S- Video

Message

w0qj · #31 Post by **w0qj** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 12:11 am

I value my T42s for these reasons:
a) no problem whatsoever when upgrading hard drives
b) S-Video output...

Pls see other posting for more info:
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... 25&start=0

Author = w0qj

"If you can afford it (means buying DVD Authoring software as well), try out:

Pinnacle System's hardware connects to your USB 2.0 port:

Studio-700 USB: both Output & Input for S-video, and composite.
http://www.pinnaclesys.com/PublicSite/u ... ion+10.htm

Studio-500 USB: only Input for S-video, and composite (for capturing video/sound signals only).
http://www.pinnaclesys.com/PublicSite/u ... ion+10.htm

I got the Studio-500 USB, since my T42 already has a S-Video output."

donking! · #32 Post by **donking!** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 1:46 am

I don't understand why I would want this Pinnacle System thing, just for S-Video. There are a number of much less expensive, simpler, VGA to S-Video convertors that I and others have posted in this thread. What's the advantage to this Pinnacle thing?

noetus · #33 Post by **noetus** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 7:57 pm

VGA -> S-Video not supported in hardware on T60.

ajazzman · #34 Post by **ajazzman** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 8:28 pm

noetus wrote:VGA -> S-Video not supported in hardware on T60.

Statement or fact?

noetus · #35 Post by **noetus** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 5:01 pm

As far as I know this is a fact. Some notebooks, e.g. some of the older Powerbooks, support S-Video through the VGA port, and Apple supplies a special adapter to make this work.

There are generic VGA->S-Video cable adapters available that work like the Apple adapter works, but these require the video card to be wired to provide an S-Video signal through the VGA port. Not all laptops are wired this way, even those with video cards that are capable of providing an S-Video signal. Unfortunately, it looks like the T60 is NOT wired this way. To get confirmation of this, check the Lenovo website for information on which laptops support TV-out. The T60 is not listed (though the Z60 is). However, it would be easy for anyone reading this who owns a T60 to check, as the adapters are cheap at about $5. However, I'm pretty sure you will find no S-Video signal at the VGA port, as this kind of capability is not mentioned anywhere on IBM/Lenovo's site (or anywhere else).

For those laptops that do not support TV-out through the VGA port, it is possible to buy a converter that will convert the VGA signal to an S-Video signal (converting the Red-Green-Blue signal to Chroma-Luma signal). Note the difference between a VGA->TV Out adapter and a VGA->TV out converter. Unless you are able to open up the T60 and wire the S-Video out on the graphics card to the VGA port yourself, it requires a converter. Converters, obviously, are more bulky and expensive. A good option is the AverMedia Quickplay which is USB powered and costs about $70 (£40 in the UK). There is another USB-powered converter from SmartHome that costs about $100. Also available is a portable but AC powered converter for about $110. AverMedia also makes an AC powered converter which costs about $140. Finally, there are desktop semi-professional scanning converters such as this one from $160 and up. There are loads of these on the market. A good quality one can cost upwards of $5000.

Unfortunately, these converters, especially the portable USB-powered ones, all suffer from a noticeable degradation of signal quality when compared to the S-Video signal that comes direct from the built in graphics card. There is a reason why good desktop scanning converters cost more, typically a lot more, and take more room.

It is also possible to convert VGA (RGB signal) to composite signal (for a TV antenna connection), using a simple RF modulator, which is a cheaper solution but suffers further signal quality degradation. You can build one yourself.

It is possible that Lenovo will respond to consumer demand and supply future models of T60s with TV-out enabled, either through the VGA port or through a built-in S-Video port (which is more likely).

See here, here and here for further info on VGA->TV conversion.

#36 Post by **GomJabbar** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 7:16 pm

Great write-up noetus

own6volvos · #37 Post by **own6volvos** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 3:11 am

noetus wrote:words

The TV-out guide on IBM's site is more of a guide for "dumby's" and nothing more. That is just dealing with the svideo or composite video ports on the outside of the laptop, and enabling them that way.

