Partition hard drive and still retain HPA

Message

makai · #1 Post by **makai** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 3:05 am

Hi All,
I'm soon going to replace my T41 hard drive (with a 7k100 80gig) and plan to use the Recovery Discs IBM sent to me to install the OS.

From reading the forum, I gather that the HPA partition will be created when I install using the discs.

However, I normally don't like not being able to partition my hard drives. I could live with just one partition on a 40gig drive, but on 80gigs, I would rather partition it out.

So.. my question is this... How can I partition the drive so that the IBM discs will install into the partitions "I" specify?

Is this even possible to do... or will the install just wipe my partition information?

I know I can use after market partitioning software after the install, but I would rather not bother with that if there is another way. Also, I wonder if ever I had to do a recovery, wouldn't the HPA just wipe my partitions again? (not to mention the data on those partitions! Yikes!)

Any help would be appreciated! Thanks

makai

#2 Post by **bill bolton** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 4:04 am

makai wrote:Also, I wonder if ever I had to do a recovery, wouldn't the HPA just wipe my partitions again? (not to mention the data on those partitions! Yikes!)

That is precisely what a recovery to factory configuration is all about!

Cheers,

Bill

makai · #3 Post by **makai** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 3:37 pm

That is precisely what a recovery to factory configuration is all about! Rolling Eyes

Well, I was really hoping for a reply that would be helpful... not condasending! What's with the rolling eyes???

I realize fully what the recovery software is capable of. I was hoping someone knew how to circumvent it... possibly a hack of some sort applied to the install discs.

#4 Post by **Kyocera** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 4:15 pm

bill gives a lot of good advice, i've used it before. There are also a lot of post's referencing your question, also you should be able to use a third party partitioning software of your choice even though the hidden protected area is there

not sure if what you are wanting to try is possible.

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=21487

#5 Post by **bill bolton** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 8:03 pm

makai wrote:Well, I was really hoping for a reply that would be helpful... not condasending! What's with the rolling eyes???

You were the one with the "but I would rather not bother" attitude!

There are good solutions, which you can find with a little searching on this site, if you are prepared to get "bothered".

Cheers,

Bill

makai · #6 Post by **makai** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 3:48 pm

bill,

First off, I'm not a stranger to computers. I've built and worked on them for many years. I don't have an "attitude". I only stated I didn't want to "bother" with using 3rd party utilities because they cost money... not because I don't know how to use them.

I have searched far and wide on this and other forums for an answer to my specific questions. I didn't find any post about partitioning and still keeping the HPA. This is why I created my thread. I was basically hoping someone out there had managed to possibly "slipstream" the IBM CDs.

If I knew I would get some snide remark from an obviously long term user, I wouldn't have posted at all. Sorry to say, but I'm not the one with the "attitude".

You really need to cool it and if you have nothing helpful to add to a thread... other than trying to make other people feel stupid... you should probably just not reply to the thread.

makai · #7 Post by **makai** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 4:50 pm

Kyocera,

bill gives a lot of good advice

Thanks, but I wouldn't consider what bill wrote as "advice".

I suspect that you might be correct about it not being possible. I just thought I would post to see if anyone had some thoughts. I didn't post to get rolling eyes as a response.

Thanks anyways.

#8 Post by **bill bolton** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:06 pm

makai wrote:I'm not the one with the "attitude".

Nudge, nudge, wink, wink, say no more!

hiyel · #9 Post by **hiyel** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:16 pm

*****EDIT*****
This post contains incorrect information, see my later post if interested
*****EDIT*****

Hi Makai,

What you want was one of the first things that I looked into when I got my T43 three months ago. I've read pretty much every thread about R&R, and did my own experiments. There is no way to reatain the partitions on your hard drive after using IBM recovery disks, it wipes out everything and makes it out of the box. Infact, you can not even retain partitions when you recover your system partition from a Rescue & Recovey backup file. This program is more like backs up the whole hard drive and then write it back when you recover, rather than backing up a single partition and writing it to a partition later on. I have a 10 gig system partition with all my programs, and another partition with all my data media archives etc. When I have trouble with the system, I would want to reinstall it from my clean backup, but not touch to my data partition. This seemed not possible with R&R. So I figured that it's pretty much useless for me, and I killed the 300 MB beast off my harddrive. I now use my good old copy of v2i protector, it's 4 years old but works like a charm. I also killed the hidden partition as well, because it is the same thing as the recovery disks that you have, although, I have their images on another hd.

ibm_phil · #10 Post by **ibm_phil** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:53 pm

Hi Makai,

Actually, i did this just the other day and it worked fine. After i purchased my T43p about a year ago, soon after i partitioned it so i had a 20gb C and 40gb D. The other day i wanted to foramt the C and re-install the factory operating system and settings.

