New ThinkPad vs Old ThinkPad looks ?? (poll)

Message

cerebral_mamba · #1 Post by **cerebral_mamba** » Sat Mar 11, 2006 9:13 pm

I just want to know exactly how many of us actually prefer the new ThinkPad looks with the RED & BLUE strips striped from the UltraNav, The black Function buttons instead of the OLD Gray and new UltraNav & Touchpad design.

Personally, I don't like the new looks.

JHEM · #2 Post by **JHEM** » Sat Mar 11, 2006 9:26 pm

cerebral_mamba wrote:Personally, I don't like the new looks.

Touch of cabin fever Mamba?

Regards,

James

cerebral_mamba · #3 Post by **cerebral_mamba** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 1:15 am

Gosh!!! This is impossible.... how can you folks not care and worst, how can you like the new plain looks Apple imitation attempt of Lenovo??

Worst, the new CHEAP looking ThinkVantage, Power & Volume buttons.

#4 Post by **Kyocera** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 1:38 am

Looks are important but in some ways you can get used to even what appear to be horrible changes at first, they will "grow on you". As long as they keep the overall style I'm getting a t60, and have heard comments about the looks of it from both sides of the spectrum.

cerebral_mamba · #5 Post by **cerebral_mamba** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 8:50 am

I still strongly believe that things should not take a negative path... it should not be that the once professional looking "Access IBM" buttons be replaced by a gray Thinkvantage button with Thinkvantage written on the top, instead of on the button... come on, we are all people who know what cost more and what looks professional...

Agree that ThinkPad is not about looks and is all about function... but why simply tamper the identity that took IBM several years to develop and establish?? A perfomctory look at an any IBM prior to the T60 and any half blind will say its an IBM... that is the identity that IBM established over time, which Lenovo promptly destroyed.. its easy to destroy something, but far more difficult to make one....

The cosmetic changes were unwarrented... and I am just suggesting that if Lenovo is trying to imitate the market, you can soon expect colorful, plain looking thinkpads with non-red TrackPoints even. Just remember...... soon the IBM logo will be replaced with Lenovo... and I don't like their changes to the IBM line so far... IMO

cerebral_mamba · #6 Post by **cerebral_mamba** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 8:56 am

It took IBM probably several years of dedication and vision to create an un-disputed identity for their ThinkPads. Lenovo one fine day just strips the ThinkPads of this meticulously created identity. The cosmetic changes they made were not at all required and they did a worse job at it too. Why change something that has a unique well respected identity to make it look more like all the other brands out there?? They tried to make the ThinkPads look plain because that is what most other manufacturers are trying to do. They made rounded edges for the Z series, again because that is what most others are doing. IBM never designed ThinkPads to reflect the trends of other brands... they instead went against the norms making a pure black ThinkPads with boxy sharp edges and fine touches of color to extenuate its beauty.... They made the computer boxy because it made the laptop look smaller, they did not include the windows key but instead included a maping software so as to facilitate the most done task.. TYPING. Most things were done for a valid REASON and not to blindly copy the competition. Lenovo is following other brand trends because they don't have the dedication IBM had.. Sure they may manage to sell the more by marketing, but hey we live in a world were Dell sells the most!!!

I wanted to forward this thread to Lenovo officials (this highest possible) in order to reflect the popular views about the cosmetic changes, but its getting darn clear that most veterans like and appreciate the changes.... in any case i will try and forward it... so be assured that the ThinkPads in future may be looking to look a lot different.

#7 Post by **K. Eng** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 9:03 am

Vote with your $ then. Don't buy a ThinkPad!

cerebral_mamba wrote:It took IBM probably several years of dedication and vision to create an un-disputed identity for their ThinkPads. Lenovo one fine day just strips the ThinkPads of this meticulously created identity.

