High frequency from fan

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squashball · #31 Post by **squashball** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 2:35 am

It is a "user error" to hear a nasty sound?

christopher_wolf · #32 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 2:57 am

squashball wrote:It is a "user error" to hear a nasty sound?

Sometimes; sometimes it is also in error for them to brush it off as "within standard variation." They hold many wildcards to get rid of people requesting fixes that they deem non-standard (because it would cost them money to change procedures to do it.). Basically, it comes down to a stonewalling technique. You could, however, ask them to escalate it.

squashball · #33 Post by **squashball** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 3:03 am

Well, I didn't get the feeling, that they are trying to get rid of me:
They will switch my fan with a new (other?) one, send it back to me and I will still be able to say no!
I really have the feeling that they do not have better fans!
I am [censored] sure that the sound comes from the fan, so what more can I do, than asking for a new fan?

christopher_wolf · #34 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 2:01 pm

squashball wrote:Well, I didn't get the feeling, that they are trying to get rid of me:
They will switch my fan with a new (other?) one, send it back to me and I will still be able to say no!
I really have the feeling that they do not have better fans!
I am [censored] sure that the sound comes from the fan, so what more can I do, than asking for a new fan?

See what the system with the new fan sounds like. I listened to that mp3 and it doesn't quite seem to me as it is coming from the fan. It is a periodic high-pitched series of chirps, no? The period seems a bit too large for the fan, especially at the higher RPMs. It sounds to me more like the buzzing noise that has been close to the USB ports. Although that doesn't make much sense either because with would that be doing chirping like that periodically.

Is it still there when the fan is off?

squashball · #35 Post by **squashball** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 2:07 pm

It is definetely gone with the fan at 0 rpm.
The pitch was quite constant. I think my wave file recording was not very good. I just listent again to the file and I agree that it does sound periodicly. Live, I never had that feeling!

lophiomys · #36 Post by **lophiomys** » Sun Jun 25, 2006 7:48 am

squashball wrote:It is a "user error" to hear a nasty sound?

No, its a matter of "Healthy Computing".
Maybe remind the IBM/Lenovo representatives of
Healthy Computing - Noise:
http://www.pc.ibm.com/ww/healthycomputing/vdt18.html
HTH

christopher_wolf · #37 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Sun Jun 25, 2006 3:35 pm

If it is periodic and related to the fan, in rotational/mechanical sense, then the period cannot be larger than the time it takes for the fan to complete one physical revolution *unless* there is a gear/transmission assembly and a gear, which is spinning at a lower RPM. Even that wouldn't make a sound like [*Silence*...*Series of high pitched and frequent whines*....*Silence*...*Repeat*]

So, if the pitch is constant and fan isn't encountering obstacles, then it is probably the fan motor that is doing that.

And reminding them about "Healthy Computing" isn't going to do a bit of good; maybe in an email to the regional managers...but not to the techs and service managers.

bri · #38 Post by **bri** » Wed Jun 28, 2006 9:10 am

squashball or omou have you gotten your machines back from EZServ yet? I'm about to send mine in, would just like to know whether they can fix it or not

squashball · #39 Post by **squashball** » Sat Jul 01, 2006 2:36 pm

bri wrote:squashball or omou have you gotten your machines back from EZServ yet? I'm about to send mine in, would just like to know whether they can fix it or not

Just got it back - nothing fixed...
I will have a call with ibm at Monday - maybe they have an idea...

squashball · #40 Post by **squashball** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 4:59 am

squashball wrote:I will have a call with ibm at Monday - maybe they have an idea...

Hi there!
IBM wants to have a look at the notebook in there own repair-center. (The last one was the service center from my dealer).
I also told them about this forum - so be aware - they are watching us

arthurcorell · #41 Post by **arthurcorell** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 7:29 am

I got my 2623-D7U about a month ago. This morning I was using my laptop at home. I heard the noise and found out that related with the FAN.

I will call IBM this morning and see what they can do !

Yes, it's constant !

