New ThinkPad vs Old ThinkPad looks ?? (poll)

[bhtooefr]

One SERIOUS annoyance I have... why aren't batteries compatible between, say, a 14.1" WS T61, and a 15.4" WS T61? WHY?

[mattbiernat]

One SERIOUS annoyance I have... why aren't batteries compatible between, say, a 14.1" WS T61, and a 15.4" WS T61? WHY?

whoever designed them wasn't very smart?
so that lenovo can make more money?
some kind of cost cutting reason?

[archer6]

asymetric screen is THE major turn off for me right now. i will wait until T70 shows up.

I could not agree more regarding the off center screen. A dreadful compromise that is difficult to understand.

Although i have never owned any other thinkpad, out of my 3 laptops that i had: toshiba satellite, apple ibook and T60, the thinkpad has the best build quality and the best keyboard.

I've owned an astronomical number of laptops of a variety of brands, and no other brand comes close to a ThinkPad keyboard. The same holds true for build quality and a variety of other areas where a ThinkPad is quite superior. I have been using a ThinkPad as my main laptop for 10 years (upgrading to the newest T series each year) and do not foresee that changing unless there is some major decline in design, quality, and functionality.

That said, I would also like to own a new MacBook Pro just to play with, however the keyboard and old one button mouse is unacceptable. I have a Titanium PowerBook with a terrific keyboard, very close to ThinkPad quality. I purchased that Mac laptop in Nov 2002, 6 weeks before MacWorld. In January at MacWorld 2003, they introduced the Aluminum PowerBooks. The keyboards were a huge disappointment as they were very poorly made. Keys came off, etc. I haven't purchased another Mac Laptop since. I was somewhat optimistic when Apple released the MacBook Pro, thinking that they would also enclose it in a new case design with a better keyboard. Needless to say I was extremely discouraged to see them cut corners and simply change the insides. No wonder they overheat, or run hot to such a high degree. At just one inch thick with a poor cooling system, one cannot expect anything less than the heating and other issues they have. A sad commentary about a company that "could" do so much better. Too bad they spend a lot of their resources on the "Hype", instead of the product. They are capable of so much more. Hello Steve?.........anybody home?

[KristianJ]

whoever designed them wasn't very smart?
so that lenovo can make more money?
some kind of cost cutting reason?

In my mind, the most effective cost cutting measure would be to make these T61 batteries cross compatible

[mattbiernat]

They are capable of so much more. Hello Steve?.........anybody home?

and they did so much better before. my mother being in movie industry for the past 15 years had always worked with apple (as this is the must have for AVID). needless to say i observed a slowly declining build quality of their laptops.
i hope the same future does not await thinkpads.

[snife]

I had to laugh at the accusations of Lenovo copying Apple - thats just insane - neither copy each other as they are completely different but coming out with a black laptop after only producing white and silver ones would be more likely to be accused of copying that Lenovo removing the coloured strips.

I think everyone is making too much of small design changes - the grey buttons were only on the keyboard for a couple of generations so there is no heritage in them, as with the blue enter key which i really wish they would remove. There have been many small design changes in the past such as the horrendous cut of corner idea a couple of generations back and I don't remember all this outrage (imho it is occuring now simply because Lenovo bought ThinkPads, not becuase of anything they have done with them).

I need to look out icon drawing I had which showed a cartoony black laptop with a red dot in the middle - this is what makes the ThinkPad iconic in my opinion - they can have variations of black boxes with red dots all they want but they still look like ThinkPads to me, all the other design changes are not a big deal, I like some, I don't like others but this is just getting ridiculous now.

[mattbiernat]

I think everyone is making too much of small design changes

the following are not small changes:
1. flexview
2. sudden drop in support of 4:3 (although 4:3 is back)
3. batteries sticking out
4. screen off center
the following are small changes
1. cheap silver buttons
2. cheap touchpad
3. changes in painting etc
the above is just my opinion.

[ryengineer]

the following are not small changes:
1. flexview
2. sudden drop in support of 4:3 (although 4:3 is back)
3. batteries sticking out
4. screen off center
the following are small changes
1. cheap silver buttons
2. cheap touchpad
3. changes in painting etc
the above is just my opinion.

Sir, your opinion is very irrational.

1. Do you know why IPS is no longer offered by lenovo?

The main reason for discontinuing IPS was that Lenovo was not able to find a steady supplier (of IPS panels ) who could meet the quality requirements from Lenovo.

2. Lenovo is one of the only company (atleast AFAIK) still manufacturing their machines for 4:3 formats.

3. Design matters.
4. Design matters.

5. Lenovo is far from perfection but they try very hard to strive quality products in accordance with best available and acceptable designs but they can't make everyone happy.

[mattbiernat]

1. Do you know why IPS is no longer offered by lenovo?

.

you misunderstood me. that was exactly my point. IBM used to offer flexview and now they don't = big change

]The main reason for discontinuing IPS was that Lenovo was not able to find a steady supplier (of IPS panels ) who could meet the quality requirements from Lenovo[/i].

referance?

Lenovo is far from perfection but they try very hard to strive quality products in accordance with best available and acceptable designs but they can't make everyone happy

i know... i was just responding to the other guy who said that there was no big changes...

and i even quouted him to make it more clear that i was responding to his question.

I think everyone is making too much of small design changes

[snife]

I think everyone is making too much of small design changes

the following are not small changes:
1. flexview
2. sudden drop in support of 4:3 (although 4:3 is back)
3. batteries sticking out
4. screen off center
the following are small changes
1. cheap silver buttons
2. cheap touchpad
3. changes in painting etc
the above is just my opinion.

