X31 w/ GeForce 6200 Review (with benchmarks)
X31 w/ GeForce 6200 Review (with benchmarks)
I recently bought a used X31 on Ebay, my first ever personal Thinkpad (I'd worked with them a bit through work). It's replacing an older laptop that was serving as my primary computer. One thing I've been missing on my laptops is the ability to play newer games in the evening. The X31 is not a gaming laptop, but thanks to the PCI slot in the full-size Dock I or Dock II, you can add a graphics card with more oomph. The problem as I saw it was that the laptop has an ATI graphics chip, but the last PCI card made with an ATI chipset was the Radeon 9250, which (despite Diamond's claims about one of their cards) is technically only a DirectX 8.1 level card, and a little less powerful than I'd like. I wanted an ATI card to minimize driver conflicts and possibly retain hot-docking capability. On the other hand, BFG makes a couple of PCI cards based on NVIDIA's GeForce 6200, which is DirectX 9 and clocked almost 50% faster than the 9250. However, I'd found reports that these cards had interoperability problems with some motherboards.
So, I went to Fry's and saw that they had both of BFG's cards in open boxes, and decided to buy one of each to test out, and to post the results here. There is the 6200oc with 256MB, and the 6200p with 128MB. Both did work, with some caveats, but there was almost no difference between the two performance or feature-wise. The biggest differences were the price ($150 vs. $100 at Fry's, or about $30 for the 6200p if ordered from Newegg), and the fan. The fan on the cheaper 6200p is much louder, but I figure it's most cost effective to buy it and replace the fan if it annoys you.
As to how well they worked, both performed nicely in pure 3D mode, and I was able to download and run a free trial account of City of Villains. Using the standard graphical settings, framerates were pretty bad (max of 15 fps, 4 fps typical in moderately crowded areas), but if you crank all the settings down to minimal the framerate jumps to a max around 60 fps and about 35 fps in moderately crowded areas.
On the other hand, working in 2D had definite problems. First off, there are small horizontal black lines that appear in graphics (jpgs, gifs, icons, GUI elements). Oddly enough, these lines seemed to occur to a much lesser degree even after reverting to the onboard graphics, though they do seem to have eventually gone away. More problematically, I had heard elsewhere that these cards have problems playing video, and I quickly confirmed this. Any type of video I tried to play, using several versions of players (including VLC), would run the CPU to maximum, cause severely sluggish response, cause the GUI to constantly re-draw window borders, and would completely fail to play the video. Task manager had to be resorted to to shut down the process. In case you think you can get by without video, I caution you that even browsing the internet can be tricky, as I would run into websites with embedded video of one kind or another, that caused the same problems. I even ran into the problem at one point attempting to use AVIcodec to determine the codec used in a particular movie.
Furthermore, I found that the laptop was no longer hot-dockable or undockable. The system needs to be shut down to undock, and although you can hot-dock, the video output from the 6200 consists of a blue square, and the laptop still is not hot-undockable. At least the LCD screen is still functional and video can be played without problems.
Conclusion: Although the NVIDIA 6200 makes for a reasonable gaming solution, don't expect to be able to do anything else while attached to the dock.
If any of you have run similar tests using the ATI 9250, I'd love to hear about it.
For those of you curious, here are the 3D Mark scores given:
3D Mark 2001SE
--------------
Overall Score
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: 1553
NVIDIA 6200p: 4875
NVIDIA 6200oc: 4942
Game 1 - Car Chase - Low Detail
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: 24.0 fps
NVIDIA 6200p: 78.0 fps
NVIDIA 6200oc: 80.6 fps
Game 1 - Car Chase - High Detail
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: 15.2 fps
NVIDIA 6200p: 39.4 fps
NVIDIA 6200oc: 39.9 fps
Game 2 - Dragothic - Low Detail
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: 24.7 fps
NVIDIA 6200p: 55.1 fps
NVIDIA 6200oc: 55.4 fps
Game 2 - Dragothic - High Detail
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: 17.8 fps
NVIDIA 6200p: 32.9 fps
NVIDIA 6200oc: 33.0 fps
Game 3 - Lobby - Low Detail
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: 19.6 fps
NVIDIA 6200p: 83.1 fps
NVIDIA 6200oc: 83.8 fps
Game 3 - Lobby - High Detail
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: 10.6 fps
NVIDIA 6200p: 43.7 fps
NVIDIA 6200oc: 44.3 fps
Game 4 - Nature
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: Not supported by hardware