I think this issue will only be closed once one of us tries it out, and then we should go from their

Mine comes end of march, I will find out then

#38 Post by **GomJabbar** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 7:18 am

own6volvos wrote:The TV-out guide on IBM's site is more of a guide for "dumby's" and nothing more. That is just dealing with the svideo or composite video ports on the outside of the laptop, and enabling them that way.

I think this issue will only be closed once one of us tries it out, and then we should go from their

The TV-out guide on IBM's site does not include the T60. I wonder why?

Enabling TV-Out - ThinkPad General

Tabook.pdf - February 2006 - Version 303 for the T60 wrote:Ports Three USB 2.0 / external DB-15 monitor / infrared (4Mbps) / RJ-11 (modem) / RJ-45 (ethernet) /
no keyboard, mouse, serial ports, parallel port, 1394, or S-video (use USB)

The quote above clearly shows that for S-Video, use USB - yet there are no USB adapters listed on IBM/Lenovo's site that anyone has been able to find. There are acceptable S-Video IN to USB adapters available, but S-Video out adapters are really VGA to S-Video OUT converters that are ungainly. noetus makes a good point above regarding VGA->S-Video, that it's not likely to work with the T60 (at least with the models shipping at this time).

I think this issue will only be closed once Lenovo comes up with either a (1) S-Video port on the T60, or (2) VGA to S-Video OUT option on the T60 like Apple, or (3) a USB to S-Video OUT adapter (if one can really be made).

own6volvos · #39 Post by **own6volvos** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 1:16 pm

GomJabbar wrote:
own6volvos wrote:The TV-out guide on IBM's site is more of a guide for "dumby's" and nothing more. That is just dealing with the svideo or composite video ports on the outside of the laptop, and enabling them that way.

I think this issue will only be closed once one of us tries it out, and then we should go from their
The TV-out guide on IBM's site does not include the T60. I wonder why? Enabling TV-Out - ThinkPad General

Tabook.pdf - February 2006 - Version 303 for the T60 wrote:Ports Three USB 2.0 / external DB-15 monitor / infrared (4Mbps) / RJ-11 (modem) / RJ-45 (ethernet) /
no keyboard, mouse, serial ports, parallel port, 1394, or S-video (use USB)
The quote above clearly shows that for S-Video, use USB - yet there are no USB adapters listed on IBM/Lenovo's site that anyone has been able to find. There are acceptable S-Video IN to USB adapters available, but S-Video out adapters are really VGA to S-Video OUT converters that are ungainly. noetus makes a good point above regarding VGA->S-Video, that it's not likely to work with the T60 (at least with the models shipping at this time).

I think this issue will only be closed once Lenovo comes up with either a (1) S-Video port on the T60, or (2) VGA to S-Video OUT option on the T60 like Apple, or (3) a USB to S-Video OUT adapter (if one can really be made).

You might be missing the point. That page describes what to do IF your thing has a plain jane svideo port on the side. We already know it doesn't. Case closed. What we don't know is if a VGA to Svid adapter will work.

USB Svideo inputs are really simple to deal with.

USB Svideo outputs on the other hand are not. You basically need a mini video card for handle all of the acceloration, because it is going through the USB bus now, and not through the video card. To get acceloration for movies and whatnot, you are going to need a direct tie in to the video card, and right now the only thing is through the vga port. Hopefully it works, since it is more of the video gpu handling it, over IBM's design. Might be a firmware moddable thing if the T60 does not support it out of the box.

donking! · #40 Post by **donking!** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 3:50 pm

GomJabbar wrote:I think this issue will only be closed once Lenovo comes up with either a (1) S-Video port on the T60, or (2) VGA to S-Video OUT option on the T60 like Apple, or (3) a USB to S-Video OUT adapter (if one can really be made).

I've said this before, but I'm still baffled why Lenovo didn't at least wire the S-Video into the VGA port and provide a simple dongle type solution (as people are discussing).