The poll and most of the moaning was about looks, and this is what my comments were based on (silver buttons, touchpad buttons, stripes etc).

Flexview and 4:3 support as you might have seen from some of my other posts is something that concerns me - I have already started my transition to widescreen TN panels just to get used to the change but I very much believe that 4:3 is superior for most computer uses (although this will probably change somewhat once more apps/web pages are being designed for widescreen). However, I do not believe this is really a design change - these are market driven technology changes and ryengineer is 100% correct that it is mainly a supply issue; Lenovo would probably continue to offer both widescreen and 4:3 if they could but they will simply not be able to as supply lowers and price increases for any 4:3 screens.

The batteries sticking out is not something new - you do have the choice of a flush battery if you want, but if you want extra capacity on your battery then it has to go somewhere; from a design standpoint, as I have mentioned in other posts, i would prefer the battery to stick out the front like Dell do it now.

The screen off centre is not something I like (although i'd argue that those distracting antenna markers are more of an issue) but I would still class this as a small design change and if it allows me to have WAN without an antenna sticking out, better wireless reception and the addition of UWB in the future, then this is something I can live with, it is only offset by about 1cm so I dont think there is really a functional or ergonomic reason that it is bad.

Again i'm not a fan of the silver buttons (although my dislike has lessened with usage) and the new finishes are actually fine (I was a bit warey of the feel on the new LCD rollcage systems but this was just because it was different to what I was used to I think) and I don't agree that cheap touchpad is accurate; it is smaller and it may be cheaper (I do not know) but I think it is superior to the older touchpad, moving greater distances with it seems to be easier (although I don't like touchpads and dont use them much).

[mattbiernat]

well to be more specific the two buttons right below the touchpad feel cheap. they feel really clicky as if they were about to break. but you are right this is a small change. i guess why people are really complaining is because so many changes were brought in such a short amout of time. compare the t61 and t43. then compare the t43 and t30. im sure you will notice much greater differences between the first two than the second two. this is what makes people frustrated IMO.

[snife]

Greater differences between T60 and T43 as between T40 and T30?

I really don't think so - the T30 design elements like the cut off corner, the shiny bar on the back and was generally completely different dimension wise, it had 2 latches, the battery in a different location everything accessed from the bottom, different indicator position, ports in totally different locations etc.

I must admit I found most of the changes welcome as I was not a fan of the T30 but again most of these changes do come down to personal preference but the T30 seemed like a step backwards design wise to me and then the T40 revolutionised ThinkPad design, I feel the T60 was more of a refinement than a complete change.

Do an experiment - get someone to sit a T30, T40 and T60 about about 30 feet away from and it will be easier to spot the T30 than determine the other 2.

[ryengineer]

referance?

Here.

[mattbiernat]

referance?

Here.

thank you for clerification.

[rleo25]

As to the poll. World is not black or white only, in between, there are a lot of gray shades, that is to say that your poll my dear Mamba was somehow biased. I personally don´t agree with all of the current design characteristics, neither I prefer the old design as a whole, and at last yes the issue is of interest to me, so I didn´t find a notch to push... so I stood beside Lenovo... the first option of your poll. Let me explain the reasons.

Design has to deal with formal answers to a specific need, that can have a mix of utility, functionality, delight or comunication. In any way the better the design the better you catch in a glimpse the basic purpose of the object.

Tradition certainly deserves a place in design when the object needs to cummunicate some bond with past values, for example the Santa´s figure by Norman Rockwell, painted in the 30´s is still the favorite of many people, me included... but in laptops... tradition? wouldn´t it be better to pursue for an image of cutting edge advance? I don´t understand why some folks still ask for the IBM´s logo if the owner now is Lenovo, IBM belongs to the past, it is vintage...

Now, the former IBM´s design had some elements that contributed to cast a lightness, portability and update feeling (the recesed borders and sloped front) that was lost in the recent Lenovo´s designs. The screen bezel to me is the ugliest and oldfashioned element the Thinkpads have, however as it fulfils some structural purposes it is accepted until a better solution (that has to come) arrives...

On the other hand, the straight lines in the touchpad buttons and the lack of colour in the whole body... well I suppose Designers were trying to get a cleaner look, as for me that´s ok, It would be better if they put a touch of contrast somewhere, say a change of matte for glossy in some parts of the chasis ... this is a so relative issue that it will be difficult to satisfy everybody I know...

I am convinced that Lenovo´s designers are trying to do their best, and as Thinkpads keep their basic functionality on its higher levels of quality the formal aspects of the product will be a minus part in the purchase decision, but yes it would be better if it were nicer...

That´s your challenge Lenovo.... bring back excellent designers as Richard Sapper and you´ll see extraordinary results in the market share!

[rleo25]

On a second thought. Thinks must be understood to be accepted. Yesterday I said the screen bezel was the ugliest Thinkpad´s part. However, if you think of the bento-box (lunch-box) principle as the starting point for the design proposal, and that you still want to keep it as part of the identity of your product... well there it is... bento boxes are laqued black therefore thinkpad must look like a black box (needing to add some laquer) and if it wheren´t for the laps arround the screen bezel we didn´t have a box like appearance...

So, and uppon such considerations, I withdraw my comment on the ugliness of the bezel, it needs to be just like it is unless you modify your basic design principle (why Thinkpads should look like a bento-box?) or find some more imaginative way to represent what you want. (Does lunch boxes have different shapes?)

Have a nice day my friends and don´t forget to carry your lunch box today.