What's the best car around $30,000~$35,000?

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nowstime · #1 Post by **nowstime** » Sun May 28, 2006 12:06 am

I'm looking to replace my Pathfinder...planning to invest around $30,000.

I'm in my 30's and considering the follwing cars - If any member from this forum drives any of the below cars, please let me know what you think about it or what you recommend.

No priority...
1. Acura TSX with NAVI (approx. $30,000)
2. Acura TL with NAVI (approx. $34,000) - a bit more but I hear so many good things about this car.
3. BMW 325i sedan (approx. $34,000) - the ultimate driving machine and I like the free maintainance program. 330i is too much.
4. Audi A4 (approx. $33,000).
5. Honda Civic sedan (approx. $21,000) - cost saver...

Thanks in advance...

turbolium · #2 Post by **turbolium** » Sun May 28, 2006 3:24 am

I asume the audi is a new 2.0t
if this is the case then I would go with it

1st its more "pimping" or better looking if you like it this way (then other cars)
2nd good warranty
3rd AWD is the way to go unless you are into "racing" and like rw drive (but it does not look like you care)

or for that money you can get a subary STI and show kids on your block whos their daddy )))) (solid build cars, can go offroad, AWD, so you wont miss your pathfinder that much, but if you push it, it will do 4miles per gallon easy ((()

Red_October_7000 · #3 Post by **Red_October_7000** » Sun May 28, 2006 3:39 am

First choice IMHO goes to the Audi -AWD for the win. They've been doing it longest, they've been doing it best. Audis are well engineered cars and everything is well thought out and useful. Plus an AWD car can never be put on a Dynamometer. This means no emissions testing with Dynos. This can be handy. They are also very much "Driver's cars" for people who like to drive and enjoy it. If you can drive a stick, get one. If you can't , learn.
Second is the Beamer. Well, it's a Beamer. Great cars. Can you live with iDrive?? Be ABSOLUTELY sure to get your hands on one and make sure you can live with it; it is very much a love it or hate it device and if you don't love it you will pray to whatever gods you hold dear to smite the car with a meteorite. Otherwise, you really can't go wrong with a BMW. Like the Audi, if not even more so, it is a car for someone who enjoys driving and will be wasted on a person who views a car as a box to take him from point a to point b and not as a source of enjoyment.
Third is the Honda simply out of the ability of a Honda to absorb massive amounts of abuse. They're not outstanding in any other respect and will rust into a nice little pile after a certain time but before that you can get lots of use out of them. Simply put if you can't be bothered to change the oil, filters, gear fluid, or ever put water in the thing, this is the car for you. My buddy got one from his mother who barely knew which end of the key you started the motor with; the oil had turned to dust and the brakes were through to bare metal, he put ~40,000 miles on the car before a Ford F-350 put an end to it, AND IT STILL DROVE with one axle snapped clean.
The Acuras are dressed up Hondas with the sort of whizz-bang features you get on the German cars... except you get all the reliability issues of that much crap without the German precision engineering behind it. They are largely the inferior to their American and European competitors. That said they are not BAD at all, just not the best you can do.
Keep in mind a manual transmission will save you about $1,200-2,000 depending on the car, not to mention savings at the pump (about 1-2 MPG better) and on service (less parts=less that can break).

christopher_wolf · #4 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Sun May 28, 2006 4:08 am

I would go with the Audi in this case, I have driven one and it felt pretty darn good; at least as much as a 325i Beamer. Don't worry much about the iDrive as, in the 3 Series, it comes as an optional package.

Acura and Honda up for the dibs next; frankly, I want to see this "German engineered cars last so much longer than the Japanese cars" thing actually come up in practice. I know of several friends and their families who have gone through at least 2 Mercedes vehicles in a shorter time span whilst having a Lexus LS400 on the side for over ten years and not having one problem with it. All a matter of what you do with your car and what you expect out of it.
True, if you pay alot more for a high-end Benz or BMW, you are going to get something that will last a long time; yet, if it is in a comparable class with, say, a Lexus or an Acura...there is little difference in terms of how long they last without problems.

asiafish · #5 Post by **asiafish** » Sun May 28, 2006 11:25 am

Of that group I'd go for the BMW, its in a whole other class.

wantathinkpad · #6 Post by **wantathinkpad** » Sun May 28, 2006 9:21 pm

Actually, if you read the reviews the Acura TSX is the best driver's car. The handling is great.
Audi's interiors are downright beautiful. Also reviews will agree that Audi's do it best.

