Need Advice on Buying Older Used Laptop

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LynnB · #1 Post by **LynnB** » Sun Jun 25, 2006 9:24 pm

Hello,

New member here and first time poster. I'm afraid I am one of those people who has never owned a computer so I am a bit overwhelmed by all of the technical stuff at the moment and hope anyone who reads this will bear with me.

I have more or less decided I will get a used reconditioned IBM laptop on Ebay from a reputable seller w/ warranty. I am going for one with at least 700mhz 20gb and 265 memory (or less but upgradeable). And with Windows 2000 already installed.

Now this is the part I don't understand. I read somewhere that if you don't get recovery cd's you might as well throw the laptop out the window when you get it. Where do I get these, if they are available? and how many do I need?

Thanks for any input.

Regards,
Lynn

#2 Post by **rkawakami** » Sun Jun 25, 2006 10:22 pm

LynnB wrote:I read somewhere that if you don't get recovery cd's you might as well throw the laptop out the window when you get it. Where do I get these, if they are available? and how many do I need?

Welcome!

Recovery CDs are normally provided by the manufacturer of the laptop and contains most of the software that is stored on the hard disk drive upon delivery. This includes the operating system (i.e. Windows) and the system utilities and drivers for the specific hardware in the laptop. What is not usually included on the recovery disks are the application programs such as Word, Excel, PowerPoint, etc.

If you are buying from the original owner those disks should be included in the sale, otherwise you may have somewhat of a problem if and when you need to recover from a hardware failure (such as the disk going bad). On the other hand, since I assume you are considering something as old as the 600X series, you probably don't want to use Windows 98 or Windows NT which is what I believe those systems had when shipped new. If the laptop is advertised with Windows 2000 (or XP), then they have already re-formatted the drive and installed the new operating system themselves. Legally, they should provide you with those Windows disks. They will not be "recovery disks" as those are provided by IBM, and as I said, I don't believe that they ever shipped 600X systems with Win2000. What you should be getting from the seller in that case, is a retail copy of Windows on original (hologrammed) CDs along with the Certificate of Authenticity (COA).

If no disks are provided, you are free to install whatever operating system you want. Again, legally, you must use a licensed copy of Windows otherwise you may incur the wrath of one B. Gates. (I'm assuming you don't want to know or care what Linux is.) Drivers and utility programs specific to the IBM Thinkpads are available for downloading directly from IBM/Lenovo web sites.

By the way, the 600X series topped out at 650Mhz. If you want something faster than that, you should probably be looking at the T series. If the seller is offering a 600X faster than 650Mhz, then they (or somebody else before them) performed a CPU upgrade. It's up to you to decide if you want to run something that is not "factory stock".

(edit: corrected typo and clarified part about getting original Windows disk from seller)

#3 Post by **BillMorrow** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 12:32 am

i have an archive of recovery CD's for many thinkpad models..
which i will copy and send, for a small charge..

it all depends on which model you wind up getting..

mendocino, huh..?
been there.. nice little town..
i hope it still is..
have a friend/customer who has a big ranch in the county..
welcome..

LynnB · #4 Post by **LynnB** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 2:22 pm

Hello Ray,

I contacted a seller on Ebay who has a T20 Thinkpad up for auction advertised with Windows XP. I asked him if a COA or recovery disks are included. He said this laptop originally came installed with Windows 2000 but he just installed Windows XP from their disk. So there is no COA or any disks included with the laptop. A large majority of laptops are being sold this way on Ebay by reputable sellers so I assume this is legal or isn't it?

Lynn

LynnB · #5 Post by **LynnB** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 2:37 pm

Hello Bill,

Mendocino hasn't changed very much at all in the past 20 years that I have been here. Thank Goodness!:D

Lynn

bigtiger · #6 Post by **bigtiger** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 2:52 pm

Technically, it is illlegal. But it happens.

Now, microsoft has initiated a WGA (Windows Genuine Advantage?) program. When you update your windows, this WGA program will phone home. I noticed that on my T43. Although I use authentic windows xp, but I just disable the WGA program.