NVIDIA 6200p: 19.7 fps
NVIDIA 6200oc: 20.1 fps
Fill Rate (Single-Texturing)
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: 90.0 MTexels/s
NVIDIA 6200p: 464.6 MTexels/s
NVIDIA 6200oc: 477.5 MTexels/s
Fill Rate (Multi-Texturing)
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: 232.5 MTexels/s
NVIDIA 6200p: 1344.3 MTexels/s
NVIDIA 6200oc: 1348.3 MTexels/s
High Polygon Count (1 Light)
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: 10.2 MTriangles/s
NVIDIA 6200p: 12.3 MTriangles/s
NVIDIA 6200oc: 12.4 MTriangles/s
High Polygon Count (8 Lights)
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: 4.0 MTriangles/s
NVIDIA 6200p: 10.9 MTriangles/s
NVIDIA 6200oc: 11.1 MTriangles/s
Environment Bump Mapping
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: 23.9 fps
NVIDIA 6200p: 45.4 fps
NVIDIA 6200oc: 46.1 fps
DOT3 Bump Mapping
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: 9.8 fps
NVIDIA 6200p: 31.2 fps
NVIDIA 6200oc: 31.5 fps
Vertex Shader
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: 18.2 fps
NVIDIA 6200p: 41.8 fps
NVIDIA 6200oc: 42.4 fps
Pixel Shader
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: Not supported by hardware
NVIDIA 6200p: 43.0 fps
NVIDIA 6200oc: 43.3 fps
Advanced Pixel Shader
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: Not supported by hardware
NVIDIA 6200p: 65.3 fps
NVIDIA 6200oc: 67.3 fps
Point Sprites
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: 2.7 MSprites/s
NVIDIA 6200p: 8.3 MSprites/s
NVIDIA 6200oc: 8.9 MSprites/s
3D Capabilities
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: AGP Texturing, Hardware Transform and Lighting, Positional Lights, Subpixel Accurate Rasterizing, Stencil Buffers, Range Fog, Vertex Fog, Specular Gouraud Shading, Anisotropic Filtering, Bilinear Filtering, Point Sampling, Trilinear Filtering, Additive Texture Blending, Dot3 Texture Blending, Environmental Bump Mapping, Cube Mapping, Factor Alpha Blending, Vertex Alpha Blending, Texture Alpha Blending, Texture Clamping, Texture Mirroring, Texture Wrapping, Guard Band Support, Rendering to a Window, Mipmap LOD Bias Adjustment, Projected Textures, Volume Textures, Point Primitive Support, DXT Compressed Textures
NVIDIA 6200p: Same plus Table Fog, W-Fog, Multiplicative Texture Blending, Subtractive Texture Blending, Environmental Bump Mapping With Luminance, Full-Screen Anti-Aliasing
NVIDIA 6200oc: Same
3D Mark 2003
--------------
(Special Note - The CPU tests typically applied by 3DM 2003 had to be turned off, as they ran extremely slowly when using the 6200 and eventually caused the computer to crash. I assume this was a limitation of the PCI bus.)
Overall Score
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: 62
NVIDIA 6200p: 1696
NVIDIA 6200oc: 1737
GT1 - Wings of Fury
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: 8.5 fps
NVIDIA 6200p: 58.8 fps
NVIDIA 6200oc: 59.5 fps
GT2 - Battle of Proxycon
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: N/A
NVIDIA 6200p: 10.9 fps
NVIDIA 6200oc: 11.3 fps
GT3 - Troll's Lair
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: N/A
NVIDIA 6200p: 10.1 fps
NVIDIA 6200oc: 10.4 fps
GT4 - Mother Nature
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: N/A
NVIDIA 6200p: 10.1 fps
NVIDIA 6200oc: 10.3 fps
Fill Rate (Single-Texturing)
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: 84.0 MTexels/s
NVIDIA 6200p: 396.5 MTexels/s
NVIDIA 6200oc: 410.2 MTexels/s
Fill Rate (Multi-Texturing)
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: 190.2 MTexels/s
NVIDIA 6200p: 1313.5 MTexels/s
NVIDIA 6200oc: 1318.0 MTexels/s
Vertex Shader
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: N/A
NVIDIA 6200p: 10.4 fps
NVIDIA 6200oc: 10.6 fps
Pixel Shader 2.0
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: N/A
NVIDIA 6200p: 32.4 fps
NVIDIA 6200oc: 33.4 fps
Ragtroll
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: N/A
NVIDIA 6200p: 7.1 fps
NVIDIA 6200oc: 7.4 fps
--------------
All tests performed using default settings of 1024x768, 32 bit, 24 bit Z-Buffering, Compressed Texture Format, Double Buffering, No FSAA.
ATI Catalyst 6.5 (6.14.10.6614) via DHmodtool3
NVIDIA Forceware 91.31 (6.14.10.9131)
Windows XP SP2 using DirectX 9.0c (4.09.0000.0904)
Thinkpad X31 2872-A8U w/ 1.6 GHz Pentium-M, 1 GB Memory, 2631 Dock I
So, I went to Fry's and saw that they had both of BFG's cards in open boxes, and decided to buy one of each to test out, and to post the results here. There is the 6200oc with 256MB, and the 6200p with 128MB. Both did work, with some caveats, but there was almost no difference between the two performance or feature-wise. The biggest differences were the price ($150 vs. $100 at Fry's, or about $30 for the 6200p if ordered from Newegg), and the fan. The fan on the cheaper 6200p is much louder, but I figure it's most cost effective to buy it and replace the fan if it annoys you.
