For a non-power user: T42, t43, z60t, or T60?

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Jmmmmm · #1 Post by **Jmmmmm** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 3:45 pm

My girlfriend's pos compaq finally kicked the bucket, so she will need a new computer. I'm not sure if I should tell her to get a t42, t43, z60t, or wait for the new t60. She doesn't really need the cutting edge technology, as she mainly uses her computer to check email, surf the internet, and use word/ppt. So, how low is it safe to go, without having big negative consequences in the next few years?

My main concern is the new windows, etc, and if she will be negatively affected if gets a new computer before the whole dual-core thing.

Between the t42 and t43(and z60t), is the sonoma any more future-proof than the dothan processor? Will there be some things in the future that won't be able to run on the dothan, but will on the sonoma, or is the difference between the two merely speed (which isn't that big of a deal for her)?

Then, between sonoma and the dual core, is buying a sonoma right now shooting yourself in the foot? Buying the dual core means waiting And spending a couple hundred dollars more, at least. So, if having a dual core processor isn't going to be a huge deal in the next ~4 years, I'd like to avoid it.

So, to sum up (for a non-power user):
sonoma that much better than dothan, in the future?
core duo mandatory in the next few years?

christopher_wolf · #2 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 3:59 pm

Well, right now; I would wait and see if I could snag a T6X Series if you are really worried about it being "Future Proof." There is a thread here that states that the T43 is recommended to run windows Vista;

see http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=19095

Either a T43 or a T42 should be future proof enough since they are very similar; how long, though, with the T6X Series out and software makers including Microsoft targeting Dual Core specifically, I don't know.

You might want to get a toned down T43/T42, no Bluetooth, not too many added options, etc, and then upgrade that along the way; you can always upgrade certain features, so you can leave those for future inhancements and beef up the system where it is near non-upgradable. HTH

dr_st · #3 Post by **dr_st** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 3:41 am

sonoma that much better than dothan, in the future?
core duo mandatory in the next few years?

No and no.

amitra · #4 Post by **amitra** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 6:37 am

Its light slim and looks good. the Z60t with the celeron option should cut the deal good. Just add in 512MB of RAM

fschwep · #5 Post by **fschwep** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 8:59 am

"She doesn't really need the cutting edge technology, as she mainly uses her computer to check email, surf the internet, and use word/ppt. So, how low is it safe to go, without having big negative consequences in the next few years?"

There is nothing low about a T42. And Win XP will be around for a long time yet. Just get her a T42 with a minidock so she can plug in a zillion externals, and order some extra RAM (to get a total of 1GB, with which it will do anything, including processing/developing large RAW image files off an 8MP camera, and it blows away a fairly recent desktop graphic designer's Mac cube running OSX). OK so it does not have firewire or widescreen, but a T42 is truly lightweight, it has a terrific keyboard, it runs word/ppt at blazing speed (of course there are much better office programs out there but that's not what this thread is about...), and black never goes out of style.

schmaud · #6 Post by **schmaud** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 11:52 am

Hi, I would go for the T42.

It seems that the t42 is quiter, and holds longer on the same charge ( the t43 batteries are a bit bigger but compatible).
I just would make sure to get a ati 9600 graphic card, some rumours have it, that the 7500 might get problems with vista.

The t43 has further the issue with the ide/sata interface.
For the z woudl only argue the widescreen... In my eyes only usefull if playing DVDs.

the t60 will have some imperfection at start, and is not available right now.

What would you miss on the t42 compared to t60:
- no pc-express cards (if there will be ever a pc-express application which will not be available in cardbus)
- no sata drive, but I gues that ide will stick around fo a while
- no built in firewire (do you got a camcorder which needs it?).

cheers

ralf

christopher_wolf · #7 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 5:28 pm

The batteries for both the T43/T42 are the *same*; there is no size difference or dimensional differences between batteries that ship with T43s and T42s. The only difference is 9-Cell vs. 6-Cell; 9-Cell being a hi-cap version and being about 3 cells larger with a little extension out the back. Also, the PATA-SATA bridge on the T43 doesn't always throw a 2010 Error; it really depends on te HDD you get. See the Thread on this forum for information on that....Although I do not think you will be replacing the HDD on it anytime soon.

