Mini review: Advanced Dock with T60p

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tommcfadyen · #91 Post by **tommcfadyen** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 1:25 pm

Thesp & RonS,
Thanks for the tips. I haven't solved the problem, but I am narrowing down the issue with 2560x1600 on my Dell 3007wfp monitor.

I bought another Dual-Link DVI cable in case the one I got from Dell was bad, but no difference.

I set the Connect3D 512MB x1300 Dual-Link DVI card (model 3053) as my primary video card and disabled the laptop LCD/card. I've been cold booting on the Advanced Dock.

I turned off the Symantec firewall, anti-virus, Yahoo IM, etc. and deleted and re-installed the Dell drivers.

From My Computer->Manage->Device Manager->Monitors it still only showed "Plug and Play Monitor". (Same with Display Properties->Advanced->Monitor). I forced it to update the driver by having Windows search for a new driver and loaded the Dell 3007 drivers off the CD. Both places now show the monitor as the Dell 3007.

When I go into the ATI Catalyst Control Center, it recognizes the Dell 3007, but the highest resolution that it shows is 1280x800. When I increase the resolution from the Windows Display Properties above that level I get the panning again.

From Display Properties->Advanced->Adapter->List All Modes, it does show all modes including 2560x1600, so I think the card is fine. I also had the same problem when using the 256MB version of the Connect3D card (although I haven't done as many tests as I have with the 512MB version).

I got this 30" Dell from their refurbished outlet ($1500 vs $1900). I'm beginning to wonder if this is a problem with monitor and/or the port on the back of it.

Any ideas?

Thanks, -Tom

#92 Post by **RonS** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 4:41 pm

That's a heck of a deal for a 30" monitor!

I still think it's on the computer end, not the monitor. I say this because you have a 2560x1600 virtual window inside a smaller physical frame, and the monitor isn't capable of doing that. That "virtual resolution" must be managed by the computer.

If you go to Display Properties and double-click on the 30" monitor, then click in "Adapter" and then "List All Modes..." do you see 2560x1600 listed there? You should. If not, then the driver you have for the card doesn't support that resolution. I'd look for another driver.

Another test you might consider is to install the card and monitor on a desktop computer and see if they work there.

TVSadako · #93 Post by **TVSadako** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 8:04 pm

Hi, I'm a new user that's been following this forum for a while as I am thinking about purchasing an Advanced Dock and using the PCI-Express slot to improve my computer's graphics for gaming (mostly of the Steam variety). I have read through the thread and from the posts have come to the following conclusion: that since the slot is only x1 for speed, graphics cards for gaming won't be as fast as they could be, but there is still a noticeable improvement for adding in a better graphics card than is built in, in my case the 128MB X1400. This conclusion being based upon RonS's 3DMark* benchmarks. Is this a reasonable conclusion? Also, I was wondering if anyone had any frame rate comparisons for an external vs an internal adaptor, I am not sure how to interpret the differences in 3DMark scores and what constitutes a noticeable difference in speed. The 3DMark06 score for my setup should be around 747 based upon wpwood3's benchmark, roughly 1/2 of what RonS was getting for his external cards.

wpwood3 wrote:My T60 is a stock 200768U:
T2500(2GHz), 1GB RAM, 100GB 7200rpm HD, 14.1in 1400x1050 LCD, 128MB ATI Radeon X1400, CDRW/DVDRW, Intel 802.11abg wireless, Bluetooth/Modem, 1Gb Ethernet, UltraNav, Secure chip, Fingerprint reader, 6c Li-Ion batt, WinXP Pro

Here are the results:

3DMarks - 747
SM2.0 Score - 209
HDR/SM 3.0 Score - 314
CPU Score - 1587

ianbrom · #94 Post by **ianbrom** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 1:57 pm

Dustbunny,
You refer to X1300 drivers direct from ATI site which seem to have made a difference for you.
I assume you mean for the internal X1300 (seems to be a lot of X1300s around!).
Could you please provide a link to where these are on the ATI site or a note on how to find them - presumably they need to be the "mobility" ones? I can only find "normal" X1300 - or does that work?
Thanks

at339 · #95 Post by **at339** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 10:27 am

I too have been anxiously watching this thread to find a solution for three external monitors, all DVI capable.

