770 / Windows 2000 install / freeze problem

[Turbovend]

I bought a ThinkPad 770 9549-1AU on eBay
Purpose: internet use away from desktop, & also want to set up an internet data feed while at home to run for extended periods, so stability is #1 concern, thus Windows 2000.

Upgraded the RAM from 128MB (1x64 + 1x32 + 32 onboard) to 288 (2 x 128MB PC-100 chips + 32 onboard)
Upgraded the Hard Drive from 5.1 GB to 40 GB, mainly to gain speed
Added CD-ROM Drive (no diskette drive)
Flashed the BIOS to the latest version
Upgraded the CD-ROM firmware.
Initialized system and ran all tests - OK!

Install WIN2K:
Boot from CD, NTFS formatting of HD goes all the way to 100%, then locks up every time leaving HD unusable. WAS able to partition and format with WIN XP install CD but only by using "quick format". (Note: From IBM site: "ThinkPad 770E/ED, 770X, and 770Z support Windows XP. ThinkPad 770 systems do not support Windows XP" True?)

Ran Win2K setup again with drive NTFS pre-formatted. Gets to "Windows is copying files… then locks up at 18% or so every time.

Then I noticed that in the bios with the 2x128MB memory installed it says:
Installed 294912
Usable 228800

Which seems like something’s wrong with the memory.
With 1x128MB plus 1x64MB it says:
Installed 229376
Usable 228800

So, the second 128MB chip is gaining no usable RAM ! What is going on here?

So I just went back to the original memory that came with the machine, 1x64MB and 1x32MB. AND WIN2K INSTALLED OK.

Got everything running, installed a wireless adapter and got on the internet through my DSL network. Seemed to run quite smoothly for a 233Mhz machine. Tried the higher RAM again-- 2x128MB very unstable, but 1x128MB plus 1x32MB (160MB total) seems to be the most RAM that runs stable. At first. But no, a couple hours later the machine freezes. Went back to the original RAM, but now freeze-ups occur with all RAM configurations and it seems to be getting worse. Mouse pointer & keyboard unresponsive. Hard off only.

The only apparent hardware problems are:
1. The trackpoint driver was not recommended because the generic WIN2K PS/2 mouse driver is "newer". I used the trackpoint driver anyway.
2. Hardware conflict between COM2 and the infrared port. Sharing IRQ 4. No workaround but I am not using these devices.
3. Multimedia Device ? With Big yellow question mark. I don’t know what this device is, the driver is not installed, can't find it. I doubt this is locking up the computer, but I would like to install this driver to see. Suggestions?

Then I found this highly disturbing instruction for setting up WIN2K with the 770 on a blank hard disk:
http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... IGR-4G86EQ

In a nutshell, it says to:
Use WIN98 FDISK, DO NOT ENABLE large disk support, partition a 2045mb C: drive and a 2045 D: drive, and format (with the old FAT file system?). Then copy the WIN2K \i386 installation files to D: and install WIN2K from D: using the DOS based WIN2K setup, leaving the current file system intact. (It never mentions why you wouldn’t boot off the WIN2K CD, why you wouldn’t use NTFS or FAT32, and why the 2045mb limitation.)

YUK!!

Can this be right? Here are my questions:
1. The 770 does not support NTFS?
2. The 770 doesn’t support partitions greater than 2045 MB under WIN2K?
3. Doesn’t the 770 even support FAT32 for Large Hard Disk support under Win2K?
4. Is this why my system is locking up (NTFS, large partiiton)?
5. Why not just boot off the WIN2K CD and install it that way, instead of copying the files to D: first?

Oh, man, I just put in this 40GB hard drive. I don’t want to be saddled with a 2GB partition limitation!! 20 2GB partitions? Whaaa? Please tell me it isn’t so!

I am tempted to try the above highly undesirable install method on the old 5.1 GB drive just to see if it works. My other option is to go with Win98 but I want a machine I can leave on for long periods of time and I REALLY prefer WIN2K.

The install method given by IBM seems so wrong! Please someone give me some direction before I partition my new 40GB drive in such a horrible way. I have invested 4 straight days and a lot of anxiety already. Thanks.

[pkiff]

I don't have any experience with a plain vanilla 770, only with 770E/ED and 770Z, but I'll give you a quick couple thoughts anyways.

First off, I notice that you are using PC100 (100MHz) memory modules. The 770 has a 66MHz "Front Side Bus" and was designed for 66MHz memory. Some people have found that 100MHz memory will work in comparable situations with the ThinkPad 600 series, but it can be a definite source of unreliability. Since you are experiencing untraceable system freezes, I would identify your memory modules as potential culprits first. I guess the original memory modules are 66MHz. Are you getting total system freezes even with just the original memory modules installed? Do you have any other 66MHz modules you can try in place of the 100MHz ones?