#8 Post by **JaneL** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 9:24 am

cerebral_mamba wrote:I wanted to forward this thread to Lenovo officials (this highest possible) in order to reflect the popular views about the cosmetic changes, but its getting darn clear that most veterans like and appreciate the changes

Did you even look at the results of your own poll? At this point, you have 11 votes - 2 for, 2 against, and 7 who don't care about cosmetic changes. Don't skew the results when you present them.

AIX · #9 Post by **AIX** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 1:58 pm

I like them both.

ThinkPad R · #10 Post by **ThinkPad R** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 7:29 pm

cerebral_mamba wrote:It took IBM probably several years of dedication and vision to create an un-disputed identity for their ThinkPads. Lenovo one fine day just strips the ThinkPads of this meticulously created identity. The cosmetic changes they made were not at all required and they did a worse job at it too. Why change something that has a unique well respected identity to make it look more like all the other brands out there?? They tried to make the ThinkPads look plain because that is what most other manufacturers are trying to do. They made rounded edges for the Z series, again because that is what most others are doing. IBM never designed ThinkPads to reflect the trends of other brands... they instead went against the norms making a pure black ThinkPads with boxy sharp edges and fine touches of color to extenuate its beauty.... They made the computer boxy because it made the laptop look smaller, they did not include the windows key but instead included a maping software so as to facilitate the most done task.. TYPING. Most things were done for a valid REASON and not to blindly copy the competition. Lenovo is following other brand trends because they don't have the dedication IBM had.. Sure they may manage to sell the more by marketing, but hey we live in a world were Dell sells the most!!!

I wanted to forward this thread to Lenovo officials (this highest possible) in order to reflect the popular views about the cosmetic changes, but its getting darn clear that most veterans like and appreciate the changes.... in any case i will try and forward it... so be assured that the ThinkPads in future may be looking to look a lot different.

this is a beautiful essay.

smugiri · #11 Post by **smugiri** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 8:10 pm

Lenovo actually did a study on this design issue:

check out whichsideareyouon.com where they are currently doing a survey to find out what the world (and not just about 30 users who have bothered to vote at thinkpads.com) think about the new designs and the new titanium option on the Z series.

The world overwhelmingly votes for the new designs with about 43,000 votes for vs. 23,000 aganist for North America, 22,000 for the new design vs. 17000 aganist in the Pacific and 30,000 vs. 27,000 for Europe.

Granted that this is the set of all consumers & browsers who might never ever buy. Actual buyers may have a different distribution in favor of the old look but I doubt that this poll will be off by a great percentage unless it turns out that

- Thinkpads are primarily corporate purchases
- Corporate buyers are more concerned about cosmetics than performance.

I should make it clear that that I believe in the "Henry Ford" school of thought for Thinkpad design: "You can have any color you want as long as its black and you can have any shape you want as long as its a box".

Just putting this little poll in perspective before you send this thread out to Lenovo.

christopher_wolf · #12 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 8:12 pm

Hmmm, I do care, but it seems to me that it is getting a bit bizzare; I hope we don't end up like the iLemmings...

See. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/06/13 ... hinkagain/

Maybe we could benefit from a camp like that called, say, Think Again?

*gets his over-volted cattle prod and some CAT5 Cable*

Now, the going rate is $1,699 for the standard corral and leaflet treatment; $3,000 if you would like to wear leather clothing with the brand name of your choice whilst undergoing the therapy...Everything else should be pretty much the same.

I see I already have a couple of people signed up; any more?

JHEM · #13 Post by **JHEM** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 8:33 pm

smugiri wrote:The world overwhelmingly votes for the new designs with about 43,000 votes for vs. 23,000 aganist for North America,

Blame Canada!

--
James

(Ducking and running!!!!)

#14 Post by **JaneL** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 9:47 pm

JHEM wrote:(Ducking and running!!!!)

Have I told you how glad I am you're back???

smugiri · #15 Post by **smugiri** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 9:54 pm

JHEM wrote:
smugiri wrote:The world overwhelmingly votes for the new designs with about 43,000 votes for vs. 23,000 aganist for North America,
Blame Canada!

