[rleo25]

That's not the problem PrincipalValiant, you can hide in the artic and even there Windows power will find you and blowup your computer, having a little luck will disable all your not licensed sofware, that's true Microsoft will become the owner of your computer and thus of your freedom... beware

[DIGITALgimpus]

You only need the high specs for the eye candy.

Otherwise it will scale down to XP like appearance.

[dsvochak]

I'm not sure this is the appropriate place for this, but that's life.

Over the course of time I've read a lot about Longhorn/Vista and there's one thing I don't understand. It's a question that's very important to me and perhaps to others.

Is there any compelling reason for those of us who are happily using XP or W2K to upgrade to Vista?

[ruykava]

jdhurst: i don't think your description of DRM is accurate at all. everything which YOU own will always be yours. buying software/content online doesn't at all make it yours - it only gives you a licence to use it. just like you NEVER own the music on the CD you buy - you only buy a licence to listen to it. this talk of other people owning your computer completely misunderstands the situation. all DRM does it to enforce the licence, which is present today anyway, just harder to enforce.

DRM is already present front-and-centre today anyway. iTunes is completely DRMed. most WM stores are also DRMed. and it's not true that it's a Vista thing. anyway, DRM content doesn't spread to every part of your computer - it is restricted to itself.

dsvochak: i guess there isn't really a compelling reason to upgrade, in the same way i still keep my win 2000 box around and don't NEED to upgrade. but XP is just, well, better. and Vista will be better than XP too. for me, most important will be the re-written network stack. interface-wise, it's definitely got improvements but they aren't that compelling for personally.

rleo25: there should be no problem with older computers running Vista. of course some fancy graphics stuff can't be done, but all core functionality will work perfectly fine. even the Classic interface looks more than nice enough to me.

[leoblob]

The way I look at the OS issue is this... an old OS like WIN98SE is still viable (for the right applications). Most software will still run on it, most new devices still come with drivers for it. WIN2K will be officially supported for at least 5 more years. I would guess that XP should be usable for the next 8-10 years (??) so if you are concerned with Vista, I would think you could put it off for quite a while. Also, this gives you plenty of time to learn Linux, which is what I plan to do.

[dsvochak]

My apologies to leoblob for leaving out W98 (or even PC-DOS 6.3). And thanks for elaborating on my implied point. If you can accomplish what you need to accomplish with what you've got, there's no reason to upgrade. If you can't, or if you just want the latest and greatest, fine.

On the other hand, regardless of ruykava's comments, what appears to be the coming pervasive nature of DRM as it relates to Vista might be a compelling reason not to upgrade.

[jdhurst]

@ruykava: I understand what you are saying about DRM. I also know I only own a license to use. I also am not a software or music pirate - I pay for everything.

What I see, and what I am saying is that vendors are licking Microsoft's boots and using DRM-type technology in their own software. I speculate (of course, this is just my own opinion) is that Vista and the software that runs on it will start or very soon running home to mama checking to see if your usage is appropriate and then informing the authorities in any country about inappropriate use.

In my case, I have an IBM desktop with XP Pro pre-loaded and licensed and an IBM Thinkpad with XP Pro pre-loaded and licensed. I use absolutely every other piece of software on both machines with one license. Most of the time, this is permitted. Some of the time it is not, but I do not feel any urge whatever to pay twice to use once. Vendors are (in the large [80:20 rule]) greedy and would knock over their own grandmothers to rape users for money. This will increase under Vista and in a way that authorities will be part of it. Again, just my opinion, but even Jerry Pournelle has lashed out against DRM.
... JD Hurst

[ruykava]

jdhurst: yup, i see your point, but to me i don't think Vista has got so much to do with DRM-type technology as the vendors themselves.