Anyone have a recommendation for a fanless Dual DVI port card that works in the Advanced Dock?

Thanks!!

ianbrom · #96 Post by **ianbrom** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 4:25 pm

I have tried hard to get some support from IBM/Lenovo on this and have been stonewalled really badly.
There was no follow up to my original call until I chased it a week or so later. Then, first I was told only IBM graphics cards were supported - pointed out that IBM do not make any graphics cards , then that I would be emailed a list of supported cards - when I asked where this list was a few days later, I was told he could not supply such a list.
On the warranty side I was told it was a compatibility issue and only the internal components of the dock are covered by warranty. The fact that it is advertised as supporting a range of graphics cards for multiple monitors seemed to cut no ice and IBM/Lenovo do not seem to be prepared to identify any card which they say should work. This neatly lets them off accepting that the PCI slot has problems - it must always be the wrong card even it works for other people.

Anyway, I tried the NVIDIA Quadro NVS 285 again - first I removed the additional 512 RAM and the hard disk in the dock ultrabay. This time I did not get any blue screens. However Windows restarted a number of times unprompted. Finally I got to install the NVIDIA drivers. It all worked btu then the screen just kept locking after a fairly short time. Sometimes Windows would automatically restart sometimes not.
Only the NVIDIA adaptor was visible in device manager when started in the dock.

I also tried the Matrix G550 (not the low profile one) again. This worked before the drivers were installed - and both the internal and G550 were visible in the device manager after the drivers were installed. But on reboot neither the LCD nor external screens would show anything at all - this with internal graphics as primary.

My P650 which I was using with the card fan disabled locks up in the afternoon after a long day !. Presumably getting hot? But with its fan running and the card bay fan also, it howls like a banshee every time a window is opened or dragged.

This really is an expensive disaster and not what I would have expected from IBM/Lenovo.

DustBunny · #97 Post by **DustBunny** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 3:39 am

Hi

The ATI drivers I used were found on the ATI.com site.. I have tried to copy the link directly however it will not..

So here goes..

http://www.ati.com

Click Drivers and Software from the ring menu and select your opertating system (I'm on XP)

That provides a link to "Windows XP Drivers and Software".

Following the link, gives a list of all the different product types, choose the RADEON one.

The drivers I cholse from the displayed screen where the Catalyst 6.8 Windows XP - Driver Download

These worked ok for the two machines here. The docking bay card will not requrire mobility drivers, only the standard ones.

Hope this helps..

#98 Post by **RonS** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 11:14 pm

When installing the driver for a secondary video card, I never let the full installation take over. I'm always afraid that some of the utility programs may overwrite the software intended for the primary adapter (this is especially true if you're installing the same brand add-on card as you primary. For thinkpads, that would be ATI-based cards in the Advanced Dock).

I think the best strategy is to:
1. Start the video driver installation package. Let it create an install directory and populate it with its files.
2. When prompted with something like "Do you want to install driver software for bla bla bla" say NO. Cancel out of the install.
3. Tickle Plug-and-play to come alive (either re-boot, use "Add Hardware" in the control panel, or run the Device Manager and select Action->Scan for Hardware Changed)
4. Follow the prompts to select the driver manually, and then browse to the directory created by the driver package
5. Let PNP install only the essential driver files.

I've always followed this strategy, and I have a good history of success running a broad mix of video cards.

mattbiernat · #99 Post by **mattbiernat** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 11:23 pm

ianbrom wrote:I have tried hard to get some support from IBM/Lenovo on this and have been stonewalled really badly.
There was no follow up to my original call until I chased it a week or so later. Then, first I was told only IBM graphics cards were supported - pointed out that IBM do not make any graphics cards , then that I would be emailed a list of supported cards - when I asked where this list was a few days later, I was told he could not supply such a list.
On the warranty side I was told it was a compatibility issue and only the internal components of the dock are covered by warranty. The fact that it is advertised as supporting a range of graphics cards for multiple monitors seemed to cut no ice and IBM/Lenovo do not seem to be prepared to identify any card which they say should work. This neatly lets them off accepting that the PCI slot has problems - it must always be the wrong card even it works for other people.

