No option to create recovery cd's

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Lauranmc · #1 Post by **Lauranmc** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 10:12 am

I want to burn a set of recovery cd's for my T42. When I go to either
Access IBM or Thinkvantage there is no option to burn cd's. There is an
option to create a startup cd. I can see the IBM service partition when I go
to administrative tools, so it is still there. How do I do this? I tried
making an image of the partition in ghost but it only made 3 cd's, not the 7
I've read about.
Thanks.....

#2 Post by **Kyocera** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 10:52 am

Have you already burned a set before. Seems like I remember a thread that states you can only burn one set per machine. I have an extra set if you PM me.

#3 Post by **GomJabbar** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 12:10 pm

Kyocera is correct. See my last post on this link:

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=16665

redchair · #4 Post by **redchair** » Fri May 12, 2006 4:38 pm

I also have the problem where there is no option to create recovery CD's, but the option to create rescue media is there, and it works. Getting properties in windows allows me to find the application that the "create rescue media shortcut" leads to (edit:"C:\IBMTOOLS\utils\spi\crm.exe"). Would someone tell me the exe that the "create recovery CDs" shortcut leads to?

#5 Post by **GomJabbar** » Fri May 12, 2006 5:18 pm

redchair wrote:Getting properties in windows allows me to find the application that the "create rescue media shortcut" leads to ("crm.exe"). Would someone tell me the exe that the "create recovery CDs" shortcut leads to?

C:\IBMTOOLS\utils\spi\reccd.exe

I also replied to the other thread you were monitoring on this issue with additional information.

redchair · #6 Post by **redchair** » Fri May 12, 2006 8:34 pm

Note, on my computer with only C: recovery information, this executable does NOT work (see below). Continuing in an administrator account, the exe fails with an error saying it can't find the files needed to create recovery CD's on my (special?) factory setup.
GomJabbar found the application below that actually writes the CD's. I can verify that it is present, and executes: even if you don't have a shortcut to perform the task in the Access IBM or Thinkvantage start menu folders. [T43p Windows XP Pro SP2]. I get a dialog asking if I want to make recovery CD's, but the exe stops with an error when one goes any further. http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=16665

GomJabbar wrote: C:\IBMTOOLS\utils\spi\reccd.exe ....

w0qj · #7 Post by **w0qj** » Sun May 14, 2006 8:17 pm

Kyocera wrote:Have you already burned a set before. Seems like I remember a thread that states you can only burn one set per machine. I have an extra set if you PM me.

GomJabbar wrote:Kyocera is correct. See my last post on this link:

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=16665

***Can't you just use the Rescue & Recovery CD's that you've created, let it do a complete Factory Restore to wipe your hard drive, then use your T42 to burn another set of Seven R&R CD's again?

#8 Post by **GomJabbar** » Sun May 14, 2006 9:27 pm

w0qj wrote:***Can't you just use the Rescue & Recovery CD's that you've created, let it do a complete Factory Restore to wipe your hard drive, then use your T42 to burn another set of Seven R&R CD's again?

Yes.

smids · #9 Post by **smids** » Mon May 15, 2006 6:40 am

Hi,

Sorry to sidetrack slightly from the OP's question but does anyone know if IBM give the option to create a R+R image? I don't have a CDRW on my thinkpad and it never recognises my USB HDU (Sony NW-HD-5 HD Player - formatted with FAT32). So I have no way of creating any rescue and recovery media. I tried to share my DVDRW across the network but this only gives access to files on a CD/DVD and does not allow you to burn across the network. I do however have Acronis True Image 9 so I can keep an image anyway but this won't work if I need to start afresh - although I could recover and then create an image immediately after recovery but I find it shortsighted of IBM not to allow for the thinkpad owners with only DVDRoms to not be able to create rescue CD's - unless of course there is a way I do not know about.

Thanks in advance,

Smids.

#10 Post by **GomJabbar** » Mon May 15, 2006 8:26 am

I say, shell out ~ $100 for an external USB CD or DVD burner,
or buy an Ultrabay Slim CD burner off e-bay for ~ $60.

