Would you buy it?

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findrivr · #1 Post by **findrivr** » Fri May 26, 2006 2:37 pm

As stated on an earleir post, I'm considering upgrading to a T4* series machine; I've found one on 'Flea-Bay' that is advertised as 'Off-Lease' [are there any other types?], but this particular seller [he is a used computer e-tailer and walk-in retailer in NW. US.] has two which are both BIOS p/w locked and says he doesn't know the p/w. Other than that, based on description it appears to be a fair deal for the $$.
Assuming that there is absolutely no way to access the BIOS settings level, what are the other major minuses about a locked [inaccesible] BIOS?
Also, has anyone ever been able to send in a locked BIOS system to IBM for a BIOS p/w reset?
Can it even be done by other than IBM [Lenovo]?

Thanks for advice and comments.

DIGITALgimpus · #2 Post by **DIGITALgimpus** » Fri May 26, 2006 3:34 pm

I'm 99.997% certain that's stolen hardware. It's suspicious enough that if you bought it, and it was found to be stolen, you'd be charged with receiving stolen property. A locked BIOS with no PW is pretty odd... no reputable dealer would *ever* sell like that.

I'd avoid that like the plague.

cmarti · #3 Post by **cmarti** » Fri May 26, 2006 3:51 pm

Do you have a link for the auction?

It would be good to check is feedback.

findrivr · #4 Post by **findrivr** » Fri May 26, 2006 4:04 pm

That's interesting and informational; I would think that if someone was making even just a partial living by being a Flea-Bay etailer, they would not attempt to risk the sale of stolen merchandise. Given you're observation, by specifying sys info, like a big disclaimer that the BIOS is not p/w accessible, that's almost making a public statement that the system is illegit.

There is always this scenario though: Could it be that the systems were siezed or re-possesed from a business that went under and the previous owners claim that they have forgotten the passwords due to infrequent or never having needed to access the BIOS.

Also, the seller was able to provide the model and serial numbers; they checked out at IBM support. The serial number says it's under warranty until 12/21/06. Wouldn't those type of IBM/Lenovo dbs also warn if it is a stolen unit?
Along that line, isn't there a national network website that would allow a person to log-in and input manuf., model, serial no.s to check for stolen units?

Just trying to delve into why they would be either so dumb or so open and notorius.

findrivr · #5 Post by **findrivr** » Fri May 26, 2006 4:08 pm

Here it is:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... R4_PCN_BIX

cmarti · #6 Post by **cmarti** » Sat May 27, 2006 7:17 am

The answer for your question.

Yes!!

i would buy it nice price and the seller feedaback is good.

That machine would be great to take it as a project.

JHEM · #7 Post by **JHEM** » Sat May 27, 2006 7:36 am

cmarti wrote:The answer for your question.

Yes!!

Sorry, I strongly disagree.

cmarti wrote:i would buy it nice price and the seller feedaback is good.

That machine would be great to take it as a project.

Not at that price!

Regards,

James

JHEM · #8 Post by **JHEM** » Sat May 27, 2006 7:41 am

findrivr wrote:Assuming that there is absolutely no way to access the BIOS settings level, what are the other major minuses about a locked [inaccesible] BIOS?

Beyond the inability to upgrade either the memory or HD? Eventually you'll wind up with a doorstop when the CMOS battery goes dead or someone atempts to change any of the machine's settings or accessories.

findrivr wrote:Also, has anyone ever been able to send in a locked BIOS system to IBM for a BIOS p/w reset?

Certainly, they charge you for changing the MB. Lost/forgotten PWs are NOT covered by the warranty.

findrivr wrote:Can it even be done by other than IBM [Lenovo]?

See the FAQ!

Regards,

James

cmarti · #9 Post by **cmarti** » Sat May 27, 2006 7:55 am

JHEM wrote:
cmarti wrote:The answer for your question.

