4th Update: Running a 310ED at 400 MHz with 128MB RAM

[toddyjoe]

As another update before I do a final report, here is the latest installment in upgrading the processor (and memory) on my Thinkpad 310ED.

In today's mail, I received a number of items. First, I received a new IBM AC adaptor. I had interpreted from a few Japanese websites that you could not run an AMD K6-2 at over 200 MHz in a 310ED unless you used a full battery in addition to the stock AC adaptor, or upgraded the AC adaptor to something with more wattage. Because my battery is completely dead (will not hold one second of charge) and new batteries are in the $40 to $50 U.S. range, I went the cheaper route and bought a higher-wattage AC adapter. The new 72-watt adaptor is a replacement for T-series Thinkpads and costs about $25 U.S., nearly half of which was shipping costs. The adaptor is the same 16V as the stock 310ED AC adaptor. However, at 4.5 Amps, it has about twice the amount of available current as the stock 310ED adapter. Rather than waste any time, I plugged the adaptor in to ensure it worked. Then, I put my cheap AMD K6-2 380 (AFK mobile version) into the computer and switched the internal DIP settings on the SW3 box to 400 MHz (66 MHz bus with a 2.0 multiplier, interpreted as a 6.0 multiplier by the AMD K6-2). I left the voltage selector on the minimal 2.17V/2.18V setting discussed in my previous threads. With the new adaptor, the computer turned on, posted and booted at 400 MHz with no problems without any battery pack in place. I verified with Everest software that it was indeed running at 400 MHz. It ran for a few short minutes before locking up. The processor did not feel overly warm so I increased the voltage to the next setting for 2.35V. Again, it turned on, posted and booted but locked up after a few minutes of operation. Many Japanese sites (included one with pics linked in a previous thread) showed 310-series Thinkpads with AMD K6-2 at 400 MHz using the 2.45V setting for stability, so I increased the voltage setting to 2.45V. It turned on, posted, booted and ran fine for at least a half hour before my lunch break was over and I shut it down myself.

Despite my advance concerns that an overclocked AMD K6-2 380 at that voltage might run extremely hot, the processor was not too hot to the touch and was much cooler than a WinChip C6 240 felt running at 240 MHz. I am glad I got the mobile AFK version of the K6-2. I will experiment tonight to see if they computer crashes after longer periods of use at 400 MHz.

Second, I received two new 64MB SO-DIMM RAM memory modules in today's mail. Previously, I had upgraded to two 32MB SO-DIMM modules based on the hardware manual's indication that the maximum memory capability for the 310ED was 64MB. However, my broken translations of some Japanese websites suggested more RAM was possible, so I replaced the two 32MB with the two 64MB modules. I am happy to report that the advertised "64MB maximum" for the 310ED is a hoax. The computer has no problems running with 128MB and both Everest software and the stock Notebook Manager recognize that the computer is running 128MB.

At this point, I suspect I have reached the maximum improvement when it comes to CPU speed given the limitations with the bus and multiplier DIP settings. I am curious if the memory could be pushed any higher than 128MB and, if so, how much. On the other hand, I am EXTREMELY happy right now with the performance I had today. At 400 MHz, the CPU speed is three times the stock 133 MHz of the 310ED; at 128MB, the memory is eight times the 16MB the 310ED came with from the factory. The 310ED felt much, much faster and smoother today than it did when I started. The computer ran my favorite MIDI stuff without a glitch. The complete opposite was true with the original Pentium 133 MMX and 16MB RAM.

I will post a follow-up here if I run into any problems with longer periods of use at 400 MHz. Otherwise, I hope to summarize my overall results with the Winchip C6 240, AMD K6-2 380 and memory increases in a final report sometime soon. Keep an eye open!

[AlphaKilo470]

Wow, you did what I would consider unthnkable with your notebook. However, if 400mhz requires an upgraded AC cord and/or full battery, maybe you'll want to tone things down somewhat. Still, I'm very impressed with that, if the 400mhz cpu works out after extended time testing, your system sounds like it'd be a competent machine for running Windows 2000.