I love the ACURA TL though just because it does everything right and looks quite masculine in black.

The BMW. Such a great car. But I say with certain cars you need to go all the way. SO i would say if you can get a 330 why bother sort of. Haven't done research on the new ones.

However, I must admit I am extremly bias to acura's because I LOVE honda's because they do everything well. I feel much like thinkpads. Quality is great. There might be other laptops that do one thing better but overall there is nothing like a thinkpad/ACURA (honda).

#7 Post by **archer6** » Mon May 29, 2006 12:58 am

nowstime wrote:I'm looking to replace my Pathfinder...planning to invest around $30,000.

I'm in my 30's and considering the follwing cars

I have an extensive background with cars and may be able to assist here. There are some questions for you that will assist me in providing some feedback for you.

What are your priorities and in what order? For example:

1) How will the vehicle be used?
2) Is performance near the top of the list, if so, what kind of performance? Outright acceleration, braking, handling, or all of the above?
3) How important is ride quality / tire life / suspension life?
4) How important is the cost of maintenance? The free maintenance program offered by BMW does have some loopholes, so I would encourage you to get a written copy and scrutinize it. (I know, just bought a 650i coupe)
5) How important is resale value, how long to you plan to keep it?
6) Once you have decided to move on to another car would you be trading it in or selling it outright?

Archer6

nowstime · #8 Post by **nowstime** » Mon May 29, 2006 8:58 am

First, I'm looking for a car with a smooth ride with some performance. My Pathfinder is fast once it hit high gear but it's pretty bad at take off, so great acceleration is a must.

Second, maintenance cost is a factor, other than the regular oil change, I don't want to put extra money into the car.

Thrid, planning to keep the car until it goes to the junk yard but I think all the cars above have a good resale value.

And finally, the car will be used for daily trips to my work and home.

BTW, what are the loopholes in BMW's free maintenance program?

Thanks in advance...

asiafish · #9 Post by **asiafish** » Mon May 29, 2006 2:35 pm

While its not on the list and not including free maintenance anymore, I've had a terrific experience thus far with my 2001 Mercedes C240. The car isn't particularly fast, but it feels extremely smooth and solid going down the road. After 85,000 miles, it still feels as tight and smooth as the day I bought, with only a single squeek from the suspension when the car is cold to show its age.

It has been easy to maintain, requiring service (about $250-$500) every 10,000 miles, brakes at 50,000 and tires every 30,000 or so.

turbolium · #10 Post by **turbolium** » Mon May 29, 2006 8:38 pm

got a friend with a4 '02 and service was great car still runs very good with around 100k on it right now.

bimmer is an option but new body just looks so generic and even though i own a bimmer and as much as i like them )))) i still think audi is a better choice in that class

Red_October_7000 · #11 Post by **Red_October_7000** » Mon May 29, 2006 10:03 pm

Given what you've said I'd move the Honda up to second place. My buddy's Civic was pretty quick, but he road-tested a slug (right after his was creamed) of a civic, so test-drive the one YOU want to buy. Hondas are relatively cheap to maintain and easy to get worked on. Not like an American car is, but certainly easier than a European car. The Acura will cost you probably %75 more over the Honda for the same maintenance because someone stuck a funny pen-nib logo on the nose of the Honda. The Audi is still the winner, though. Cheaper than the BWM and one of the Acuras, it is VERY quick and with the AWD you won't miss your Pathfinder too much unless you go off-roading bigtime. Everything but the Civic on the list is comfortable, probably the BWM edging out the Audi but that will depend heavily on how you option it. Keep in mind that Acuras are Hondas and Hondas are not comfortable. Leather seats do not a luxury car make, but they are still much less severe inside than the Honda, which will make you think of concrete and monks in terms of being spartan.

