P is for Portable Server...

[jeremivw]

I'm going to have so much frickin' fun with this thing! Thanks to you all for helping me pass the time, truely.

I'd thought I'd share the plan for my T60p...

I need a portible L4-7 test server. Yep. Server. Multi boot. At least WinXPpro & Linux and perhaps WinServer03 too.

My very own HTTP / HTTPS / FTP / DNS / MCAST / POP3 / SMTP / RTP / RTSP / MMS / TELNET / SIP / SNMP and packet capture/replay server for testing against my (company's) testing appliances and software suites.

I'll have true, live client/server/multi-OS compatabilities & protocol/app testing/demoing/troubleshooting capabilities between various other hardware (pc/nic or real router/switch/firewall/etc) and proprietary software. I VERY much look forward to getting started with it all.

I plan to purchase a 2GB PC2-5300 SODIMM and an ExpressCard/34 1000BaseTX NIC for some software routing / firewall / IDS / IPS options that I'm throwing around, too. With Dual Core 2.0Ghz, 667FSB, 3GB 667Mhz, 100GB SATA7k, dual Gig(PCIe, both!)abit and enough screen res to display it all, I'll be able to really push some serious packet I/O. My specialty is security and statefull traffic generation and this machine is going to get pushed (I guarantee it). Some of our appliances can bring the LARGEST router/firewall/IDS/IPS to it's knees and our Threat Genereations simulate every known virus/worm/trojan/ddos/os exploit known to man (updated daily). If I'm successful, I'll be able to integrate software that usually requires two machines (laptops, in most cases); one for server and another for clients (simulated). My T60p just might be able to handle both (expecially in Linux w/ dual cores).

My enterprise, SP & NEM customers (all of them on one level/layer or another) would kill for what I'm pretty sure I'm going to have (after some more research/work/test).

FYI: for anyone who does not know (no big deal) L4-7 is OSI Layers 4-7 in IP networking. IDS is Intrusion Detection System and IPS is Protection. SP is Service Provider and NEM is Network Equipment Manufacturer. Sorry about that! [censored] acronyms are impossible NOT to use in this industry!

EDIT: If anyone is interested (cool if not) I'll post some connection per second, throughput, open connection and simuser results for various protocols once I've got everything up and running.

[hdahl]

For the T43, the drivers available to not really work well, if at all, with Windows Server 2003. I must say it's totally annoying that IBM/Lenovo does not provide drivers for Windows Server 2003 for these machines. As the infrastructure of Windows in many cases require the services of a server product, you may easily be forced to have Windows Server 2003 on the machine instead of just a client operating system as Windows XP.

Which opinion do the rest of you have on this matter?


Best regards,

Henrik Dahl

[darrenf]

[...]I plan to purchase a 2GB PC2-5300 SODIMM and an ExpressCard/34 1000BaseTX NIC for some software routing / firewall / IDS / IPS options that I'm throwing around, too. With Dual Core 2.0Ghz, 667FSB, 3GB 667Mhz, 100GB SATA7k, dual Gig(MiniPCIe, both!)abit and enough screen res to display it all,[...]

Please clarify. Will you have a total of 4 Gigabit ethernet devices (internet, expresscard, and 2 mPCIe)?

If so, how will you connect RJ45 to the two mPCIe cards (assuming that you can make the T60p BIOS accept them)? It's a pretty tight case unless you pull the optical drive out.

When you do this project, I want photos!

-darren

[jeremivw]

[...]I plan to purchase a 2GB PC2-5300 SODIMM and an ExpressCard/34 1000BaseTX NIC for some software routing / firewall / IDS / IPS options that I'm throwing around, too. With Dual Core 2.0Ghz, 667FSB, 3GB 667Mhz, 100GB SATA7k, dual Gig(MiniPCIe, both!)abit and enough screen res to display it all,[...]

Please clarify. Will you have a total of 4 Gigabit ethernet devices (internet, expresscard, and 2 mPCIe)?

If so, how will you connect RJ45 to the two mPCIe cards (assuming that you can make the T60p BIOS accept them)? It's a pretty tight case unless you pull the optical drive out.

When you do this project, I want photos!

-darren

Sorry, my bad. I just meant PCI Express (PCIe)...not MiniPCIe. The two Gigabit NICs will be 1.Onboard (PCIe) and 2. ExpressCard (again, PCIe). The PCI Express bus should really help push the I/O vs. the older PCI chips...

[darrenf]

Gotcha. Thanks for the clarification!

-darren

[darrenf]

[...]I plan to purchase a 2GB PC2-5300 SODIMM[...]

If you need 3GB of RAM, then you need it but keep in mind that running size-mismatched RAM will turn off dual-channel RAM support. RAM access will be faster with two 1GB or two 2GB sticks (preferably from the same lot).

-darren

[noetus]

For the T43, the drivers available to not really work well, if at all, with Windows Server 2003. I must say it's totally annoying that IBM/Lenovo does not provide drivers for Windows Server 2003 for these machines.
Henrik Dahl

I don't have an opinion, but I do have a T42 with Windows 2003 Server running fine... I haven't had any problems that I think are driver issues specific to the OS I have installed. Drivers are all XP.

