No S-Video, no serial, no firewire, no parallel port

[onix]

Has Lenovo gone cheap on us? I wouldn't be complaining if they had a DVI or an HDMI out on the T60's. Any idea if future models will incorporate new ports?

[Rose]

There is an Ultrabay slim Serial and Paralell port device for the ?60 series. FRU is 40Y8121. If that might be of interrest.

[Aroc]

Until most business front projectors offer DVI and HDMI, etc as an input, I don't see an overwhelming need since the 15pin VGA port would likely be jetissonned to make room. how else are you going to give that PowerPoint presentation to your sales customer or the board of directors?

In the meantime, it would be nice to see ports like these included with the new docking stations. Since most of the time (for the time being) you're going to need access to these ports while on your desk, right? Hence docking station.

I just dont quite see the critical mass needed for digital display interface while on the road. I'm just thinking of the Thinkpads traditional customer, here. I think once we see the ports on the projectors (or plasmas) in board rooms everywhere using digital inputs, you'll then see them on thinkpads.

Granted the ideal solution would be to off some form of digital input, and supply and adapter or dongle for analog VGA (like some PC display adapters do). But I don't see your basic powerpoint junkie going for that. The converter is probably too easy to loose, break, or be forgotten. And sadly I see Lenovo siding with them and not _us_ for the time being. So I don't think this is simply a matter of being cheap. Lenovo (or previously IBM) is just catering to what their median customer wants.

[snife]

As mentioned previously, the s-video is a sad loss but when you see the system you will see that there really is no space for it.

Very few people use serial or parallel ports these days - i know some still have parallel devices and some need serial for server stuff but these people are few and far between, I think that the ultrabay option is a very intelligent solution for these people, I got another USB port so that keeps me happy (although I would like 4).

I know there are some firewire enthusiasts and I appreciate that it (800) is better for things like video but it never really took off out of japan and with even apple dropping it on a lot of their products I can already hear the final nails getting hammered into it's coffin - again another port that wouldn't really be used by 98% of the population.

[FRiC]

There is an Ultrabay slim Serial and Paralell port device for the ?60 series. FRU is 40Y8121. If that might be of interrest.

Does anyone know if this will work with other ThinkPads? If not, T60, here I come... (need notebook with native ports to connect to PLC/HMI devices.)

[donking!]

As mentioned previously, the s-video is a sad loss but when you see the system you will see that there really is no space for it.

I don't really buy the there's no space excuse. They could have integrated s-video into the vga port and provide a dongle (like Apple did with the MacBook DVI port). In fact, they really should provide an integrated DVI, VGA, S-Video port like on the MacBook. It's kind of lame to skimp this way on such a high end system.

There is an Ultrabay slim Serial and Paralell port device for the ?60 series. FRU is 40Y8121. If that might be of interrest.

Again, it just baffles me. How about throwing the S-Video in there? How about some sort of S-Video solution?

[darrenf]

There is an Ultrabay slim Serial and Paralell port device for the ?60 series. FRU is 40Y8121. If that might be of interrest.

Native serial port!? That is quite possibly the coolest move Lenovo has made since the leaving IBM. Someone at that company is still paying attention to customers.

Don't get me wrong. I would rather not have to sacrifice the CD-ROM to get the ports, but finding a laptop with native serial ports is nearly impossilbe these days. For customers that still need them (for PLC programming with legacy apps, for instance) this will be a huge plus.

Given that the ports are speicifically referenced as native ports, I wouldn't expect that this uses the IDE bus connector. Lenovo already had both an IDE and a power interface in that bay in the T4x-- now they add an interface for the legacy ports. I wonder what other accessories the bay will support!

-darren

[darrenf]

I just found a product photo and it confirms that they did indeed add another connector between the IDE and power. No hope of using this in a T4x.

I posted a link but it was too long and messed up the formatting of the thread so I'm deleting the link. Google the FRU to find it if you're interested.

-darren

[FRiC]

Muahaha. There's my excuse to buy the T60.

[GomJabbar]

I agree with you donking!
I want my Maypo - I mean S-Video.

[christopher_wolf]

Muahaha. There's my excuse to buy the T60.

....One has to come up with a *reason* to buy a T60?

I agree with you donking!
I want my Maypo - I mean S-Video.

This is better than Maypo...No, trust me, it really is.

[Likvid]

There is an Ultrabay slim Serial and Paralell port device for the ?60 series. FRU is 40Y8121. If that might be of interrest.

Native serial port!? That is quite possibly the coolest move Lenovo has made since the leaving IBM. Someone at that company is still paying attention to customers.

-darren

Yes that is good, but it's so stupid to remove the serial ports on the Thinkpads.