Thinkpad Combo II CD-RW/DVD UltraBay Slim Drive - XLNT! Note: I have not used this seller, but his rating is very good.

Other option, buy the Product Recovery Discs from Lenovo ~ $45 - $50 US.

smids · #11 Post by **smids** » Mon May 15, 2006 9:01 am

GomJabbar wrote:I say, shell out ~ $100 for an external USB CD or DVD burner,
or buy an Ultrabay Slim CD burner off e-bay for ~ $60.

Thinkpad Combo II CD-RW/DVD UltraBay Slim Drive - XLNT! Note: I have not used this seller, but his rating is very good.

Other option, buy the Product Recovery Discs from Lenovo ~ $45 - $50 US.

Do you think there is any way of contacting IBM about this? I mean it would only make sense for them to include such a method, especially for older thinkpads running on the newer software. I shall email them all the same.

Personally, I don't need it - I shall just use Acronis True Image after a R+R from the predesktop area so I can reload it anytime but I really did want an 'official' IBM CD and not to have to use Acronis. Oh well, I don't particularly want to shell out any more money - I might buy a USB external caddy for my DVDRW and just plug that in if I really can be bothered but for now Acronis should suffice.

Also, despite the £ being so strong against the Dollar at the moment £1 = $1.86, I have to pay UK VAT (17.5% + the customs duty for electronic items which I believe is 2.5% or so) and import taxes unless I buy from Europe or it is sent as a 'gift' which is unethical and quite possibly not the best way if it does get stopped!

Thanks all the same

.

#12 Post by **GomJabbar** » Mon May 15, 2006 9:08 am

smids wrote:Do you think there is any way of contacting IBM about this?

Sure, give them a call. I've read where some users were able to get a set at no charge. I don't have the number for the UK. Here is the one in the US: IBM parts help at 1-800-765-5944

smids · #13 Post by **smids** » Mon May 15, 2006 9:52 am

GomJabbar wrote:
smids wrote:Do you think there is any way of contacting IBM about this?
Sure, give them a call. I've read where some users were able to get a set at no charge. I don't have the number for the UK. Here is the one in the US: IBM parts help at 1-800-765-5944

Well I gave them a call and moaned a bit that there are no provisions for creating a rescue set of CD's for those of us without the CDRW combo drives and the guy went away and spoke to his line manager and came back saying that I couldn't make the CD's myself, however, they'd send me out a set for free as I was under warranty. He said it would take 10 days to arrive (probably from America) and call them back if it doesn't.

Once again, IBM/Lenovo excel in customer support. You really can't fault them. As soon as I get the CD's I'm doing a fresh windows install as this has really started to slow down after 9 months of use.

#14 Post by **GomJabbar** » Mon May 15, 2006 10:43 am

I am glad to hear you got your set!

redchair · #15 Post by **redchair** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 1:28 pm

Some people may not be able to create recovery CD's at all on their computer, despite having a CD burner and a factory install. I tried to create some CD's as an administrator through C:\IBMTOOLS\utils\spi\reccd.exe (which is where the Create Recovery CD's shortcut leads), but I was greeted by an error that said the program could "not find the files required to create recovery cd's".

Most people have a recovery partition: but IBM may have written the "predesktop area" DIRECTLY TO C:. Search the PDF or the google HTML translation below for "minint" or "preboot" to see that IBM has the option of not having a recovery partition at all, and may write the recovery files to C:

http://www.google.com/search?hs=&q=%22I ... ion+2.0%22
http://www-900.ibm.com/cn/support/downl ... r20mst.pdf
http://www.sysinternals.com/Forum/forum ... p?TID=2482

I disabled the predesktop area in the BIOS (really disabled, not secure and not normal), and loaded up separately a debian installer CD and [censored] Small Linux. Both show a monolithic 80GB NTFS partition on my 80GB hard drive, with no trace of a recovery partition.

Pressing the blue thinkvantage button at startup loads the "IBM Rescue and Recovery" separateOS/system just fine. Which is useless because it is on a virtual partition that can't be loaded using LILO or GRUB as some people on www.thinkwiki.org are able to do with their "real" recovery partitions.