If you do not have a legal copy, this phone-home utility will give you a hard time. Rumors say that Microsoft will lock you machine.

LynnB · #7 Post by **LynnB** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 5:00 pm

bigtiger,

So would I be safe then from any illegal or major operating problems by getting a laptop that has any Windows already factory pre installed and there is a COA sticker affixed to the unit but no CD's or restore discs are included?

christopher_wolf · #8 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 12:13 am

bigtiger wrote:Technically, it is illlegal. But it happens.

Now, microsoft has initiated a WGA (Windows Genuine Advantage?) program. When you update your windows, this WGA program will phone home. I noticed that on my T43. Although I use authentic windows xp, but I just disable the WGA program.

If you do not have a legal copy, this phone-home utility will give you a hard time. Rumors say that Microsoft will lock you machine.

This phone-home thing can be blocked, intentionally or un-intentionally with a firewall and has been, previously, hacked within 24 hours of its release; it is that cheesy. Microsoft won't lock your system, but it will give you a hard time...you will still get the security updates though. It has actually been called Spyware since it mis-represents itself to the user as a critical security update when it really isn't.

I haven't gotten it yet and I don't think I will anytime soon.

#9 Post by **AlphaKilo470** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:06 am

bigtiger wrote:If you do not have a legal copy, this phone-home utility will give you a hard time. Rumors say that Microsoft will lock you machine.

Not as far as I know or at least not yet. I have a friend who can't install Direct X because the genuine advantage claims his Windows isn't legit but to this day (I hard him complain about this a few months ago) the only thing his computer is unable to do is benefit from all Windows updates.

bigtiger · #10 Post by **bigtiger** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:15 am

Yes, the phone home part is not difficult for computer savvy people. The first time I saw that utility, I disabled it from contacting the internet.

Well, if you have a sticker, I think you are entitled for a legal version.

About this utility, I think it is called wga.exe. I found it couple times trying to "phone home".

dsigma6 · #11 Post by **dsigma6** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:16 am

for people that cant use windows updates, wouldnt something like windiz work just fine for them? ive used it on my legal copy of w2k because IE would hang when checking for updates.

kstuart · #12 Post by **kstuart** » Thu Jun 29, 2006 9:03 pm

LynnB wrote: I have more or less decided I will get a used reconditioned IBM laptop on Ebay from a reputable seller w/ warranty. I am going for one with at least 700mhz 20gb and 265 memory (or less but upgradeable). And with Windows 2000 already installed.

I've spent the last few weeks scouring ebay for Thinkpads from 300mhz on up.

Some things on ebay sell for more, because people "have heard of them". For example, old used Dell laptops sell for more money than equally good old Toshiba and Fujitsu laptops - because people have heard of "Dell".

Similarly, Thinkpad 600's seem to sell for more than other Thinkpad models of equivalent specs. This is because they were very popular, and many people used them at businesses or universities.

The T20 is the later, improved model - more robust construction, useful "Thinklight" feature, cheap accessories - and yet it sells for less than the 600's with equivalent processor, memory, and hard drive.

Usually a very nice, clean, deluxe 600 sells for no less than $250, while I've seen equivalent T20's go for $150. I saw a totally tricked out T20 with maximum RAM, 2 batteries, case, etc. etc. go for $198.

Also, there are plenty of Thinkpads on ebay with the COA sticker on the bottom that gives you entirely legal right to the Windows specified on the sticker - probably Windows 2000 - so I see no reason to buy one without that.

Oh, and it is illegal for PCs to be sold with Wndows, but without the license, and ebay is supposed to check for that, but they generally don't.

I'm pretty sure that many of these companies that sell used laptops actually pull the stickers off, and then take the disks and sell them with the sticker as a "Legal Windows upgrade", while selling the laptop with Windows still installed.

They also pull out working batteries and sell them separately - most used laptops sold by companies have dead or almost dead batteries, so you may need to spend another $50 on a battery, unless the auction says "Good working battery".

BillD · #13 Post by **BillD** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 6:48 am

Similarly, Thinkpad 600's seem to sell for more than other Thinkpad models of equivalent specs. This is because they were very popular, and many people used them at businesses or universities.

