Is 15" Flexview really worth it?

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candyman · #1 Post by **candyman** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 11:56 pm

Hi everyone. I have read various post on the Flexview option for the T60 and I would like to get someone's opinion that has seen or had both of the screens, 14" and 15", is the Flexview really worth it and does it actually feel a lot heavier than the 14". I would mostly use the laptop at my office and the occasional traveling, 5 times a year. Any input would be much appreciated.

Thanks

kskim91 · #2 Post by **kskim91** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 12:05 am

The UXGA flexview is just wonderful if you need the realestate and your eyes can tollerate the smaller font sizes. Weight wise, in a bag I could not in truth tell the difference between the the 14in and 15in. On the laid out on a desk there is a great difference in size.

If you mainly using it in an office then I would go for the 15in and grin and bear it on the infrequent trips.

dr_st · #3 Post by **dr_st** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 3:03 am

Yeah, I'm with him. Frankly, I can think of only a few cases where the extra size and weight of the 15" model will be a major issue. It's still quite light. I carry it to and from the office a couple of times a week and it's not a problem. But the screen is just superb.

donking! · #4 Post by **donking!** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 4:54 am

I don't know that I would describe either the 14" or the 15" T60s as light. They're in the 5 to 6lb range. You notice that, I think, when you're carrying it. I think the only truly portable and easy to carry around all the time notebooks are the 12" 3.5lb or less notebooks. I did get the 14" because I wanted to minimize weight. But it's still a fairly big thing, to me.

So that said, I'd go with the screen you like. From what people say here there's a pretty significant difference in brightness, color depth, and viewing angles. I can vouch for the 14" not having very impressive viewing angles. I think the color is pretty good though. And the brightness is serviceable, though a bit limited.

pundit · #5 Post by **pundit** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 9:00 am

I have seen the 14" and 15" side by side, and the 15" totally outclasses the 14" in terms of colour rendition, brightness, viewing angle, contrastiness, ...

And font sizes can be changed, please don't be one of those people who believe increasing screen resolution means harder to read fonts.

That said, though the 14" and 15" are both "in the 5--6 lb range", the 14" feels a lot more compact and slim. You will definitely notice how much more bulky the 15" is (or seems). But since you say you're only going to move it around a few times a year, I would say the 15" ought to be what you should go for if cost isn't an issue.

candyman · #6 Post by **candyman** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 9:00 am

I appreciate all your input..ok here is what I am looking at.

1) 200783U ThinkPad T60p - 2.16 dual core, 2 gig ram, 100 gb/7200, 256mb video, 14.1 for $2865

OR

2) 2623DDU T60P - 2.0 Dual core, 1 gig ram, 100 gb/7200, 256mb video, 15 w/Flexview for $2479. (i can always upgrade the ram to 2 gig and still be lower than option 1)

The main difference is the 2.16 compared to the 2.0 dual core and the screens.

Just wanted to see what you guys would prefer? I know that there is a difference i weight, but aside from the weight, what would you buy?

Thanks again for your time.

Greg Gebhardt · #7 Post by **Greg Gebhardt** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 9:08 am

The 15" Flexview is my favorite. Had this screen on my T43p and now my new T60p and could not imagine not having it. I am "older" and wear glasses but there is no problem for me to put two excel spreadsheets side by side and work on both.

I am not saying it is for everyone as I have a friend who loves his 14" non-Flexview screen, but it looks somewhat poor to me.

pundit · #8 Post by **pundit** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 9:34 am

candyman wrote:I appreciate all your input..ok here is what I am looking at.

1) 200783U ThinkPad T60p - 2.16 dual core, 2 gig ram, 100 gb/7200, 256mb video, 14.1 for $2865

OR

2) 2623DDU T60P - 2.0 Dual core, 1 gig ram, 100 gb/7200, 256mb video, 15 w/Flexview for $2479. (i can always upgrade the ram to 2 gig and still be lower than option 1)

I have only worked with the 2.16 GHz, but I don't for one second believe that I can tell the difference if I worked with the 2GHz instead. I, personally, don't mind the added bulk, so would go for the 15".

Rory · #9 Post by **Rory** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 11:45 am

Greg Gebhardt wrote:The 15" Flexview is my favorite. Had this screen on my T43p and now my new T60p and could not imagine not having it. I am "older" and wear glasses but there is no problem for me to put two excel spreadsheets side by side and work on both.

I'm "older" too, and I'm agonising over which dispay to get - I like a big and bright display so a 15" Flexview sounds great, but I have to look at stuff on the Internet quite a lot and I'm concerned how web pages will look on an SXGA+ (1400x1050) screen. I know you can enlarge the text (I use Firefox) but sometimes the page can get very messed up.
Any comments on that?

dr_st · #10 Post by **dr_st** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 12:44 pm

Rory wrote:I'm "older" too, and I'm agonising over which dispay to get - I like a big and bright display so a 15" Flexview sounds great, but I have to look at stuff on the Internet quite a lot and I'm concerned how web pages will look on an SXGA+ (1400x1050) screen. I know you can enlarge the text (I use Firefox) but sometimes the page can get very messed up.
Any comments on that?