I used R&R which i accessed through pressing Access IBM button at startup, and chose to retore factory settings. When i did this, it gave me a choose, it said i have a partition C and D and would i like to just format C and re-install factory setting to this drive, or would i like to format the C and D. I just chose to format C, as all my data is on D, which i have backed up anyway, but it worked like a charm. The R&R didnt touch the D drive and restored my C exactly as it was when new. After a few hours i had my T43p running faster and exactly how i wnated it.

Phil.

makai · #11 Post by **makai** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:56 pm

hiyel,

Yah, I imagine the only way to do this is to find a way to hack the IBM CDs so that I can command it not to wipe the partition data and to install the way I want it to. It may be very complicated, but I've done a lot of slipstreaming XP discs so I am going to look into it at a later time. I just installed a 80gig drive and it didn't take that long, so I'm guessing the software doesn't format the entire drive, but rather just enough for HPA and install (could be way off on this). Should be interesting... but I'm not really getting my hopes up.

I did end up using Partition magic to partition out the drive, but just like you, I would like not to have to wipe out my partitions if something goes awry with my machine.

BTW, I also have a brand new XP Pro disc that I never used so if what I want is not at all possible, or not worth the hassle, I can always just go that route. The HPA is nice to have though, and it's soooo easy to use!

makai · #12 Post by **makai** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 9:03 pm

ibm_phil

Wow~! That's great news. I'm so glad you posted this info! Gee, I feel like trying it just to see what happens!

Since I just installed the drive, I don't have any data on the other partitions, so no big loss.

You must have been posting while I was answering hiyel's post.

Thanks again... I think I will give it a go! I'll post back with results.

EDITED Just noticed something in your post. You have a T43. I believe the T43s don't use the same hidden partition scheme. Didn't they do away with it on T43s?

makai

makai · #13 Post by **makai** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 11:20 pm

Well, I just finished running the recovery.... and it WORKED! My C drive was completely overwritten and recovered to factory condition... And, here's the BIGGIE... it left the other two partitions I created, D and E INTACT.

Since this was an experiment, I decided to load some data (300 megs of programs) on the E: partition (prior to recovery) just in case this might work. Well, glad to say, all the programs are still present and function as expected. I installed some of them to test their integrity.

This experiment uncovered a few things...

1) On my T41, the IBM recovery will NOT overwrite partitions or information that reside on partitions, created by 3rd party software. Although I can only speak for partitions created by Partition Magic 8, which I just happened to use.

2) On my T41, I was NOT given a choice (like ibm_phil) of what partition to install on. The recovery just went along as if there was only one partition on the drive. I immediately thought my partitions/data would be wiped, but to my happy surprise they weren't!

3) I also happened to install a program on my D partition just to see what happened. Well, just as expected, the recovery replaced the registry, so the program of course didn't work.

4) Although this did not exactly fulfill what I was looking for, I did get most of what I was hoping for. I still had to purchase a 3rd party software for partitioning, but at least I now know the recovery will not wipe the entire drive and take my data along with it! I also get to keep the HPA, so I'm happy!

I hope this little experiment will help others who have similar questions about what can be expected when they do a recovery on a partitioned drive.

Thanks to all who responded... especially ibm_phil for pointing me in the right direction!!!

hiyel · #14 Post by **hiyel** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 11:34 pm

I'm sorry for providing incorrect information. After ibm_phil's and makai's posts I remembered that I actually did not do the whole experiment that I mentioned. R&R did not give me any option about which partition to install the back up into, so I just assumed that it will wipe out the whole drive.

However I'm pretty happy with my v2i protector, it backs up my 10 gig partition with 8.2 gig data in it, in only 10 minutes and it compresses down to 4 gig. Even copying this 4 gig file to my external usb drive takes longer than that !

#15 Post by **GomJabbar** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 2:35 am

makai wrote:Well, I just finished running the recovery.... and it WORKED!

Did you follow the procedure of ibm_phil? Also, which version of Rescue and Recovery are you using? AFAIK, Version 3 replaces the HPA with WinPE.

makai · #16 Post by **makai** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 8:11 am

hiyel,
No problem. Any information is always welcomed! It helps to get the old noggin working!

GomJabbar,

Did you follow the procedure of ibm_phil?

If you're asking if I ran the recovery using the IBM ACCESS button at startup, then the answer is Yes. But like I stated previously, I didn't get a choice of where to install like ibm_phil did.

