Is this T21 worth it?

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simms · #1 Post by **simms** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 1:22 pm

IBM Thinkpad T21 Pentium 3, 800MHZ.
128MB ram, 10GB hard drive, DVD-Rom
14.1" TFT screen,
Windows XP pro with Office XP installed (Word, Access, Powerpoint, Frontpage, Excel ETC)

He's asking $300 CDN which makes it about $260USD.
Can this thing play DVDs smoothly? What about windows - the 128MB kinda sucks along with the 10GB HDD.

lithium726 · #2 Post by **lithium726** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 1:38 pm

I wouldnt do it. You can get a better deal on T23's on ebay. Here are some things to consider...

1. The T21 uses the 440BX chipset, which limits it to 256MB DIMMs. Although the chipset supports 1GB, you cannot use 512MB sticks so you will be limited to 512MB. PC100 DIMMs have gotten rather expensive in their old age, and 128MB aboslutly sucks.

2. The 10GB is not only not enough to even put windows and a slew of programs on, its going to slow as all hell, with probably a 3600 or 4200RPM spindle speed and 512k cache. An upgrade here will be necessary, and the T22 only supports ATA33 so you will be throughput limited on faster (mostly the 7200RPM) models.

3. an 800MHz P3 might be slower than you are expecting, and the max it can take a 1GHz P3.

4. The T21 has an 8MB video adaptor, a slow video adaptor at that. You are going to have to turn off all the visual candy stuff in XP to make it as smooth as possible

5. The T21's mainboard is specific to the resoltuion screen it has when it ships, so you if you ever want a new SXGA+ screen, you'll have to upgrade hte mainboard too.

6. The T21 uses a MPCI card with a modem and ethernet. It is impossible to put internal wireless inside and keep the ethernet jack, although it is possible to keep the modem... i doubt you care about that though. This could be a deal breaker, as some people (like me) hate crap coming out hte side of a laptop.

7. DVD's will play but I think you will find their quality lacking. the S3 chip inside the T2x really is the weakest link on them - the MR7500 in my T40 looks SO much better than the 16MB S3 in my T23.

All in all, i would save for a better machine. A T30 would be nice, I think at this point , as much as I love the T2x series, I would want something with a Pentium-M or P4-m. The P3 is on an archaic bus with no support for SSE2 and old, slow, expensive memory. everything but the T23 only supports ATA33, The T23 is ATA100. They all have USB1 (T30 does too) and run rather hot.

simms · #3 Post by **simms** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 3:06 pm

lithium726 wrote:I wouldnt do it. You can get a better deal on T23's on ebay. Here are some things to consider...

1. The T21 uses the 440BX chipset, which limits it to 256MB DIMMs. Although the chipset supports 1GB, you cannot use 512MB sticks so you will be limited to 512MB. PC100 DIMMs have gotten rather expensive in their old age, and 128MB aboslutly sucks.

2. The 10GB is not only not enough to even put windows and a slew of programs on, its going to slow as all hell, with probably a 3600 or 4200RPM spindle speed and 512k cache. An upgrade here will be necessary, and the T22 only supports ATA33 so you will be throughput limited on faster (mostly the 7200RPM) models.

3. an 800MHz P3 might be slower than you are expecting, and the max it can take a 1GHz P3.

4. The T21 has an 8MB video adaptor, a slow video adaptor at that. You are going to have to turn off all the visual candy stuff in XP to make it as smooth as possible

5. The T21's mainboard is specific to the resoltuion screen it has when it ships, so you if you ever want a new SXGA+ screen, you'll have to upgrade hte mainboard too.

6. The T21 uses a MPCI card with a modem and ethernet. It is impossible to put internal wireless inside and keep the ethernet jack, although it is possible to keep the modem... i doubt you care about that though. This could be a deal breaker, as some people (like me) hate crap coming out hte side of a laptop.

7. DVD's will play but I think you will find their quality lacking. the S3 chip inside the T2x really is the weakest link on them - the MR7500 in my T40 looks SO much better than the 16MB S3 in my T23.

All in all, i would save for a better machine. A T30 would be nice, I think at this point , as much as I love the T2x series, I would want something with a Pentium-M or P4-m. The P3 is on an archaic bus with no support for SSE2 and old, slow, expensive memory. everything but the T23 only supports ATA33, The T23 is ATA100. They all have USB1 (T30 does too) and run rather hot.

Thanks for your indepth response. I already have a T40, but am looking for something for my GF who just needs basic word processing/net and maybe some DVDs.

A T30 is a notch higher, but I can't find a lot of them on eBay. I will definetely hold off on this deal for now and see if I can pick up something just a BIT more modern.

Website · #4 Post by **tfflivemb2** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 3:11 pm

Given the price, I would go for a T23. $250-$300 USD is what the T23s are going for now on eBay. I have personally purchased two T23s for less than $300 ($270 and $280 SHIPPED)

lithium726 · #5 Post by **lithium726** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 3:11 pm

http://computers.search.ebay.com/Thinkp ... acatZ51148

search for "Thinkpad T30" on ebay pulled up 185 laptops, lol

Note that the T30 is going to be a bit thicker, and i went with a T40 for my GF due to size and battery life.

simms · #6 Post by **simms** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 5:14 pm

lithium726 wrote:http://computers.search.ebay.com/Thinkp ... acatZ51148

search for "Thinkpad T30" on ebay pulled up 185 laptops, lol

Note that the T30 is going to be a bit thicker, and i went with a T40 for my GF due to size and battery life.