and any software could call home to mama to check its own validity: i'm not sure why vendors would be licking Microsoft's boots if they did that: they'd just be padding themselves. the decision, and the benefits, lie with the vendor (unless Microsoft gets a cut by helping them uniquely identify each machine via the OS - but again, it is the vendors who want this). the point about software piracy is also a little touchy, because by definition, when you violate the licence agreement you are by definition pirating the software - even if you paid for one copy (yeah, i know, speeding 10mph over the limit is speeding too even though "it's nothing").

perhaps i'm not so worried about this as you because i only ever use one machine at a time. a better solution might be to be able to identify YOU, instead of your machine, uniquely. but i'm not in the tech industry so i guess i can't change stuff like that :p also, Windows Activation is already here (in XP) and has not caused many problems, AFAIK.

i guess we shall wait and see... personally i think vendors are smart enough to know that overly restricting what users can do is a bad way to earn money in the long run, too...

[jdhurst]

After I posted my message, I went to download a file from Microsft (different forum) on my desktop. It want to validate again (prior validation code expired). Validation takes machine information and sends it to Microsoft. Now, they are re-validating again and again. There is no good reason for multiple validations unless they believe machines are doing nefarious things. Trust must be earned, and Microsoft (at the very least) are proving untrustworthy. Be cautious is all I am suggesting.
... JD Hurst

[rleo25]

Your posts are reasonable jdhurst, I agree with them, and help me to work less concerned about these new developments until they begin to affect my perfomance and productivity, surely there will be a lot of options to choose then... (Hope Thinkpad evolves in the right direction)...
Hasta la Vista amigos!

[GomJabbar]

From the link posted be the OP in this thread:
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=19460

....thanks to new Digital Rights Management "features" in Vista, some protected HD content may not play on your new machine. That's because Vista checks your hardware to ensure it's secure and certified, and if it's not, you're basically screwed. There're more irritating DRM "features" in Vista, but by and large this forced obsolescence of some hardware seems to be what rubs most users the wrong way.

JD Hurst seems to have reason for his DRM complaints in Vista.

DRM is what killed DAT. I wonder what Vista will kill?

[ruykava]

i don't really follow the notebookreview article's logic. checks to see if your computer is secure -> forced hardware obsolence? sorry, not seeing it. maybe i'm missing some hoops. as i understand it DRM is mostly software based. also, the article gives no sources at all - like, what EXACTLY happened. being a good student (or at least i was one back in those days) i am inclined to dismiss it as hearsay. still...

anyway, an example of good DRM is http://www.ereader.com/

i bought e-books from them when i was on PC. i then got a Palm, which seamlessly displayed them after i entered my credit card number (which eReader uses to generate their validation code). i then got my new hw6515, and again, after a quick validation i was off and using the books again. in the meantime, i changed my credit card and (after a short online form to fill) there was no problem: every book i bought from 3 years ago until now works with only an update to the software (to take care of the new code). if all DRM solutions are that seamless, i would not be worried. i guess all i'm trying to say is, DRM doesn't necessarily mean the end of the world, or of a huge hassle, or of an invasion of privacy.

[GomJabbar]

i don't really follow the notebookreview article's logic. checks to see if your computer is secure -> forced hardware obsolence? sorry, not seeing it. maybe i'm missing some hoops. as i understand it DRM is mostly software based. also, the article gives no sources at all - like, what EXACTLY happened. being a good student (or at least i was one back in those days) i am inclined to dismiss it as hearsay. still...

I'll give a hypothetical example. As I understand it, the OS, in this case Windows Vista checks to see if the DVD burner you have supports DRM. If it doesn't have the necessary parts to prevent unauthorized burning, then the OS will not let you burn to it. So an existing USB DVD burner that you have may not work with Windows Vista because it does not have DRM (at the Windows Vista level) built in.

[jdhurst]

<snip> ..
Windows Vista checks to see if the DVD burner you have supports DRM. If it doesn't have the necessary parts to prevent unauthorized burning, then the OS will not let you burn to it. ... <snip>

And so this is one of the things at the very heart of the debate. People who are biased, have a vested interest, and are in a conflict-of-interest position will be dictating what you and I can and cannot burn onto a DVD. They do NOT care whether they are right or wrong, and they most assuredly do not want their puny minds cluttered with any facts. They just greedily want your money and mine and fairness does not play any part in the decision.

