(T42 vs T43) vs R52 & 14.1 vs 15. Purchase advice needed

[csioucs]

Hello everyone.
I need to find some answers soon as I need urgently to decide what thinkpad to buy. I am discussing only the SXGA versions below.

After reading many hours around here and bunch of reviews, I've found out that, well, T42 is very similar to T43. Or the way around. The only thing is that the T43 has a faster frontbus 533 vs T42's 400, faster ram DDR2 4200 vs DDR 2700, and small difference in CPU, i.e. 740, 750, 760 vs 735, 745, 755, and so on (the latter I am not sure how to interpret).
My first question is: Do these all make a noticeable difference?

2ndly: Is the keyboard the same size on 14.1 inches or is it larger on the 15 version. This is important for me, as I was accustomed to a 14.1 version of my T30, which is magnificent, I must say (the domes are light grey and I do not know what make it is...). But this is a very important issue for me, as I type a lot. Also: does it flex in any way when pressing harder?

3dly and perhaps most important.
Since the T43 uses faster things it heats up more is being said...True? Heat, I believe is a decisive issue in laptops, in their lifespan. I will be using it in some dusty environments, and I know from my T30 that in 2 or 3 years the fan is worn out...and if the heat is to great inside some things will melt, not all of a sudden, but in years. As I plan to use the laptop I am buying for some years. Wish I could afford a T60...but that is a 500$ away question. Comments?

Secondly is heat an issue between 14 and 15 inches versions? Has anyone used both? I've read that a larger notebook body cools better than a smaller one on a notebook of the same size. Also I've read that over 1.8 ghz the CPU's heat a lot the notebook in intensive apps. It could help that I am a power user of TP. What are your perspectives?

Besides, a R52 is enticing for its price, and the only reason for not looking at an R52 similarly configed is it's lack of titanium. Also it does less heat, reviewers of both say-a slight larger body. (And buildwise concerning the screen I've tested it's screen and it does not bend, or flex in any way but the keyboard seems to flex just a very little bit. I must buy myself a NMB keyboard to it IF I do not buy a T series...Much depends on your input .

Thanks,

[det922]

i beleive the t43, t60 and all those dual cores need a few things worked out first ( i run a tech operation and ive seen alot already) the difference when you go to a t43 is notable, i had a t41 and i bought a t43p motherboard and am still biulding it but even in its simplicity its worth it, the keyboard is the same, the fan stuff is mostly crap, i havent noticed much ( i put my t41 fan it the new mobo) and it still runs fine, i think the t43 is more worth it in long run after all why get a dual core centreno when things are going to go 64 bit? the r series was never that worth it to me as always you get what you pay for if you have any more questions id be glad to help

[csioucs]

Well basically you are advising me to get the T43 against the T42?

[christopher_wolf]

The T43 and the T42 are quite close to begin with, it all depends on what you want to do with it. If you need the best performance you can get out of the T4X Series but want it looking like the other T4Xs or a T42, might as well get a T43. There are quite a few advantages to it, all of which I use day to day. The heat isn't significant as I have used my T43 for hours on end on my lap without breaking a sweat; comparing it to my friend's T42, I can't tell much of any difference.

[csioucs]

oK. let's see if i can persuade the paying decider to squeeze me a T60 if possible, if not...than it as such.... I really do not need any bottlenecks in usage....

[dr_st]

T42 is better than T43
15" hands down over 14.1"

[asiafish]

T42 is better than T43, but DEFINITELY GO 14.1"!!!!

[det922]

how is that at all possible the t43 runs circles around both plus if u get the right lcd (LG) it also looks infintly beter, look at the screen differences post and you will see the T43 won in all

[det922]

i advise for the t43 because i had all three the 41 42 and 43, the t43 is also future based and has alot more bang for the buck why get a t42 that is already being phazed out rather then a already proven powerful t43 and that screen thing for a t42 is nonsense look

here is about the older screens on t42

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... creen+dark

and the pics proving the t43 being on top

http://home.att.net/~murphj/wsb/html/vi ... 04186.html

perfect shot to see the LG shine ,

i just got a t43p motherboard and new parts to go along with it and i feel it was the best move ive done

[det922]

http://urbansemiotic.com/2006/01/03/thi ... 2u-review/ read this review and see how someone else rates it

[dr_st]

(A) The exact same LCDs are used on T42s and T43s. Some are better than others, and you may get lucky or unlucky with equal chance on both.