Second, are you sure you have the latest BIOS installed? Not all BIOSes of the 770 supported Windows 2000. The latest BIOS for the 770 is BIOS version 1.34 (IDET38WW).

Like you, I also doubt that any of your list of "apparent hardware problems" are what is causing your freezing:
1. The TrackPoint driver that ships with Windows 2000 should be plenty stable. If you have doubts, you can upgrade it using the correct driver download from IBM/Lenovo: TrackPoint driver for Windows 2000/XP/XP Tablet 2005.
2. The COM2 (serial port) and infrared port conflict is by design. All the 770 series work like this and in other operating systems it is necessary to switch around IRQs to enable both at the same time. Many people simply disable one port or the other.
3. I wonder if the Multimedia Device is an IBM MPEG DVD Decoder card also called a DVD and Enhanced Video Adapter (DEVA) card? Do you have a three very small, round holes with weird looking receptacles located beneath your battery on the left side of your ThinkPad? If yes, then you have a DEVA card and you may need to install the MPEG driver IV for Windows 98/2000 - ThinkPad 770.

I don't know why the instructions for installing Win2K provided by IBM are so wonky. Regarding the 2GB partition limit, it looks to me like that is done only because the instructions are using DOS to get the i386 folder transferred over to the new drive, not because of any necessity to limit partition sizes. Maybe the original 770 was not able to boot from the first releases of the Windows 2000 CD and so the instructions date back to that time, and no updated or alternative instructions were ever provided? I don't know.

Regarding your other questions, I can't believe that any of those limitations exist in the plain vanilla ThinkPad 770. Otherwise, they would not be able to say that the latest BIOSes include support for Windows 2000. But as I say, I don't have any actual experience with that 770 model.

Phil.

[Turbovend]

Yes I absolutely have the latest BIOS and trackpoint drivers installed. I did install the MPEG driver IV for Windows 98/2000 - ThinkPad 770 and it was the correct one. I have also gone back to the original RAM that came with the machine, which as you noted is PC66 whereas the 128 modules are PC100. I thought I could mix them, but I'm going to leave the PC100 out of the mix for now. Will have to do some searching to find 128 PC66 modules.
I THOUGHT I was having trouble even with just the PC66 RAM installed, but I had been trying so many different things, so I'll stick with the PC66 for now.

There is one device under Sound, Video, and game controllers that is still not working correctly,

Crystal WDM MPU-401 Compatible

This device is disabled because the firmware of the device did not give it the required resources.

However, there are no hardware conflicts and the driver provided by Microsoft appears to be the correct one. . . three other Crystal WDM items are installed correctly, & sound is working, so maybe I don't need to worry about this. Any idea what this device is?


No crashes after an hour or so, I'm going to see if I can find more PC66 RAM. This machine seems to be somewhat limited, but should still be adequate for what I got it for if I can only get it to remain stable.

[Turbovend]

OK, after a couple hours of use it's freezing up on me again even with just the PC66 RAM installed. Darn. Could it possibly be an overheating problem? The fan in the back comes on briefly at post but then never comes on again once the OS starts to load. Is that normal? How can I make it stay on? Is there a utility that would report the CPU temp?

Right now I have a fan aimed directly on the back of the unit and it isn't helping at all so I'm beginning to think it's not heat related.

One think that is consitent is that every time I go into Thinkpad Configuration and click on midi/gameport, the system freezes. So I disabled the gameport through device manager. I have also disabled all the other ports, modem, sound, video and game controllers, everything that is not absolutely essential to running the machine and getting on the network, but it still locks up.

I just clicked on Automatic Updates to see what updates Microsoft has to offer and it froze. By the way, I am already running SP4.

[pkiff]

Mmmm...well, that's annoying. I don't have many ideas left. Maybe it would be better if someone else can chime in with other ideas,, or who has a plain vanilla 770 running Windows 2000.

I noticed that the 770 does not appear to be compatible with ACPI mode, but I assume that the BIOS would have told Windows 2000 about that during the install. Nevertheless, I would double-check that you are running in APM mode and not in ACPI mode. You should be able to check this in Device Manager under "Computer".

Is there a utility that would report the CPU temp?

Not under APM mode. Under ACPI mode, you can run a couple different monitoring programs, including, MobileMeter. But your 770 does not support ACPI under Windows 2000, so I don't think MobileMeter will work. For more information check out the English translation of the MobileMeter readme page.

Could it possibly be an overheating problem?

Yes, possibly. Do you know if the unit was actually functioning properly before you got it off eBay? If, for instance, the CPU is not properly attached to the heatsink or the thermal pad between the heat sink and CPU is not working properly, then you could experience freezes like you are getting, and having an additional fan at the back would not eliminate them.