I took another look at the Z60t at Office Depot and it seems to me to be a good blend of the features that you are looking for. Having a T43 and being a heavy user of a T42, I can say that there is little to no difference between them when it comes to running the tasks that you specify. The Z60t, I think, will be around as long as the T43s and T42s will be. You don't need to worry too much about Windows Vista as it will only take up a large amount of resources for the GUI if you choose something like the "Aero" interface.

davidspalding · #8 Post by **davidspalding** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 10:49 am

If I understand the proposition here, you want a good solid dependable system for your gf, one that will last as long as the pc loan (if you use one; better interest than using a charge card

).

First, I'd ensure you get one with a 3 year warranty -- not all models do. Upgrade to on-site if she has little patience for problems. Also ... instead of the hottest video or biggest screen, go for a 9-cell battery. If she's like most pedestrian computer users, she'll appreciate the battery runtime more than knowing she has a PCI-express video card or 533 mhz FSB speed.
I think any of the Pentium-M processors (e.g. M740, M760, et al) are sufficiently future-proof for the life of the laptop, or 5-10 years, whichever is longest.
DVD-ROM/CDRW is probably good enough, unless you *know* she wants to burn DVD movies and do DVD-R backups.
512 MB RAM would suffice for light computer use, but adding another stick (512 mb or 1 gb) will make for a happier Windows if she runs an MPEG movie while Outlook is downloading mail, etc., etc. If you know how to install it, getting it after-market will save some dough.
I would AVOID the Z60, primarily because it takes a new, different dock. If you/she decide to get a dock later, you will find a better market for T4x docks cheaper on the eBay and clearance circuit than you will for the new T6x series. Bottom line, there are more used parts floating about for the T40s than for the new Z60s. And the T60 is so new, you're likely to find less "good deals" for them than for 40s.

I have a "So you want to..." guide on Amazon that lists other doodads you might want to get her, but for now, I'd follow suggestions on a T43 or T42. Just about any of the 42s, 43s will be great machines for her.

Happy hunting.

Jmmmmm · #9 Post by **Jmmmmm** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 2:21 am

Thanks for the help guys. I really just wanted some reassurance that recommending a t42/43 wasn't screwing her over in a year.

She decided she doesn't want a widescreen, and she cares more about the price than having 17 processors. So, t's between a t42 and a t43, which one will just depend on which particular model ends up being a better deal.

Right now, though, I think it will be this one:

T42 - 2379RHU
Pentium M 745 (1.8ghz)
14.1 XGA
512mb RAM
60GB Harddrive
CD-RW
Intel wireless 2915ABG
3 yr warranty

$1125

There is a t43 that is essentially the same, but with a 1.73ghz processor, for $1050. However, it only has a 1yr warranty, so I'm leaning towards the t42.

Any other suggestions?

Aroc · #10 Post by **Aroc** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 8:00 am

That's a fine T42. Just get some aftermarket 512MB of ram to bump her up to 1GB, and she'll be set for many years!

Steve007 · #11 Post by **Steve007** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 9:47 am

Jmmmmm wrote:My girlfriend's pos compaq finally kicked the bucket, so she will need a new computer. I'm not sure if I should tell her to get a t42, t43, z60t, or wait for the new t60. She doesn't really need the cutting edge technology, as she mainly uses her computer to check email, surf the internet, and use word/ppt. So, how low is it safe to go, without having big negative consequences in the next few years?

She doesn't need a ThinkPad. Why waste money? Any budget laptop will suit her needs and will last her for a few years at least.

If you are intent on getting her a ThinkPad can't you buy a refurbished T42 or something like that?