I mean all, ALL, of the video cards used on the T60, including the Intel integrated graphics, support S-Video. So, S-Video is just a latent capability sitting there in the computer but not being used (i.e. wired into any port). Am I missing something?

This is true of DVI as well.

I understand there may not have been room for another port on the sides or back of the notebook. And that use of space is a difficult engineering question. But that's no excuse for not going the dongle route. I'd be pretty happy with that.

To me it seems really cheap and lame and frankly LAZY on Lenovo's part. They really should do the all in one DVI port solution that Apple put on the MacBook. How much can it really cost to wire in a function that already exists in the hardware on the notebook? How much of an engineering feat would that be?

If the T60 is their flagship notebook, Lenovo should want it to be as capable as possible, to project competence in every direction, instead of strangely lacking ports that many cheap not well made notebooks have. It should be promoting this capability, not posting confused notes in it's specifications about USB solutions that don't exist.

#41 Post by **GomJabbar** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 6:32 pm

Maybe it's Lenovo being lazy, or more likely cheap, to shave a few dollars off of the cost of the laptop. I have a feeling that Lenovo doesn't think the S-Video port is all that popular in the T-Series notebooks.

Let's prove them wrong

own6volvos · #42 Post by **own6volvos** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 7:13 pm

GomJabbar wrote:Maybe it's Lenovo being lazy, or more likely cheap, to shave a few dollars off of the cost of the laptop. I have a feeling that Lenovo doesn't think the S-Video port is all that popular in the T-Series notebooks. Let's prove them wrong

Maybe there is an adapter, and they haven't released the part number or list yet as the laptops haven't been really shipping yet?

Lets hold off on the IBM/Lenovo bashing until someone tries one of the 4 dolalr adapters

#43 Post by **GomJabbar** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 9:52 pm

own6volvos wrote:Maybe there is an adapter, and they haven't released the part number or list yet as the laptops haven't been really shipping yet?

Well, maybe. But I wouldn't hold my breath at this point. Take a look at the T60 Series Options page in Tabook.pdf. Tabook.pdf - February 2006 - Version 303

donking! · #44 Post by **donking!** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:31 am

own6volvos wrote:Lets hold off on the IBM/Lenovo bashing until someone tries one of the 4 dolalr adapters

I don't know, I feel pretty comfortable bashing Lenovo for this now. Let's say the S-Video is wired into the the VGA, but we just won't know until someone tries it.

So Lenovo just isn't telling anyone? Why? It's a feature they should be promoting. Even if most people don't use the S-Video port, it still sends out the message that this is a very capable laptop that has all sorts of things built into it that you might not even think of.

Or maybe Lenovo just doesn't know what the engineers did, in which case they're incompetent.

Whatever the case (no S-Video or S-Video and they're not saying anything) it's not very impressive for me on Lenovo's part.

jeremivw · #45 Post by **jeremivw** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 7:40 am

donking wrote:Let's say the S-Video is wired into the the VGA, but we just won't know until someone tries it.

I don't think that is the case. I'll go out on a limb and say that the VGA port is NOT wired for S-video. Tabook specifically says no S-vid and to use USB (I just wish they had an adapter).

Considering that the T43 has S-vid out, I think Lenovo knows exactly what they are doing (and it sux). Newer Z series laptops are their new "Multimedia" platform and so the S-vid has been removed from the T series and wil now (evidently) be reserved (along with the 3-in-1 card reader and fw) for the Zs.

I don't believe the surface area argument because even the little Xs have S-vid and fw...

donking! · #46 Post by **donking!** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 3:31 pm

jeremivw wrote: I don't think that is the case. I'll go out on a limb and say that the VGA port is NOT wired for S-video. Tabook specifically says no S-vid and to use USB (I just wish they had an adapter).

Yeah, I think you're right. In my post before my previous one, I make the same assumption you make. In my last post, I was just trying to make a hypothetical argument about why, no matter how you look at it, Lenovo is being lame.

jeremivw wrote:I don't believe the surface area argument because even the little Xs have S-vid and fw...