Is this just for T60 or both T60 and T60P ?

squashball · #42 Post by **squashball** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 9:46 am

squashball wrote:
squashball wrote:I will have a call with ibm at Monday - maybe they have an idea...
Hi there!
IBM wants to have a look at the notebook in there own repair-center. (The last one was the service center from my dealer).
I also told them about this forum - so be aware - they are watching us

Well, my dealer is not willing to extend my right to return the thinkpad. So I will not send it to the IBM service center, but back to my dealer...
So good bye T60...
I wish you good luck and keep me informed about the problem. Maybe I will buy again if it is solved...
Greets!

bri · #43 Post by **bri** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 1:48 pm

I got mine back from EasyServ, the only note on the repair order is that they updated the BIOS

nothing about the fan. Barring my mind playing tricks on me, the high pitch whining does seem a little more subdued and difficult to notice unless my ears directly facing the vent.

Furthermore, I'm not as annoyed by the fan... after comparing to other laptops it is virtually silent. It could be, in the absence of the sound of rushing air, the sound of the motor itself is more noticeable.

Omou · #44 Post by **Omou** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 5:36 pm

Greetings all. Sorry for the long hiatus since my last update. I was out of town for a while and that combined with some other distractions kept me from returning to this fan issue.

I sent in my T60 to EZServ along with a concise and very polite letter detailing the problem as I experienced it and what in my opinion might be an acceptable course of action to resolve the issue (replace the fan). Upon receiving the unit back today and powering it up, the fan does sound quieter. The part description on the action report states "Misc parts" and the pandemic BIOS EC update. Before sending it in, I marked the fan so that I could tell if it had actually been replaced, and the fan in there now is in fact a different one from the original.

The high pitched sound and specifically the pulsing behavior is still evident in a quiet environment, it might be a bit less obtrusive than it was before being serviced. It is still frustrating though, as when the unit was brand new I operated it in the same quiet environment and never noticed this sound. It's only after an initial service cycle that this became an issue.

I just wish I knew exactly what is vibrating to cause this sound that is the same across multiple fans on the same machine and fans in others' machines as well. Maybe it's something on the motherboard in conjunction with the fan rotating that is causing the sound. I gues the only thing to do now is use the machine as I normally would and try to forget about this sound. If I find that it is actually more annoying than I am willing to admit right now, I'll have to figure out something else to do about eliminating it.

Cheers.

squashball · #45 Post by **squashball** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 7:13 am

Any news? Has anyone solved the problem?
Cheers!

bri · #46 Post by **bri** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 9:33 am

After checking out a T43 with it's jet turbine fan it doesn't seem like such a big deal anymore

I hardly notice the T60 fan now.

SlyD · #47 Post by **SlyD** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 1:03 pm

Hi!

I just wanted to report that I had the same issue with the high pitch fan noise on two T60, a 2007-FSG and a 2007-53G ... I returned them both after a few days because this was really annoying!

Why does Lenovo make such a [censored] nice notebook with such a bad fan? Or - more probably it is the control System and the PWM frequency that causes this... but I don't know this for sure.

Any news about this issue? Has anyone fixed it?

I am now searching for another Thinkpad quality Notebook that does not make such bad noise. Does anyone know if the R60 has such problems? Sure it has no flexview... but quiet notebook is more important...

christopher_wolf · #48 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 3:08 pm

Why are some of the fans so loud? Easy; I will answer that with another question.

Why are some of the users even louder?

EOMtp · #49 Post by **EOMtp** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 5:04 pm

If T60 fans are not damaged (during fan assemly or mounding into the Thinkpad), then they are quieter than the T4x fans ... they run virtually silently. The noisy ones are defective/damaged units. That is the explanation.

SlyD · #50 Post by **SlyD** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 7:37 am

@christopher_wolf:

No no don't get me wrong - the typical fan noise (means: blowing air out of the notebook) was very silent and good!
I only talk about this high pitch noise!

@EOMtp:
I had this noise on TWO machines that were different models from different production weeks!
Also other users report about this noise, so I believe that many people just can't hear this high frequency noise from their T60!

I don't think that this is bad assembly... well - if it really is bad assemby, then it happens very often and I can't try out 10 notebooks until I get a silent one!

christopher_wolf · #51 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 12:58 pm

I am not sure this affects alot of T60s, but it does seem to happen to a few.

And I don't know about the high frequency thing; there are ways to measure it; although all of this is getting to the point of absurdity and could possibly make it beyond.