--
James

(Ducking and running!!!!)

?? Do we have 43,000 people in Canada ??

((Ducking and running) too!!!!)

asiafish · #16 Post by **asiafish** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 11:37 pm

cerebral_mamba wrote:Gosh!!! This is impossible.... how can you folks not care and worst, how can you like the new plain looks Apple imitation attempt of Lenovo??

Worst, the new CHEAP looking ThinkVantage, Power & Volume buttons.

Apple Immitation? The new Lenovos don't look anything like Apples. Apple laptops maybe one color, but they are GORGEOUS!

#17 Post by **thePCxp** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 2:04 am

I like both the old and new looks.

ThinkPad R · #18 Post by **ThinkPad R** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 9:04 pm

Today I saw a highschooler @ school w/ the new Z60t.

The screen was amazingly bright & clear, although it was quite weak.

The keyboard was very nice. The design was nice too.

The new thinkpad design elements look ugly only in pictures. Seriously, in real life, they look fine. (I still like the older design).

I'm still wondering whether I would buy another ThinkPad 6 yrs from now.

On power on, they have ThinkPad, not IBM ThinkPad sign.

Also, all the icons now look billion times uglier.

#19 Post by **GomJabbar** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 9:44 pm

I'll take the old design over new design. Just like I prefer to have a real person on the other end of the phone instead of an automated voice menu system. So many of the old things just were better. I feel like Ray Highsmith these days.

Thane_Bitter · #20 Post by **Thane_Bitter** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 1:01 am

"The only constant is change..." But.. I'd never though I would say this about a ThinkPad, but the "Lenovoized" version seems dull and boring

. I liked the Red stripes & dark grey buttons; at least they kept the blue enter key... for now. If anything I feel the changes make the ThinkPad look more generic, less unique, basically just another laptop.

There are a few things that come to mind as I look at the “new” look as to the future of the ThinkPad:

Scenario #1
Lenovo’s ThinkPad is not IBM’s ThinkPad

Perhaps Lenovo feels that certain ThinkPad design elements are more “IBM” then ThinkPad, and they are simply trying to revert to a purer ThinkPad look (As I recall, the earliest laptops did not have any red elements, nor did they have “IBM“ so predominately featured on the casing). Lenovo has 5 years during which they may use “IBM” Logo on the product, and wants to work steadily to replace it with theirs. Lenovo wants to be as ubiquitous as IBM was with the ThinkPad brand, and has tried to reinvent it’s self as that image.

Scenario #2
ThinkPad’s Past tradition + Lenovo’s Future innovation.
Consider the value of “legacy”. Perhaps Lenovo was interested in the name & the product. Consider Lenovo, a relatively obscure company until the IBM PC purchase, suddenly becomes the one (if not the) most recognisable maker of PC products. The name is the product, and instantly gives them creditability in a very competitive market. Lenovo quietly increases the quality of their original in-house product and develops new markets (i.e. consumers) that had been other wise abandoned by the big blue years earlier, but still keeps core design elements and business developed by IBM. Buy a pedigree, alter the letterhead, and make a few cosmetic changes and its business as usual.

Scenario #3
What’s a name worth? $Money$!! (Or the “To-Hell-In-A-Hand basket” scenario, whereby “ThinkPad” becomes merely a plastic label)
It may seem pointless to buy a company, as others have so eloquently pointed out, that spent a great deal of time and money in researching and developing a unique identity, only to throw it all away, but who cares – they bought the division for the name alone and plan on trading credibility for cold cash. Building on scenario #2, Lenovo gradually dumps the core design elements of what makes a think pad a ThinkPad. Replace the traditional series lines with newer but less expensive Lenovo models, but with a high mass marketability factor (uber-BLING). Marketing is Lenovo’s new friend (as are Hype, Spin and Bullshi..poop); sales increase but quality drops off, however every month a new model dripping with “new super-blinggyness” gets launched, so no really notices. Ride the name till the wheels fall off and make a fortune in the process. This of course is the worst thing that could happen – well other then Lenovo selling to Dell (punch line!)