Well, I do think there is something to the surface area argument. I looked really closely at the photos of all sides of the T60 on notebookreview.com review. http://www.notebookreview.com/default.a ... inkPad+T60 It was hard to see where there's more room. I thought the same thing about the X series. But the X has no UltraBay which, even though it's smaller than the T60, frees up a lot of space on the side of the X. The vents for the fan on the T60 could be made smaller, but I don't think that's a great solution. Or the audio and mic jacks could be moved maybe to the front of the notebook, but I don't think that would be so great either. Perhaps the battery could be designed to take up less space on the back? I'm not saying there's no solution. But when I look closely at the current layout, I don't see any obvious unused space.

jeremivw wrote:Considering that the T43 has S-vid out, I think Lenovo knows exactly what they are doing (and it sux). Newer Z series laptops are their new "Multimedia" platform and so the S-vid has been removed from the T series and wil now (evidently) be reserved (along with the 3-in-1 card reader and fw) for the Zs.

Yeah, I made this argument either earlier on in this thread or in another one. People didn't seem to buy it. But it does make sense to me that Lenovo is trying to differentiate the Z series, as a multimedia platform, from the T series, by leaving out the S-Video. More lameness.

jeremivw · #47 Post by **jeremivw** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 4:31 pm

donking! wrote:I thought the same thing about the X series. But the X has no UltraBay which...

That is a very good point. I didn't think about the X having no optical drive...

dem107 · #48 Post by **dem107** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 5:23 pm

The HP Compaq nw8440 Mobile Workstation has the same ATI FireGL 5200V card as the T60p and has a s-video out connector.

So Lenovo didn't save on hardware costs, just a connector.

The sad thing is that the brochures on the Lenovo site still say the T60 and T60p have s-video connectors.

T60p:
http://www5.pc.ibm.com/us/me.nsf/webdoc ... SEN-01.pdf
and T60:
http://www5.pc.ibm.com/us/me.nsf/webdoc ... SEN-01.pdf

wez312 · #49 Post by **wez312** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 11:31 pm

dem107 wrote:The HP Compaq nw8440 Mobile Workstation has the same ATI FireGL 5200V card as the T60p and has a s-video out connector.

So Lenovo didn't save on hardware costs, just a connector.

The sad thing is that the brochures on the Lenovo site still say the T60 and T60p have s-video connectors.

T60p:
http://www5.pc.ibm.com/us/me.nsf/webdoc ... SEN-01.pdf
and T60:
http://www5.pc.ibm.com/us/me.nsf/webdoc ... SEN-01.pdf

I KNEW I saw somewhere that the T60p had S-Video out when I bought it I KNEW it!

I just ordered one of the five dollar VGA->SVideo Converters last Friday so it should be here tommorrow or the next day. I will give it a try ASAP and let you know what happens. I really hope this works.

My last laptop was an old Dell 2600 and lacking in the Svideo department as well. It would be really nice to have this feature though.

And I really don't want to sepnd $80 to get a USB/VGA solution when this is a feature that is just sitting in my graphics card and not implemented. Especially since the laptop was about $2000

vqtran9 · #50 Post by **vqtran9** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 2:54 am

wez312 wrote:
dem107 wrote:The HP Compaq nw8440 Mobile Workstation has the same ATI FireGL 5200V card as the T60p and has a s-video out connector.

So Lenovo didn't save on hardware costs, just a connector.

The sad thing is that the brochures on the Lenovo site still say the T60 and T60p have s-video connectors.

T60p:
http://www5.pc.ibm.com/us/me.nsf/webdoc ... SEN-01.pdf
and T60:
http://www5.pc.ibm.com/us/me.nsf/webdoc ... SEN-01.pdf
I KNEW I saw somewhere that the T60p had S-Video out when I bought it I KNEW it!