christopher_wolf · #12 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Mon May 29, 2006 11:24 pm

Red_October_7000 wrote:Given what you've said I'd move the Honda up to second place. My buddy's Civic was pretty quick, but he road-tested a slug (right after his was creamed) of a civic, so test-drive the one YOU want to buy. Hondas are relatively cheap to maintain and easy to get worked on. Not like an American car is, but certainly easier than a European car. The Acura will cost you probably %75 more over the Honda for the same maintenance because someone stuck a funny pen-nib logo on the nose of the Honda. The Audi is still the winner, though. Cheaper than the BWM and one of the Acuras, it is VERY quick and with the AWD you won't miss your Pathfinder too much unless you go off-roading bigtime. Everything but the Civic on the list is comfortable, probably the BWM edging out the Audi but that will depend heavily on how you option it. Keep in mind that Acuras are Hondas and Hondas are not comfortable. Leather seats do not a luxury car make, but they are still much less severe inside than the Honda, which will make you think of concrete and monks in terms of being spartan.

I agree, the Honda is a very good bet if one doesn't mind the interior, which isn't bad at all; it is just that it is, well, more spartan and the ride is slightly "sturdier" in the Civic and you can feel the road more. Good if you want to have a responsive ride through traffic.

#13 Post by **archer6** » Tue May 30, 2006 12:48 pm

nowstime wrote:First, I'm looking for a car with a smooth ride with some performance. My Pathfinder is fast once it hit high gear but it's pretty bad at take off, so great acceleration is a must.

All of the cars you've listed will do well in this department, some better than others of course, the new Civic will impress you if you have not driven one of these.

nowstime wrote:Second, maintenance cost is a factor, other than the regular oil change, I don't want to put extra money into the car.

You are coming out of a Japanese car, therefore spoiled by the overall lack of maintenance expense compared to the BMW/Audi brands. I would not consider Acura (even though they are honda) as they are struggling profit wise in the US since the major blunder they made renaming the entire model line, thus confusing the consumers. Just when they had developed a terrific flagship model in the Legend, they rested on their laurels and did nothing to keep up with the competition for a few years. Then put the nail in the coffin killing off the Legend name. So, while they are in the process of recovering they are denying warranty claims and other forms of customer goodwill, due to their internal cash shortage. This has had a negative impact on resale as well.
So, unless you have money to burn or cost is no object, the long term cost of owning, maintaining, replacing tires, etc for the
BMW or Audi is going to disappoint you in a major way.

nowstime wrote:Thrid, planning to keep the car until it goes to the junk yard but I think all the cars above have a good resale value.

The reason I asked this question is for resale (blue book) value considerations. Since you plan on keeping it for an extended period, which I think is VERY smart, resale is less of an issue with one major exception. That is in the unfortunate event that you are involved in a crash that totals the car, you will lose the most money if you have chosen one of the cars with the least resale value. In this list that car is the Audi. Which brings up my next point. This is a great opportunity for you to read the "fine print" and consult with your insurance agent about the way they handle claims for vehicles that are totalled. The general term is "replacement value" and the various insurance companies have very different policies on how they handle this. You may find you want to change companies to get the right level of coverage for this possibility. My sister was hit by a drunk driver 8 months ago, she was in a new Mercedes, her company paid only 65% of the replacement cost to get a new one! What an eye opener. Her new company pays 95%.

nowstime wrote:And finally, the car will be used for daily trips to my work and home.

Here is how I rate the list. In Order for you.
1) Honda Civic Sedan - Great design and build quality. Honda is known for their high quality long lasting engines. Great performance from a very efficient motor. Superior performance in the safety arena due to the new structural platform. Improved seating and interior comfort. I'm 6'2" and comfortable in the car. Incredible fuel economy. Hardly any maintenance costs over the life of the car! An amazing car with little or no downsides.
2) BMW - Arguably the finest overall automobile in the world. I have had many new BMW's and Mercedes and both of these are very fine automobiles. For me the BMW has always been my favorite, but it does come at a price, and they are no where as reliable as Honda. The new BMW styling is very poor in my opinion, yet I still caved in and bought the new 650 coupe because of the performance. I spent a number of years racing cars in a motorsports family, so I'm a sucker for a well made fast car.
3) Audi - Another of my favorites. In my opinion they are better than BMW presently. A very fine, well engineered car. However once again I would strike if from the list for two reasons, 1-resale, 2-maintenance issues and small reliability annoyances.

nowstime wrote:BTW, what are the loopholes in BMW's free maintenance program?