Lenovo customer service is a joke. I called them intersted in buying a computer and they did nothing but insulted me.

astpaul · #100 Post by **astpaul** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 4:05 am

OUt of curiosity, did someone tried the VTBook : http://sewelldirect.com/vtbookpcmciacard.asp ?

Is it a viable solution?

#101 Post by **RonS** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 11:18 am

astpaul wrote:OUt of curiosity, did someone tried the VTBook : http://sewelldirect.com/vtbookpcmciacard.asp ?

Is it a viable solution?

I have one right here (Single monitor version). Yes, it's a viable solution. But it gets really hot, it's bulky, and text is very slow. I like the Margi Display-to-go better, even though it's discontinued.

biinkbok · #102 Post by **biinkbok** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 1:31 am

OK, 2am, tried and frustrated

I purchased a Connect3D X1300 and installed it in a brand new Advanced Doc shipped straight from Lenovo with my T60p (x1400 installed)

I set the BIOS to boot from PCI-e. It finds the card, and it seems to work fine, but it won't support the dual link res of a 30" Apple Cinema Display. (incidentally under this config the t60 doesn't see the internal adapter, and PNP won't seem to enable it unless I set it to boot internal, and then it finds it, and gives the parity errors arrgh!)

The monitor mode shows that it is supported, but it seems to "think" it's in 2560x1600, but I am getting 1280x800 with scaling.

I seem to have the same problem as a previous poster had with the Dell 30" displays.

Many folks seem to have gotten the ACD to work on a PC, so I think this is a adapter/driver issue.

I saw one review of the Connect3D card that stated the reviewer got a "pre-release" non-dual link card! Made me very skeptical.

I want to go out tommorow and try some other cards, perhaps staying away from ATI (driver conflict?)

My thoughts are with the NVIDIA 7800 GTX or the NVIDIA 7600GS (256MB for both).

I just want to have a simple card to do dual link, no gaming.

I want to disable the fan, and use the internal fan in the dock.

Any help or guidance would be appreciated.

Brett

Thesp · #103 Post by **Thesp** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 3:38 am

OK, going off at a tangent here...

If any of the people who reported problems with the Dock and a PCI-E graphics card could answer the following question, it might have a bearing:

What is the memory size on the PCI-E graphics card that failed (both true memory and if applicable hypermemory-ish things)?

What is the memory configuration of the T60p system, and has it been added to with a 3rd party module?

I'm wondering if there's not some crossover with the Parity Errors observed with certain two-SODIMM configurations reported elsewhere...

I shall be with the machine again in a few days time, and a new dock is scheduled to arrive. I shall try:
1. Different driver revisions / Omega drivers etc
2. Different cards in different primary/secondary configurations
3. Removing memory modules

and then I shall report.

ianbrom · #104 Post by **ianbrom** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 4:00 am

Thesp,

I have T60 2007 F2G - extra 512MB IBM/Lenovo memory installed.

Dock Part no 26R9060

Have tried:
Matrox G550 (not low profile) 32MB - kills all displays including internal LCD !
Matrox P650 - works - fan is too noisy to live with when driving a pair of monitors - currently using this with internal card driving one monitor and P650 driving one - not ideal.
NVIDIA Quadro NVS 285 - 128MB - parity errors, lock ups, reboots - completely unstable system

By the way, I have seen it stated elsewhere that PCIe slot is limited to 50W power - it is also stated in this obscure link:
http://www.pc.ibm.com/partner/ap/downlo ... BPs_r2.pdf

Thesp · #105 Post by **Thesp** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 4:09 am

Yes, I saw that power limitation too... trouble is, getting accurate figures for card power draw is not easy...

biinkbok · #106 Post by **biinkbok** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 5:35 am

To be clear, I don't need to run the internal display when I am running the external 30". so all I need is a simple dual link card that works in the doc.

No need for interaction with internal dsiaply.