I can comment by saying that I got all the fonts and sizes perfect to my liking on my SXGA+ 15" Flexview screen. Reading is comfortable and hardly anything is messed up. It was a bit more tricky than increasing DPI, though. First I had to adjust some default system fonts and desktop icon size/spacing, because by default if you just increase DPI it looks cramped and ugly. Then in Firefox I had to increase several default font sizes (in about:config) and in Explorer I set a flag to ignore page font sizes and use a predefined size of my choice.

The Bard · #11 Post by **The Bard** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 12:52 pm

dr_st,

Can you please explain in a little more detail the exact steps you took? I am the proud owner of a new T60 with a 15" SXGA+ screen. I was concerned about the font size. For those in the same category, let me say that the font is a bit small on this screen. Yes, I wear glasses, but my eyesight is fine with specs. I guess it's just personal preference. I changed the DPI setting, but it doesn't get applied uniformly across all web pages, so many pages appear really funky. Text on the same page, for example, could be dramatically different in size with the higher DPI. Am considering giving Liquid View a try. Basically, I'd rather not have to strain to see text if I don't have to. Don't get me wrong, the clarity, color, etc. of the Flexview screen is beautiful. But, once again, I don't want to strain my eyes if I don't have to. Also, this is really only an issue with web surfing. With other applications (i.e., Office Applicatations) it's easy enough to increase the zoom to make it comfortable to read. Thanks.

donking! · #12 Post by **donking!** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 3:39 pm

Yeah, dr_st, can you explain more specifically how you adjust the desktop icon size and spacing. and also what you did in Firefox? I adjusted the minimum font size in the Firefox options, but this does sometimes mess up the layout of web pages.

That said, I don't think the font size issue is a reason to choose between the 14" SXGA+ and 15" screens since you're going to have similar issues and want to make adjustments on both. The 14" with no adjustments gives you pretty tiny text.

I also don't think the difference between the 2.00 and 2.16 GHz processors is something to worry about. That's an 8% speed difference. People quibble about these sort of differences. But I think very few people will notice the difference at all. I think you have to get into the 30-50% speed difference before most people will notice for most general puposes. Only if you have some hugely time sensitive number crunching, data processing, tasks that you do regularly, would I think the 8% speed difference would be worth the money.

candyman · #13 Post by **candyman** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 5:29 pm

Hi guys, thanks for everyone's input. After taking in everyone's remarks, I am going to cancel my order for the 14.1" T60P and going to get the 15" T60P. Thanks again for your thoughts and I will give you my review of it when I get it. Hopefully in the next 2 wks. Thanks.

#14 Post by **archer6** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 7:19 pm

candyman wrote:Hi guys, thanks for everyone's input. After taking in everyone's remarks, I am going to cancel my order for the 14.1" T60P and going to get the 15" T60P. Thanks again for your thoughts and I will give you my review of it when I get it. Hopefully in the next 2 wks. Thanks.

Great decision!
Even though I have a T60 (not T60P) I am extremely happy with the 15" display. As far as the extra bulk and weight, frankly I simply do not notice it. After all dimensionally, it's only a small bit larger. The Flexview alone is stellar. I'm sure you will be very happy. Any feedback on how long you will have to wait? Exactly what model did you order?
I'm still thinking about returning my T60 or a T60P, so I"m looking for as much feedback as possible.
Thanks!

Phantom Gremlin · #15 Post by **Phantom Gremlin** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 1:46 am

My thinking is exact opposite of people above.

At work I keep my T42 lid closed. I have a Dell 24" LCD at 1920 x 1200 via DVI. Quite easy to get a wide spreadsheet on that.

For home office I'm considering getting a 19" LCD with 1280 x 1024. That would mean nice large pixels.

For surfing in front of TV I like the large fonts of the built in LCD, 14" 1024 x 768.

I don't understand why people don't hook up their laptop to a nice big monitor whenever practical. Much nicer than any laptop display IMO.

Various colleagues want hi-res screens so they can be more productive when at meetings away from their desk. I tend to avoid those situations.

Rory · #16 Post by **Rory** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 7:22 am

donking! wrote: That said, I don't think the font size issue is a reason to choose between the 14" SXGA+ and 15" screens since you're going to have similar issues and want to make adjustments on both. The 14" with no adjustments gives you pretty tiny text.

In my case I currently have 14" at XGA (on a Compaq Evo).
However I understand that the T60 15" displays are brighter anyway (brighter than the T60 14" XGA ones) and the Flexview displays are even better, especially viewing angle.
A 15" XGA Flexview would be my ideal!
I'm really trying to figure out if a 15" SXGA+ Flexview is going to look OK if I resize the fonts etc to make everything easier to read (especially on Firefox).

dr_st · #17 Post by **dr_st** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 4:48 pm

Considering that my other laptop is a 14" XGA Compaq Evo, I'd say that it's very much possible to make 15" SXGA+ as comfortable as 14" XGA.