I've done a few recoveries on my T41s before, so running it via IBM Access at startup is not unfamiliar to me. But, I never ran it while there were other partitions on the drive. I just assumed all this time that the recovery software would wipe the drive... partitioned or not... and bring it back to a single partition. This is what I read in many posts on the subject and had been my own experience on single partitioned drives. I guess what it comes down to is that the recovery software appears to be smart enough not to touch any partition other than the C drive.

As for the version of software, I will have to check and post back later when I get home today.

makai · #17 Post by **makai** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 5:48 pm

GomJabbar...

When I launch IBM ACCESS during start up, the screen says the Recovery Program is version 5.8. The install CDs are dtd 11-18-2004.

#18 Post by **GomJabbar** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 6:20 pm

That version number sounds like CSS. While in Windows, go to Start > All Programs > ThinkVantage > Rescue and Recovery. Which version do you see while in that screen?

If you don't find Rescue and Recovery there, go to Start > All Programs > Access IBM > Rescue and Recovery Rapid Restore Ultra (or some approximation of that).

makai · #19 Post by **makai** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 7:02 pm

I think Thinkvantage only applies to models newer than T41. Thinkvantage is not on my machine.

Also, Rapid Restore Ultra is not installed as an app on my machine... it's only a link to a web update. This is how it is on both of my T41s.

I'm curious though... why do you want to know the version of the recovery software? I believe that the HPA that's installed by the discs being dtd yr 2004 is quite old. The discs are meant for T41, T41P, R50, R50P. According to Bill Morrow, these discs will support all Tx models including T43s... I think that's what he posted in thread somewhere.

#20 Post by **GomJabbar** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 3:16 am

makai wrote:I'm curious though... why do you want to know the version of the recovery software?

I wanted to know, based on what I remembered reading on this thread. http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=15964

I have not done a restore to factory state with Rescue and Recovery. I read what other user's experiences are, and I base my comments on them. Thanks for your input.

I have to revise what I thought I knew.

Doing more research just now, I see how the situation is and where the confusion is coming from. The following is quoted from I believe to be the latest version of Access IBM Help for the T42. Your experience seems to indicate this was the case for you.

Access IBM Help - Restore from Service Partition wrote:The Restore factory contents method deletes all information stored on the primary partition (drive C). If possible, make backup copies of your data files before using the Restore factory contents method.

Access IBM Help - Restore from Product Recovery Discs wrote:When you use the Product Recovery CDs, all data and partitions on your hard disk are deleted. The end result will be a single C: partition containing the original factory contents.

EDIT: AFAIK, you could have upgraded to version 3 of Rescue and Recovery somewhere along the way. Hence another reason for my question. If you restored from the original HPA, your experience could be different than if you had upgraded to version 3 of Rescue and Recovery. FWIW, I did upgrade Rescue and Recovery on my T42 from version 2 to version 3.

ibm_phil · #21 Post by **ibm_phil** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 4:24 am

No worries Makai, i am glad my advice was helpful to you. To answer your question a few posts up, i used Parttion Magic 7.0 when i first got my machine to partition the drives, as you are right, they did have just one C drive. To clear that up, it had a 56gb C and then a hidden 4gb D, for the R&R, so i moved the 4gb D to E and made a new 35gb D and made the C just 20gb.

The version of Rescue and Recovery i have now is 2.0. But i think when i did the restore the version may have been higher. Actually i seem to have different version snow of all the IBM/Lenovo software. As when i did the restore, everything went back to the current software that was avaible through IBM a year ago. So i had to use the software updater to get the most recent. The strange thing is i dont get all the recent ones now. Like the new Fingerprint drivers and software, or the new WLAN drivers. They were installed before i did the restore, but now when i run Software installer it saus everyhting is up to date. Does anyone know why this happens? its telling me im up to date but i know im not, as it was only a few weeks ago i got all the latest updates before and now they are gone.

Cheers,
Phil.

#22 Post by **GomJabbar** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 5:02 am

ibm_phil, I don't know why Software Installer does not realize you do not have the new updates. I have a theory though. Software Installer makes a registry entry for all the software that is installed. Use regedt32 and do a search for the phrase software installer. On my T42, I see the entries at : HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\IBM\ThinkPadSoftwareInstaller\Install\. There are subkeys for each of the IBM/Lenovo supplied software packages.

Here are a couple of things you can try. Go to the driver matrix page for your T43p and download the software manually. If you use Download Director, everything will be saved to the C:\DownloadDirector\ directory. Double-click on the .exe files to extract the software packages. Pay attention to where each package is extracted to. Now try running Software Installer. If it see's the updates to install, then well and good. If not, just go to each directory where each software package was extracted to, and double-click on SETUP.EXE to install.