[hdahl]

I don't have an opinion, but I do have a T42 with Windows 2003 Server running fine... I haven't had any problems that I think are driver issues specific to the OS I have installed. Drivers are all XP.

Does your wireless card also operate on Windows Server 2003 using the driver from the IBM/Lenovo site?

Best regards,

Henrik Dahl

[southy]

Don't want to interrup here with your nice new toy but I think I'm not getting sth here:
Wasn't the only reason for a "p" model the graphic card?
I mean, all the other stuff (Fast HDD, high resolution, fastets proz) can be configured into a non-p modell as well.
so why get a p if you don't plan on getting any graphic work done?
Want to rotate each IP packet in 3d on screen like a molecule modell?

But anyway, I'm sure you'll have so much fun with it

[hdahl]

Don't want to interrup here with your nice new toy but I think I'm not getting sth here:
Wasn't the only reason for a "p" model the graphic card?
I mean, all the other stuff (Fast HDD, high resolution, fastets proz) can be configured into a non-p modell as well.
so why get a p if you don't plan on getting any graphic work done?
Want to rotate each IP packet in 3d on screen like a molecule modell?

But anyway, I'm sure you'll have so much fun with it

Actually there's usually quite many small improvements in the p-edition, for instance significantly better loudspeakers and the like.


Best regards,

Henrik Dahl

[darrenf]

Actually there's usually quite many small improvements in the p-edition, for instance significantly better loudspeakers and the like.

I'm going to have to throw the BS flag on this one.

I have T42, 43, 42p and 43p's, 14 and 15" models and I don't hear any difference between the speakers in the -p and non-p models -- they all sound like crap. I could check the PNs, but I'm confident enough of this that I'm not going to bother. The -p's even come with the cheap keyboards now (which I routinely have replaced with the Thai model).

Having taken apart a whole boatload of these, the only difference that I see is the video chipset and cooler. Of course, that's enough for me because I game, but in this application I think the original poster is correct to say that a -p model would be a waste of money for a server.

-darren

[jeremivw]

Don't want to interrup here with your nice new toy but I think I'm not getting sth here:
Wasn't the only reason for a "p" model the graphic card?
I mean, all the other stuff (Fast HDD, high resolution, fastets proz) can be configured into a non-p modell as well.
so why get a p if you don't plan on getting any graphic work done?
Want to rotate each IP packet in 3d on screen like a molecule modell?

But anyway, I'm sure you'll have so much fun with it

I bought the Express model T60p because I needed the absolute highest resolution possible (UXGA) combined with a 7200rpm HDD for the best price I could get.

I may play with Half Life2 but even the X1400 would do fine there so I don't really have a justification for the graphics card.

Someday, if I get the chance, however, I will post a link to my Southy inspired IP Packet 3D Molecular Model for all to see!

[jeremivw]

...but in this application I think the original poster is correct to say that a -p model would be a waste of money for a server.
-darren

I admit, I'm a newb...but somebody show me in tabook where there is a UXGA T60 (NOT p)...I don't see it. Even if there were one, it probably wouldn't have the 7200rpm HDD and even if it did, it would still be more expensive than the Express model that I bought...so yes...the GPU may be some overkill for my requirements.

I just went down the line and picked what met my criteria for the best price, guys.

[darrenf]

somebody show me in tabook where there is a UXGA T60 (NOT p)...I don't see it.

Argh! You got me! Schooled by a noob!

You're right and I am humbled.

In my defense, while I purchase 15" models for customers, I've never looked at one for myself because the thing seems as big as an R- series. There *are* non-p 14" SXGA+, but you are correct that there is no non-p 15" UXGA.

-darren

[fbrdphreak]

[...]I plan to purchase a 2GB PC2-5300 SODIMM[...]

If you need 3GB of RAM, then you need it but keep in mind that running size-mismatched RAM will turn off dual-channel RAM support. RAM access will be faster with two 1GB or two 2GB sticks (preferably from the same lot).

-darren

Actually it won't. I tested that in a T43 and 1x256+1x512 worked just fine in dual channel.

Dual channel doesn't do much anyway.

[jeremivw]

If you need 3GB of RAM, then you need it but keep in mind that running size-mismatched RAM will turn off dual-channel RAM support. RAM access will be faster with two 1GB or two 2GB sticks (preferably from the same lot).

-darren

Actually it won't. I tested that in a T43 and 1x256+1x512 worked just fine in dual channel.

Dual channel doesn't do much anyway.

If I'm reading this right, I should expect to get 667Mhz out of my 2GB PC2-5300 SODIMM...is that correct? 667 w/ 3GB?

[fbrdphreak]

From what I'm hearing right now, 2GB can run at DDR2 667. 3GB will only run @ DDR2 533.