To those guys who asked me to be more specific about my adjustments, I will post these, hopefully tomorrow. Unfortunately I'm not on the laptop now and I don't remember my exact settings.

dr_st · #18 Post by **dr_st** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 6:35 am

OK, here is how I adjusted my settings on my 15" SXGA+ T42:

First of all, the DPI (in Display Properties -> Settings -> Advanced) is set to 120 (125% of normal size)

Next, in Display Properties -> Appearance -> Advanced I have the following (I don't remember which settings are default and which are adjusted, so I'll post all of them):

Font size: 8 (for all items that have font size)

Icon: Size = 35, Font = Tahoma, Size 8
Icon Spacing (Horizontal/Vertical): 50/50

Window borders are size 1, scrollbar is size 16, everything else that has size (menu, title, etc) is size 24. I think these are the default values.

Finally, in Display Properties -> Appearance -> Effects I have "Use large icons" disabled and Cleartype enabled.

That's as far as Windows general settings go.

Now, in Firefox (version 1.5.0.2, previous versions have menus rearranged somewhat differently) I have the following:

Options -> Content:

Fonts&Colors: Default Font = Arial, 18
Fonts&Colors,Advanced: Allow pages to choose their own fonts is enabled. Proportional font for all languages is Serif, 18, while monospace font for all languages is Courier New, 15 (except some languages that don't support Courier New, but I don't need them anyway).

With these settings I have the following looks (the images are fullsize, 1400x1050, so naturally I'm not posting them here, but linking to them):

Desktop: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v65/d ... NukeBg.jpg

Windows Explorer: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v65/d ... plorer.jpg

Thinkpad Forum: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v65/d ... PForum.jpg

Photobucket Start Page: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v65/d ... bucket.jpg

How does it look?

Do notice that the images are JPEG, so you'll see artifacts around text, especially in the forum pic, where I had to tone down the quality to prevent Photobucket from automatically shrinking it.

Army Chief · #19 Post by **Army Chief** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 11:06 am

I'm wary of offering too simplistic a response, but my take on the matter is this: if you intend to use the machine as a stand-alone work station (i.e. without external monitors, docks, etc.), and visual refinement is a relevant concern, FlexView offers a decisive advantage.

I migrated from a 15" (SXGA+) FlexView A31 to a 14.1" (SXGA+) T41 a couple of years ago, and while the latter is a fine machine in a very convenient form factor, when the time came to pull the trigger on a T60, I opted to return to the 15" (SXGA+) FlexView.

When viewing the two machines side-by-side, the inherent limitations of the 14.1" panel are drawn into painfully sharp relief ... so much so that the smaller display looks downright unsatisfactory by way of comparison. It isn't merely a question of size, viewing angles or brightness, but as others have reported, those are among the most obvious differences.

Forgetting about the technological differences for a moment, I do think that it is time for IBM/Lenovo to admit that a 150 nit display just isn't competitive in today's premier notebook market. It has served me well, but the 14.1" LCD is just totally outclassed by even many contemporary entry-level machines.

In my view, the FlexView's luminescence, color depth, clarity and expanded workspace (due to size) are significant enough to offset any loss of useful overall portability -- if indeed there is one. I would say that the functional distinction between the two size-wise is actually pretty negligible, as the 15" T60 is still a very streamlined piece of equipment.

We all have different priorities and preferences, but when you consider that your primary means of interaction with a computer is visual, it is hard to argue against the FlexView advantage. I'm not quite as enamored with the UXGA resolution offered on the top-tier 15" T60p, so for me a high-spec SXGA+ variant turned out to be precisely what I was looking for. The NMB keyboard was merely icing on the cake.

Chief

dxben · #20 Post by **dxben** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 11:27 am

Army Chief wrote:In my view, the FlexView's luminescence, color depth, clarity and expanded workspace (due to size) are significant enough to offset any loss of useful overall portability -- if indeed there is one. Chief

Well let's be honest here, there is one. Size, weight and battery life. Everything else you said is reasonable, but let's not pretend that the issue of portability with the 15" screen is not a real one.

I agree though, horses for courses. Both have their use. I am getting another 14" Thinkpad in my T60p. I simply don't care about the nicer screen, I place more premium on the weight and battery life of the laptop as well as the smaller footprint.

Either way they both have their uses. If IBM wants to jack up the brightness on the 14" screen, I certainly wouldn't complain though.

Army Chief · #21 Post by **Army Chief** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 12:56 pm

Not a bad point, really. The size and weight differences that I am discounting here seem awfully insignificant until you see the two models side by side. The same thing really holds true when you're looking at the different displays. On their own merits, both configurations are pretty ideal; it isn't until you look very, very closely that you're faced to prioritize a bit.

Given the pricepoint at which Lenovo was letting the T60p go on the sale that just ended (on the 24th), anyone that was sitting on the fence about the 14.1" should have taken the plunge without a moment's hesitation!

Chief

dcouzin · #22 Post by **dcouzin** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 3:33 pm

"Luminance" not "luminescence".

Dodge DeBoulet · #23 Post by **Dodge DeBoulet** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 5:46 pm

dcouzin wrote:"Luminance" not "luminescence".

Wow, you dug up a year-old thread to play dictionary police?

Is 15" Flexview really worth it?

Is 15" Flexview really worth it?

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