Major performance issues with T60p (vs T41p)

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hoya · #31 Post by **hoya** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 8:58 pm

PhilB wrote:FWIW, IBM's "Rescue and Recovery" can bring the latest and greatest system to a crawl.

when it is creating a backup or at all times?

I am extremely displeased with the performance of my T60 to the point where I am considering a Dell.

Kamika007z · #32 Post by **Kamika007z** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 9:10 am

Trust me, you don't want a Dell. I keep deploying them here at my job and they aren't as good. If anything, you'll like them when they're brand new and then after 2-3 months usage, you'll really regret it.

#33 Post by **archer6** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 10:33 am

hoya wrote:I am considering a Dell.

There is no substitute for the Dell experience. It beats having to continually complain about your ThinkPad. Personal experience in this case is the best experience.

jjesusfreak01 · #34 Post by **jjesusfreak01** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 11:06 am

archer6 wrote:
hoya wrote:I am considering a Dell.
There is no substitute for the Dell experience. It beats having to continually complain about your ThinkPad. Personal experience in this case is the best experience.

Youll have to leave and go to Forums.DellPad.com

smugiri · #35 Post by **smugiri** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 11:28 am

This may sound foolish but it may be as simple as running PIO mode rather than DMA.

Have you checked that?

Kamika007z · #36 Post by **Kamika007z** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 12:17 pm

archer6 wrote:
hoya wrote:I am considering a Dell.
There is no substitute for the Dell experience. It beats having to continually complain about your ThinkPad. Personal experience in this case is the best experience.

http://www.betanews.com/article/Another ... 1154118238

Have fun reading this.

#37 Post by **archer6** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 3:23 pm

Kamika007z wrote:Have fun reading this.

This is precisely my point!.....

Some people have to learn the hard way by actually throwing money away. The result is a product that is so bad that it's unbelieveable until they have the experience themselves. Once having had the "Dell Experience" then suddenly all of the feedback on this forum suggesting that Dell is not the answer for the individual, actually becomes real for them.

Speaking for myself, you could not "pay me" to waste my time with a Dell....

#38 Post by **archer6** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 3:46 pm

hoya wrote:I am extremely displeased with the performance of my T60 to the point where I am considering a Dell.

jjesusfreak01 wrote:
archer6 wrote: There is no substitute for the Dell experience. It beats having to continually complain about your ThinkPad. Personal experience in this case is the best experience.
Youll have to leave and go to Forums.DellPad.com

jjesusfreak01, you are missing the point here. If he is so unhappy with the ThinkPad, simply referring him to a Dell Forum is not going to change his mind.

You'll notice that I did _not_ say have a "great Dell experience". What I said was there is no substitute for the Dell experience. ( I know this from listening to people who have bought Dell laptops ). Just like there is no experience like having the brand new car you just purhased leave you stranded by the side of the road.

Some people must actually spend money to have the first hand experience of what a real substandard problematic laptop is like. It's about his belief and I quote" I am extremely displeased with the performance of my T60 to the point where I am considering a Dell"... so a buy Dell already...

Some people simply have to have the first hand experience and are willing to spend the money to do it. So spend the money, find out what cheap and substandard truly mean.

hoya · #39 Post by **hoya** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 4:09 pm

smugiri wrote:This may sound foolish but it may be as simple as running PIO mode rather than DMA.

Have you checked that?

are you saying that I should be running in PIO mode? My Primary IDE is Ultra DMA Mode 5, Secondary is Ultra DMA Mode 2.

I changed from SATA to compatibility mode in the BIOS as per this thread: http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=26878

christopher_wolf · #40 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 4:09 pm

Hoya, I have one thing to say to you....

"Dude, you're getting a skin graft!"

hoya · #41 Post by **hoya** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 4:20 pm

christopher_wolf wrote:Hoya, I have one thing to say to you....

"Dude, you're getting a skin graft!"

very funny guys... and I thought my T43 was hot!

after looking in the Dell forums I'm no longer interested in the D620 - people are complaining about grainy screens and such.

I removed Office 2007 and the accompanying MS Indexing service 3.0 and things seems much faster. I'm still not 100% satisfied but I've ruled out a Dell for the time being...

christopher_wolf · #42 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 4:23 pm

Great; by the way, mind putting a location in your profile?

