Music lags when wireless is enabled - HELP!!

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mtbiac · #1 Post by **mtbiac** » Mon Aug 09, 2004 2:42 pm

I just noticed that my music mp3s lag horribly when I have the freaking wireless internet on my T42p GVU enabled. I ran adaware, spybot, and AVG, and I can up clean so thats not the problem. It lags with both my USB m-audio Audiophile soundcard and the built in IBM soundmax. I'm using foobar2000 as an mp3 player. I tried disabling letting windows handle wireless networks, that didnt help. I also uninstalled the IBM wireless utility a few days ago because it was conflicting with windows'

HELP!! how do I fix this? It's very annoying, especially since I just spent $160 on this sound card and it's worthless with all this lagging (music pauses for a millisecond every so often, usually 20sec and on into a song. It doesnt do this all the time, but much more often than not I've tried increasing the buffer size in foobar also, didnt help

thanks for the help

sktn77a · #2 Post by **sktn77a** » Mon Aug 09, 2004 3:17 pm

Well, I don't think this is normal (I don't recall having this problem before). Have you tried WMP for MP3 playback? Go to task manager when you're playing an MP3 and look to which processes are soaking up CPU utilization. I notice that the graphics on WMP can hog a lot of CPU resource.

mtbiac · #3 Post by **mtbiac** » Mon Aug 09, 2004 3:50 pm

sktn77a wrote:Well, I don't think this is normal (I don't recall having this problem before). Have you tried WMP for MP3 playback? Go to task manager when you're playing an MP3 and look to which processes are soaking up CPU utilization. I notice that the graphics on WMP can hog a lot of CPU resource.

nothing is using CPU man. Its almost always at 99% idle. This is [censored] [censored] I cant get ANYTHING to stop this. Winamp also lags.

somebody please help!?!?

boudie · #4 Post by **boudie** » Mon Aug 09, 2004 4:04 pm

I've got a T40 and it seems almost all the interrupts are
on IRQ 11. The sound card, USB controllers, modem,
ethernet an PC card bus.
Now I don't know enough about computers to know if
the ACPI or APIC controls these when running. Suppose
you could also change your IRQ settings in BIOS.
Would like to know myself why this is.

Chun-Yu · #5 Post by **Chun-Yu** » Mon Aug 09, 2004 4:12 pm

That is definitely not normal, since foobar2000 runs absolutely fine on my T41. Perhaps try changing the audio output?

BTW, foobar2000 is a great player - come by #foobar2000 on irc.freenode.net if you're on IRC sometime

Nabeel · #6 Post by **Nabeel** » Mon Aug 09, 2004 4:12 pm

Try disabling the built in sound and using only one device. It could be because theyre sharing the IRQ

mtbiac · #7 Post by **mtbiac** » Mon Aug 09, 2004 4:21 pm

tried disabling internal sound, still lags.

I'm really getting [censored] off here, I dont know what else to do.

thanks for the help

mtbiac · #8 Post by **mtbiac** » Mon Aug 09, 2004 4:57 pm

I rolled back to yesterday, the day I had used the recovery discs to reinstall the factory windows setup. I only have like 3 programs that I installed, everything else is factory specs and it STILL lags when i play music!!!! AHHHHH WTF?!?! external soundcard has never been installed so its not that.

I think I'm going to go back to a clean install of windows. There was NO music lagging then. IBM seems to have [censored] up. I really wish i could get this factory XP install working becdause I score about 700pts higher in 3dmark01 with it

PLEAES HELP!!

sktn77a · #9 Post by **sktn77a** » Mon Aug 09, 2004 5:08 pm

First of all, don't panic and get cranky! You say that you "rolled back to yesterday, the day I used the recovery CDs". So, was this a clean install or an XP rollback? Did the computer do this when it was new or did this just happen after you installed the M-audio card?

[/quote]

ian · #10 Post by **ian** » Mon Aug 09, 2004 5:17 pm

Interestingly, well for me at least, I have NO lag on music, DVDs, DivX etc. etc. with my factory installed, and Ian recreated, setup. Who f***** up there I wonder...

mtbiac · #11 Post by **mtbiac** » Mon Aug 09, 2004 5:34 pm

sorry, I'm just having a REALLY bad day

This was a CLEAN IBM factory XP install. I used the 7 recovery disks. I rolled back because I thought atleast my internal sound would work after that - but it does not.

The lagging only occurs when my Wireless a/b/g card is enabled. I installed the latest IBM wireless drivers, didnt help. However, I NEED to use this card at all times for internet access.

I'm now going to try a CLEAN XP install (not using recovery discs). What is the proper way to do this?

thanks.

ian · #12 Post by **ian** » Mon Aug 09, 2004 5:43 pm

I understand the frustration, but question the validity of the 'clean' install.