I had a brake problem and they blamed it on a warped rotor, which is not covered, only the brake pads. By the time the work was done the bill ended up $1280 on a 9 month old 5 series! I could provide many other examples. I belong to the BMW club and there is a lot of dissent because of the misleading way the "Free Maint" program is represented to the customer by the sales force.

Finally to summarize:
I have a wealth of experience on this topic, being such a long time "car guy", racer, builder, restorer, enhusiast & former auto dealer. So it's a pleasure to be able to share this with you. If you are an enthusiast and want an image / performance car & willing to pay for it now and over time, then the obvious choice is BMW or Audi.
However on the other hand if you want a very nice car that is fun to drive, and a very smart financial investment, the Civic is for you.

nowstime wrote:Thanks in advance...

You are very welcome
Archer6

Red_October_7000 · #14 Post by **Red_October_7000** » Tue May 30, 2006 1:18 pm

I think at this point it's down to test-driving a Civic, a BWM and an Audi to see how they stack up in terms of comfort, convenience, and driving. Little stuff like how you move the seat, can you get comfortable in it, etc, might eliminate one or the other. You may be able to get some options on the Civic to make it comfortable enough for you. You may not. The new Civics I believe have a "Glass dash" that you may either love or hate (I for one LOVE glass dashes; my Corvette has one) so do look into that. Each has its merits, and none of the Disadvantages of these three cars I would say would eliminate one or another.

#15 Post by **underclocker** » Tue May 30, 2006 5:10 pm

Be impractical, try an early 90's Acura NSX for the same money. That or a Ferrari 308 is the best car for around 30-35K.

1outlaw · #16 Post by **1outlaw** » Tue May 30, 2006 8:05 pm

This here is right up my ally......OK depending on your wants and needs these are my "Professional opionons"
Long term drive till it dies with low repair costs "Honda"
Long term drive till it dies with Moderate repair costs "Acura"
Short term use trade when warranty runs out repair cost very expensice. "Audi"
Short term use trade when warranty runs out repair cost very expensive "BMW"

I own a Automotive repair shop these are my opionons and my experience.....Furthermore take into consideration whos going to work on the vehicle when warranty runs out..

#17 Post by **archer6** » Tue May 30, 2006 11:32 pm

1outlaw wrote:This here is right up my ally......OK depending on your wants and needs these are my "Professional opionons"
Long term drive till it dies with low repair costs "Honda"
Long term drive till it dies with Moderate repair costs "Acura"
Short term use trade when warranty runs out repair cost very expensice. "Audi"
Short term use trade when warranty runs out repair cost very expensive "BMW"

Terrific ... Well Said... gave me a laugh, as you are spot on...

1outlaw wrote:....Furthermore take into consideration whos going to work on the vehicle when warranty runs out..

Even better... yes, just who is going to work on it?

beeblebrox · #18 Post by **beeblebrox** » Sat Jun 03, 2006 9:45 am

I would says, get this one from eBay Motors:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... 09646&rd=1

Currently at $35.000
Although, with a fully working flux generator, I guess the prices will go up.

Coolest car, methinks...

AIX · #19 Post by **AIX** » Sat Jun 03, 2006 10:13 am

Honda Accord Sedan - EX V-6 6MT. Why not? $27,300.00 - cost saver too

christopher_wolf · #20 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Sat Jun 03, 2006 10:40 am

beeblebrox wrote:I would says, get this one from eBay Motors:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... 09646&rd=1

Currently at $35.000
Although, with a fully working flux generator, I guess the prices will go up.

Coolest car, methinks...

They still make re-done models of the DeLoreans down in Texas somewhere; you can buy parts from them, have them assemble you a DeLorean, etc.

