Mini review: Advanced Dock with T60p

Message

ianbrom · #151 Post by **ianbrom** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 11:25 am

An update on my efforts.

I wrote to the Lenovo Company Secretary in the UK on this issue.
He arranged to send me a Lenovo badged ATI Radeon C300SE card. This worked after the usual problems of updating the ATI drivers etc but only with the external PCI set as primary. With internal set as primary blue screen parity error etc.

Feeling particularly stubborn one day, I decided to order the latest FRU part number 42W4603 for the dock from IBM Part Sales - this was more expensive than normal price but I could be sure of getting the specific part number.
I have just tried this with the NVIDIA 285 which never worked at all in the old dock. It worked fine. The bios is still set to boot on the external PCI but this gave blue screen on the old dock.
[Update: now tried with internal display set as boot and works fine also with both adaptors visible in Device Manager and windows desktop configurable as on both etc.]
I have yet to try all the other combinations I now have available but may do so just for curiosity. The new dock is also noticeably quieter.
Earlier Lenovo told me :
Regarding the different FRU numbers for the dock, as I asked about this, according to the information
I have there were no design changes connected with the PCI-e slot. So from this view it should be still
the same docking station.
so either this is untrue, or the original dock was just plain faulty along with a lot of others as noted by others.

Lenovo have just agreed to refund the cost of this second dock on receipt of the paperwork.

I gather they are in the process of publishing further support information but not exactly sure what.

Ian

MaloventEvil · #152 Post by **MaloventEvil** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 5:36 am

just to clarify, do you have to shutdown when docking in the advanced dock, or can you dock / undock while the computer is on?

(has anyone tested this in vista?)

oh also, can someone post pics of their dock (pics from all angles)
the only picture that i've seen is the tiny one on the website, i kind of wanted to get a feel for the size, and the layout (especially on the sides where the pci slot and ultrabay are.)

thanks again,
-aurash

MaloventEvil · #153 Post by **MaloventEvil** » Sun Mar 11, 2007 12:55 am

i'm on the brink of buying this, so i'd really appreciate any response!

tmchow · #154 Post by **tmchow** » Sun Mar 11, 2007 4:52 am

MaloventEvil wrote:just to clarify, do you have to shutdown when docking in the advanced dock, or can you dock / undock while the computer is on?

(has anyone tested this in vista?)

would love to know the answer to this as I plan on buying a T60p with a docking station. If you can't undock/dock without powering the notebook down, this is a big downside.

#155 Post by **RonS** » Sun Mar 11, 2007 11:03 pm

Yes, you can dock/undock with the power on just fine. The easiest way is to select Start->Undock Computer. The "Undock Computer" selection appears when the Thinkpad is docked.

There is one big "However." If there is a video card in the Advanced Dock, you can't hot undock. You have to power-down instead. This is a limitation of the operating system, not the Thinkpad hardware. Video adapters do not support hot undocking.

I haven't put Vista on any Thinkpad yet. I will probably get to this in about two weeks. But I'm willing to bet that the behavior will be the same - not hot undocking video adapters.

koan · #156 Post by **koan** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 4:47 am

RonS wrote: I haven't put Vista on any Thinkpad yet. I will probably get to this in about two weeks. But I'm willing to bet that the behavior will be the same - not hot undocking video adapters.

i'm using a new Thinkpad T60 with Radeon X1400 and windows vista and Advanced Dock + MSI Geforce 7600GS + Samsung 244T + 214T

- graphic card a little too big for expansion slot, cover does not fit anymore
- Fans in Dock are horrible noisy - due to extremely complicate disassambly cables cut. no stability problems.
- no hot undocking
- PCIe as primary in BIOS

MaloventEvil · #157 Post by **MaloventEvil** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 6:29 am

koan wrote:
RonS wrote:

the no hot docking could be for a different reason... you are using 2 seperate video drivers, and vista explicitly does not support that for dual-card setups. i just bought mine so i'll let you guys know if 2 ati cards work together well on vista

sierra · #158 Post by **sierra** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 10:03 am

Hi,

can somebody definitely say which one of the Advanced dock (I mean the FRU Nr) works with the XFX Nvidia 7600GT RonS mentioned. And does the XFX 7600GT indeed fit in the dock?
It seems to me like the different cards and the different docks discussed here, work by chance and not by the "superior" work of the Lenovo engineers.
What do you say?