[toddyjoe]

I agree I am probably pushing this little 310ED to the limit at this juncture. On the other hand, my laptop sat unused in a box for the past few years and I have a newer desktop at home. Thus, there is no great loss to me if I burn the old Thinkpad up, which makes it the perfect candidate for gonzo these experiments. All in the name of science. I see 310- and 315-series Thinkpads going for $30 to $50 on Ebay and I have no problem sacrificing my old machine if I can help folks get a $30 400 MHz laptop with 128MB or more of RAM.

Back to the laptop. Last night I had it running for over an hour with the AMD K6-2 at 400 MHz (66 MHz bus and 2.0/6.0 multiplier) at 2.45V. After an hour, the thermal plate under the keyboard felt pretty warm above the processor. However, the touch temperature was nowhere near as hot as the plate got with the WinChip C6 240 running at 240 MHz and 3.2V or 3.3V. In any event, after an hour or so of running the AMD at 400 MHz, the computer continued to consistently turn on, post and boot work but started to act weird. Sometimes it would identify errors with the memory while booting, warning that there was not enough memory to start certain items. Other times it would not let me open the Everest system-analysis software, saying there was an access error in the EVEREST.BIN file. Other times it would not let me open the Briefcase or Windows Explorer, simply ignoring my clicks to open them. Still other times, I would get the dreaded blue "fatal error" warning screen when pushing hard with the more CPU-intensive programs. So I shut the 310ED down for about an hour and tried it again. It worked fine with none of the problems above after it had cooled down.

To get a sense of my current cooling scheme, the stock 310ED fan works but probably needs a cleaning to get the dust out. The AMD K6-2 380 is an AFK mobile version, which runs relatively cooler than the AFR and other versions. On top of the AMD, I am using a thin wafer of copper sheeting that I discussed in the WinChip threads. There is plain white Radio Shack thermal compound spread thinly between the processor top and the copper plate bottom and also between the copper plate top and the laptop's thermal plate bottom. The thermal plate is firmly secured with all of its screws. No extra fans or cooling measures are in place. Perhaps a more elaborate cooling scheme would increase the AMD's long-term performance at 400 MHz but that might be more trouble than it is worth.

[rRobert]

Would you tell me please, the RAM in 310ED is so-dimm sdram, edo-ram, or sdram pc66 , know something about it?

Have you find any bios update? I have Acer BIOS, ver: P55C 150 V2.1 08/26/97 ; I have searched over the internet for a new bios but I couldn't find anything.

[schen]

Thanks a lot for the entertainment value alone if nothing else. This is exactly the kind of stuff that keeps this forum interesting and fresh. I caught your epic at the 2nd installment and went back to read the original one. Very cool! I used to do stuff like this, then I got married, had kids and coach. Now I just get to read about it

[toddyjoe]

Would you tell me please, the RAM in 310ED is so-dimm sdram, edo-ram, or sdram pc66 , know something about it?

Currently, I am using two 64MB modules which are 144-pin EDO SO-DIMM. All of the memory modules I have tried so far (16MB, 32MB and 64MB) have been EDO SO-DIMM.

Have you find any bios update? I have Acer BIOS, ver: P55C 150 V2.1 08/26/97 ; I have searched over the internet for a new bios but I couldn't find anything.

Yes. The version I upgraded to what appeared to be the most recent, official IBM Version 1.24 using the file "sytpa124.exe" from July 28, 1998. The file can be downloaded from the IBM mirror site posted in the sticky thread on the top of this Legacy forum. Coincidentally, the BIOS upgrade told me I could not proceed with the BIOS update because I did not have a fully-charged battery. However, I found a way to bypass the roadblock by holding Scroll-Lock down when making the initial selection to start the BIOS upgrade. To be frank, I am not sure the BIOS upgrade did anything to help with my processor swapping.