#43 Post by **archer6** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 5:56 pm

hoya wrote: very funny guys...

after looking in the Dell forums I'm no longer interested in the D620 - people are complaining about grainy screens and such. I'm still not 100% satisfied but I've ruled out a Dell for the time being...

See how much we care....

... it's nice to have you "back" in the community here sans skin graft...

As far as being 100% satisfied, If I ever get there it's time to shoot me...

arnvid · #44 Post by **arnvid** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 5:50 pm

New bios out and no improvement at all.. really a big dissapointment this machine.. We've stopped buying the p modells now.. just no point

hoya · #45 Post by **hoya** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 11:36 am

I uninstalled Access Connections and the system seems slightly faster, but something is still amiss. I frequently get 60 second plus delays resuming from standby. I'm using WindowsLive OnceCare which supposedly has a minimal hit on performance, but I would consider something else if recommended.

Has anyone figured out how to disable NCQ on this Seagate Momentus 7200.1 drive? I still need to try that option.

mattbiernat · #46 Post by **mattbiernat** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 12:28 pm

hoya wrote:I am considering a Dell.

i had toshiba and apple. toshiba broke 6 months after the one year warranty expired while apple gave me falling apppart ibook (i was actually considering of getting superglue to glue the plastic the way it suppose to be glued). T60 for me was a huge jump in quality and if the notebook does not brake down in a year and a half it will beat my previous toshiba.
dell use to make pretty good desktops long time ago but from what i hear right now dell = crap.

at339 · #47 Post by **at339** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 2:03 am

I've had both the Seagate and the Hitachi on the hard drive "drag strip" and the Hitachi wins the race every single time, convicingly!

A real world example: With the exact same Windows XP image on both drives, starting up Windows with the Hitachi from power-on to settling of the hard drive clocked in at 2:35. The Seagate crawled across the finish line an entire minute (60 seconds) later!

The Seagate is surprisingly slow! It's amazing how the tech media gets so excited about it, yet in the real world it performs like a 5400 RPM drive.

As an aside, for those of you with Hitachi 60 GB 7200 RPM drives, you can get a noticeable improvement in laptop performance by upgrading to the Hitachi 100 GB 7200 RPM drive. There is about a 40% speed increase! (based on Ghost 10 disk to disk copy Hitachi 60 GB to 60 GB vs. Hitachi 100 GB to 100 GB).

hoya · #48 Post by **hoya** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 8:27 am

at339 wrote:I've had both the Seagate and the Hitachi on the hard drive "drag strip" and the Hitachi wins the race every single time, convicingly!

A real world example: With the exact same Windows XP image on both drives, starting up Windows with the Hitachi from power-on to settling of the hard drive clocked in at 2:35. The Seagate crawled across the finish line an entire minute (60 seconds) later!

do you have NCQ enabled on the Seagate? I'm seriously considering putting this Seagate on eBay since I can't seem to figure out how to disable NCQ which is supposedly causing the terrible performance on my T60.

at339 · #49 Post by **at339** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 8:30 am

No, I got rid of the Seagate.

Badger · #50 Post by **Badger** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 10:47 am

Make sure they actually sent you a 100gb 7200 drive. I ordered one and they sent me the 80gb 5400 rpm drive

hoya · #51 Post by **hoya** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 1:53 pm

I just came across this comparison of the 7K100 and 7200.1 - looks like the Hitachi did better in most of the tests:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/storag ... -7200.html

but this review concludes that the 7200.1 is better:
http://techreport.com/reviews/2006q1/mo ... dex.x?pg=1

to further muddy the waters, this page at Seagate's site claims that 7200.1 doesn't even support NCQ-
http://www.seagate.com/support/kb/disc/ ... a_ncq.html
even though this page clearly states that NCQ is supported:
http://www.seagate.com/cda/products/dis ... 70,00.html

anyone else confused?

spiike · #52 Post by **spiike** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 5:07 pm

Did you just try a "screw it and reformat" and start fresh? With my old laptop I ran and checked all possible problems from hijack-this analysis to sata analysis just like you're doing now. I figured just dump everything and start fresh. Performance met expectations afterwards.