(B) T43 isn't one bit more future-proof than T42. It's the same 32-bit mobile core, only at higher FSB, making it a bit faster clock-for-clock, and a bit more power-consuming too.

(C) It's true that the highest-end components of a T43p (2.26GHz P-M, FireGL V3200) are better than the highest-end for T42p (2.1GHz P-M, FireGL T2). But in general, the performances overlap greatly.

[hoya]

and the pics proving the t43 being on top

http://home.att.net/~murphj/wsb/html/vi ... 04186.html

perfect shot to see the LG shine

I took those pictures, and even though the colors are superior on a 15" LG FlexView, I still prefer the 14" T series. I prefer reading text on the 14" T.

between a T42 and T43, I would take a T42, especially if you are in dusty environments. This T42 is very nicely configured and well priced:
http://www.thenerds.net/index.php?page= ... pn=2373M2U

if you can afford it, DEFINITELY go for a 14" T60. you won't regret it, and pricing is amazing if you know an IBM employee. I've seen several T60's and they are superior in every regard. the rollcage is brilliant, the keyboard drainage is improved, the bottom uses only ONE type of screw rather than three, and there are tons of other improvements.

[det922]

if you would take 42 why did u get the t43 and its also pci express and the benchmarks dont lie esp. with a 2.26 proc and the screen difference as someone said b4 as being the same is impossible, ive seen some nice 43's and some bad, a basic one like my girlfriends with 1.86 and a intel gma900 i will agree a 42 is better cuz those basic 43's suck but if one of the nicer radeon x300 or even better a 43p, nothing rocks like those her 43 discuraged me, but the 43p definatly holds it down bar none, and there is alot of little differences that get overlooked that they have

[draco2527]

I voted on the 14.1 screen! As long as you get the 1400X1050 you should be fine.

Again, IMPO the SXGA 14.1 is the perfect size for a laptop! in the configuration of size of the T4X series.

[hoya]

if you would take 42 why did u get the t43

I had a T42 for a long time but the system board failed four times, and Lenovo couldn't fix it, so they gave me a refund. when I went to buy a new T series, the T43 was cheaper, so that's what I bought.

my main complaints on the T43 are the loud fan, shorter battery life, and 2010 BIOS error message when using most 'non-compatible' off-the-shelf hard drives.

now that the T60 has been released, I won't bother replacing my T43 with a T42.

[dr_st]

its also pci express

So? What good is it to you? It's not.

and the benchmarks dont lie esp. with a 2.26 proc

As I said, the higher-end models are definitely a notch faster on the T43, but just a notch. And how about comparing a 2.1GHz T42p with a 1.6GHz T43? Who do you think is gonna win, ha?

and the screen difference as someone said b4 as being the same is impossible

I said it before, I'll say it again, although it won't make any difference, as it appears that your reading skills are as bad as your writing skills - the exact same screens are used on the T42 and T43. At least when it comes to the IDTech/LG Flexviews.

The 43p definatly holds it down bar none, and there is alot of little differences that get overlooked that they have

The T43p's only noticeable advantage is the videocard, which is better than that of the T42p. Even the CPU diff of 2.1 vs 2.26 is not that crucial. And all these little differences get overlooked, because they are little and insignificant.

[dr_st]

I voted on the 14.1 screen! As long as you get the 1400X1050 you should be fine.

Again, IMPO the SXGA 14.1 is the perfect size for a laptop! in the configuration of size of the T4X series.

I voted for 15" only because Flexview is not available on 14.1" and I find this a crucial point.