You'll reformat the disk, ok, then you'll load an OEM (or otherwise) version of XP, ok, then what? You'll have to load pretty much all the software you're missing from the IBM site - to do this you'll need an Internet connection - which you probably won't have if you're using the legacy drivers in XP - it's a bit chicken and egg isn't it.

Wouldn't it be easier to backout your MP3 player software and try Winamp or WMP without the third party codecs supplied with your player?
I think what I'm trying to say is that there is obviously a conflict somewhere - take out the most recent software BEFORE taking out the original IBM setup first.

Just a thought...

james32904 · #13 Post by **james32904** » Mon Aug 09, 2004 5:46 pm

I've noticed this on new Dells and Thinkpads. My theory is this: The new generation of modem cards and sound cards use "software intensive" approaches.. that is instead of doing a lot of the processing, such as sound synthesis, outboard of the main CPU, they use cheap "dumb" chip sets and force a lot of the processing in the CPU chip. Usually done in dll's or interrupt handlers so you may not see any CPU load reported. I haven't found a recent or "modern" laptop that has true hardware based wave synthesis or sound processing, unfortunately. So the CPU must read a block of sound data (audio samples) from the network, then decompress the data, then then poke the audio samples one by one into the sound chips (codec or D/A converter). So when a "gap" occurs, it's usually because the CPU had to read/write disk, or read a new block of data from the network. My old Dell Inspiron 5000 had true hardware based sound, thus no gaps. To reduce manufacturing costs and profit, recent manufacturers are using "dumb" sound chips that rely on a lot of the work being done by the CPU...You might be able to adjust some buffer sizes or task priorities somewhere to give priority to sound. Not sure how to do that. Good luck and welcome to the world of "modern" laptops with dumbed down sound chips.

mtbiac · #14 Post by **mtbiac** » Mon Aug 09, 2004 5:53 pm

ian wrote:I understand the frustration, but question the validity of the 'clean' install.

You'll reformat the disk, ok, then you'll load an OEM (or otherwise) version of XP, ok, then what? You'll have to load pretty much all the software you're missing from the IBM site - to do this you'll need an Internet connection - which you probably won't have if you're using the legacy drivers in XP - it's a bit chicken and egg isn't it.

Wouldn't it be easier to backout your MP3 player software and try Winamp or WMP without the third party codecs supplied with your player?
I think what I'm trying to say is that there is obviously a conflict somewhere - take out the most recent software BEFORE taking out the original IBM setup first.

Just a thought...

I already had a clean install. I backed up all the drivers on a CD and everything was working fine. Only reason I went back to the IBM factory setup is that I heard it got higher FPS in doom 3 (this was true). I have already tried winamp, still lags. Also tried latest WMP, lags.

So what do I do now? The ONLY programs I have installed are Ad-aware, AVG, Dec-C++ (C++ compiler), Far Cry (game), and mp3 player.

thanks for the help

sktn77a · #15 Post by **sktn77a** » Mon Aug 09, 2004 5:59 pm

What do you mean by a clean install? Do you mean the original factory install or did you wipe that and do a clean XP install from a MS/OEM disk (not the IBM recovery CDs). If you had it working (sound and wireless) what changed? Sounds like maybe IBM Access Connections if that wasn't on your clean install? this is known to produce some "funkies" with the windows wireless and possibly also other systems.

mtbiac · #16 Post by **mtbiac** » Mon Aug 09, 2004 6:06 pm

sktn77a wrote:What do you mean by a clean install? Do you mean the original factory install or did you wipe that and do a clean XP install from a MS/OEM disk (not the IBM recovery CDs). If you had it working (sound and wireless) what changed? Sounds like maybe IBM Access Connections if that wasn't on your clean install? this is known to produce some "funkies" with the windows wireless and possibly also other systems.

clean install = used separate windows XP installation disk. What changed? With the factory installation (recovery discs) I got all kinds of useless crap. I'm pretty sure it's something from that that is making my audio lag so badly.

would you advise on another clean (separate XP disk) install? I can't think of what else to do...

sugo · #17 Post by **sugo** » Mon Aug 09, 2004 9:05 pm

Have you tried upgrading firmware on your wireless access point?

