T60 Lands in Houston

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fullauto · #1 Post by **fullauto** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 10:57 am

UPS just dropped off a brand-spanking new 20075BU this morning.

I guess I'll open the box and have a look...

jobes · #2 Post by **jobes** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 11:02 am

Hang on I'll be down in a minute. I guess...how can you not

fullauto wrote:UPS just dropped off a brand-spanking new 20075BU this morning.

I guess I'll open the box and have a look...

Mandrake · #3 Post by **Mandrake** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 11:03 am

Whoo hoo! Looking forward to your comments on it!

fullauto · #4 Post by **fullauto** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 11:19 am

Just fired him/her up. Blessedly quiet so far.

Man, if you ask me the machine looks and feels great.

Did I mention it is quiet (so far)?

wpwood3 · #5 Post by **wpwood3** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 12:51 pm

Does Thinkvantage on your new T60 offer the option to create recovery CD/DVD's?

The first thing I want to do when I get my T60 is create an as-shipped recovery set as a backup. I would really like to create an entire disk image if Paragon Drive Backup Pro 7.0 will do it. I have yet to find anything Paragon won't image.

fullauto · #6 Post by **fullauto** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 1:00 pm

OK, after about two hours:

- machine is very quiet, even using "Max Performance" in the power manager.

- with the lid open, the base has that distinctive pointy edge on the front side.

- new buttons/coloration on the keyboard are OK. Really. Not my first choice, but they definitely do not signal the slide into cheesedom.

- zero dead pixels. Screen is dazzling. I recently got a new 20" Cinema display from Apple and other than size its got nothing on the T60 15" Flexview.

- keyboard is every so slightly on the plasticky side, but overall pretty good. All buttons are in good working order...

(unlike the T43s that I had...

)

So far, the only problem is with the wireless card... (i.e. it no work).

Finally, forget about using the T43 AC power adapter or T43 batteries on the T60. They are not even close.

Bummer, that.

I am way impressed. After the dreadful trials and tribulations with two T43s, I thought for sure the T60 was going to disappoint.

More later.

fullauto · #7 Post by **fullauto** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 1:11 pm

wpwood3: Yes. All you do is hit the new ThinkVantage candy-metallic blue button and select "Rescue and Recovery". There is an option to save to disk or CD/DVD.

ThinkVantage/Access IBM looks like it has been largely overhauled.

Nice.

pekka · #8 Post by **pekka** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 1:30 pm

fullauto wrote: So far, the only problem is with the wireless card... (i.e. it no work).

Have you switched the wlan on/off-button "on"?

How would you compare that T60 to T43 you previous had? (I finally decided to cancel my T43 order and get T60 2007-49G 14.1" SXGA+ instead and I wonder if I made the right decision...). Have you found any bugs as you might expect to find from these early models of product line?

fullauto · #9 Post by **fullauto** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 1:43 pm

pekka, I will have to play around with wireless card later tonight when I have time to see what is going on...

In my opinion, the T60 is a slam-dunk over the T43. I had two T43s and both had to be returned.

It is still early, of course, I just got the machine this morning; but this T60 is seriously nice. While I was waiting for it to show up, I went around and had a look at some of the competition from DELL, HP, Sony, etc. and this Thinkpad looks like it is is still king.

I even think it gives the new Apple MBP a serious run for the money...

You are going to be pleased.

wpwood3 · #10 Post by **wpwood3** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 4:07 pm

fullauto wrote:- machine is very quiet, even using "Max Performance" in the power manager.

Any issues at all with the "sound" of the 7,200 rpm drive? Some people have voiced concern that it might be loud or emit a high pitched whine.