[w0qj]

If you plan to tweak your system (especially upgrade your hard disk), strongly advise you to get the T42 (either 14" or 15" depending on your needs) instead of T43.


The single biggest problem with T43 is its very well documented problem of cannot upgrading hard drives--even if you buy retail Hitachi 7K60 or 7K100 you cannot use it. This is because of T43's motherboard supports SATA hard drives, but IBM decided to put on a PATA (ie: IDE) adapter for normal non-SATA hard drives at the last minute.

OK, there's some reports now that with massive user tweaking you can overcome this severe disadvantage, by changing HDD's firmware & the like, but why bother?

I've upgraded my T42s (2373-K5H) from the native Fujitsu 5K40 to:
-Hitachi 7K60, and then to a 7K100 within 18 months.
-no problems at all--just plug in the HDD & use Product Recovery CD's.

This is the way it should be--but the T43 can't do this!



Also, T43's CPU use up more power (some say half an hour less battery life), runs hotter (may have fan running more), but has one ExressCard slot (yeah right, have you seen an ExpressCard accessory yet? Neither have I).

T42 all the way over T43.

[christopher_wolf]

Just to correct a few things about the above post;

1.) The 2010 Problem is caused by the firmware requird for the SATA-PATA bridge. Some work right out of the box, and some can have their firmware reflashed to work. I have used a 60GB 7200RPM Hitachi in the main bay, clocked data transfer rates, and didn't notice any problems cause by the bridge when compared to my 80GB 5400RPM Hitachi

2.) I have yet to see something conclusive about this "heat issue"; I can understand that certain models shipped have the fan problem. As of yet, however, I haven't been able to even feel the difference. Intel's site gives only the basic stats on the CPU and that isn't in a T4X Series machine, so it cant be compared directly. If I can't feel the heat buildup, it doesn't mean it isn't there but it does mean that almost all users of the system wouldn't notice and wouldn't care.

For all the complaints that have been leveled at the T43; there are precious few that are either thought out to any extent wahtsoever or actually based on information that is actually reproducible, even if internal options change whilst keep the Thinkpad a T43. And yes, I have even encountered somebody with a T42 that has the fan problem; told them about the Fan Control Utility and they were even happier ever since.

[det922]

Well it was not a straight comparison; it was the upgrade I made it would not make sense if I had a 1.6 to up it to 1.86 rather then going as far as I can if possible. After all wasn’t the limit for the t42, t41 1.7? and there are a few expresscards out not in large amounts but there are TV tuner's memory card readers Sata external adapters, its not PCMCIA yet and its probably under 20 devices but they are out there and proving it worth at a slow but steady pace so yes pci express is helpful to me( just not to you) and that little problem with the hard drives with the new bios it still says it but goes on, I bought a 160gb hard drive and have had no problem with it jus the little beeps no crazy firmware needed 2 beeps and 3 seconds of your time are hardly worth going crazy or modifying things or sticking by the smaller and slower drives on their site and power, it is a marginal difference id admit from the t41 to the t43p I lost a half of an hour but had more luck with fan and voltage modification to bring the time back up and to attack my reading or writing skills because of your belief of your laptop is seriously Childish its a forum and I'm only giving my two cents something no one on this site should be chopped up for, their wouldn’t be a 43 if there wasn’t something other then "The T43p's only noticeable advantage is the video card, which is better than that of the T42p. Even the CPU diff of 2.1 vs. 2.26 is not that crucial. And all these little differences get overlooked, because they are little and insignificant." many little and insignificant things lead to a bigger and more significant things thus leading to a new model, you may also be right about the flexviews being the same company correct but I’ve seen a lot less t42p's around then t43p's not for any specific reason because if it was easier to find months ago when I got the t41 I would have had a t42p instead but the prices wanted for that compared to what I spent now just didn’t make sense. If I had a t42, I wouldn’t bother either. I had one at work it was nicer definitely then the t41 but for each one there was little things that were improved upon. Although just like any time you go to a gas station there are three types of fuel none is necessarily better then the other it depends a lot on the car used.
the biggest thing id say about the pre 43's that make it better in my eyes is their is no restriction with the types of parts I couldn’t use from the t41 and it made it a lot harder with some parts that were needed for OS X x86

[dr_st]

After all wasn’t the limit for the t42, t41 1.7?