Nabeel · #18 Post by **Nabeel** » Mon Aug 09, 2004 9:36 pm

james32904 wrote:I've noticed this on new Dells and Thinkpads. My theory is this: The new generation of modem cards and sound cards use "software intensive" approaches.. that is instead of doing a lot of the processing, such as sound synthesis, outboard of the main CPU, they use cheap "dumb" chip sets and force a lot of the processing in the CPU chip. Usually done in dll's or interrupt handlers so you may not see any CPU load reported. I haven't found a recent or "modern" laptop that has true hardware based wave synthesis or sound processing, unfortunately. So the CPU must read a block of sound data (audio samples) from the network, then decompress the data, then then poke the audio samples one by one into the sound chips (codec or D/A converter). So when a "gap" occurs, it's usually because the CPU had to read/write disk, or read a new block of data from the network. My old Dell Inspiron 5000 had true hardware based sound, thus no gaps. To reduce manufacturing costs and profit, recent manufacturers are using "dumb" sound chips that rely on a lot of the work being done by the CPU...You might be able to adjust some buffer sizes or task priorities somewhere to give priority to sound. Not sure how to do that. Good luck and welcome to the world of "modern" laptops with dumbed down sound chips.

I haven't got any skipping either, that's why I thought it might be an interrupt problem.

Have you tried calling IBM? Maybe they know..search their knowledge base too.

Roy_W · #19 Post by **Roy_W** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 2:28 am

Might seem like a stupid question but i've go to ask anyway, the MP3's are stored locally or are they stored on an Server on the Web.

mtbiac · #20 Post by **mtbiac** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 10:09 am

MP3s are stored on my desktop (C: drive).

So I just did an IBM recovery. EVerything was exactly like brand new. I then proceeded to uninstall Norton and a few of the other useless IBM utilities that I never use (IBM messages, Recordnow, and a few others that would NOT affect mp3 playback) and I also installed the windows updates that I Was prompted to do. Next, I installed foobar2000. The playback is much better, but it still "skips/lags" maybe like 5+ times per song. This is still somewhat annoying and definetly cannot be normal, right? But then I noticed that the IBM internal soundcard is a Soundmax DIGITAL AUDIO card (ie: it uses software instead of hardware to produce audio). This must be the problem, but how can I fix it? Is a USB external audio device with its own powersupply considered a "hardware" audio device??

any other ideas? Now I might have to go back to a clean OEM XP (not IBM recovery operation) install.

what do you guys think?

thanks again.

Chun-Yu · #21 Post by **Chun-Yu** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 10:09 am

That's an excellent question, Roy_W! If you're trying to play music over wireless, I wouldn't be surprised if it skipped. If this is the case, foobar2000 has you covered though - there's an option to buffer the entire file before starting to play it.

mtbiac · #22 Post by **mtbiac** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 10:13 am

Chun-Yu wrote:That's an excellent question, Roy_W! If you're trying to play music over wireless, I wouldn't be surprised if it skipped. If this is the case, foobar2000 has you covered though - there's an option to buffer the entire file before starting to play it.

yeah, I've also tried raising the buffer to the MAX and it STILL was skipping/lagging. It's got to be a problem with the soundmax "digital" audio card. I have no idea what to do though.

HOWEVER - when I turn OFF the Wireless, my problem goes away completely. NO skipping at all. This means that there is a sound and wireless conflict, right? any idea on how to fix that? I'm not familiar with changing IRQs on a laptop...

thanks

Nabeel · #23 Post by **Nabeel** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 10:42 am

Call IBM up. They probably have had this problem before too and maybe they know how to deal with it.

Chun-Yu · #24 Post by **Chun-Yu** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 11:43 am

What we're asking is - are the files you are trying to play stored on the ThinkPad's hard drive or on another computer (and you are trying to play them through the network)?

mtbiac · #25 Post by **mtbiac** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 12:14 pm

Chun-Yu wrote:What we're asking is - are the files you are trying to play stored on the ThinkPad's hard drive or on another computer (and you are trying to play them through the network)?

IBM C: drive (main HD) installed in the computer.

I just finished doing a fresh OEM XP CD install. so far so good, it's installing drivers/updates now with the Thinkpad software installer (very cool program, indeed!)

hope this works otherwise I'm SOL :-/

mtbiac · #26 Post by **mtbiac** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 12:52 pm

VICTORY

did a fresh OEM XP install, installed all the drivers and a few of the utilies (Battery, HD protection, bluetooth) and I've been playing music for 15min NO skipping

now I just have to figure out why my wireless is going kinda slow. only downloads at 25kb/s while my desktop computer downloads same file from same location at 200kb/s ... any ideas?

sktn77a · #27 Post by **sktn77a** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 6:20 pm

Don't use the internet to assess your wireless performance - transfer a large file (eg video or something 50-100Mb) from your desktop to your notebook and time it. You should be looking at 10-20Mbits/second on a a/g system (1-1.5 Mbytes/second - don't forget to correct network transfer rate "bits" to hard disk storage "bytes") and 2-4Mbits/sec on a g system.

Music lags when wireless is enabled - HELP!!

Music lags when wireless is enabled - HELP!!

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