T60p Identity Theft Advice

[Bemps]

I placed an order for a 2623DDU Thinkpad Saturday 5/13/06 with its amazing deal of $2199.00 over the phone as I wanted to clarify some last details with a human being. Sunday early afternoon I receive a call from my bank, Wachovia, that there were $900+ believed unauthorized purchases on my debit card. They were all completely unauthorized. I am at a loss of what to do. I filed a fraud case with my bank and have placed a phone call to lenovo asking to speak to a manager. On the avidavid for Wachovia I needed to mention who I thought could be responsible. I have not used this check card to make any purchases for well over a year. I am the only one who has access to it. The customer service rep. had me dictate my check card number as well as the 3 digit authentication number on the back, all seemingly normal for placing an order I guess. I can't say 100% sure if he is responsible for this, but it is definitely a big problem I feel. At this point my order remains still in process and has not been cancelled even though with the lack of $900+ funds in my account my bank said they declined the order. I check my order and it has still an estimated ship date for 6/9/06, not shabby all things considered. So now I am awaiting a call from not a manager but a supervisor as all managers were busy when I called from lenovo who said they are "looking into this" for me. I don't know when she will call and what action if any might be taken. The price for the Thinkpad is now $550 more expensive without the sale. Identity theft is an ugly reality but as my first attempt at buying a Thinkpad this leaves me with a terrible taste in my mouth. Things remain up in the air and quite honostly I don't know if I want to do business with lenovo now. The machines and warranty seem superior as members here harp upon consistantly which lead me to wanting to buy a thinkpad. Can anyone offer any advice as to a way to proceed from this point? I would appreciate any advice.

[archer6]

I placed an order for a 2623DDU Thinkpad Saturday 5/13/06 with its amazing deal of $2199.00 over the phone as I wanted to clarify some last details with a human being. Sunday early afternoon I receive a call from my bank, Wachovia, that there were $900+ believed unauthorized purchases on my debit card. They were all completely unauthorized. I am at a loss of what to do.

I have been a victim of fraudulent charges to my credit card as well as identity theft, so perhaps I can help you out here.

There is some information I need:
1) Where to you live? If in the USA what State?
2) When did this occur?
3) When did you first become aware of it?

So far in reading your post here, you are doing all the right things. In addition I might suggest that you go to the local branch (where you do business) of your bank and ask to see the manager. He/she will be very interested in assisting you. They will have some paperwork for you to complete and they will generally be of more help than just calling the toll free number to the bank.

For some peace of mind, I seriously cannot imagine that this is related to your purchase of the ThinkPad. IBM/Lenovo is extremely responsible and they do not charge your card until the product ships.

I own a corporation and have been doing business with them for over 10 years and they are very responsible when it comes to the financial side of the transaction.

Furthermore, given the info you shared here the good news is you are probably not experiencing identity theft, just someone who got your info and made a charge on your card.

Any other questions you have I would be happy to answer.

Archer6

[Bemps]

I am from Virginia. I watch a lot of German TV and read many German books and magazines and that can make my english suck sometimes... oops

Place order: Shortly before 5pm EST Sat 5/13/06

Call from Wachovia for possible fraud: before 12:30pm Sunday 5/14/06

I checked my account just prior to placing the order on Saturday and at that point there was no activity on my account.


I first became aware of it when Wachovia called on Sunday.



The time frame is very narrow and coincides with placing the order at Lenovo. Those are the facts. I am now wondering just how did these details get out. Is this a matter of my phone or their phone system being monitered by a third party. Was their computer system compromised, my sales rep use or pass on my check card info, or yet more options. It seems that if occurences like these crop up within a big business it would be nice to know just what actually is happening. If Lenovo is innocent then how in the world did whoever get my info?


I did go to a Wachovia branch on Monday asap and talked with a manager and faxed my avidavid form of fraud to the loss management manager. Theoretically I will get the money back but it isn't an absolute guarantee. Wachovia apparantly contacts the businesses with whom the purchases were made and explains the situation and gives them 50 days to credit them the money or prove that it was indeed me that made the purchases which is impossible. I know it must be more complicated, but can't someone track IP address use (sure offshore accounts would thwart this) or shipping address(es) (PO Boxes make it sketchy too)?

Yeah I guess I'm not using identity theft correctly in this case. More exactly my check card info has been stolen and used.

Thanks for the advice.

[archer6]

1) Place order: Shortly before 5pm EST Sat 5/13/06
2) Call from Wachovia for possible fraud: before 12:30pm Sunday 5/14/06
3) I checked my account just prior to placing the order on Saturday and at that point there was no activity on my account.
4) I first became aware of it when Wachovia called on Sunday.
5) The time frame is very narrow and coincides with placing the order at Lenovo. Those are the facts. I am now wondering just how did these details get out.
6) Is this a matter of my phone or their phone system being monitered by a third party. Was their computer system compromised, my sales rep use or pass on my check card info, or yet more options.
7) I did go to a Wachovia branch on Monday asap and talked with a manager and faxed my avidavid form of fraud to the loss management manager. Theoretically I will get the money back but it isn't an absolute guarantee. Wachovia apparantly contacts the businesses with whom the purchases were made and explains the situation and gives them 50 days to credit them the money or prove that it was indeed me that made the purchases which is impossible. I know it must be more complicated, but can't someone track IP address use (sure offshore accounts would thwart this) or shipping address(es) (PO Boxes make it sketchy too)?

Yeah I guess I'm not using identity theft correctly in this case. More exactly my check card info has been stolen and used.

My Response to:
1) thru 4): The good news here is that all of this happened within a very narrow window of time, which will make it much easier to deal with as compared to a wider spread of time.