I just ordered one of the five dollar VGA->SVideo Converters last Friday so it should be here tommorrow or the next day. I will give it a try ASAP and let you know what happens. I really hope this works.

My last laptop was an old Dell 2600 and lacking in the Svideo department as well. It would be really nice to have this feature though.

And I really don't want to sepnd $80 to get a USB/VGA solution when this is a feature that is just sitting in my graphics card and not implemented. Especially since the laptop was about $2000

Hate to burst your hopeful bubble, but as mentioned in previous threads, those VGA to S-Vid dongles don't work - the S-Vid signal is sadly absent from the VGA port. It's a disappointing state as I paid $1300 for a premium laptop, and it's missing a basic feature that laptops half its price has. Worse yet, the video card worth some hundred some odd dollars has the feature wired in and its sitting there unused due to Lenovo's penny pinching and / or money grubbing marketing dept. trying to push the Z series. <gag>

wez312 · #51 Post by **wez312** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 6:44 am

Hmm...it seemed reading through this thread that everyone was unsure as to whether or not the Svideo cable worked and they were waiting to hear from someone who had tried it out.

I guess I was wrong though?

laundromatt · #52 Post by **laundromatt** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 9:34 am

wez312 wrote:Hmm...it seemed reading through this thread that everyone was unsure as to whether or not the Svideo cable worked and they were waiting to hear from someone who had tried it out.

that was my impression as well. has anyone actually tried it out?

vqtran9 · #53 Post by **vqtran9** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 12:04 pm

laundromatt wrote:
wez312 wrote:Hmm...it seemed reading through this thread that everyone was unsure as to whether or not the Svideo cable worked and they were waiting to hear from someone who had tried it out.
that was my impression as well. has anyone actually tried it out?

I have - it doesn't. At the very least, it doesn't on the 2623-D6U.

dem107 · #54 Post by **dem107** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 11:10 am

Just for fun I bought a VGA to Video TV/S-Video Adapter Cable on ebay. It doesn't work. I tried both the composite video and S-video but there is no signal. Apparently, my T60p (2007-W2T) isn't wired for it.

Scratch · #55 Post by **Scratch** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 1:25 pm

If the ATI card is wired for it; is this just a driver issue?

Do the Omega drivers for the 5200 support the S-Video out through the dongle solution?

Just letting my ignorance show.

wez312 · #56 Post by **wez312** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 6:19 pm

I have the 5200 and a dongle but no Svideo tv or anything to hook it up too

Kind of a bummer. I won't have an Svideo TV until I get back to college in a month or so.

Kamika007z · #57 Post by **Kamika007z** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 9:22 pm

If this laptop has a 3 in 1 card reader and S-Video, it's perfect. Also a 14.1 IPS FlexView as well.

I just hope when the T61's arrive, they can take care of this issue.

dem107 · #58 Post by **dem107** » Tue Aug 08, 2006 2:01 pm

I found a somewhat of a solution for the missing s-video on my ThinkPad T60.

The RealVision NoteTV-Pro from Deltron Technology (http://www.deltrontech.com/PCMCIA/VGA2TV/NTVpro.htm) fits in the PCMCIA slot and has a dongle that connects to the VGA connector. The dongle also has a s-video and composite output.

It's small enough that I don't mind carrying it around in my bag.

Deltron seems to have discontinued it, but it the NoteTV-Pro is available on eBay occassionally. I paid about $40 for mine and it works great, even with Windows XP.

fongj · #59 Post by **fongj** » Mon May 07, 2007 3:42 pm

I got a NoteTV-Pro (off eBay) for my X60T and it works perfectly!

Splaktar · #60 Post by **Splaktar** » Mon May 07, 2007 5:34 pm

Yeah, this really makes me sad as my old T40 has S-Video and I used it fairly often.

Thanks for the ideas for work arounds and the known attempts that failed. They will be helpful.

S- Video

VGA to Video Adapter Cable Doesn't Work

PCMCIA VGA to S-Video/Composite Scan Converter

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