T41p is limited to 1.7. T42p to 2.1. T43p to 2.26.

and there are a few expresscards out not in large amounts but there are TV tuner's memory card readers Sata external adapters, its not PCMCIA yet and its probably under 20 devices but they are out there and proving it worth at a slow but steady pace so yes pci express is helpful to me( just not to you)

Ah, so you were talking about ExpressCard, not PCI-Express. Then, yes, ExpressCards can be helpful, that's true.

All in all, the reason I recommend T42 over T43 for most cases, is because the performance improvement is marginal, but you are _more_ likely to experience issues with heat and noise and HD upgrade headaches. If your CPU is 5% slower you will never notice the difference, but if you end up being one of the unlucky users with the heat and noise problem it's going to bother you all the time. And if your particular BIOS version doesn't like your particular HD upgrade, you're gonna crack your head for a solution.

Finally:

to attack my reading or writing skills because of your belief of your laptop is seriously Childish its a forum and I'm only giving my two cents

No, it's not childish. Here's why. Your posts are impossible to read. That can mean one of three things:

(1) You're retarded and can't write intelligible posts. Judging by the contents of your posts, it's not true.

(2) You can't be bothered to write in an intelligible manner. That shows your lack of respect to the members of the forum.

(3) You don't care about neat writing, because you don't care whether your posts are read or not. Why write at all then?

[dr_st]

1.) The 2010 Problem is caused by the firmware requird for the SATA-PATA bridge. Some work right out of the box, and some can have their firmware reflashed to work.

Reflashing the firmware is too big a hassle for most users.

2.) I have yet to see something conclusive about this "heat issue"; I can understand that certain models shipped have the fan problem. As of yet, however, I haven't been able to even feel the difference. Intel's site gives only the basic stats on the CPU and that isn't in a T4X Series machine, so it cant be compared directly. If I can't feel the heat buildup, it doesn't mean it isn't there but it does mean that almost all users of the system wouldn't notice and wouldn't care.

The only conclusive thing is that it happens more frequently on a T43 than on a T42. And that's only judging by the subjective number of complaints we see on it.

The feeling I have about the T4x series, is that it started with T40, then the T41 added minor improvements, then the T42 added some major improvements (DDR333, Dothan CPUs that were both faster and cooler, better video cards, 15" size with Flexview). Then came the T43 which added some noticeable improvements (faster CPUs, faster RAM, faster video on the T43p, Expresscards) but also a few, albeit minor, disadvantages (heat, reduced battery life, SATA-PATA bridge). And now it's a matter of weighing advantages versus disadvantages.

To me the T42 feels as a clear improvement over previous offerings. T43, due to the above, doesn't offer this feeling.

[Aroc]

I probably would have gotten a T42, but by time I would have added the three year warranty to the openbay models I was looking at, the T42 would have been about $200 and with a slightly slower processor, slightly slower, single channel memory, slightly older discrete video, and no express card slot, etc, etc. For my usage I don't see the slightly increased fan noise, heat, and slightly shorter battery runtime to be worth the increased costs and slightly inferior performance. Even if that performance is not perceptable. Others clearly vote the other way with their $$$. That's fine I understand there are different priorities. Had the dollar roles been reversed, I would have gotten the T42.

And since I can circumvent the 2010 warning, I don't see that as a problem. But I do realize I am a unique power user.

[Paul Comeaux]

Am I missing something here? There are a ton of responses at to which model is better; but how can anyone give anything other than a theoretical response to this without asking, "What exactly will you be using the computer for?"

"So which is better, a 17 inch LCD TV or a 43 inch?" "Why, the 43 inch, of course! It's hi-def ready, supports surround sound, etc. etc." "Great! But did I tell you that whatever I buy will go into my kitchen, right above the microwave, and I'll use it primarily to watch CNN while cooking?"