Thanks a lot for the entertainment value alone if nothing else. This is exactly the kind of stuff that keeps this forum interesting and fresh. I caught your epic at the 2nd installment and went back to read the original one. Very cool! I used to do stuff like this, then I got married, had kids and coach. Now I just get to read about it.

I understand completely. I am nearing the point where engagement and kids seem imminent, so I am doing the best I can to tinker with my Thinkpad now rather than later when it may be too late.

One little update: I have been able to consistently operate the 310ED at 400 MHz and 2.45V for at least three hours straight under normal operating conditions with no shut-downs, glitches or weird behavior. I can surf the Internet, run word-processing and spreadsheet software, play CDs and audio and video files, play basic Windows games, etc., all with no problems and without the CPU even feeling anything more than warm. It appears to be the CPU-intensive MIDI programs I mentioned above that lead to the most processor heat and start to cause weird computer behavior after an hour or so of use. Some of these MIDI VST hosts and plug-ins have minimum CPU and memory requirements that are still twice what my computer has. Some of the MIDI hosts and plug-ins display 75% to 85% CPU usage with every real-time keyboard note I play! It does not surprise me that a flurry of MIDI notes would cause some processor heat. I downloaded and installed Rain 1.0, which is a CPU "halt" program that helps with cooling the CPU using Windows 95. Since installing Rain, I have had no crashes, glitches or issues with using the overclocked AMD at 400 MHz and 2.45V for long periods of time, even with the MIDI stuff. The only time the computer shuts down now is when I turn it off myself. While I have not yet tried pushing it to the limit with hours and hours of straight real-time MIDI playing and recording, I am one happy man with how it works so far.

[AlphaKilo470]

Sounds pretty good. Upgrading your old machine to 400mhz with 128mb of RAM sounds like a good acomplishment and in fact, that computer now has the same clock speed as my ThinkPad 600E. It'd be nice if we could see a benchmark comparing the performance of your upgraded 310ED to a desktop or laptop that ships standard with the same or similar chip.

[toddyjoe]

A benchmark is not a bad idea. I will see if I can find something that runs on an old system that will give a good comparison.

[cure]

Any final word on the state of this project? I have a 310ED that I might attempted this on . . .

[toddyjoe]

cure, the Thinkpad is still going strong with the updates discussed over the course of my related threads on the 310ED. I am still keeping my eyes open for good deals for two more possible upgrades: (1) an AMD K6-IIIP 400 or 433 MHz processor which has a bigger on-board cache, workable voltage/current requirements, and would not require overclocking and cooling concerns like my present processor; and (2) a larger-volume hard drive. Thus far, I cannot find either one of these upgrades cheap enough to justify their purchase for a $25 computer. In the meantime, I see no reason to try more invasive modifications (crystal swapping, etc.) on such an old machine. For a few dollars, I basically quadrupled the functionality of the original 310ED so I would recommend these upgrades over and over. Good luck and sorry about the delayed response!

[Davemci]

First off, my 310ED uses a 19 volt power supply not a 16 volt. Did IBM make 310EDs with different power requirements? Second, I'm holding an AMD K6-2 AFK 380MHZ. It's either a socket 7 or a super socket 7 but it isn't a socket 5 and that is what is in my 310ED. Did you use an interposer (Socket 7 to socket 5 adapter)? Last, The AMD has a dual voltage 2.0 Core and 3.3v I/O (AFK) while the socket 5 only supports a single voltage AFAIK. All the interposers I've seen use quite large electrolytic capacitors that would probably be too big for the 310ED. I've seen this modification elsewhere and the author didn't respond to my questions ot anyone elses. I'd also like to do this mod, but either I have the wrong CPU or there's some magic way to fit it into the socket 5 slot on my 310ED.

[toddyjoe]

Davemci, sorry for being late to the party but I just saw your post here.

I am not sure about your 16V/19V power supply question as each of the original and replacement power units I have used with my 310ED have been the same voltage with different wattage/amperage. I seem to recall the other Thinkpad laptop I had before its early death had a 19V adaptor but not the 310ED. Do you have a non-U.S. 310ED model or a non-original adaptor?