Dear God, is that a "Windows key" on the Z60!?

WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(ok I am off coffee and smilies for the rest of the week)

cerebral_mamba · #21 Post by **cerebral_mamba** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 3:59 am

Thane_Bitter wrote:Dear God, is that a "Windows key" on the Z60!? WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(ok I am off coffee and smilies for the rest of the week)

Truly my sentiments... Instead of improving the key-mapping utility, they go ahead and put in that stupid windows key!!!

Website · #22 Post by **tfflivemb2** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 9:17 am

As much as I love the fact that I can spot a Thinkpad clear across a room, Lenovo can paint them all pink for all I care, AS LONG AS they maintain the same quality that IBM has bestowed upon us.

I keep hearing complaint after complaint about the changes in the appearance, but I have yet to hear anyone claim that the actual build quality has changed....granted they are still new to the market, so it will be a wait and see game.

The Insider · #23 Post by **The Insider** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 9:40 am

Maybe that fact that you're not hearing anyone complain about the build quality means they are doing something right.

tfflivemb2 wrote:As much as I love the fact that I can spot a Thinkpad clear across a room, Lenovo can paint them all pink for all I care, AS LONG AS they maintain the same quality that IBM has bestowed upon us.

I keep hearing complaint after complaint about the changes in the appearance, but I have yet to hear anyone claim that the actual build quality has changed....granted they are still new to the market, so it will be a wait and see game.

Website · #24 Post by **tfflivemb2** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 10:18 am

That is what I am hoping.

#25 Post by **GomJabbar** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 1:09 pm

smugiri wrote:I should make it clear that that I believe in the "Henry Ford" school of thought for Thinkpad design: "You can have any color you want as long as its black and you can have any shape you want as long as its a box".

Yes but which car company became bigger and more successful? Why? What did Ford end up doing a few years after the above statement was made?

Some people like the utilitarian design of things. For instance, Scandinavian style furniture is popular with some here in the U.S.. They have successful stores selling such. But yet they are just a niche player. Other furniture of a more elaborate design tends to sell somewhat better (at least for those that don't shop at Walmart). People enjoy seeing beauty in every manner of things they buy. Sure, there is something to be said for simplicity. But even simply designed things that are accented appropriately can be beautiful. [EDIT: I do not mean to state that Scandinavian furniture does not have beauty, rather most people just prefer more intricacy in furniture design.]

Another example. The Japanese tend to decorate with not a lot of furniture and other things in a room. The room could appear sparse, but they accent the room with certain artistic pieces that make the room appear elegant. Well, that's my feeling on it anyway.

The point of the above; removing the color accents from the keyboard is like taking the artistic pieces out of a Japanese room. What is left looks sparse. The poll seems to verify this.

Second point of the above; the most successful businesses are ones that do not ignore the peoples desire for beauty. Utility itself is not enough for a product to remain a popular seller. Look at the iPods. Apple joined utility with simplistic beauty and so far no one can touch them.

christopher_wolf · #26 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 3:59 pm

Just to point out something; the original inspiration for the design of the Thinkpad laptop chassis came from a Japanese Lunch Box, called a Shōkadō bentō I believe (Wow did the keyboard customizer utility ever come in handy there

).

Maybe my Mind has been warped from lworking late at night in my room or in the labs or fumes or something for too long, but the beauty that struck me about Thinkpads came from the "Professional" look they seem to radiate. Of course, it can be painted Pink and still radiate that look as long as it is done correctly, the Pink Motorola RAZR is just such a design. For me, the looks, function, and robustness of the Thinkpads are all intertwined...Which I guess means that every little change will effect everything else and yet somehow come out looking Professional.

Still taking applications for the iLemm..errr...Think Again camp if anybody is interested.