I have the T42. I am a transactional lawyer at a big firm, and spend up to 10 hours a day working on my computer. I primarily use Word, WordPerfect, Lotus Notes, Dragon Naturally Speaking 8, MediaMonkey to listen to music while I work, and of course Firefox to surf the web when I'm bored. Now, how would any of the responses so far help me decide which computer to get? Seems to me that if I were asking whether to get the T42 or T43, the proper answer may be "save money and get the T42, but put the extra money into a good monitor to use at your office to save your eyes!"

[hoya]

Am I missing something here? There are a ton of responses at to which model is better; but how can anyone give anything other than a theoretical response to this without asking, "What exactly will you be using the computer for?"

if you re-read his original post, you'll see that his concerns are 1) heat as it relates to fan wear in dusty environments, 2) keyboard usability, and 3) heat differences between 14 & 15" models.

Clearly, there ARE differences in heat & fan noise between the T42 and T43, but the extent of which seems open to debate. there is also variability among T43's and T42's in regards to fan rpm and noise, so it isn't a clear-cut debate. some T42's are hot and loud, most are not, while Most T43's are hot and loud while a few are not.

there are many passionate responses due to the fact that this entire T42/T43 topic is still hotly contested.

in my opinion, he needs a 14" T42 with an NMB keyboard because 1) the fan rpm is generally lower on a T42, 2) the TDP is lower on Dothan than Sonoma so there will generally be less heat, 3) an NMB keyboard has the best tactile feedback and is the quietest of all three.

if he doesn't mind spending the extra $, the T60 is superior for many other reasons.

Personally, I will be much happier when the T4x line is discontinued and all these petty arguments become archived permanently

[det922]

i agree

[dr_st]

Am I missing something here? There are a ton of responses at to which model is better; but how can anyone give anything other than a theoretical response to this without asking, "What exactly will you be using the computer for?"

Because in case of T42 vs T43 it doesn't matter - both are designed to do exactly the same stuff and have the same basic features and parameters.

[bzzz]

Personally, I will be much happier when the T4x line is discontinued and all these petty arguments become archived permanently

T60 sucks - it has no red and blue lines on the buttons!

[bzzz]

2.) I have yet to see something conclusive about this "heat issue"; I can understand that certain models shipped have the fan problem. As of yet, however, I haven't been able to even feel the difference. Intel's site gives only the basic stats on the CPU and that isn't in a T4X Series machine, so it cant be compared directly. If I can't feel the heat buildup, it doesn't mean it isn't there but it does mean that almost all users of the system wouldn't notice and wouldn't care.

right now I have T42 (1.6GHz) and T43 (1.86GHz) on the desk. The both are with 14" LCD. T43 is noticable louder. Noticable. Yes, I can use Fan Control Utility, but anyway I feel much better with T42 because of less heat and battery life which is also noticable longer.

[christopher_wolf]

2.) I have yet to see something conclusive about this "heat issue"; I can understand that certain models shipped have the fan problem. As of yet, however, I haven't been able to even feel the difference. Intel's site gives only the basic stats on the CPU and that isn't in a T4X Series machine, so it cant be compared directly. If I can't feel the heat buildup, it doesn't mean it isn't there but it does mean that almost all users of the system wouldn't notice and wouldn't care.

right now I have T42 (1.6GHz) and T43 (1.86GHz) on the desk. The both are with 14" LCD. T43 is noticable louder. Noticable. Yes, I can use Fan Control Utility, but anyway I feel much better with T42 because of less heat and battery life which is also noticable longer.

Mind taking a good, high quality recording, of both and comparing them to mine?

Mine has now been on battery for two hours and has hovered around 38-41 degrees with the fan at Level 1 without having to use the Fan Control Utility.

Later, if you want I can measure and chart out the temperatures on my T43 and my friend's T42 and compare them again; I can guarantee there is little difference. After running them daily, they both feel lukewarm to the touch on the bottom.