As far as the rest of the questions, you need the mobile AMD K6-2-P 380, which is the AFK version. The Socket 5 in the Thinkpad supports the split voltages for this chip without any interposers because this computer originally had a Pentium MMX chip with similar requirements. If I recall correctly, you have to break off the interior safety pin on the AMD chip to make it physically fit in that socket but all the other electrical requirements are near perfect for the 310ED ifyour voltage DIP switches are set correct and you have enough amps to power the chip for the processor speed you want.

You might want to check out all my other threads on my 310ED upgrade project for better information because it has been so long that I am just shooting from memory. I remember having to break off a safety pin on the AMD though which is fine because it serves no electrical purpose based on the information I got from the AMD junkies.

[schen]

I've finally jumped into the 3xx Series boat to see what I can do. I recently traded for a 380XD that I hope to play around with over the next few months. It should be the next step in the progression up the latter from your 310/315. I'm wondering whether you or someone else has gotten into trying to upgrade the processors in these things. I've seen it said that they have the CPUs are soldered in, but the IBM Spec Book says that it's on "Mobile Module 512Kb/ write-back" cache. I'm assuming that that's the MMC and should be upgradeable in some form from the PII/266 that my machine comes with. Maybe up to the PII/300 that the 380Z had?

My other question is what you were able to find as the EDO size limit. I see 64Mb SO-DIMMs being listed, and I've seen some 128Mb chips, but I'm not sure how big these things got and whether anyone has pushed the limit on what the 380x series will take.

As ever, your 310 project is a good read.

[toddyjoe]

schen, the maximum memory I could get was 128MB of EDO with two 64MB EDO SO-DIMM memory sticks. Here is the thread where I referened the same:

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=31346

From my research, this maximum was consistent with the ALi chipset used in the 310ED. If I tried more memory, such as a 128MB stick and 64MB stick, the memory still maxed out at 128MB. Similarly, PC66 and PC100 memory did not work in any size; only EDO worked.

[hrmcrm]

I'm following toddyjoe's lead in upgrading a 310ED. I am up to 64+32 = 96 MB RAM, and shopping for a second 64MB stick to get to the 128 MB max. Last night I put in an AMD K6-2 400 ACK, which has a 1.9 to 2.1 core voltage. With the 2.45V DIP switch setting he used with an AFK (2.1 - 2.3V core), the system would not boot. It gave a blink of the hard drive LED, but that was it. I changed to the approx. 2.15V setting and it boots and runs for about three minutes after powering on, then freezes. That at least proves the CPU is not dead. I'll now do better with thermal paste and the copper plate, then fiddle the voltages. It goes against my intuition that toddyjoe got better results with voltage above his CPU's stated range. To me, more volts means more heat, but I'll go on up some. I have proven that 2.45V is above the upper limit.

I have the benefit of a 120W universal power supply (an iTrust PW-1300p), so power will not be an issue. Our 310ED is type 2600-50U. The label on the bottom of the ThinkPad and the original IBM power supply both say 19V. That is also what I measured for the IBM power supply. The iTrust has adjustable voltage, so I set it at the same value as the original IBM supply.

More later.
Howard

[toddyjoe]

Interesting results with the voltage and settings you are using. I have not changed my voltage setting since the original post and I still use the same non-original power supply. I never had the opportunity to have an adjustable power adapter so I am not sure how the 16V/19V may affect your situation. This past Sunday I had continuous uptime on my 310ED of ten hours downloading stuff without any interruptions, heat problems, crashes or anything. I ended up manually shutting it off before I went to bed and the keyboard was only warm to the touch. The thermal paste and copper plate made a difference but I recall the power supply adapter being the biggest obstacle I had to overcome to hit 400 MHz. Did you try using the free Rain software I mentioned somewhere here? That seemed to help with uptime as well. I wish you good luck and urge you to keep at it!

[jruschme]

I wanted to publicly thank toddyjoe for this thread.