Is it possible that there could be a loose fitting near the fan setup that could be vibrating? I kind doubt that given the nature of the noise; but also given the nature of the noise, it does sound like it is something that is up with the fan rotor when it spins....or an electrically inducded high-frequency, much like that which some have heard from the USB ports at times. It would be great if one could run the fan outside the Thinkpad and get a real good look at how it operates.

EOMtp · #52 Post by **EOMtp** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 4:37 pm

SlyD wrote:... so I believe that many people just can't hear this high frequency noise from their T60!

You are correct that many people cannot hear the sounds which drive others nuts! That's not the case here.
Let me be precise: I am talking about T60p fans with FRU #41V9932 (what IBM calls "Discrete" type). These are silent. There are different fan assemblies on other units, and perhaps it is those fan assemblies which have the congenital noise problem.

SlyD · #53 Post by **SlyD** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 5:36 pm

@Christopher:
I would check the fan - definetely! I am currently sitting in my electronics lab stocked with lots of nice equipment

BUT: I'd loose warranty and my right of return --> No way!
I would accept to modify a cheap notebook from the super market, but not a Thinkpad in warranty!

I think the fan assembly only as replacement part is $175 as far as I've seen it... too expensive just for testing this

@EOMtp:
Interesting! There are really two different fan assemblies:
41V9931 ("Integrated") and 41V9932 ("Discrete")
see:
http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... MIGR-62741

What's the difference between the "Integrated" and "Discrete" type?

Well, even if the 41V9932 is silent and I could replace it - I would loose warranty...

Anyway, as far as I remember there was at least one user that reported this noise on a T60p (in another Forum, not here)!

sw-rick · #54 Post by **sw-rick** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 3:41 am

Well, you are certainly not alone. I have the exact same high pitched noise as can be heared on the sound file posted here. It is actually starting to bug me a lot as well.

I have heard a similar noise on my wife's Acer Ferrari notebook, but only when the screen refreshes. So it is probably some chip that makes the noise there.

Maybe I just got to go to a couple of really loud rock concerts and get my hearing messed up so I do not have to hear this stuff anymore ... but then again you have tinnitus ...

SW-Rick

SlyD · #55 Post by **SlyD** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 3:59 am

Sure I am not the only one that can hear this

Would be strange otherwise...

Standing next to the 1.000.000W Speakers on a Rock Festival would be a good idea to solve the problem

The sounds that other notebooks make (also the thinkpads make these noises, but not that loud...) come from the inductors (coils) of the DC/DC convertors used to generate all kinds of different voltages the processor and GPU etc. need. And because of dynamical Voltage adjustment for power management, these sounds change very often.

fabri · #56 Post by **fabri** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 10:46 am

Ok, I need one of these 1MW speakers...

No, seriously, I have the same problem and I sent the T60 to be repaired. It has just returned now, noise still there, nothing changed :evil: . They say they have changed the system board.

What a delusion! I am going to sell it...

marlinspike · #57 Post by **marlinspike** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 1:14 pm

Hmmmm, mine doesn't make such a noise. Have you tried the adjusting the vent blade technique mentioned in one of the earlier posts?

nxman · #58 Post by **nxman** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 5:51 am

I never had this sound in my 15 inch T60 but the first day i received
my second 14 inch T60 iv'e noticed it right away! you only can hear it In extremely quiet places but after the latest bios update i cant remember hearing it again although i work in a very quiet place even if it returns it doesn't bother me.

grem1in · #59 Post by **grem1in** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 2:53 am

squashball wrote:..just finished the call:

Op: "Make a BIOS update and the noise is history"
Me: "No, it is definitely the fan, what you mean is the problem with the powersave mechanisme of the cpu! I fixed THAT problem by turning off the poersaving cpu stuff in the BIOS."
Op: "Oh, ok"

I am going to send the whole stuff back and they will have a look at it. Unfortunately, that means erasing the disk

I really hope that they will not send it back to me with comments like "we can't hear anything" or "fixed" (but nothing done)...

Exactly, BIOS->Config->Power->CPU Power Management->Disable (Was: Automatic) and the problem with high disturbing noise is solved and fixed

rubbish84 · #60 Post by **rubbish84** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 11:54 am

I just did this on my T61 and it solved the high frequency problem as well.

I would like to know though what does this bios feature actually do? Will it comprimise my battery life time by disabling this feature?

High frequency from fan

ergonomics

Same here

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