There are many Thinkpad owners out there including me that work with network engineering in the field and need the serial port to connect directly to the console ports of Cisco routers/switches and other network equipment when working in the field.

To have a USB/serial dongle converter seems very cheap in that situation to be honest and just makes you aggrevated.

[chubes]

Likvid,

Whatever you do, don't buy the USB-->Serial adapter from Belkin. It's was quite honestly the biggest piece of crap I've ever used.

I use the serial port for the exact things you just mentioned as well. Look for the 6500 series switches from cisco switching to a USB console port later this year. Course that won't make you feel any better if you have a ton of 2950 desktop switches for the access layer of your network.

I just keep an old T23 around, that solves my problem.

[darrenf]

Yes that is good, but it's so stupid to remove the serial ports on the Thinkpads.

Agreed. A pox on the house of all laptop makers for that move!

-darren

[FRiC]

....One has to come up with a *reason* to buy a T60?

Well, I just got a R51 recently which I had to give away probably by next week so I'll probably get a R52 or T43. So I definitely need a reason if I want to switch to a T60 so soon.

[K. Eng]

I think the vast majority of people who use ThinkPads probably do not use a serial port. I cannot recall the last time I plugged in any serial port device.

Any engineering of a product requires tradeoffs. In the case of the T series, it just doesn't make sense to include a port that 99.9% of the customer base will never use. Legacy ports add weight and expense to a system, and they also take up space that could be used for USB ports, vents, and other necessary items.

Yes that is good, but it's so stupid to remove the serial ports on the Thinkpads.

Agreed. A pox on the house of all laptop makers for that move!

-darren

[donking!]

In the case of the T series, it just doesn't make sense to include a port that 99.9% of the customer base will never use. Legacy ports add weight and expense to a system, and they also take up space that could be used for USB ports, vents, and other necessary items.

Agreed. But if they can wire things in native with ultrabay options, why not make more use of this? They could offer DVI, S-Video, SCSI maybe, all sorts of things. I think this would make a lot of people happy. And it could make the T60 really cool. Able to satisfy a lot of particular needs. It would live up to the ThinkPad reputation as a serious computer for professionals.

It would really be cool as a mini, portable, port replicator option, with different configurations for different purposes. Even if it wasn't a money maker as a series of options, it could be the sort of thing that would draw a lot of customers in, because the T60 might be the only good solution for their particular needs.

[Ninjak]

I'd pay $200 extra for a built in serial port on a T series, no joke. I hate using those USB-->Serial converters with my old emulators and ICDs.

[Likvid]

I'd pay $200 extra for a built in serial port on a T series, no joke. I hate using those USB-->Serial converters with my old emulators and ICDs.

It's just plain cheap to skimp on the serial port, better if they took away one USB port instead and replaced it with a serial port.

As the largest customers base for the T-series are engineering people i'm a bit surprised that they have followed what the minority of customers had to say.

[snife]

I'd pay $200 extra for a built in serial port on a T series, no joke. I hate using those USB-->Serial converters with my old emulators and ICDs.

It's just plain cheap to skimp on the serial port, better if they took away one USB port instead and replaced it with a serial port.

As the largest customers base for the T-series are engineering people i'm a bit surprised that they have followed what the minority of customers had to say.

i'm afraid you are deluded - firstly a serial port takes up more space than a USB port but mostly 99% of customers would prefer a USB port to a serial port - to be honest legacy ports bug me on a system these days but I think its good that they are offering an option on the ThinkPads for it, some people are never happy though.

[obediah]

How far back do you have to go to even have a serial port in the T series? I have a T40p and T42p and neither have one. I understand how handy a serial port is for some people, but they are in a minority that has been in decline since the early-mid 90's.

I'm perfectly happy to trade in the parallel port for more airflow. The T42p had heat issues, and the T43p volume issues. The parallel port ultrabay is an excellent compromise for reducing heat/sound.

I don't have any firewire devices, and my tv has a VGA in, so I'm pretty exceited about getting the T60p.

[christopher_wolf]

Firewire isn't too much of a big deal; I have seen more and more devices with USB ports than Firewire, the newer iPods don't have FireWire and go with USB 2.0 and I have seen less and less direct firewire applications. The parallel port need not be included for printers any more since a good majority are USB. Connecting various things up in the lab and connecting boards directly to the computer used to require serial, now LabView takes care of most of it using PCMCIA, AT/ISA, USB, even the Parallel port.

I would, however, like to see a DVI port and the S-Video port whilst keeping everything else the same and either 3-4 USB ports.

[DataAve]

I bought mine because it is a "business laptop". Due to the lack of RS-232, I still must use my Dell C600 P3 in the field-must be 5-6 years old (which has the serial port). I program biometric security identification and access control systems along with Routers/DVR's and the serial port is a must. Unfotunatally, the USB to RS-232 or the PCMCIA does not work for me-they are virtual ports.