Any backup utility run through windows can't copy these directories because they are hidden from the windows API (see sysinternals link). So I have no way of backing up my system at all, short of loading up [censored] Small linux, buying a BYTECC USB to PATA interface, and "dd"ing the whole [censored] drive to an external segate drive.

http://www.[censored].org/
http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Problem_w ... of_the_box
BYTECC BT-200 USB2.0 to IDE Cable With Power Adapter - Retail http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6812156101

#16 Post by **GomJabbar** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 8:07 pm

redchair wrote:Some people may not be able to create recovery CD's at all on their computer, despite having a CD burner and a factory install. I tried to create some CD's as an administrator through C:\IBMTOOLS\utils\spi\reccd.exe (which is where the Create Recovery CD's shortcut leads), but I was greeted by an error that said the program could "not find the files required to create recovery cd's".

Most people have a recovery partition: but IBM may have written the "predesktop area" DIRECTLY TO C:. Search the PDF or the google HTML translation below for "minint" or "preboot" to see that IBM has the option of not having a recovery partition at all, and may write the recovery files to C:

I disabled the predesktop area in the BIOS (really disabled, not secure and not normal), and loaded up separately a debian installer CD and [censored] Small Linux. Both show a monolithic 80GB NTFS partition on my 80GB hard drive, with no trace of a recovery partition.

If you are talking about your T43, then I disagree with your analysis. The T43 came out after 2004, so would certainly have the Type 12 service partition. IMO, the only way your T43 would not have this, is if it came from a non-retail source (in other words if it came from corporation or company whose IT department set it up, or perhaps IBM set it up special for that corporation or company), or if you or someone else removed it with a partioning program.

If you are talking about ThinkPads made before the T42's, then you are probably correct.

The following is from the "IBM Rescue and Recovery Deployment Guide Version 2.0 Updated: April 11, 2005", which I believe was your first link.

IBM wrote:Installation on IBM computers with the Rescue and Recovery application preinstalled in a type 12 partition IBM computers that are announced in the first quarter 2004 and come with the Rescue and Recovery environment preinstalled feature this configuration.

IBM wrote:Factory Recovery*and Diagnostics*

* exist on IBM Preloaded systems only

IBM wrote:* Advantage of a type 12 partition: When the Rescue and Recovery environment is placed in a virtual partition, several files are placed in the root of the C drive where an end user could possibly delete them. The filter driver does not protect these files because some are common with Windows boot files (for example, NTDETECT.COM). If they are deleted or otherwise become unusable, the end user would be unable to boot to the Rescue and Recovery environment. However, when the Rescue and Recovery environment is placed in a type 12 partition, Windows prevents all users from accessing that partition and the files required to open the Rescue and Recovery environment are highly protected. Note: With the Rescue and Recovery environment secured in the type 12 partition, only a corrupted MBR would prevent access to the Rescue and Recovery. In that case, an external version of the Rescue and Recovery environment must be used. Currently IBM supports CD and USB hard disk drive-based versions of the Rescue and Recovery environment that are created with the Create Rescue Media applet in the Access IBM folder of the Start Menu.

Michael1980 · #17 Post by **Michael1980** » Wed Jun 28, 2006 2:46 pm

Sorry to piggyback on this topic but I was wondering whether recovery disks made now are any different from the recovery disks I made a year ago? i.e do the newer programs go onto the recovery disks or do they not change from the original state?

#18 Post by **Kyocera** » Wed Jun 28, 2006 5:17 pm

Some people may not be able to create recovery CD's at all on their computer, despite having a CD burner and a factory install. I tried to create some CD's as an administrator through C:\IBMTOOLS\utils\spi\reccd.exe (which is where the Create Recovery CD's shortcut leads), but I was greeted by an error that said the program could "not find the files required to create recovery cd's".

Yes this, actually does happen i called lenovo tech support immediately and they told me it does happen on some machines, this did not make feel great but they had CD's on the porch in two days. Got the message "unable to find files to create recovery cd's".