From the following link, choose to "Detect my system", or else enter the information in manually to get to the driver matrix page for your model ThinkPad. Downloads and drivers

ibm_phil · #23 Post by **ibm_phil** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 9:33 pm

Thanks for your comments and link GomJabber.

I downloaded the most recent fingerprint software this monring and installed, but the logon screen and the "Green Tick" screen when it validates my finger still look the same. Before i had done format and updated, one of the updates changed the way the logon ond the "Green Tick" window opened, it actually opened a smaller window and then said successful etc. With the latest installed it still looks the same as it did when i first got my laptop, all in the one window with no red outline boxes etc. Im guessing i am missing another update for some other software, which may control the Lenovo/IBM change over and how they redisgned a few things. Can you think of what this might be.

I used to update all my progs and software wih software installer, and usually just did the ones they recommeneded, which was all of them, so im not sure where things started to look different. Somehow now it does not do this.

Anyone else have any ideas?

Phil.

mamamia · #24 Post by **mamamia** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 4:28 pm

and it's not just partition magic. i think it is anything. there's this freeware program called partition logic that i used, and it still works (however, you have to be able to partition it in windows later, and windows won't let you in disk manager, which is a pain)

womble · #25 Post by **womble** » Thu May 25, 2006 10:55 pm

makai wrote:
1) On my T41, the IBM recovery will NOT overwrite partitions or information that reside on partitions, created by 3rd party software. Although I can only speak for partitions created by Partition Magic 8, which I just happened to use.

Does anyone know whether this works with partions that where not created with third party software? i.e. with the standard XP disc manager?

Thanks.

w0qj · #26 Post by **w0qj** » Thu May 25, 2006 11:58 pm

Hi guys,

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... ht=#132658

I had the exact opposite experience a few months ago.

-Left the HPA partition untouched
-split my HDD into C:\ (for Windows/programs) and E:\ (for data).

Used the "Blue" Access IBM button, do a factory restore reset, which restored the C:\ partition to just like you first you got your computer, and leaving my E:\ (data) partition intact.

*******BUT upon 2nd reboot (1st reboot was fine), HDD was completely UNBOOTABLE (could not even access Windows Safe Mode).

womble · #27 Post by **womble** » Mon May 29, 2006 3:40 am

Okay, for what it's worth, I tried the recovery procedure and came up with very different results from the OP.

Using the 7 CD recovery set and 2 partitions that had been resized using Partition Magic, I lost *both* partitions and the entire drive was reset to a single C: drive + a hidden recovery partition.

vital-analitix · #28 Post by **vital-analitix** » Mon May 29, 2006 5:54 am

Use any software that you can think off (fdisk, some free linux distro like Ubuntu or WInME / WIN98SE and pqmagic) and wipe the IBM C:\ partition. Make then two partitions in the size you want.

Now before you restore from the hidden IBM partition you delete the first partition, it will automatically install in the empty space.

Once done then you use XP to delete the second partition and make your extended partition.

Next time you want to use your hidden IBM partition to restore then you simple delete the first partition of your HD, otherwise it will delete both partitions!

This worked for me when I still had the IBM hidden partition.

I found the process just too timeconsuming. (why wait hours when it can be done in minutes?)

What I did next was to get Acronis. I did the restore from the hidden partition, applied all the IBM (Lenovo) updates, all the MSN OS patches. Then deleted the hidden partition.

Next I installed Acronis 9 and made a hidden Acronis partition.

After I had done this I backed up onto this partition.

You can restore from Acronis and specify the size of the restored partition. The other nice thing from Acronis is that you can access a USB HD, access the backup as a "virtual drive" (so you can get a single file if needed)

You can also specify a next backup to be located elsewhere.

One warning with Acronis: it does not work kindly with DVD backups, you'll have to boot from an ordinary CD first (or from the hidden backup). I have never succeeded in making a bootable DVD.

Marinus

#29 Post by **bill bolton** » Mon May 29, 2006 6:03 am

vital-analitix wrote:One warning with Acronis: it does not work kindly with DVD backups, you'll have to boot from an ordinary CD first (or from the hidden backup). I have never succeeded in making a bootable DVD.

There is a new update to Acronis True Image 9, released in the last week or so, that writes directly to DVD (i.e. no need for InCD or whatever), so you might have better success with that.

Cheers,

Bill

Partition hard drive and still retain HPA

Partition hard drive and still retain HPA

Re: Partition hard drive and still retain HPA

restore doesn't overwrite partitions

Is it necessary to use third party partitioning software?

Didn't work for me.

Who is online