I started reading this thread thinking that it might be a nice approach for an old Acer Extensa 610CDT of mine. As I looked into it some more, it turns out that the Extensa 610 is pretty much the same as the ThinkPad 310, save for some bits like the TrackPoint (the Extensa has a Synaptics touchpad instead).

Anyway, tonight I received the K6-2/400AFR. I'm running at the 2.35 voltage setting with no problems other than the fact that I had to power on with the AC adapter (not unexpected as my battery is pretty much dead.

Now for a new CMOS battery (CR1220?) and some 64mb SODIMMS...

Thanks again...

[hrmcrm]

I switched our 310ED back to the original Pentium 133MMX and installed Rain 2.0, then manually set it for AMDK63D. I changed to the K6-2 400 ACK, set the core voltage at 2.15V, and booted. It booted properly, Rain ran, the heat spreader seemed cooler, but it locked a few minutes after powering on.

I notice the successful installations of K6-2s in 310EDs used AF_ types. Is there some reason the AF_ would work better than an AC_?

Thanks,
Howard

[hrmcrm]

While switching CPUs, I measured the core voltage with varying external power supply voltages. The DIP switches were set for 2.45V. With the external power supply providing 19V, the core voltage measured 2.45V, as expected. I dropped the external supply voltage in three steps to 16V, and the measured core voltage stayed constant at 2.45V! I had expected the the core voltage to change with changing external voltage, but it did not - shows what I know about DC power supplies.

Regards,
Howard

[hrmcrm]

jruschme,
Your Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:42 pm post mentions replacing the CMOS battery. I just did that on our 310ED, described at http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=38902

It was not a trivial task. I recommend you have the hardware manual to do it, unless you know a whole lot more about laptops than I do. The manual for the 310ED is at
ftp://ftp.software.ibm.com/pc/pccbbs/mobiles/310hmm.pdf

Happy tinkering.
Howard

[hrmcrm]

I think I may have found a combination that works for a K6-2/400/ACK. After installing Rain 2.0, I set the core voltage at 2.15V and booted. The ThinkPad ran for a few minutes, then locked. I increased the core to 2.25V and booted and would run for 15 to 30 minutes before it locked. For this K6-2/400 ACK, this is the same amount of increased core voltage (0.25V over the nominal 2.0V) as has been reported for the AFK processors (running at 2.45V, or 0.25V over the nominal 2.2V) in a 310ED. I moved the core voltage up to 2.35V, and booted again. This setting seems to run OK. It is more excess voltage than the AFKs are reported to need (0.35V above nominal core, compared to 0.25V reported for AFKs), but just below the 2.4 volts that is stated to cause permanent damage. According to the spec sheets, this 2.35V operation may shorten the CPU life. At least I can always go back to the 133 mHz Pentium, or buy an AFK if this ACK dies.

When doing CPU intensive tasks, the fan comes on. Once the CPU load is down for a while, the fan goes off, so the cooling looks good. I ran an anti-virus scan which took 36 minutes, and the machine got through it OK.

Rain seems to be essential to using the K6-2. I accidentally terminated Rain, and the system locked in a couple of minutes. Rain seems to confuse CPU monitoring software. I tried several, and with Rain enabled, they showed CPU use of 100%. When I disabled Rain, CPU use immediately went to almost zero. When I enabled Rain, CPU use showed 100% again.

With this CPU speed I was able to install a PCMCIA USB adapter, and a memory stick (running Windows 98SE). The OS does not like to have this particular card unplugged (after stopping it). That locks the system consistently.

Best regards,
Howard

[madartist]

I inherited a 310 and ran across this thread and figured it might be fun to try to max it out. Here is what I have done so far:

Replaced the 16MB stick of memory with two 64MB sticks. - Found out the $$ way that PC66 doesn't work but EDO does

Replaced the 1.6 gig hard drive with a 6 gig drive with Windows 98 or Windows ME (both work fine). - Since I've done this I can't get the PS2 mouse to work properly, it's extremely erratic to the point of being unusable. However if I put the 1.6 drive with the original Windows 95 on it the PS2 mouse works just fine.