PS; flux capacitor

Website · #21 Post by **tfflivemb2** » Sat Jun 03, 2006 10:43 am

beeblebrox wrote:I would says, get this one from eBay Motors:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... 09646&rd=1

Currently at $35.000
Although, with a fully working flux generator, I guess the prices will go up.

Coolest car, methinks...

OOOHHH, If I only had the money!!! I'd love to have that car. I loved the movie.

christopher_wolf · #22 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Sat Jun 03, 2006 11:02 am

If it wouldn't be too much trouble to me or cost, I would also like to have a DeLorean as well.

The base models weren't that fast (far from the concept of competing with the Corvette at the time) and the front suspension has to be lowered and stiffened slightly for it to start handling better. Yet they had an awful lot of style, and still do.

And here we have them...

See; http://www.delorean.com/

I have picked up some pretty interesting pictures of people that have modded their DeLorean; GPS, digital readouts, etc...Done correctly and tastefully, they look *really* nice (especially with the Gull-wing doors!). Here is a pic, tiny though, of what some mods can look like

http://www.delorean.com/images_t/v2n3_t.jpg

BruisedQuasar · #23 Post by **BruisedQuasar** » Sat Jun 03, 2006 3:51 pm

You may want to look at the article on cars in a recent Consumer Reports, either June or May issue. They compare sportly cars and have a side bar on the Mini-Cooper model that is a favorite police cruiser in England.

The best buy in a car, in my opinion, are all three American cars: Fords. The Crown Victoria & its Mercury brother the Grand Marquis and their cousin the Lincoln Town Car. Great ride. Excellent V-8 that gets 25 to 28 MPG highway, depending on who you are talking to.
The rear wheel drive avoids the dangerous acceleration issue presented by front wheel drive cars.

A person can pick up a 1998-'99 like new condition, single owner low mileage unit for under $6,000. Compare that to a high mileage Toyota or Honda 4 banger, possibly stick shift, for about $13,000

There is a real world reason metro taxi companies, airport limo services and police departments prefer these cars. I am a Town Car owner but to argue beside my mere personal experience, professional drivers tell me that you can get 150,000 reliable miles from these cars with minimal maintenance. That is saying something, considering professionals put a car through more punnishment in one day that a consumer does in months. I know. I know. I am recommending an ... American Made Car, not a magic Japanese car.

Honda Civics are noisey & neither Toyota or Honda cars ride like a big American car. If you do the math, Japanese cars do not save enough gas dollars, even if you figure $5 a gallon, to come near to making up the cost differential.

Want a high performance car? The interceptor version of the Fords I mentioned are true high performance cars. If you want a new car, Crown Vics and Grand Marquis can be purchased new for under $30,000, especially now. I would go used, since a lot of perfect condition newer used models are being traded in for Camry's, Accords & Focuses. Dealers are exploiting the current hysteria over gas mileage to knock down trade-in price & these great cars are selling slowly right now, as consumers who do not do the math shy away from bigger cars.

--Bruised

christopher_wolf · #24 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Sat Jun 03, 2006 4:06 pm

Good points there, but those are the only Fords I would touch next to a Mustang.

Toyota and Lexus have been doing things right from the start around 1992 to the present; there is a reason that the Camry is the most popular car now.

There is also, what I like to call, The Blues Brothers reasoning (muc h the same to what you pointed out)

(Referenced from IMDB and what I can remember about the original movie, the car was a Dodge police cruiser )

[Elwood Blues Jake Blues has a fight over the police car Elwood Blues got after he traded away the original bluesmobile for a microphone]
Elwood: You don't like it?
Jake: No I don't like it...
[Elwood Blues floors the pedal and jumps over an open drawbridge]
Jake: Car's got a lot of pickup.
Elwood: It's got a cop motor, a 440 cubic inch plant, it's got cop tires, cop suspensions, cop shocks. It's a model made before catalytic converters so it'll run good on regular gas. What do you say, is it the new Bluesmobile or what?
[a brief thinking pause while Jake Blues lights a cigarette]

Still makes me laugh when I think about it.