Steve007 · #12 Post by **Steve007** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 9:50 am

Aroc wrote:That's a fine T42. Just get some aftermarket 512MB of ram to bump her up to 1GB, and she'll be set for many years!

That's crap advice. What does she need a gig of RAM for? The opening post states she's just an average user so I fail to understand why 1GB RAM is being suggested.

schmaud · #13 Post by **schmaud** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 9:59 am

She doesn't need a ThinkPad. Why waste money? Any budget laptop will suit her needs and will last her for a few years at least.

If you are intent on getting her a ThinkPad can't you buy a refurbished T42 or something like that?

She does need a thinkpad. My understanding is that she wants something trouble free for the years to come. My brother is currently bussy making something usefull out of 3 ~6 year old laptops. The difference in support, funtionality and performance still available between the ibm i-series and teh two other off-brand modles is amazing.

However, refurbished sounds good, I saw a t40 for ~1/2 themoney of a similar t43. I guess in almost all office application the difference in performance is marginal.
If money is really the issue a refurbished t2* might be an option, i just would stay away from the t3* since they are Pentium4 and eat batteries...

cheers

ralf

Steve007 · #14 Post by **Steve007** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 10:45 am

schmaud wrote:If money is really the issue a refurbished t2* might be an option, i just would stay away from the t3* since they are Pentium4 and eat batteries...

cheers

ralf

A refurbed unit is the way to go I think. If he gets some sort of warranty with that then that's even better. His girlfriend clearly doesn't need anything cutting edge or high-end so buying a new ThinkPad is madness (unless he can get a very good deal on a new T42...).

Jmmmmm · #15 Post by **Jmmmmm** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 12:54 am

She wants a thinkpad because they are thin, light, and (above all) durable, which is important because she will carry it around a decent amount in her PhD program. This computer needs to last her several years.

And while she usually does basic things, that doesn't mean she shouldn't get a computer that allows her to do something more demanding if she needs or wants to. I don't see what's so horrible about getting something that she may not use to its absolute full potential. A little overkill isn't going to hurt anyone; we're not playing the price is right here.

A refurbished computer would be fine, but they only have a 3-6 month warranty, which is not upgradable. So....not going to work.

christopher_wolf · #16 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 1:04 am

Well; what is it that She foresees doing on it? I can imagine quite a few things that either a T43, T42, or Z60t could do quite easily. Between those three, it is a bit difficult to decide; so...Perhaps it is best to present those options to Her and see what She *likes* as the "Need" part has been taken are of once a suitable combination of all three that meet minimum requirements has been acquired.

Aroc · #17 Post by **Aroc** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 10:34 am

Steve007 wrote:so buying a new ThinkPad is madness

It not madness at all. How else do you get a 1-3 year warranty backed by the manufacturer? All of the refurbed units only come with 3-6 months of Lenovo factory warranty. And it is not possible to extend it from what I have seen. Personally I would not buy a notebook I expected to use for more than a year without a factory warranty of equal length. Notebooks are simply too fragile and the repairs too costly for me to risk it. The likelyhood of needed service is usually pretty high. But it's a gamble either way. Ever price a motherboard replacement (non-ebay)?

If he gets some sort of warranty with that then that's even better.

. 3 year warranty is better. And no, a Mack warranty doesn't count.

I think it's madness to spend more than a couple hundred dollars and not get a substantial factorywarranty for a notebook.

Yes, but a 3 year warranty is better. I believe

Zak · #18 Post by **Zak** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 2:51 pm

Aroc wrote: I think it's madness to spend more than a couple hundred dollars and not get a substantial factorywarranty for a notebook.

Yes, but a 3 year warranty is better. I believe

That's a great way to guarantee that something major will fail in 3 years and 1 month.

davidspalding · #19 Post by **davidspalding** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 5:52 pm

Get the one with the 3 year warranty. 1 GB ram can be handy, because with all the utilities that my T43 came with, boot-up RAM use is usually up to 375MB or so, and that's with NAV removed. Add Outlook, IE, one or two other little apps (Ad-Aware, Yahoo Messenger or Trillian, Windows Media Player), and 512 MB gets gobbled up right quick. Might not slow down much with a fast processor, but....