Thesp · #107 Post by **Thesp** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 1:46 pm

Right. Radeon X1300 PCI-E 512Mb in dock

Old dock + omega drivers fail as before.
New (CRU) dock succeeds with three monitors - for about an hour.

Card as secondary, internal as primary. No NMI/Parity errors. This is a good thing. Although card is secondary, dock fans are whirring at top speed. Three monitors, four if you include the laptop's LCD! All beautiful.

The, after about an hour, no whirring from the dock fans after a reboot! And no X1300 adapter in device manager, and certainly no extra screens. And this is where you find me now. I once had it, and it stopped. Was the card overheating? Was the power draw too great for the new dock, and thus killed whichever bit of sensitive equipment in the dock controls the card? I am about to try with the card as primary after physically unplugging and replugging the dock (try and reset it's internal error condition and make it find the card).

And after that, I am cutting my losses and waiting for Lenovo to acknowledge this as an issue. I have neither the time, money or energy to waster further time with this.

biinkbok · #108 Post by **biinkbok** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 1:49 pm

I was able to get a Visiontek X1300 512MB to work in the advanced dock and drive a dual link 30" Apple on the primary display.

I used the latest ATI driver for the X1300. The port was set to boot PCI express as primary.

I am not even going to try getting the internal adapter to work. I am sure I will get parity errors.

This card has two DVI ports, so was also able to drive a second monitor attached via an analog DVI->VGA adapter, but when I tried to go direct to DVI it would not display. It was able to find the monitor (Samsung 215TW) though.

Weird.

Thesp · #109 Post by **Thesp** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 1:55 pm

X1300 in dock, now as primary. Two screens and whirring fans. Internal FireGL is now missing. No LCD or centre monitor.

Out comes the card. I conclude that there is no reliable way to get a PCI-E card working simultaneously with an internal card.

We await Lenovo to announce as such...

biinkbok · #110 Post by **biinkbok** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 2:03 pm

I was able to get the DVI port to work at 1650x1050 for the second monitor. I needed to toggle the monitors source to look for DVI.

This is a perfect solution for running two DVI heads. I am not sure, but it might even drive 2 x 30" displays.

Can't say it will work for anyone else.

BTW, I never installed the Catalyst software, just the base drivers for the internal/external cards.

b

biinkbok · #111 Post by **biinkbok** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 2:10 pm

Thesp wrote:X1300 in dock, now as primary. Two screens and whirring fans. Internal FireGL is now missing. No LCD or centre monitor.

Out comes the card. I conclude that there is no reliable way to get a PCI-E card working simultaneously with an internal card.

We await Lenovo to announce as such...

What x1300 card were you using? If you need to drive 2 x DVI then the Visiontek may work, and then you don't need the internal monitor.

biinkbok · #112 Post by **biinkbok** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 3:32 pm

biinkbok wrote:I was able to get a Visiontek X1300 512MB to work in the advanced dock and drive a dual link 30" Apple on the primary display.

I used the latest ATI driver for the X1300. The port was set to boot PCI express as primary.

I am not even going to try getting the internal adapter to work. I am sure I will get parity errors.

This card has two DVI ports, so was also able to drive a second monitor attached via an analog DVI->VGA adapter, but when I tried to go direct to DVI it would not display. It was able to find the monitor (Samsung 215TW) though.

Weird.

For the sake of completeness, I tried switching the bios to boot internal and it gave me parity errors.

This is something that can be easily replicated, it would be nice if Lenovo would agree to do some testing. Perhaps something can be resolved in a new bios/driver that can help everyone, or at least confirm it's not going to work ever.

That would sure help a lot of folks who want to use the internal card WITH an external card.

b

Thesp · #113 Post by **Thesp** » Thu Sep 07, 2006 2:10 am

bb - I'm looking for triple VGA output, so I need simultanous internal and external.