I had a 10,000 rpm Seagate Cheetah in a workstation that was irritating but I have never had a 7,200 rpm drive that was a probem. Although, that speed is a new thing in the laptop world.

lithium726 · #11 Post by **lithium726** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 5:32 pm

wpwood3 wrote:
fullauto wrote:-
I had a 10,000 rpm Seagate Cheetah in a workstation that was irritating but I have never had a 7,200 rpm drive that was a probem. Although, that speed is a new thing in the laptop world.

i guess youve never heard old non-FDB 7200rpm disks? theyre horrible.

i have a 7200RPM disk in my T40... you can hear it when everything is dead silent, but its not too irritating, and i normally have some other background noise (music, something) going on. I am a real stickler for HD noise, too.

Smilodon · #12 Post by **Smilodon** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 7:58 pm

fullauto wrote:OK, after about two hours:
- keyboard is every so slightly on the plasticky side, but overall pretty good. All buttons are in good working order... (unlike the T43s that I had... )

I've been saying that from my test of he Z60 keyboard (which supposedly has the same keyboard as the T60) and the T43 keyboard side-by-side.

Of course, Thinkpad fanatics and wishful-thinkers would have you think otherwise -- that Lenovo will NEVER take down the Thinkpad quality, EVER!

Even if Lenovo defecated on them with crappy design and aethetics, they'd dellude themselves into thinking it's a polished turd and embrace with fervor.

It's like the boiled-frog phenomenon: Lenovo keeps trashing the Thinkpad quality ever so slowly, small bit by small bit, and people won't realize it until it's quality becomes like that of a Dell, or worse.

Instead of being lame apologetics and cheerleaders for Lenovo and defend the Lenovo reflexively, they should use their head and defend the Thinkpad quality by openly criticizing Lenovo (and even punishing it by abstaining from buying its Thinkpads when it compromises their quality and aethetics -- like they did with the last one) before it's too late.

For me, the last good Thinkpad was the T43p, until Lenovo proves otherwise.

#13 Post by **K. Eng** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 8:14 pm

Smilodon wrote:I've been saying that from my test of he Z60 keyboard (which supposedly has the same keyboard as the T60) and the T43 keyboard side-by-side.

Of course, Thinkpad fanatics and wishful-thinkers would have you think otherwise -- that Lenovo will NEVER take down the Thinkpad quality, EVER!

I ran the exact same test. I went to Office Depot and typed on a T43, and then on a Z60t sitting right next to it. I got the opposite results. The T43's keyboard was msuhy garbage compared to my T40 in terms of feedback, while the Z60t's keyboard felt exactly like my T40's keyboard - perfectly solid.

Even if Lenovo defecated on them with crappy design and aethetics, they'd dellude themselves into thinking it's a polished turd and embrace with fervor.

This is borderline trolling. Putting thoughts in people's heads and words in people's mouths does not make for convincing arguments. If you want to cite examples of zealous idiocy, by all means provide a link.

It's like the boiled-frog phenomenon: Lenovo keeps trashing the Thinkpad quality ever so slowly, small bit by small bit, and people won't realize it until it's quality becomes like that of a Dell, or worse.

Instead of being lame apologetics and cheerleaders for Lenovo and defend the Lenovo reflexively, they should use their head and defend the Thinkpad quality by openly criticizing Lenovo (and even punishing it by abstaining from buying its Thinkpads when it compromises their quality and aethetics -- like they did with the last one) before it's too late.

Do you seriously have any evidence of worse quality? Aside from your Z60 experience?

For me, the last good Thinkpad was the T43p, until Lenovo proves otherwise.

Fair enough. The jury hasn't delivered its verdict on the T60 yet. In a couple months, when everyone has gotten their machines, we'll know if there are any problems.

Smilodon · #14 Post by **Smilodon** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 8:29 pm

K. Eng wrote:
....

This is borderline trolling. Putting thoughts in people's heads and words in people's mouths does not make for convincing arguments. If you want to cite examples of zealous idiocy, by all means provide a link.

....

Do you seriously have any evidence of worse quality? Aside from your Z60 experience?