Yep, I've heard the thickness on the T20 is comparable to the T40s while the T30 is thicker?

I just got an offer for a T22... for $235 US shipped, which has..
* Intel Pentium 900MHz Processor
* 128 Mb RAM
* 20Gb HDD
* DVD ROM
* 3.5" Floppy Drive
* 14.1" SVGA TFT Active Matrix LCD Display.
* Integrated Sound, Microphone, Speakers
* Integrated 10/100 Ethernet Port
* Integrated 56K Modem
* USB Port
* S-Video Connection
* 9 Pin Serial Port & PS2 Port
* IEEE 1284/EPP/ECP LPT Printer Port
* Trackpoint
* External Monitor Connection
* Ac Adapter
* Tested Battery Included
* Windows XP Professional operating system

Granted, I'm still a student and buying something for her is within my budget, but if she doesn't need a high end system...

simms · #7 Post by **simms** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 5:17 pm

And aside from the performance spec, battery compartment and the fact that there's no internal wireless, are there any big differences between the T22 and T40?

Website · #8 Post by **tfflivemb2** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 5:18 pm

Now this price is a little better and in my opinion, worth it.

lithium726 · #9 Post by **lithium726** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 5:30 pm

simms wrote:And aside from the performance spec, battery compartment and the fact that there's no internal wireless, are there any big differences between the T22 and T40?

Ultrabay slim and USB2... USB being the most compelling reason to get her a T40

My GF thought my T23 was too slow, and all she does is all your GF does. Since hte T30 wouldve been bigger and she wouldnt have liked that, and the fact that her Ipod requires USB2, we spent al ittle extra to get a T40 and she aboslutly loves it.

and the performance spec is pretty big... DDR, pent M, MR7500, ATA100, gigabit, better audio...

That T22 looks like a rather nice machine though, its got the SXGA+ screen, which youll be hard pressed to find on a T4x machine for cheap. You will still need to upgrade the HDD and Ram though... T22 still supports 256MB PC100 dimms like the T21. Look into that before you buy

The T40 is about .3 inches thinner than my T23, and the way it is built makes it look about half as thick. by spec, the T30 is .2 inches thicker than the T2x series

meat · #10 Post by **meat** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 9:35 pm

Lithium speaks the truth. I bought a T21 with 256 megs of RAM for $300 and I ended up ugrading the RAM (which is expensive, even on ebay), bought a new battery (not from ebay), 72 watt AC adapter and a wireless PCMCIA card. I probably would have been better off getting a decked out T23 or T30.

TonyJZX · #11 Post by **TonyJZX** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:55 am

IMO a T21/22 is still a viable machine as long as you can live with its limitations.

They are slow for some tasks - general internet and officework will not phase it but multimedia will. The S3 graphics is poor for that.

Mine has 256Mb/20Gb and a PCMCIA wireless under 2000. It is my main machine controlling a P2.8D server, Athlon XPM and Opteron workstations. I have a backup AMD Turion laptop and am after a T23.

I'm hoping a pIII 1.2 T23 will be a tad faster.

IMO a T21/22 is still a good machine if you are mindful of what you ask it to do and DO NOT SPEND TOO MUCH MONEY ON IT.

I'm thinking the T23 I'm after will have 384Mb at least and a useful sized 80Gb 5,400rpm drive.

Website · #12 Post by **tfflivemb2** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 8:55 am

Keep in mind that there are still a lot of users out there that are VERY happy still using their 600E/770Xs on a daily basis.

I have an R40 with a 2.2GHz processor, 1gb ram, 80gb 5400rpm drive...yet, I am on my t21 EVERY day. The T21 is perfect for me. In fact, I am typing on my T21 right now and wouldn't trade it for the world. I only use the R40 as a desktop replacement.

TonyJZX · #13 Post by **TonyJZX** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 9:04 am

There's something really "just right" about the the T series.

Other laptops feel wrong. I love the kbd, nipple, the way the laptop feels.

That's why I'm gonna buy a T23.

Other laptops just feel wrong.

Buy your first T series and you'll be hooked.

lithium726 · #14 Post by **lithium726** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 7:24 pm

well thats why i was suggesting a newer T series

its definalty based on need. The T2x series were great machines but IMO are a little dated. A T21 might be perfect for someone, but i would be ripping my hair out on one. Hell, sometimes i feel like my T40 is too slow... Just for refrence, my systems are a dual 1.4ghz pentium 3-s chips, an athlon XP at 2.5Ghz (couldnt afford SMP

) and an athlon X2. I really am an SMP fanatic, so, as always, take internet advice with a grain of salt

If a T2x series will be great for her, thats wonderful and for you to judge.

Is this T21 worth it?

Is this T21 worth it?

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