Also, here is another IBM document that discusses Windows 2000 installation and support for both the 770 series and the 600 series at length. Note in particular that the installation sequence does not list the wonky list of steps from that other document. I suspect that this document is newer and more accurate and should be referred to instead of the one you found:
Windows 2000 Professional Setup and Technical Guide - ThinkPad General

Crystal WDM MPU-401 Compatible
[....]Any idea what this device is?

This is a midi device driver. It can be left disabled with no ill side effects. You only need this if you are going to attach a keyboard or something like it to your ThinkPad through a special cable. The default Windows 98/98SE on a 770 machine has a red X beside this device in the Device Manager, so I assume it is normal for it to be unavailable in 2000 also. To enable it you will need to disable something else.

Finally, I know that the modems in some of the early 770 models caused various problems. I am not familiar with the issues, but you might investigate that as a potential source of your freezing. Again, someone here with more knowledge about this will hopefully chime in.

That's about as much as I can tell ya. Sorry you haven't been able to get it working yet. Good luck!

Phil.

[Turbovend]

I noticed that the 770 does not appear to be compatible with ACPI mode, but I assume that the BIOS would have told Windows 2000 about that during the install. Nevertheless, I would double-check that you are running in APM mode and not in ACPI mode. You should be able to check this in Device Manager under "Computer".

It is listed as "Standard PC". APM is enabled in Control Panel.

I suspect that this document is newer and more accurate and should be referred to instead of the one you found:
Windows 2000 Professional Setup and Technical Guide - ThinkPad General

Yes, I have that document. It's big on the preparation but when it comes to the actual installation, here's all it says:

If your computer has an internal CD-ROM or DVD-ROM drive, simply start the computer with the Windows 2000 Professional CD in the drive then follow the instructions provided by the Setup program.

That's it. On the bright side, the plain 770 is listed as supported and there are no caveats about partition size or using FAT vs FAT32 vs NTFS.

Do you know if the unit was actually functioning properly before you got it off eBay?

As is typical on eBay, the unit was only tested to post. I added a new battery, CMOS battery, power supply, CD-ROM drive and memory. I'm now running with all non-essential hardware disabled, but I've still got a crippled system. I'm going to try norton anti-virus next just be sure I didn't pick up a virus somewhere along the way. peace.

[Turbovend]

OK, it's definately a hardware problem (not driver or software related) with this machine. I've re-installed WIN2K using the 2045mb FAT partition, I've tried installing WIN98 and there are still constant freezes once the machine is warmed up.
Now, I read this in another thread:

If I'm not mistaken, the original ThinkPad 770 is Pentium MMX based and uses EDO RAM. All the 770 models after that (770E, ED, X, Z) use PC66 RAM but PC100 should also work.

Wo-Ho. The memory that came with this machine are FRU: 42H2820 (64MB) and FRU: 42H2819 (32MB) These are SDRAM not EDO RAM. A POSSIBLE SOLUTION ?? But no, I read all over that PC66 chips ARE supported in the original 770.

Here, directly from the 770 series Hardware Maintenance Manual:

8 MB EDO DIMM (770) 42H2767
16 MB EDO DIMM (770) 42H2768
32 MB EDO DIMM (770) 42H2769
64 MB EDO DIMM (770) 42H2817

16 MB SDRAM SO DIMM 42H2818
(770, 770E/ED)
32 MB SDRAM SO DIMM 42H2819
64 MB SDRAM SO DIMM 42H2820
(770, 770E/ED)
64 MB SDRAM SO DIMM 20L0242
128 MB SDRAM SO DIMM 01K1153

Notice for the last 2 the machine type is not listed (thanks, IBM)
I'm confused. This contradicts quote number one above. Apparently the original 770 supports BOTH EDO and PC66 RAM, later models PC66 only.
Can anyone clarify the EDO vs SDRAM support for the original 770? I'd try EDO if there was a chance it would solve my problem, but I don't want to waste any more money.

[pkiff]

For archival purposes, I'm adding a couple links to additional info that I sent to Turbovend via PM.

It looks to me like the 770 is compatible with both EDO and SDRAM. According to folks on the ThinkPad Mailing List (another place for ThinkPad info), the memory on the motherboard is SDRAM, but you can use either EDO or SDRAM in the available memory slots, provided that you don't mix one EDO with one SDRAM:
http://zurich.csail.mit.edu/hypermail/t ... /0305.html
http://zurich.csail.mit.edu/hypermail/t ... /0311.html

Also from elsewhere in the ThinkPads.com Forum, see:
HELP with an old 770 U31

You might consider running a full memory test. I think you can do this from within the BIOS (and you might already have done it), but you can do a more thorough test with something like memtest:
http://www.memtest86.com/

Phil.