BruisedQuasar · #25 Post by **BruisedQuasar** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 3:54 pm

C_wolf, Your post made me laugh. The Blues Brothers is the only purely entertainment movie I can watch a couple of times a year and enjoy it each time. The deal about the beat up cop car is comic. As in all great comedy, there is truth in it.

When I was a teen, my friends and I thought nothing of "assembling our own car" and running it on an illegal street strip. Our top car was a 1957 Ford Police Cruiser we bought for $55. You couldn't buy a fully functional interceptor then. We bought the car. It was in great shape, regulation black wall tires and all. We then tracked down a low ratio police interceptor trans and at other auction we picked up an engine. For a full two years, we had the hottest street racer around. We won a lot of side bets with that car. It had been an unmarked car so it looked like just a flat black '57 Ford. Could it fly! The engine came with a full blown Holly 4- barrel carborator and the transmission was special from Muncy, Indiana, I think.

We were a stealth group. We followed the philosophy of low profile. We kept the Ford looking very ordinary. No special chrome, no blower or glass packs. No fancy tires. We left it very plain & flat black. We just cleaned it up inside and out. We had real chrome then, so we did polish up the chrome real nice. Couldn't resist that on Fri and Sat nights!

If you knew the era, you could imagine us in our black pocket T-shirts, Levi jeans, engineer boots & hard box marboros tucked under our left shirt sleeve. Duck tail hair, combed back, proudly showing out widow's peak front hair line. Long Evis-like side burns and clean shaven. After two years, the word got out all over our county & the next, about our plain looking, police interceptor-fast '57 Ford.

Much to our shock we were outrun and smoked by an old man in his Chrysler Royal Imperial Crown, a huge car with a push button automatic trans. Talk about raw power!

--Bruised

epbrown · #26 Post by **epbrown** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 11:46 am

I'm a big BMW fan (I own a 2003 325i and 2003 Z4), but judging from your requirements, I'd go with the Acura TSX or (you didn't mention it) the Infiniti G35. Both are reliable, comfortable sport sedans and I liked both when i test drove them, but imo the Germans have everyone beat when it comes to handling, and when I drove the 325i with Sport Package I knew I'd found my car.

Of course, for the same money you could get a decent Porsche 911 or BMW M3. They'd cost more in maintenance, but they're awesome cars and you're young and should enjoy yourself. Safe, comfortable, and reliable is what I'll buy when I'm old!

#27 Post by **JHEM** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 1:27 pm

epbrown wrote:I'm a big BMW fan

Otherwise known as a propellor?

I just bit the bullet and grabbed a loaded low-mileage '03 MB E500 lease return.

After a month of actively looking for a replacement for "The Hammer" I had reached saturation and was considering sticking with the status quo awhile longer.

But I got a call to come look at this car and it was everything I wanted. Jet black, all leather, BIG V-8, etc., etc., 23K miles and $34K!

Couldn't resist.

Regards,

James

christopher_wolf · #28 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 2:18 pm

JHEM wrote:
epbrown wrote:I'm a big BMW fan
Otherwise known as a propellor?

I just bit the bullet and grabbed a loaded low-mileage '03 MB E500 lease return.

After a month of actively looking for a replacement for "The Hammer" I had reached saturation and was considering sticking with the status quo awhile longer.

But I got a call to come look at this car and it was everything I wanted. Jet black, all leather, BIG V-8, etc., etc., 23K miles and $34K!

Couldn't resist.

Regards,

James

Enjoy it, James; my uncle had an E500 for quite awhile, very good acceleration and pickup. Loaded with features and it was practically the ideal car. The ride was good at any speed.

epbrown · #29 Post by **epbrown** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 5:38 pm

JHEM wrote:
epbrown wrote:I'm a big BMW fan
Otherwise known as a propellor?

Just finished taping a show on Speed Channel about the ///M series

I just bit the bullet and grabbed a loaded low-mileage '03 MB E500 lease return.

Congrats - that's a great car. I thought you were looking at an S600 for the Mrs.?

christopher_wolf · #30 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 5:57 pm

It has been my understanding that the Missus would greatly enjoy an SL600, No?

What's the best car around $30,000~$35,000?

What's the best car around $30,000~$35,000?

Re: What's the best car around $30,000~$35,000?

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