The zealotry of moderator et al here for Lenovo is quite astounding. Twice threads disappeard from this forum that criticized Lenovo's design changes. One of them got stuffed in an off-topic, deserted corner of this forum so as few people could see it or participate in it. If you don't toe the line and glorify the turds the Lenovo is spewing out today, your thread is suddenly gone with the wind.

In addition to myself and the poster of this thread, I have read twice the same complains about the Z60 keyboards. I don't have the time wade through the forum posts to dig them out.

#15 Post by **Kyocera** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 8:45 pm

Twice threads disappeard from this forum that criticized Lenovo's design changes

Threads are moved to more applicable forums, not deleted. There is no deserted corners of the forum, it has no corners it's a virtual place.

If you read through the other forums you'll see a lot of speculation/paranoia on the Lenovo transition, but as mentioned, quite a bit it is to early to really make judgements. Would you believe the design could get better? It's actually a possiblity, but not discussed much.

jeremivw · #16 Post by **jeremivw** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 8:56 pm

Kyocera wrote:Would you believe the design could get better? It's actually a possiblity, but not discussed much.

That's a very good point and I hope it's the case. Again, it's been discussed in other threads, but the "sell-off" just finished less than a year ago. I really believe that many or most of the same people are working on the Thinkpad design teams and should continue making the product better across MOST criteria (pills and gum notwithstanding).

bral · #17 Post by **bral** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 9:17 pm

Smilodon wrote: The zealotry of moderator et al here for Lenovo is quite astounding.

As a new user here, I'd like to chime in and say that the only thing astounding here is your use of hyperbole. If the moderators were such zealots as you suggest, it's unlikely that they would quote (repeat) your comments in their responses the way they do.

Perhaps you could give it a rest and wait for more comments from fullauto about his new T60...unless I'm mistaken, that's the purpose of this thread.

kaotic504 · #18 Post by **kaotic504** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 10:06 pm

my first Thinkpad was my T22. from there, i had a Sony TR2A and i frequently used my sister's Compaq X1000. the TR2A is a good laptop but it's too small for my tastes now, i need something more function. the Compaq was a great deal but it had a horrible keyboard compared to my T22. i ordered a Z60T in December and when i got it in i was excited about how light it was, but there were a few things that disappointed me: the brightness of the screen and they keyboard. i just didn't feel as good as my T22. i returned the Z60T and i am now getting a T60. i ordered it w/ FlexView, so hopefully the screen is a lot better, but i'm hoping the keyboard is better than that of my Z60t. maybe i just don't know keyboards, but i know of all the laptops i've tried (Dell 600m, HP v2000 series, Compaq x1000, Sony TR2A), i never did like 1 keyboard except my T22, i wish i could take it out and put it on another laptop. i just hope that since this isn't an "all Lenovo" design like the new C-series, this is as close to true Thinkpad quality as we can get for now.

#19 Post by **archer6** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 10:27 pm

If it did not say Lenovo I would not know the difference.
I have been using a ThinkPad as my main computer since 1998.
After 9 ThinkPads that I USE for work constantly everyday, I feel very qualified to comment on the quality of the Lenovo Z60M that I took delivery of 2 weeks ago, and the T60 200773U that I just took delivery of today.
These are outstanding Notebook Computers!
I must admit that after reading some of the reports here and other places I was a bit uneasy, as I had already ordered both the Z60M & T60. The plan was for these two to replace the T42 & T43 that I have enjoyed since new. Well, I'm here to say that not only am I satisfied, I am truly impressed at how good these two machines are. The keyboards are as good or better than my T4x. The displays are impressive, the build quality is tops and overall I could not be happier.

fullauto · #20 Post by **fullauto** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 10:49 pm

Smilodon wrote: For me, the last good Thinkpad was the T43p, until Lenovo proves otherwise.

Interesting. I had two T43s and both were returned. I doubt you will find a more prejudiced, pessimistic customer of Lenovo/Thinkpads than me on this fourm.