5) This does indeed lead one to believe that it's related to you order. However it's not absolute certain and it's important to keep an open mind that it indeed may be a third party that did this. (I have learned this the hard way)

6) IBM/Lenovo is an international company and while anything is possible I seriously question that this could be caused by them (I do not work for them )
They have a very secure system on all fronts and while anything is possible, based on my experience (both personally and with the large corporation I own) I would view them suspect after ruling out a third party. While of course pursuing both of these possibilities concurrently.

A scam that is ongoing nationwide is the use of pager sized credit card scanners that food servers in restaurants, clerks in stores, etc. can use to swipe your credit card through before running it through the businesses billing scanner. They are given x amount of money for every card they scan, return the readers to the person (organized crime) that provided it to them in exchange for a new reader that's ready to capture more numbers & data. So between the time they capture your info, and the time the thiefs actually use it is a variable. Therefore, their use of your card info may have been in or around the same time of the purchase with Lenovo.

This is how I fell victim to a large amount of charges which occured while I was on a one month business trip. Unfortunately my financial institution did not notify me promptly. However after much time and effort on my part and theirs is did get resolved without any expense to me.

7) Your financial institution Wachovia has the responsiblity to enlist the services of their fraud unit and look at _all possibilites_ not just that of the merchant you placed the order with. I would suggest that you stay in constant contact with them to insure that they keep this in the high priority column if you will. Your diligence daily will be very beneficial as they will know that you are not going to rest until this is resolved.

Hope this helps you, keep me posted.

Archer6

[underclocker]

With credit cards (vs. debit cards) your liability is generally limited and your exposure is lower. With debit cards, you may get your money back, but not for a long time and without a lot of worry. Not to mention bounced checks, etc.

I dispose of all debit cards that banks send me. They send them now instead of ATM cards, but I have to call the bank customer service to request the pure ATM card without the debit feature. They may tell you it doesn't exist, but eventually a manager will get you one.

Debit cards are not good for consumers.

[Bemps]

Well my hat is off to Wachovia for excellent customer service and for getting all of my stolen money back in six days. Lenovo on the other hand has only sent me an automatic e-mail with my order details on Saturday 5/13/06 when I attempted to purchase the machine. I checked and up until today my order was listed as still on target to ship on June 6th. This is odd since my bank had declined the transaction on Saturday 5/13/06. I have received no phone call from the supervisor who is "looking into the issue" when she promised to call back and no email or anything stating my order will be cancelled. I tried to check the status of the order and it says my order number doesn't exist. I'm calling tomorrow to see what if anything their investigation is yielding out of curiousity and see if they will match the sale price for the T60p 2623 of $2199.00. I attempted to purchase it then only to have the unauthorized charges after placing the order with them. If they won't they very well will lose my patronage and any support. If my business isn't valued with them then too bad. I don't know if I'm way off but I see the blame entirely on them, either the customer service rep stealing my info or their system allowing someone to gain access and get my info. All I wanted to do was simply place an order for a laptop, not deal with fraud issues. I followed the normal customer actions of making a purchase and fell victim to theft. Thanks for your responses. How would you explain the acquiring of my card number and usage if not by the lenovo representative. I do not use this card, at all. The information is not anywhere but in my wallet which doesn't leave my pocket. The customer service rep is the only person logically that had access to my card number and authentication code on the back of the card and opportunity to use it, with knowledge that I had at least $2199.00 in my account to pay for the laptop. I baffles me to see another possibility but I don't want to assume the worst. What other scenarious might exist?

[archer6]

How would you explain the acquiring of my card number and usage if not by the lenovo representative. I do not use this card, at all. The information is not anywhere but in my wallet which doesn't leave my pocket. The customer service rep is the only person logically that had access to my card number and authentication code on the back of the card and opportunity to use it, with knowledge that I had at least $2199.00 in my account to pay for the laptop. I baffles me to see another possibility but I don't want to assume the worst. What other scenarious might exist?

Now that I hear that you have not used the card prior to contact with Lenovo, it certainly seems that they are responsible. I do not see any other possibilites. It's sad to hear about the level of complacency from Lenovo. I am very happy to hear that you received your money back. I hope that you are able to get the laptop you want at a price that suits you.

Have you looked at either Euclid Computers or CostCentral online shops?

Good Luck
Archer6

[Bemps]

haha, actually I was just looking at costcentral. I'm thinking of buying from there as a possibility. I might wait another few weeks and see if the T60p 2623DDU drops in price at costcentral and if not get the 14" 2623D6U at 1.83ghz, DVD-Writer, 512mb ram (will sell this and upgrade to 2gigs) 80 gig HD, put in an enclosure and throw in 100gb 7k Hitachi Travelstar and call it a deal for $400 less than the T60p and have an 80gig external HD. Maybe this is some sign that I'm meant to go with the less expensive system who knows. I really wanted to get the flexview screen, but for much less money this set up seems pretty good especially for the money. I appreciate the advice and I'll let you know how it all ends up playing out.

[archer6]

haha, actually I was just looking at costcentral. I'm thinking of buying from there as a possibility. I might wait another few weeks and see if the T60p 2623DDU drops in price at costcentral and if not get the 14" 2623D6U at 1.83ghz, DVD-Writer, 512mb ram (will sell this and upgrade to 2gigs) 80 gig HD, put in an enclosure and throw in 100gb 7k Hitachi Travelstar and call it a deal for $400 less than the T60p and have an 80gig external HD. Maybe this is some sign that I'm meant to go with the less expensive system who knows. I really wanted to get the flexview screen, but for much less money this set up seems pretty good especially for the money. I appreciate the advice and I'll let you know how it all ends up playing out.

Also check out Euclid Computers as they do not charge sales tax. I have used them and they are really fast at shipping the computer I ordered on a Monday afternoon and the computer arrived Wednesday. They also have great customer service.

Cheers
Archer6