Badger · #53 Post by **Badger** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 7:17 pm

spiike wrote:Did you just try a "screw it and reformat" and start fresh? With my old laptop I ran and checked all possible problems from hijack-this analysis to sata analysis just like you're doing now. I figured just dump everything and start fresh. Performance met expectations afterwards.

I have to agree -- there's no way you should be experiencing a 60 second delay resuming from standby unless you downloaded/installed something that doesn't agree with your machine.

hoya · #54 Post by **hoya** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 12:25 pm

sounds like that's the route I need to take. I plan to strip away a few other ThinkVantage apps and switch my security app before wiping out the drive. I'm also planning to switch to a T61 so I'm hoping to stick with this image for the next month or so.

Edit: I just ordered a new T60 w/ Core 2 Duo, due to ship on 10/31.

#55 Post by **tomh009** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 9:17 pm

hoya wrote:I uninstalled Access Connections and the system seems slightly faster, but something is still amiss. I frequently get 60 second plus delays resuming from standby.

60 seconds from standby? Do you have persistent network connections?

hoya · #56 Post by **hoya** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 10:08 pm

not sure how to answer that... I always leave my WiFi 'on' so I suppose yes. My new C2D T60 should arrive tomorrow so hopefully the new Lenovo image will cure some of these ills.

#57 Post by **tomh009** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 10:22 pm

hoya wrote:not sure how to answer that... I always leave my WiFi 'on' so I suppose yes. My new C2D T60 should arrive tomorrow so hopefully the new Lenovo image will cure some of these ills.

Sorry, should have been more specific. These would be connections to Windows shared folders or printers (e.g. print or file server connections). WiFi in itself should not be an issue.

mcvosi · #58 Post by **mcvosi** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 12:50 pm

I experienced the same performance issues after I updated the system using System Update. I found the performance killer to be the "Client Security Solution." Once removed, all was performing as expected.

ducky2802 · #59 Post by **ducky2802** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 10:40 am

Ive been reading up here and its pretty interesting. I noticed a "seat of the pants" feel jump in performance by upgrading to the latest intel matrix driver thing on lenovo (just yesterday). And from what Im guessing, I do have NCQ enabled on this drive. I dont have the before and after results, but running a seagate 5400.3 120gb, I get on hd tune:

HD Tune: ST9120822AS Benchmark

Transfer Rate Minimum : 21.3 MB/sec
Transfer Rate Maximum : 45.3 MB/sec
Transfer Rate Average : 34.6 MB/sec
Access Time : 15.6 ms
Burst Rate : 88.6 MB/sec
CPU Usage : 2.4%

For reference, I ran it on a sony vaio fs (much older laptop) with a seagate 7200.1, and I got

HD Tune: ST980825A Benchmark

Transfer Rate Minimum : 22.6 MB/sec
Transfer Rate Maximum : 41.7 MB/sec
Transfer Rate Average : 34.3 MB/sec
Access Time : 15.1 ms
Burst Rate : 69.3 MB/sec
CPU Usage : 5.9%

And for kicks, I ran it on the ultrabay oem 5400 100gb fujistu:

HD Tune: FUJITSU MHV2100BH Benchmark

Transfer Rate Minimum : 18.5 MB/sec
Transfer Rate Maximum : 39.1 MB/sec
Transfer Rate Average : 30.3 MB/sec
Access Time : 18.4 ms
Burst Rate : 60.0 MB/sec
CPU Usage : 3.4%

I wonder if the NCQ support on the seagate is really helping, or if that is just because its located on the primary ide channel and the oem test was done on ultrabay. Either way, with the update, and AHCI enabled by default on the bios, it does feel faster than just two days ago!

pianowizard · #60 Post by **pianowizard** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 10:59 am

This is the first time I've read this thread.

Kamika007z wrote:http://www.betanews.com/article/Another ... 1154118238

Have fun reading this.

So, did you also have fun reading about those exploding Thinkpads shortly after that Dell article?

Major performance issues with T60p (vs T41p)

Dump the Seagate 7200 RPM Drive!!!!

Re: Dump the Seagate 7200 RPM Drive!!!!

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