Installed an AMD K-6-2/366 AFK. - Had to clip off one pin (inside right front corner). After some trial and error the switches are set at:
S1 (rear of cpu)- off,on,off,off - 2.45v
S3 (left of cpu / back) - on,off,on,on - 166mhz
S2 (left of cpu / front) - off,off,off,off (1&2-english, 3-check password, 4-reserved)

It seems to run fine and stable and is noticeably more responsive. I have an infrared temperature tester (the pistol grip kind that you point and shoot) and after just doing some simple stuff (defrag, run Everest, play Solitaire) it shows 115 degrees Fahrenheit on the cpu itself and 79 degrees Fahrenheit on the heat plate.

In Everest (computer/summary) it shows AMD K6-2, 166mhz (2.5x66)

I am going to try a couple of other Operating Systems (Win 2K, Linux, React) and see what works. I'll post more about that later.

Gee, this is fun !!

[hrmcrm]

For a lot more information about hot-rodding a 310ED, see toddyjoe's excellent posts in the AMD forum at:

http://forums.amd.com/forum/messageview ... adid=66139

and

http://forums.amd.com/forum/messageview ... adid=66166

They have information about 310ED DIP switch settings to use the speed of the K6-2.

I agree, this is fun. I'm interested in hearing how any Linux distributions performed.

Regards,
Howard

[madartist]

After reading this thread from the beginning again I have some questions and comments.

Listed below are the switch settings I have found. Are there any other switches I have missed? Will setting these switches at something other than what is shown yield different results?

(S1) Settings (Behind CPU)
CPU Voltage 2.35V 2.45V 2.9V 3.1V
Switch 1 Off Off Off Off
Switch 2 Off On Off Off
Switch 3 On Off Off Off
Switch 4 Off Off Off On

(SW3) Settings (Left of CPU rear)
CPU Speed 120Mhz 133MHz 150MHz 166MHz
Switch 1 Off On Off On
Switch 2 On Off On Off
Switch 3 Off Off On On
Switch 4 On On On On

(SW2) Switches (Left of CPU front)
Used for language, password, & reserved - not really applicable for CPU speed.

Toddyjoe, you stated in the first post "and switched the internal DIP settings on the SW3 box to 400 MHz (66 MHz bus with a 2.0 multiplier, interpreted as a 6.0 multiplier by the AMD K6-2)". What switch settings did you use?

Currently have Win2K SP4 up and running fine. I couldn't get SP4 to install in one shot so I installed SP1, SP2, SP3, & SP4 all individually and it worked fine. I tried Zone Alarm Firewall and Windows wouldn't boot. I had to go into Safe Mode and uninstall it. Tried Norton Firewall and AntiVirus, but Norton Live Update would lock up. Ended up with Comodo Firewall and A/V. Seems to work fine. Using a PCMCIA Network card to connect to cable internet and it works fine. PS2 Mouse is still extremely erratic to the point of being unusable, though serial mouse and trackpoint work just fine. (PS2 mouse worked fine during GUI part of W2k Setup and with original Windows 95 drive- go figure). Everest (system info utility) shows the AMD K6-2 runnung at 166 mhz (66mhzx2.5). Based on toddyjoe's statement in an earlier post "66 MHz bus with a 2.0 multiplier, interpreted as a 6.0 multiplier by the AMD K6-2" I presume it is running faster than 166mhz, but don't really know. I will probably run W2k for a while as it seems to be quite stable for now. I'll play around with the switches some more and see what happens.

[hrmcrm]

madartist,

Other SW1 settings for voltage are given in rRobert's post of Wed Feb 15, 2006 4:26 pm, at http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... highlight=

The SW3 settings for AMD K6-2 400 MHz are the same as for the original Pentium 133. The AMD interprets them differently.

There are lots more tidbits in the thread above, and the preceding ones at

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... highlight=

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... highlight=

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... highlight=

Regards,
Howard