Yes!!
Sorry, I strongly disagree.
cmarti wrote:i would buy it nice price and the seller feedaback is good.

That machine would be great to take it as a project.
Not at that price!

Regards,

James

Remember.. that my opinion i would buy and tear it apart doing all kinds of upgrades maybe a T43p motherboard take it as a personal project.

JHEM · #10 Post by **JHEM** » Sat May 27, 2006 8:05 am

cmarti wrote:Remember.. that my opinion i would buy and tear it apart doing all kinds of upgrades maybe a T43p motherboard take it as a personal project.

But I'll repeat, NOT at that price.

Anyone who would pay over $500 for that machine when there are so many perfectly usable ones for almost the same amount has more dollars than sense. (Pun intended!)

Regards,

James

davidspalding · #11 Post by **davidspalding** » Sat May 27, 2006 1:07 pm

cmarti wrote:Remember.. that my opinion i would buy and tear it apart doing all kinds of upgrades maybe a T43p motherboard take it as a personal project.

Then the auction price is even more ludicrous. Thomas Tusser and P.T. Barnum both had apropos quotes, but "throwing good money after bad" comes to mind immediately.

So my answer, findrivr, is No, I would not buy it. Not until the vendor pays to have the password cleared, or mainboard replaced.

findrivr · #12 Post by **findrivr** » Sat May 27, 2006 1:12 pm

Correct me if I'm wrong, but through the BIOS settings, the user sets to p/w protect access to the whole system- ie: it won't boot if p/w protected. So, if you can boot the system, obviously, it's never been set to p/w protect access via the BIOS.
Now, once you're booted and up, I beleive you can access the BIOS, F8, before complete Win boot?
So, it sounds as if in this case, the system is operable, but someone has set the p/w protect for entering BIOS?
Just want to be sure we're all talking about the same thing.

I think there may be quite few of these systems around on ebay; I always ask 3 q's:
Whats the model & serial #?
Have you accessed the BIOS?
Are there any missing or broken access doors, keys or cracks anywhere?

davidspalding · #13 Post by **davidspalding** » Sat May 27, 2006 1:26 pm

There are several layers of password protection, depending on model: Power-on password (that would be a dead door stop if the pw wasn't known), BIOS entry password*, BIOS SUPERVISOR password (for making changes). Here's a quote from the IBM CSS help information about hardware passwords.

* Some non-IBM computers' BIOS can be set to require a password to even [edit] enter BIOS at all. Bad news if the BIOS won't auto-configure new RAM, new hard drives, etc. YMMV.

* Note: Some security settings require administrator or supervisor access and not all aspects of security are addressed, such as using and maintaining antivirus and firewall programs.

Hardware passwords: The following hardware passwords are set in BIOS and can be enabled or disabled:

User password (power-on password): This password locks the keyboard and mouse when the computer is being powered on and prevents any software, including the operating system, from starting until you type the correct password.

Administrator password: Sometimes called the supervisor password, this password helps prevent unauthorized persons from making changes to the configuration information that is stored in the BIOS flash memory.

Hard-disk-drive password: This password helps prevent unauthorized persons from accessing your hard drive. If you have more than one hard drive, a password can be set for each hard drive.

I think you need to take James' and others' comments to heart. A TP with any kind of BIOS password applied and unknown, is going to cost you in the long run. Avoid any such laptop; let Cmarti buy 'em.

JHEM · #14 Post by **JHEM** » Sat May 27, 2006 3:23 pm

findrivr wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but through the BIOS settings, the user sets to p/w protect access to the whole system- ie: it won't boot if p/w protected. So, if you can boot the system, obviously, it's never been set to p/w protect access via the BIOS.

OK, you're wrong and you're also confused.

There are DIFFERENT passwords involved in your example. One is the Power On Password, or POP, which is invoked on BOOT and must be entered for the machine to start.

The other is a Supervisor (SP) or BIOS password that must be entered in order to access the BIOS.