IN all, if money's REALLY tight, sink the extra $70 against an on-site warranty upgrade. If she doesn't get the 9-cell battery, consider a second AC Adapter (one at home, one in the bag; I hate coiling up mine and putting it in and out of my bag all the time). Other than that, that T42 will do her fine for at least 3 years if not 5.

And btw, imho you are a Good Boyfriend for shopping for a high quality laptop for her, rather than just, "Aw heck, we can get you a Dell or VAIO, or some other thing for $800, you'll be fine" like some suggest. Hope she values her bf as much as she'll enjoy her TP.

snife · #20 Post by **snife** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 6:06 pm

I find it hard when recommending laptops for my friends and family. I love ThinkPads and I truly think they are the best on the market but when i know all they are going to be doing is web surfing and typing it is hard not to recommend a budget model.

I couldn't use them (not least due to no trackpoint) but I doubt some people would feel the benefit of a ThinkPad and if a £400 machine is unfixable after a couple of years then so what - buy another one with the money you have already saved on the original purchase.

However, if money is not an issue and you want it sorta futureproof (read: can run vista properly) then the T42 and T43 with the ATI graphics would be a good choice.

The Z60t is a judgement call - you either want widescreen or not, if shes interested in that for watching movies and stuff then go for the Z60t, if not stick with T. The X41 Tablet might be worth considering also, its not the fastest but she might appreciate the tablet form for taking notes in lectures etc - remember to consider your cd drive options though (most likely USB). Both should run Vista I think but not with all the nice looking GUI enhancements.

davidspalding · #21 Post by **davidspalding** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 1:15 am

Concur with that, but for my money the terms "future-proof" and "budget model for $200 less" are mutually exclusive. Two different buying rationales. Just my 2wo cents.

ddutta · #22 Post by **ddutta** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 2:18 am

I would get a CTO T43 or a T42 with ATI 9600, XP home, CDRW-DVD, 60-100GB 7200rpm and 256MB. I would buy an extra gig from newegg.

Aroc · #23 Post by **Aroc** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 10:18 am

Zak wrote:
Aroc wrote:Yes, but a 3 year warranty is better. I believe
That's a great way to guarantee that something major will fail in 3 years and 1 month.

I fail to see how you are able to use the word "guarantee," at least I don't see how you arrived at it statistically. But I do see your sarcasm. And to oppose that fear, one can order and even longer warranty (4 or 5 years).

The real point here is that none of these options are available to refurbished units.

davidspalding · #24 Post by **davidspalding** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 1:49 pm

BTW, Jmmmmm, if there is ANY chance the gf might want to import video from a videocam and use Windows Movie Maker, or Premiere Elements like I just bought, it is advisable to get a model with a 7200 rpm hard drive. I learned the heard way ... and when I'm 20 minutes into capturing a 60 minute tape, I get a lock up ... blamed on the ATI drivers, but I only have a 5400 rpm drive. YMMV. But I would file this under "future-proof" as in "what might we use the laptop for 2 years from now?"

nosaku · #25 Post by **nosaku** » Sun Jan 22, 2006 1:32 pm

Jmmmmm wrote: T42 - 2379RHU
Pentium M 745 (1.8ghz)
14.1 XGA
512mb RAM
60GB Harddrive
CD-RW
Intel wireless 2915ABG
3 yr warranty

$1125

I have just got this got the T42 of the same configuration and model number on 19th Jan 2006. It's really good. I have actually purchased a T43 and returned it back for refund, becuase of it's heat and lot of fan noise. And then purchased the T42. It's really silent and runs cool.