I fully expected to return the T60 and be done with Thinkpads.

That got turned around 180 degrees today. Sure my experience is not statistically significant, but I would encourage you to observe your own statement to let Lenovo prove otherwise.

Time will tell. It won't be long now...

fullauto · #21 Post by **fullauto** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 10:57 pm

The 7200 rpm 60 GB drive is really quiet. I hear it whirling, but at a dead whisper. Not noticeable unless you are really concentrating.

As of now, the only thing that is screwy is the [censored] wireless card. I have to be right on top of my WAP to get the card to see it.

Plus the new memory location! Geesus, I have to remove the freak'n palm rest to install a new stick.

OK, that is definitely worse on the T60 than the T43...

jeremivw · #22 Post by **jeremivw** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 11:36 pm

fullauto wrote:The 7200 rpm 60 GB drive is really quiet. I hear it whirling, but at a dead whisper. Not noticeable unless you are really concentrating.

As of now, the only thing that is screwy is the [censored] wireless card. I have to be right on top of my WAP to get the card to see it.

Plus the new memory location! Geesus, I have to remove the freak'n palm rest to install a new stick.

OK, that is definitely worse on the T60 than the T43...

Good, [censored] and hmmmm...that sux.

Is the new mem access due to the roll cage requiring a solid base maybe? If that's the case, it might make the pain worth it. Does it feel REALLY REALLY solid on the bottom?

Also, How big a pain was the mem upgrade? I've got the manual but haven't look it through...how long did it actually take you just to add the mem?

serpico · #23 Post by **serpico** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 12:29 am

fullauto wrote:The 7200 rpm 60 GB drive is really quiet. I hear it whirling, but at a dead whisper. Not noticeable unless you are really concentrating.

Can you feel any vibration from the drive either on the palm rest or on the underside of the laptop? Some users in this forum have commented on vibration from 7200rpm drives, but this may be because they were upgrading these drives into older laptops that weren't designed to house 7200rpm drives.

a_d_y_a · #24 Post by **a_d_y_a** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 9:26 am

pics please

fullauto · #25 Post by **fullauto** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 10:48 am

Jeremivw - I haven't done the memory install yet. I was going to wait for another day or two before I bust into the case. BTW, The bottom does indeed feel very, very solid.

serpico wrote:Can you feel any vibration from the drive either on the palm rest or on the underside of the laptop?

Not really. I don't notice any vibrations out of the ordinary.

OK, here are some pics:

Before T60:

http://home.earthlink.net/~baysystex/tantrum.gif
After T60:

MOD EDIT: Links my friend (and ladies do use this forum too)

hoya · #26 Post by **hoya** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 11:53 am

fullauto - I love those pics. as you can tell from my signature I'm not exactly thrilled with the T43.

I'm curious about the fan noise on your T60. I've seen several complaints about the fans on the T60 being LOUD. and these people are familiar with the T43, etc., so it's not their imagination. not sure what to make of that.

what's the deal with the WiFi? have you tried re-installing the drivers? or disabling Intel's WiFi power mgmt?

some people have better luck using the drivers on Intel's site. not sure if that's an option on the T60.

more deets, please!

fullauto · #27 Post by **fullauto** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 12:26 pm

hoya...i think you are going to be very pleasantly surprised with the fan noise (and heat and battery life and keyboard and display) on the T60.

I was, big time...

Thanx for the suggestions regarding my gimpy WIFI card. I hope to play around with it some more tonight.

I will keep you posted.

Cheers.

a_d_y_a · #28 Post by **a_d_y_a** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 12:36 pm

real pics please

serpico · #29 Post by **serpico** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 1:15 pm

more pics like the second one please!

kaleidoscope · #30 Post by **kaleidoscope** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 1:23 pm

What kind of wireless router are you using? This is sounding like the same kind of wifi problems that people were having with the Intel 2200 card and Linksys routers.

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