I am all in favour of paying, and of copyright laws, but this crew of miscreants have yet again won Jerry Pournelle's annual Onion award. And Jerry writes for money - I do not.
... JD Hurst

[v_parthi]

I'll give a hypothetical example. As I understand it, the OS, in this case Windows Vista checks to see if the DVD burner you have supports DRM. If it doesn't have the necessary parts to prevent unauthorized burning, then the OS will not let you burn to it. So an existing USB DVD burner that you have may not work with Windows Vista because it does not have DRM (at the Windows Vista level) built in.

Unbelievable. M$ wants to me throw away my old DVD burner? How can it be possible?

[GomJabbar]

Update: Microsoft Releases Windows Vista Preview

REDMOND, Wash. (AP) - Microsoft Corp. is giving businesses a preview of Vista, the next version of its flagship Windows operating system.
------------------------------------
_Improved user account control to let more workers do things like install printer drivers without being set up for administrator access, thereby limiting such access to those who truly need the higher-level functions. It's harder for attacks to spread on computers that don't have administrator access.

Goldberg said the test is being made available to about 500,000 select customers, and the company plans to release the preview to a broader consumer test audience in its next fiscal quarter, which begins in April.

The Redmond-based company remains on track to have Windows Vista in stores in the second half of the year, Goldberg said. Last week, Microsoft spokesman Lou Gellos said the company hopes to have it on store shelves in time for the U.S. holiday season, which typically begins around Thanksgiving.

I agree that the present "User Account" profile is crippled too much. As far as Vista goes, I am giving a yawn at this point. XP works pretty good.

[Kyocera]

I used to frequent the XP newsgroups when they first came out with XP and there was a lot of the same discussion then about XP as there is now about Vista, did it all come to pass not really. XP is a good OS and I expect and hope Vista will be as good, and when the T60 comes out with vista my order goes in.

[GomJabbar]

Update: What's Inside the Six Windows Vista Releases?

Microsoft will unveil the official Windows Vista version lineup on Feb. 27. While the names of the six core SKUs are familiar, thanks to a recent information leak, some of the specifics regarding the feature list for each variant might catch some company watchers by surprise.

EDITED

[Aroc]

When will windows vista make it into computers?

Appears to be late 2006 by most accounts, but who knows for sure.

Is it worth the wait?

once say, when the functional equivalent to SP2 for XP comes out for Vista, it will be. XP has a number of function enhancements (cleartype, faster boot times, etc) that make it more desirable than 2000 for anotebook computer. Vista like likely incorpate some as well. But it appears that for now some of the features will appear later rather than at product launch. I'm still waiting for WinFS, for example. I have a sneaking suspicion a SQL-based file system will enhance file replication for remote users. But that's just speculation at this point.

[s0larian]

one thing that let me wait for Vista is the improvement and ease of using limited user accounts (which is a pain in XP, i.e. just try to change the time or battery scheme as a regular user). This will be a huge step forward and finally catching up to linux.

[DavidNZ]

Have to say, am watching the development/release of Vista with great interest. It's getting close to the time (say, 12 months from now) when I should consider replacing my X40 with whichever X series is available (perhaps the X61?).

Factoring into that decision is whether I should wait and see just which of the six versions that a) Lenovo ships it with, or b) it should ship with (i.e., will Lenovo put the most basic version on it? Doubt it, but one never knows). Frankly, aero and glass are not that interesting to me (easy to say when I haven't seen it first hand) and would be quite happy with the simple Classic interface (i.e., no Luna XP theme for me). Given the above comments from jd and others, I think I may even delay my purchase well into 2007 once the DRM issues are worked out.

On the other hand, bring on Office 2007, I say. Can't wait for the new version of OneNote and Outlook.