Yeah,600's still sell for top dollar considering they are 6-7 years old and in computer years usually they'd be considered antiques..

But I'll say this about the 600 series. Of all the laptops I've dealt with they are,IMHO, the best laptop ever made by IBM or anyone else.. Light,small,durable as hell..

Also I think whats helped keeping the 600's popular is the boom in wireless networking.. They are perfect for many home users who want a 2nd laptop for just wirelessly surfing the net..Even though the video cards are 2 or 4 mb..The CPU's are slow,and there's a limit in the amount of RAM you can stick in the 600's,with wireless computering none of those limitations matter..They're a great little machine...

LynnB · #14 Post by **LynnB** » Sat Jul 01, 2006 4:07 pm

BillMorrow wrote:i have an archive of recovery CD's for many thinkpad models..
which i will copy and send, for a small charge..

it all depends on which model you wind up getting..

Thank you for the offer of recovery CD's. I will be sure to let you know if I need any. However I have another query. When a seller of a laptop says they don't have a recovery CD for Windows XP or 2000 is this a different kind of recovery CD other than the ones you have?

dsigma6 · #15 Post by **dsigma6** » Sat Jul 01, 2006 4:16 pm

i believe you're talking about the same kind of recovery discs- the ones that come with them for the original owner.

LynnB · #16 Post by **LynnB** » Sat Jul 01, 2006 4:33 pm

dsigma6 wrote:i believe you're talking about the same kind of recovery discs- the ones that come with them for the original owner.

So have I got this right then?... depending on the IBM model I end up with and assuming Bill Morrow will have copies of the Cd's for that model, I don't need to be concerned if a Windows recovery CD is not included with a used laptop when I purchase it?

dsigma6 · #17 Post by **dsigma6** » Sat Jul 01, 2006 5:51 pm

for the most part you dont have to worry. some models will require you to enter the license code found on the bottom of the laptop, but god knows a lot of sellers remove them. i believe even with the 600 for example, which requires the license key when you restore, can also be restored using discs from a T2X series with the addition of the 600e drivers. tfflivemb2 found this out for me through testing.

now even if it doesnt have the license key, and the discs work without entering the key- its illegal. but being illegal means little when bill gates isnt going to check it out anyway.

dont worry so much about it, you should be fine. if not from billmorrow, there is sure to be many people on here with what you'll need. when you figure it out, just post a wanted topic in the marketplace.

kstuart · #18 Post by **kstuart** » Sat Jul 01, 2006 6:40 pm

BillD wrote:
Similarly, Thinkpad 600's seem to sell for more than other Thinkpad models of equivalent specs. This is because they were very popular, and many people used them at businesses or universities.
Yeah,600's still sell for top dollar considering they are 6-7 years old and in computer years usually they'd be considered antiques..

But I'll say this about the 600 series. Of all the laptops I've dealt with they are,IMHO, the best laptop ever made by IBM or anyone else.. Light,small,durable as hell..

So, are you saying that you would prefer your 600 to your T23, if the 600 somehow could be fitted with an equivalent processor and memory ?

I have not used a 600, but I have a 570, which is supposed to be similar (since it is the ultra-portable version of the 600), and the 570 is not remotely as well designed or constructed as my T40 (without considering differences of processor and memory).

I was under the impression that a T20 with the same processor and memory as a 600 would be a better buy - especially considering they usually cost less, but even if they cost the same.

kstuart · #19 Post by **kstuart** » Sat Jul 01, 2006 6:45 pm

dsigma6 wrote: now even if it doesnt have the license key, and the discs work without entering the key- its illegal. but being illegal means little when bill gates isnt going to check it out anyway.

I beg to differ.