I use the laptop more for word processing stuff and my usual Java programming stuff and is good for both. Also I am currently using T41 and the T42 seems to nearly as cool as T41.

You may need to download the "Software Installer" once you buy the machine. And then install all the latest drivers etc. It's good. This program came by default with T43 but we need to download separately with the T42.

Good points:
1. Great keyboard.
2. Good trackpoint (but the rubber track ball I got was not so good as that of my old T41)
3. Good screen for usual office work. So-so graphics performance. I need to yet see some DVD stuff on it, and then I will post my comment on this. No dead pixels. Really great.
4. Light weight. I see that this T42 was of lesser weight than the T43 I originally ordered.
5. Wireless works out of box. Great. But I really don't know what is ABG

. I have a Timewarner broadband connection and a DLink router. It immediately conneted. Great.
6. 3-year warrany. Wow. But need to see if it is valid in India or not. Because this machine is for my brother in India.
7. But the price I paid is $1499, plus Kansas taxes, as I purchased it from Lenovo.com. I got a free laptop carry case and cable lock (still need to receive them).

aabram · #26 Post by **aabram** » Sun Jan 22, 2006 1:47 pm

Steve007 wrote:
Aroc wrote:That's a fine T42. Just get some aftermarket 512MB of ram to bump her up to 1GB, and she'll be set for many years!
That's crap advice. What does she need a gig of RAM for? The opening post states she's just an average user so I fail to understand why 1GB RAM is being suggested.

On the contrary, regular users usually need more RAM than us, powerusers, who know how to tweak their comps. I could streamline WinXP on my old 128MB X20 down to around 96MB usage whereas regular user (previous owner, in my case) would have it swapping already at login. My T42 does 150-160MB memory usage after starting and that is with some of my development stuff already loaded whereas my girlfriend's laptop boots up with ~200MB loaded with various tchotchkes and that is before actually loading any productivity tools yet.

Average users never clean up startup or registry run keys to avoid loading stupid updaters, helpers, speedloaders and other crap that any installer forces down their throats without telling them.

I'm certainly more productive on, say, 256MB system than my gf or my computer-ignoramuses colleagues. That's not putting them down, that's just stating the facts, plain and obvious.

aabram · #27 Post by **aabram** » Sun Jan 22, 2006 2:18 pm

As for buying/advising for somebody else - it's a tricky business. Tastes are different and so are the needs. I gave my gf an X30 and she absolutely loves it. While at first she was "umm, ok, laptop is a laptop" she has started to appreciate the thinkpadness of it now and wouldn't trade it for anything other.

However, on the other hand, one friend who I recommended buying T40 (great value, brand new, decent performer), has not been so enthusiastic about it. While she loves the black and business look she complains about having just 2 USB ports ("I want to use a mouse AND two memory sticks at same time!"), she doesn't use the nipple (the greatest invention since sliced bread, for me) and she would like to have separate WiFi button so she could "really switch it on or off". She used to have Fujitsu-Siemens budget model before and she was quite content with it, she just had to give it back at work and decided to buy her own. She doesn't use Access Connections (another contender for sliced bread's position), she doesn't appreciate the automatic updater etc. While I tried to give her a good advice I feel that ThinkPad is somewhat wasted there and also that she'd proabably been happier with a different laptop, perhaps.

So yeah, finding out other persons needs should come foremost, let your personal ThinkPad fandom come second or third. Would she be happy with keyboard (T4* don't have win keys) or port layout, would she be happy with the screen? Can she pick it up comfortably with one hand? Can she carry it conveniently the way she wants: do sharp corners bother her; will her figernails slip into the dock port or something? These are the questions you should be asking yourself, not whether to go Sonoma or Dothan, that is absolutely about 10th grade problem in importance scale, not 1st grade one.

For a non-power user: T42, t43, z60t, or T60?

For a non-power user: T42, t43, z60t, or T60?

I guess go for z60t

I woudl take the t42

Re: For a non-power user: T42, t43, z60t, or T60?

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