[darrenf]

If you need 3GB of RAM, then you need it but keep in mind that running size-mismatched RAM will turn off dual-channel RAM support. RAM access will be faster with two 1GB or two 2GB sticks (preferably from the same lot).

-darren

Actually it won't. I tested that in a T43 and 1x256+1x512 worked just fine in dual channel.

Dual channel doesn't do much anyway.

Let me clarify. If you use two size-mismatched sticks, you can run in Asymmetric Dual-Channel mode, but even Intel acknowledges that "Real world applications are unlikely to make requests that alternate between addresses that sit on opposite channels with this memory organization, so in most cases, bandwidth will be limited to that of a single channel."

In contrast, when the memory is matched it runs in Symmetric mode (also called Interleaved or Locked mode). This effectively doubles the memory bandwidth from 4.3 GB/s to 8.5 GB/s in your system or from 5.3 GB/s to 10.7 GB/s on a T60 w/ DDR667 RAM. Intel also states that "some progress is made even furthering page conflict scenarios," FWIW.

Intel reference for the 915 chipsets can be found in this file.

This is why dual channel doesn't "do much" in your system.

Even in a symmetric dual-channel config, I think I read that the RAM badwidth was outpacing the CPU in the Pentium-M. With two cores in the Duo, I would expect the bandwidth to be fully usable.

BTW: The most obvious improvement from dual-channel RAM is found with users that use integrated video. You can actually see the difference in screen response -- it's quite impressive.

-darren

[hdahl]

Having taken apart a whole boatload of these, the only difference that I see is the video chipset and cooler. Of course, that's enough for me because I game, but in this application I think the original poster is correct to say that a -p model would be a waste of money for a server.

-darren

For the old A22p the loudspeakers were better.

If the person now and then has to work at his server, probably he'll benefit from the UXGA screen in more or less the same way as he would if it had been uses for non-server oriented purposes!

I must say that the arrow keys in the bottom right corner of a T43 (which I actually use for server purposes) I purchased in January are really sloppy. On my T42p and previous p models the arrow keys work just excellent!

I don't know if it's just a new style or it's for instance due to a poorer foundation for the keyboard in the T43.


Best regards,

Henrik Dahl

[darrenf]

For the old A22p the loudspeakers were better.

I won't debate that -- my first ThinkPad was a T40!

I must say that the arrow keys in the bottom right corner of a T43 (which I actually use for server purposes) I purchased in January are really sloppy. On my T42p and previous p models the arrow keys work just excellent!

The T4x series shipped with two dramatically different keyboard, the Thai-assembled one (NMB?) and later a Chinese-assembled one from Alps. The Chinese keyboard, especially at the outset, was absolutely awful. It has been improved, but I still prefer the NMB keyboard and will be disappointed if one isn't available for the T60 (barring significant strides in the construction of the Alps keyboard). The most visible difference between the two keyboards, IMHO, is that the bottom edge of the lower three arrow keys were raised up much higher on the Alps keyboard. They were therefore easy to snag when moving a hand across the keyboard and had more key travel.

Odds are that the keyboard you received in your T42p was the older, better, keyboard. To the best of my knowledge, all T43s shipped with the newer keyboard, even the -p models. Fortunately, the older T42 NMB keyboard was a drop-in replacement and IBM would send them out for free to dissatisfied customers.

One other issue you might have hit against is that the tab on the keyboard tray that snagged the underside of the palmrest was often too shallow and required modification. Several tabs were, actually, but the one next to the arrow pad made the most profound impact as the whole lower-right corner of the keyboard would move up and down as one pressed the keys. Some have fixed this by shimming the underside of the keyboard, but that just moves the flex to less noticeable parts of the keyboard. Reshaping that tab will make the keyboard rock solid. I do this on every T4x keyboard I handle.

The severity of this condition varied between laptop copies, but this problem existed throughout the T4x line. I wouldn't be surprised if that bug had gotten you as well.

-darren

[southy]

I bought the Express model T60p because I needed the absolute highest resolution possible (UXGA) combined with a 7200rpm HDD for the best price I could get.

Ok, I didn't know you'd only get this in a "p".

I may play with Half Life2 but even the X1400 would do fine there so I don't really have a justification for the graphics card.

Someday, if I get the chance, however, I will post a link to my Southy inspired IP Packet 3D Molecular Model for all to see!

Oh, I will so look forward to this! See the little ones whizz by.

Bye,
Southy

P.S.: You knew that one:
http://www.warriorsofthe.net/movie.html

[Herr Yunta]

Where are people reading that the T60 uses 533MHz memory? It uses the 945GM or 945PM chipset that only uses 667MHz memory and runs at a 667MHz FSB. Only the T43 used 533MHz memory.

[pundit]

Where are people reading that the T60 uses 533MHz memory? It uses the 945GM or 945PM chipset that only uses 667MHz memory and runs at a 667MHz FSB.

Probably from this data sheet?

See page 20, for instance. It supports 400, 533 and 667 Mhz memory.

[Herr Yunta]

T60's certainly do not come with 400MHz memory. That intel data sheet is not specific information on the T60.