Thesp · #159 Post by **Thesp** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 10:19 am

I'd agree with your post. As no-one has yet identified a common factor to failing or working card-and-dock combinations, it seems that we are still in the realm of the statistical. My comments on this subject are now with Lenovo's management team, and I await an outcome. I do not hold my breath, though...

best,

Mark

MaloventEvil · #160 Post by **MaloventEvil** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 4:32 am

would anyone mind posting pics of their dock? i would REALLY appreciate it, and i'm sure a bunch of others would as well.

MaloventEvil · #161 Post by **MaloventEvil** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 5:14 am

a few questions:

1) has anyone tried running a card external to the dock using a pci cable extender, and providing a desktop power supply to power the card?

2) Is the 1x a limitation of power, or data pins?

3) Also, theoretically, it should simply reduce the bandwidth (used mostly for transferring textures), so by getting a card with say... 512MB ram, we should be able to store more textures, and not hit the bandwidth limitation so much, right?

4) If yes to #1, has anyone tried over clocking the cards?

Thesp · #162 Post by **Thesp** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 9:01 am

Some formal information from Lenovo... more to follow.
the Lenovo X1300LE is certified in a 4-monitor configuration in the dock. Document id: MIGR-67464 last modified: 2007-03-09
http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... MIGR-67464

I do not speak for Lenovo, BUT before doing this, it is important to have ONLY Lenovo drivers on the system (not ATI reference drivers), and it may well be important not to have stressed the dock hardware with more than 50W.

More details for the approved x1300le on the Lenovo site
Also mentioned in the tabook file, p63:
http://www5.pc.ibm.com/us/me.nsf/downlo ... tabook.pdf
and on the page for the Lenovo X1300LE
http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... MIGR-67432

Note this is an X1300LE - a specific Low-Power Enterprise Edition of the card, designed to draw low power from the dock. Other cards are unapproved, and if they draw more than 50W they may damage the dock.

#163 Post by **RonS** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 10:10 am

MaloventEvil wrote:a few questions:

1) has anyone tried running a card external to the dock using a pci cable extender, and providing a desktop power supply to power the card?

2) Is the 1x a limitation of power, or data pins?

3) Also, theoretically, it should simply reduce the bandwidth (used mostly for transferring textures), so by getting a card with say... 512MB ram, we should be able to store more textures, and not hit the bandwidth limitation so much, right?

4) If yes to #1, has anyone tried over clocking the cards?

Read the first page of this thread. I did exactly as you suggested and it does indeed work. Even though the slot is physically x16, it is electrically x1, so you can't get better performance than that.

MaloventEvil · #164 Post by **MaloventEvil** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 10:16 am

i did read the first page; you used an external power supply? Don't some of the higher performance cards have a power connector slot on them?

Thanks again

#165 Post by **RonS** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 11:37 am

MaloventEvil wrote:i did read the first page; you used an external power supply? Don't some of the higher performance cards have a power connector slot on them?

Thanks again

Keep reading. Yes, I did. I dragged a Dell Workstation box next to the dock and supplied external power from it to the video card.

evanr76 · #166 Post by **evanr76** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 12:26 am

I am very curious whether the Thinkpad advanced dock fans whine as loudly when the ATI X1300LE is plugged in, given its "low power" design.

BTW I have been running the Diamond BizView 300 with the RonS "fanless dock" mod for about a month now.

Originally I had even cut power to the video card's fan but this produced a disturbing and noticeable ozone-like smell in my office which abated when that fan's power was reconnected.

MaloventEvil · #167 Post by **MaloventEvil** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 5:19 am

RonS wrote:
MaloventEvil wrote:i did read the first page; you used an external power supply? Don't some of the higher performance cards have a power connector slot on them?

Thanks again
Keep reading. Yes, I did. I dragged a Dell Workstation box next to the dock and supplied external power from it to the video card.

Thanks for the quick response. One last question -- i promise

. Any idea what the most powerful ATI card that actually fits in the dock is? Does it perform better than the internal laptop card? (v5200) Thanks!

biinkbok · #168 Post by **biinkbok** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 8:46 am

I know you can "cut" the cables on the advanced dock to turn off the fan, but can it be turned off in Software?

I ask because I cut them once before, and found that the ATI card I was using became unstable, so I had to reconnect them.

ianbrom · #169 Post by **ianbrom** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 12:17 pm

Now here is something to think about for any hardware experts out there.
With BIOS set to boot internal display, my Lenovo boxed ATI X300SE (supplied by Lenovo as working with the Advanced Dock) was working sometimes and sometimes coming up with the dreaded blue screen NMI: Parity Error.
It is now clear that it works OK only if there is a USB mouse and/or keyboard plugged into the dock ! With nothing attached, it fails. I might try it with just a memory key plugged into a USB port !