Sorry to piggyback on this topic but I was wondering whether recovery disks made now are any different from the recovery disks I made a year ago

That's a good question, I know when my t42 shipped SP2 was not out so my recovery cd's were just what was on the OS. When I ordered a set SP2 had been out for a few or so months and the CD's had SP2 included. I didn't check all the driver versions because they are updated so fast it's best just to use the software installer to update.

redchair · #19 Post by **redchair** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 11:11 am

GomJabbar wrote:[
If you are talking about your T43, then I disagree with your analysis. The T43 came out after 2004, so would certainly have the Type 12 service partition. IMO, the only way your T43 would not have this, is if it came from a non-retail source (in other words if it came from corporation or company whose IT department set it up, or perhaps IBM set it up special for that corporation or company), or if you or someone else removed it with a partioning program.

Yes, I am refering to my T43p (purchased Jan 2006). However, this T43 is an IBM factory installed laptop AND a special model for the organization I work for. This T43p came out of an IBM box, with IBM tape and "Security Seal" stickers on the box, and my tech support calls go to an IBM Atlanta GA call center. The reason why I referenced the Rescue and Recovery Deplyoment guide is because it describes the possibility for installing the whole rescue and recovery system on the C: drive in addition to the possibility of using a real type 12 partition.

I conciously secured the laptop predesktop setting when I first turned the computer, and have been very careful with normal and administration tasks (no partitioning changes written to disk). So nobody had modified the partition table when I observed it.

I just thought that other people who couldn't make recovery CD's would find it useful to know this may be a source for their problem, even though all electronic help still mentions "recovery CDs". What is another point of possible confusion is the rescue-and-recovery virtual partition is still bootable like a real partition, but only contains self-made backup facilities, and no "pristine" Windows OS image. Finally, the lack of a real type 12 partition seems to make BIOS preboot security useless.

Michael1980 · #20 Post by **Michael1980** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 6:28 am

Kyocera wrote:
Some people may not be able to create recovery CD's at all on their computer, despite having a CD burner and a factory install. I tried to create some CD's as an administrator through C:\IBMTOOLS\utils\spi\reccd.exe (which is where the Create Recovery CD's shortcut leads), but I was greeted by an error that said the program could "not find the files required to create recovery cd's".
Yes this, actually does happen i called lenovo tech support immediately and they told me it does happen on some machines, this did not make feel great but they had CD's on the porch in two days. Got the message "unable to find files to create recovery cd's".

Sorry to piggyback on this topic but I was wondering whether recovery disks made now are any different from the recovery disks I made a year ago
That's a good question, I know when my t42 shipped SP2 was not out so my recovery cd's were just what was on the OS. When I ordered a set SP2 had been out for a few or so months and the CD's had SP2 included. I didn't check all the driver versions because they are updated so fast it's best just to use the software installer to update.

It turns out that the R&R3 makes different CD's from R&R2, and the latter ones do not work anymore if you want to restore a backup. So IBM/Lenovo advises people to burn new recoveries as soon as installing RnR3.

#21 Post by **GomJabbar** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 7:30 pm

redchair wrote:
GomJabbar wrote:If you are talking about your T43, then I disagree with your analysis. The T43 came out after 2004, so would certainly have the Type 12 service partition. IMO, the only way your T43 would not have this, is if ...(...perhaps IBM set it up special for that corporation or company)....
Yes, I am refering to my T43p (purchased Jan 2006). However, this T43 is an IBM factory installed laptop AND a special model for the organization I work for.
-----------------------
I just thought that other people who couldn't make recovery CD's would find it useful to know this may be a source for their problem, even though all electronic help still mentions "recovery CDs". What is another point of possible confusion is the rescue-and-recovery virtual partition is still bootable like a real partition, but only contains self-made backup facilities, and no "pristine" Windows OS image. Finally, the lack of a real type 12 partition seems to make BIOS preboot security useless.

Your scenerio would seem to fit what I was describing. However, Kyocera apparently received a retail T60 that fits what you are describing. Maybe Lenovo used the wrong hard drive image with his T60.

You make some valid points about helping others who couldn't make recovery CD's, and about the lack of the Windows OS image. Frankly, I am surprised that this is the case, but I do believe you.

No option to create recovery cd's

No option to create recovery cd's

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