(OK, I promise I will not turn up the cattle prod voltage...too high

)

donking! · #27 Post by **donking!** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 12:38 am

I'm glad to see the preference for the old looks is coming out well ahead of the new looks and the don't care people combined (although I guess you can't really fault anyone for not caring).

We had a good long debate about these and other design changes on the T60, in this thread:

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=21017

The thing to me that was good about the old keyboard and UltraNav design was that it took a relatively stark (all black) look and added touches of highlight to it. Those highlights stood out all the more on account of their all black surroundings. The old design also took a very boxy form and added just a few curves. I think that looked really smart. It made the ThinkPad stand out. And it fit into the overall functional aesthetic of the ThinkPad (since, whether people found it useful or not, the grey function keys and the stripes of color and curves on the UltraNav were intended to increase functionality). Function and form intertwined. I think that's design at it's best.

There were also other quirkly elements that made the ThinkPad stand out and look interesting: the asymmetric LCD hinges, the asymmetric ridges on the LCD frame, the bezel on one side of the T4x, the diagonal interface between the lcd cover and the base that made the T4x look slimmer.

The much more all black generic look that Lenovo is moving towards is much less interesting, to me. Those bits of color and other design elements, though small, stood out strongly. To say nothing of the other quirky elements that are now gone. The all black look just has no flare. And it's been done. Apple did it with the G3s. Dell has done it. It's dull.

christopher_wolf · #28 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 1:37 am

I doubt that many people have participated in the poll as of yet so the results cannot be called, in terms of statistical correctness, significant. The poll results are naturally biased since the thread is viewed and posted on by people looking for it and not necessairly a random sampling of users. There frankly should be an option on there for those or do or would care if indeed so many threads that get started about the design looks of the T60 and either never get anywhere useful or, end on sour notes, or get out of hand. I am up for a discussion about it, but right now it has been hammered out quite a bit and the T60 is already in production; right now, nothing much is going to change that. The next best guess is either a T61, which would continue the chassis of the T60, or a T70 which might have a different chassis altogether. I can't see the case for considering the changes Lenovo made on the T60 as really earth-shattering; some people like it, some people don't. Some people liked the 10.4" screens on the 701C and even some X Series models have screens that are too large for them, but there aren't any more 10.4" screens being produced on Thinkpads.

And if it does come down to it, in the lab, late at night, on the bleeding edge of a deadline; I would rather have the Thinkpad do what it is known for, its job...Looks are important, but I can't see here where they have been degraded enough to effect the prestige of the Thinkpads or even functionality; even if you are a business user, I doubt that the client you opened the T60 in front of would directly point out the change in the Trackpoint hilighting, unless they have been around Thinkpads before (in which case they have already been through this and you have something to talk to them about, thereby helping close the deal anyway

).

dsvochak · #29 Post by **dsvochak** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 11:27 am

I lined up a 701, 560Z and a T23. Because this poll is phrased incorrectly, I voted "I prefer the NEW looks".

The reason this poll is incorrect is the "NEW" look is the old look. The only color besides black on my machines is on the trackpoint (pointer and buttons) and the volume buttons on the T23.

I didn't bother searching, but I wonder if anyone remembers whether there was this much concern expressed about the "NEW look" (e.g. the blue enter key and other color touches) when they were first introduced?

ThinkPad R · #30 Post by **ThinkPad R** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 1:29 pm

Well, the colorification of the thinkpad was probably a step forward.

It seriously looks good especially when the entire thinkpad is black.

Now I think Lenovo's taking steps backward.

It's trying to make itself different from IBM.

For example, they really want to do away with the blue color.

The Smartcard buttons, CD drive button, and other BLUE elements are now silver or greyish white.

New ThinkPad vs Old ThinkPad looks ?? (poll)

Prefer the New (Lenovo) ThinkPad looks or the Old (IBM) ThinkPad looks

New ThinkPad vs Old ThinkPad looks ?? (poll)

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