I can also understand the need for a DVI port and the S-Video port, for those of us who make presentations.

It would be nice if Lenovo would offer these connections as options and until they do, for business, I will sticking with brands that offer these choices. And do not get me wrong, you couldn't pry my Z60M out of my hands-it is one solid, well thought out (from an engineering standpoint) piece of machinery.

[Likvid]

I don't have any firewire devices, and my tv has a VGA in, so I'm pretty exceited about getting the T60p.

It's pretty cheap to not have a DVI port either on a $3000 notebook.

[donking!]

I've been thinking about the fact that people seem to want USB ports more than anything else on a notebook. I believe that's probably true, as people here claim. I see people not even happy with the third USB port added to the T60, wanting a fourth one too.

It struck me that it doesn't make much sense to have all these USB ports though. At least, in lieu of a port like S-Video.

I mean, if people are really hooking up three and four USB device to their notebooks, it seems like in those moments they're not using the notebook as a mobile device. It's probably on their desk at home or at the office with printers, extra drives, etc., hooked up to it.

Now isn't the whole idea of USB that a bizzillion devices can all be wired into one port? So if people need all these USB devices when they're not mobile, why not just use a USB hub? Is it such a big deal if there are already three or four USB devices cluttering up one's desk?

On the other hand, S-Video is actually something one is really likely to need while one is mobile (for presentations) and while one doesn't really want to be carrying around a lot of extra stuff.

If I had to make a choice between a USB hub that I plugged into when I got back to the office (and all it had to do was sit there on my desk) and a gangly VGA>S-Video converter that I have to carry around all the time, well, you all probably know what choice I'd make.

Personally I rarely have more than one USB device connected to my notebook at once. What are people doing out there?

[DataAve]

I usually use the USB for a simple jump drive.

[obediah]

I don't have any firewire devices, and my tv has a VGA in, so I'm pretty exceited about getting the T60p.

It's pretty cheap to not have a DVI port either on a $3000 notebook.

I doubt being cheap has much to do with it. My T42p was $5000 and didn't have DVI either. A DVI port is pretty big, and the T60p doesn't have a lot of extra space. Since VGA is smaller, adapters are cheap and simple, and VGA is more entrenched it seems a reasonable choice.

A DVI port out now wouldn't have HDCP anyway, and would still be obsolete when vista roles out. Who knows how long DVI itself will be around, it's already been all-but-replaced in new consumer goods by HDMI. And the unified video/sound replacement for HDMI is coming.

I guess they could get rid of the usb, network, cards, and ultrabay and have antenna, coax, composite, svideo, component, DVI, HDMI, 13W3 and BNC to cover all situations VGA is a safe, efficient, and flexible solution that balances many different needs - exactly what I would expect from a T series.

The forces behind the s-video decision don't seem as clear. It's much smaller and serves a different purpose than VGA or DVI. VGA->s-video apapters are more complex. My guess would be they figured people didn't use it enough to justify the extra cost for all, or they just couldn't get it to work physically.

[GomJabbar]

It struck me that it doesn't make much sense to have all these USB ports though. At least, in lieu of a port like S-Video.

I mean, if people are really hooking up three and four USB device to their notebooks, it seems like in those moments they're not using the notebook as a mobile device.

Personally I rarely have more than one USB device connected to my notebook at once. What are people doing out there?

My feelings exactly. I use one USB port for an external optical mouse and the other one occasionally for a USB key, and occasionally for a USB printer at work. 'Nuff for me. Give me my S-Video!

[w0qj]

If you can afford it (means buying DVD Authoring software as well), try out:

Pinnacle System's hardware connects to your USB 2.0 port:

Studio-700 USB: both Output & Input for S-video, and composite.
http://www.pinnaclesys.com/PublicSite/u ... ion+10.htm

Studio-500 USB: only Input for S-video, and composite (for capturing video/sound signals only).
http://www.pinnaclesys.com/PublicSite/u ... ion+10.htm


I got the Studio-500 USB, since my T42 already has a S-Video output.

[FRiC]

Personally I rarely have more than one USB device connected to my notebook at once. What are people doing out there?

Well, I do a lot of stuff with PLC and HMI devices, so the Ultrabay native serial/parallel port thingie mentioned previously is really great for me. At the same time, a lot of those HMI software need USB hard locks, and I always have to swap them around constantly with my current ThinkPad's two USB ports, as the hard locks almost never work when plugged into a hub. (Incidentally, I see a lot of engineers now using Dells, since they still have current models with built-in serial/parallel ports and multiple USB ports.)

Of course, S-Video would be nice to have too, I've used the S-Video on my R51 exactly once, when our projector's VGA cable broke and the only other way to get a display was with S-Video.