You can own a machine for years and never know that there is a SP set as it's only invoked when entering the BIOS, when attempting to upgrade any of the hardware, or when the CMOS battery goes dead and you need to reset the Date and Time.

The POP is easily removed by simply disconnecting the CMOS battery.

Removing the SP requires either a MB change or the services of someone who can sniff an EEPROM for you. See the FAQ.

Regards,

James

DIGITALgimpus · #15 Post by **DIGITALgimpus** » Sat May 27, 2006 5:55 pm

I still think it's stolen hardware. I don't think any reputable seller would sell something and not even know the password (and if they did have it, they would replace the Motherboard before sale).

Not to mention that price is alarming.

Just because their eBay rating isn't in the trash, doesn't mean much... that rating is limited to quality of service, not the legitimacy or legality of the products obtained.

eBay has a pretty good team detecting this stuff, but it does happen.

If you do go for it, I'd make extra certain to make sure the serial number is intact. And I'd call IBM/Lenovo to make sure it's a valid SN and matches that model.

Jiro · #16 Post by **Jiro** » Sat May 27, 2006 6:09 pm

wow intense... for that much i would buy it... even if it was stolen!?!?!?! oh man, the devil is tempting me. I know its wrong to buy stolen gear!!! I wont buy it. But still i feel guilty for thinking it.

cmarti · #17 Post by **cmarti** » Sat May 27, 2006 7:02 pm

Do not do it you ask for opinions and you get three that says no and just one that say yes.

That must mean something.

I am serious about it don't.

Website · #18 Post by **tfflivemb2** » Sat May 27, 2006 8:03 pm

Jiro wrote:wow intense... for that much i would buy it... even if it was stolen!?!?!?! oh man, the devil is tempting me. I know its wrong to buy stolen gear!!! I wont buy it. But still i feel guilty for thinking it.

There are several on eBay right now for less than $599 Buy-It-Now price.

As for the one that is listed above (which just ended earlier), there are several listed in the same condition from the seller.

davidspalding · #19 Post by **davidspalding** » Sat May 27, 2006 11:27 pm

No kidding, the guy's two T40s with BIOS password locked and pw unknown. What're the chances? Somebody just dumped a few corporate lappies and didn't bother unlocking? Or he bought them at a liquidation and didn't check until preparing for sale? Whew ... I dunno.

They're like lemon sports cars ... the seller is pleading, "Please, SOMEONE, take this albatross off my back? It's killing me.... Someone make this pain go away...."

Website · #20 Post by **tfflivemb2** » Sun May 28, 2006 10:06 am

Yeah, it sounds like they were picked up from a business, probably through some type of liquidation. Otherwise, I am sure that the seller would get the password, in an effort to create a higher resale value.

DIGITALgimpus · #21 Post by **DIGITALgimpus** » Sun May 28, 2006 6:29 pm

tfflivemb2 wrote:Yeah, it sounds like they were picked up from a business, probably through some type of liquidation. Otherwise, I am sure that the seller would get the password, in an effort to create a higher resale value.

In those cases, IT guys are normally held to help liquidate the hardware and software licenses from inventory.

It's pretty routine (most IT depts do it all the time when they sell/upgrade/donate old hardware)... they would know to disable that.

They need to keep a few of the IT guys for that job, since it's typically only them who know how everything is setup, and where everything is.

And any reputable seller knows to check for a bios password. I know a few people who have worked at repair centers... before the customer leaves, they have to plug it in and make sure no password exists.

Website · #22 Post by **tfflivemb2** » Sun May 28, 2006 7:59 pm

I bought a bunch of 600 and 600Es back when Arthur Anderson (or someone like that) went under, in Chicago. Half of them had either Supervisor or POP passwords, no one with IT background was there to help with them. The POP ones were no problem, but the ones with the SP were either sold off on eBay for what I paid for them, or used for parts.

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