Also, I note that the ATI X300SE is noted in the tabook.pdf (link above in Thesp post) as supported but the latest lenovo drivers are dated 2005. When installed, these drivers trash the LCD display on the Thinkpad. An F8 boot up is required in VGA mode to re-install the LCD drivers to get the LCD screen back.

DigitalFoundry · #170 Post by **DigitalFoundry** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 1:45 pm

Hi there,

Just registered on the basis of this thread - the notion of being able to hook up PCIe cards directly to a notebook is very appealing for a project I'm working on.

I've been talking recent to the people at www.magma.com - they have an ExpressCard harness similar in principle to the dock here in that it connects any PCIe card to the laptop.

What you may find interesting is that they highly recommend that you match your external graphics card with the same make as the internal. So hook up an external ATI card if your internal card is ATI etc. They also suggest that some Geforce cards won't work if the external card is a Quadro, or vice versa.

With regards my own project, I don't own the required laptop or the dock and - a bit of a bizarre request - I'm wondering if any of you UK T60/dock owners also own a PS3 or will be getting one at launch? If so, please drop me a line via PM

MaloventEvil · #171 Post by **MaloventEvil** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 5:58 pm

HAHAHAHA. i just looked into that magma expresscard + enclosure: 729$!!!

#172 Post by **RonS** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 1:24 am

biinkbok wrote:I know you can "cut" the cables on the advanced dock to turn off the fan, but can it be turned off in Software?

I ask because I cut them once before, and found that the ATI card I was using became unstable, so I had to reconnect them.

I've never seen any way to control the fans in software. The main fan is always on, and the PCI-Express bay fan is apparently temperature controlled.

ianbrom · #173 Post by **ianbrom** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 3:35 am

I do not think the PCIe bay fan can be temperature controlled as it reacts so quickly. With a Matrox P650 in the slot driving 2 displays, the fan whirrs up with a howl the instant a form is dragged across the displays and slows down again the moment the screen activity stops. I can only guess it is linked to the power drawn by the card - with some cards it seems to not run at all.
[/quote]

DigitalFoundry · #174 Post by **DigitalFoundry** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 2:52 pm

MaloventEvil wrote:HAHAHAHA. i just looked into that magma expresscard + enclosure: 729$!!!

It's a specialist product that does what it does well - the ExpressCard to PCI version is tons more expensive!

MaloventEvil · #175 Post by **MaloventEvil** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:58 am

i just 3dmarked my laptop after i disabled powerplay -- increased my score in 3dmark03 by ~800 pts to 5892. in vista, you can have it auto-turn off powerplay when you plug in AC power.

biinkbok · #176 Post by **biinkbok** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 10:00 pm

I am thinking about cutting the main fan to the dock, but I would like to be able to re-attach the power if I have any problems.

Any suggestions on how to best make the cut?

Thesp · #177 Post by **Thesp** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 7:57 am

Finally it works.

New virgin dock, Lenovo Radeon x1300le as secondary card, latest Lenovo drivers. All works fine EXCEPT Catalyst Control Panel cannot be loaded - causes crash on boot. I think this is due to there being different Catalysts for the FireGL series and the Radeon series.

very happy now.

best of luck to the rest of you all.

MaloventEvil · #178 Post by **MaloventEvil** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 12:38 pm

DigitalFoundry wrote:
MaloventEvil wrote:HAHAHAHA. i just looked into that magma expresscard + enclosure: 729$!!!
It's a specialist product that does what it does well - the ExpressCard to PCI version is tons more expensive!

Well just wait a few months until ASUS' expresscard -> pci-e solution comes out, it will definitely be cheaper than 700$, and will be full length, supporting some serious cards.

akhavan · #179 Post by **akhavan** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 4:00 pm

Hi Thesp,

How many displays do you have connected to your dock?

I have ordered the same Lenovo Radeon x1300le card but I want to run two display with DVI link from my dock. I'm thinking if Catalyst Control Panel is not loading how to do it. I like to have 3 display including my T60P LCD working together.

Do you know if it will work or not?

Sepehr

#180 Post by **RonS** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 5:37 pm

Thesp wrote:Catalyst Control Panel cannot be loaded - causes crash on boot. I think this is due to there being different Catalysts for the FireGL series and the Radeon series.

That's why I have an NVidia card in my dock, so its drivers don't conflict with ATI's.

With this setup, I have three external 24" monitors (1920x1200 DVI) , plus the Thinkpad's 15" monitor.

Mini review: Advanced Dock with T60p

Who is online