I downloaded the new Beta 3 version of IE7 and it checked twice whether my copy of Windows was a legal one...

dsigma6 · #20 Post by **dsigma6** » Sat Jul 01, 2006 9:23 pm

sometimes i dont reply to posts because ill be told im wrong. not that i care-

shes looking for an older machine, and chances are it would be running w2k, so that wouldnt be an issue. are you talking about the windows genuine advantage (wga.exe) tool running on your computer to check authenticity? if so, you can disable that and you won't have a problem.

christopher_wolf · #21 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Sat Jul 01, 2006 9:34 pm

That and Microsoft will stop supporting Windows 2000 in short order and you won't have to worry about WGA, WPA, WU, or WTF at all.

Well, that and IE7 isn't supported on Windows 2000 to begin with.

dsigma6 · #22 Post by **dsigma6** » Sat Jul 01, 2006 11:43 pm

Well, that and IE7 isn't supported on Windows 2000 to begin with

very true- and i consider it a blessing because i find ie7 to be a joke.

christopher_wolf · #23 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 12:07 am

dsigma6 wrote:
Well, that and IE7 isn't supported on Windows 2000 to begin with
very true- and i consider it a blessing because i find ie7 to be a joke.

Anything can be viewed as a joke from the right POV; IE7 laid down some improvements from IE6, but most of it has already been around on other browsers.

Besides, I switched over to Opera awhile ago and have had no problems thus far.

BillD · #24 Post by **BillD** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 5:16 am

kstuart wrote:
BillD wrote: Yeah,600's still sell for top dollar considering they are 6-7 years old and in computer years usually they'd be considered antiques..

But I'll say this about the 600 series. Of all the laptops I've dealt with they are,IMHO, the best laptop ever made by IBM or anyone else.. Light,small,durable as hell..
So, are you saying that you would prefer your 600 to your T23, if the 600 somehow could be fitted with an equivalent processor and memory ?

I have not used a 600, but I have a 570, which is supposed to be similar (since it is the ultra-portable version of the 600), and the 570 is not remotely as well designed or constructed as my T40 (without considering differences of processor and memory).

I was under the impression that a T20 with the same processor and memory as a 600 would be a better buy - especially considering they usually cost less, but even if they cost the same.

With me it's about 50-50..If I'm traveling or sitting outside surfing the net I prefer my 600x..It's smaller,lighter and it's much easier on the battery then my T23..But yeah,if the 600's had a larger video card memory,faster CPU,etc. I prefer the design of the 600's to any other laptop,including my T23...

Don't get me wrong,I love my T23...IMHO the T series are also great machines. But with laptops I've dealt with there's a few advantages the 600's have that no other model has...Besides design another big advantage is that they are very hard to kill..

That and Microsoft will stop supporting Windows 2000 in short order and you won't have to worry about WGA, WPA, WU, or WTF at all.

Just my opinion but since soooo many businesses still use W2K I can't see how MS will drop it's support for W2K anytime soon...

Website · #25 Post by **tfflivemb2** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 8:03 am

dsigma6 wrote:very true- and i consider it a blessing because i find ie7 to be a joke.

I really like IE7, aside from the fact that I can't make my truck payment online with it.

dsigma6 · #26 Post by **dsigma6** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 10:07 am

i view ie like...lets say hyundai. its been a troublesome product for some time, and now they think theyve got something creative- thats just a copy of what others have done.

ok bad analogy but dammit i just woke up.

serverbook · #27 Post by **serverbook** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 3:45 pm

by far the best laptop that supports native os is the ibm tp 600e,
hp 4150,and most p11-111 bx chipset laptops running neo magic video cards in (win 98se,2K,ME,XP,even in 2k3)from any standard microsoft os cd (no drivers needed),thus get you up and running on the net faster than many a p4 past and current spec machines that have inferior native driver support to the point the end user must load some drivers manually afterwards (what speed!)
and if you don't bsod in the process consider the haul a miracle
because there are many conflicts with non microsoft certified drivers,that is why and strongly reccomend no brainer to maintain laptops that are far more stable than anything currently on offer(period).
remmember mghz alone does not culminate to overall speed
500 is plenty 'nough.moreso faster than my brain could comprehend
hosepower i can comprehend mghz is not hosepower.

Need Advice on Buying Older Used Laptop

Need Advice on Buying Older Used Laptop

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