Very weird it worked for an hour before packing in...

tradersworld · #114 Post by **tradersworld** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 2:35 pm

We have a review of the Thinkpad T60p with the Advanced Docking Station. We tested several multiple-port video cards from PNY, Matrox and ATI. Some of the cards tested were successful and others not. These video cards were successful and had no problem:

NVS440 PNY NVS 440 (4 DVI Port) Video Card
NVS285 PNY NVS 285 (2-DVI Port) Video Card
Q1DE128LPAF Matrox (4-DVI Port) Video Card
P65MDDE128F Matrox (2-DVI Port) Video Card

For more information please read the review. The review is designed more for traders in the financial markets.

http://www.tradersworld.com/computers/T ... ation1.htm

Thesp · #115 Post by **Thesp** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 4:21 am

tradersworld: This is superb news, a well-written and helpful review and a useful selection of tested cards. However, I do have a few further questions, if you have the time to answer them.

1. In your review you state

The Thinkpad T60p with the docking station for multiple-monitors is highly recommended. There are several tweaks that are necessary to configure the unit to work perfectly for the trader. You need to talk to us directly in regard to these. Some of these tweaks are too complex for the average computer user. www.tradersworld.com or call 800-288-4266.

Would it be possible, since many of the forum users are well above the 'average' computer user, to post a summary of these tweaks here? It would both help others to use their systems, and help to analyse the cause of the incompatibilities.

2. What cards did you try and have fail? I note your screengrabs show an ATI FireMV 2400 installed.

3. Did you achieve multi-monitor using both the PCIe card and the dock VGA connectors, or did the internal graphics card not coexist with the PCIe card well?

tradersworld · #116 Post by **tradersworld** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 9:30 am

We do some tweaks to the T60p computer in the registery that disables some parts of Microsoft XP Pro that allows the computer and the video card in the Advanced Docking Station to run much faster.

We tried the ATI FireMV 2400, but it did not work. It seems to have both hardware and software conflicts with the T60p. The ATI FireMV 2200 did work.

The internal T60p video card did not work and coexist with the video card in the docking station.

We were able to set it up so it autoconfigured itself both ways. So when you placed the T60p on the docking station and turned it on you would automatically get 4 monitors to light up. Turn the computer off and release it for the docking station and you would get just the laptop screen. It was not necessary to do any adjustments in the display properties.

It worked like a charm.

#117 Post by **RonS** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 10:03 am

tradersworld wrote:We do some tweaks to the T60p computer in the registery that disables some parts of Microsoft XP Pro that allows the computer and the video card in the Advanced Docking Station to run much faster.

Great article! Thanks for putting it together. Can you elaborate on what "tweaks" you did to the Registry to improve performance?

tradersworld · #118 Post by **tradersworld** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 11:21 am

The Some tweaks we do are:

Turn off:
- Diable Error Reporting
- System Restore
- Automatic Updates
- Turn off Indexing
- Launch folder
Move Print Spool Directory
Move My Documents Folder
Disable Disk Performance Counters

Also we have found that the Docking Station needs to have the latest bios update. The one that comes out with most of them is the old bios which has many problems.

Thesp · #119 Post by **Thesp** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 4:00 pm

Excellent. It's off for a four-monitor card I go...

ianbrom · #120 Post by **ianbrom** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 12:49 pm

I just want to confirm that my Matrox P650 works happily alongside the internal graphics adaptor - both are visible in device manager etc and I can drive external DVI monitors off the internal and PCIe cards at the same time. Internal is set to primary not the PCIe card.

However, unlike Tradersworld and others, I have been completely unable to get the NVS 285 to work despite many attempts. The whole system becomes completely unstable exhibiting a range of different failures as noted in earlier posts.

There just does not seem to be any consistency here. There is a missing critical element somewhere.

I am OK on software development but not paritcularly strong on hardware. Am I correct please in reading that tradersworld is saying that there is a necessary bios update for the dock itself ? If so could you please provide a link or other additional information on how to obtain it.

Thanks

Mini review: Advanced Dock with T60p

Dual DVI card that works?

ianbrom

Connect3D, Apple 30" Monitor > could not get full re

Need Just a solution to Dual Link in ADV Dock

Working Config

Slight Correction

Re: Working Config

Review of Thinkpad T60p with Advanced Docking Station

Tweaks to the Thinkpad T60p and Advanced Docking Station

Re: Tweaks to the Thinkpad T60p and Advanced Docking Station

Tweaks for the T60p with Docking Station

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