As to how well they worked, both performed nicely in pure 3D mode, and I was able to download and run a free trial account of City of Villains. Using the standard graphical settings, framerates were pretty bad (max of 15 fps, 4 fps typical in moderately crowded areas), but if you crank all the settings down to minimal the framerate jumps to a max around 60 fps and about 35 fps in moderately crowded areas.
On the other hand, working in 2D had definite problems. First off, there are small horizontal black lines that appear in graphics (jpgs, gifs, icons, GUI elements). Oddly enough, these lines seemed to occur to a much lesser degree even after reverting to the onboard graphics, though they do seem to have eventually gone away. More problematically, I had heard elsewhere that these cards have problems playing video, and I quickly confirmed this. Any type of video I tried to play, using several versions of players (including VLC), would run the CPU to maximum, cause severely sluggish response, cause the GUI to constantly re-draw window borders, and would completely fail to play the video. Task manager had to be resorted to to shut down the process. In case you think you can get by without video, I caution you that even browsing the internet can be tricky, as I would run into websites with embedded video of one kind or another, that caused the same problems. I even ran into the problem at one point attempting to use AVIcodec to determine the codec used in a particular movie.
Furthermore, I found that the laptop was no longer hot-dockable or undockable. The system needs to be shut down to undock, and although you can hot-dock, the video output from the 6200 consists of a blue square, and the laptop still is not hot-undockable. At least the LCD screen is still functional and video can be played without problems.
Conclusion: Although the NVIDIA 6200 makes for a reasonable gaming solution, don't expect to be able to do anything else while attached to the dock.
If any of you have run similar tests using the ATI 9250, I'd love to hear about it.
For those of you curious, here are the 3D Mark scores given:
3D Mark 2001SE
--------------
Overall Score
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: 1553
NVIDIA 6200p: 4875
NVIDIA 6200oc: 4942
Game 1 - Car Chase - Low Detail
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: 24.0 fps
NVIDIA 6200p: 78.0 fps
NVIDIA 6200oc: 80.6 fps
Game 1 - Car Chase - High Detail
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: 15.2 fps
NVIDIA 6200p: 39.4 fps
NVIDIA 6200oc: 39.9 fps
Game 2 - Dragothic - Low Detail
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: 24.7 fps
NVIDIA 6200p: 55.1 fps
NVIDIA 6200oc: 55.4 fps
Game 2 - Dragothic - High Detail
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: 17.8 fps
NVIDIA 6200p: 32.9 fps
NVIDIA 6200oc: 33.0 fps
Game 3 - Lobby - Low Detail
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: 19.6 fps
NVIDIA 6200p: 83.1 fps
NVIDIA 6200oc: 83.8 fps
Game 3 - Lobby - High Detail
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: 10.6 fps
NVIDIA 6200p: 43.7 fps
NVIDIA 6200oc: 44.3 fps
Game 4 - Nature
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: Not supported by hardware
NVIDIA 6200p: 19.7 fps
NVIDIA 6200oc: 20.1 fps
Fill Rate (Single-Texturing)
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: 90.0 MTexels/s
NVIDIA 6200p: 464.6 MTexels/s
NVIDIA 6200oc: 477.5 MTexels/s
Fill Rate (Multi-Texturing)
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: 232.5 MTexels/s
NVIDIA 6200p: 1344.3 MTexels/s
NVIDIA 6200oc: 1348.3 MTexels/s
High Polygon Count (1 Light)
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: 10.2 MTriangles/s
NVIDIA 6200p: 12.3 MTriangles/s
NVIDIA 6200oc: 12.4 MTriangles/s
High Polygon Count (8 Lights)
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: 4.0 MTriangles/s
NVIDIA 6200p: 10.9 MTriangles/s
NVIDIA 6200oc: 11.1 MTriangles/s
Environment Bump Mapping
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: 23.9 fps
NVIDIA 6200p: 45.4 fps
NVIDIA 6200oc: 46.1 fps
DOT3 Bump Mapping
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: 9.8 fps
NVIDIA 6200p: 31.2 fps
NVIDIA 6200oc: 31.5 fps
Vertex Shader
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: 18.2 fps
NVIDIA 6200p: 41.8 fps
NVIDIA 6200oc: 42.4 fps
Pixel Shader
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: Not supported by hardware
NVIDIA 6200p: 43.0 fps
NVIDIA 6200oc: 43.3 fps
Advanced Pixel Shader
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: Not supported by hardware
NVIDIA 6200p: 65.3 fps
NVIDIA 6200oc: 67.3 fps
Point Sprites
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: 2.7 MSprites/s
NVIDIA 6200p: 8.3 MSprites/s
NVIDIA 6200oc: 8.9 MSprites/s
3D Capabilities
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: AGP Texturing, Hardware Transform and Lighting, Positional Lights, Subpixel Accurate Rasterizing, Stencil Buffers, Range Fog, Vertex Fog, Specular Gouraud Shading, Anisotropic Filtering, Bilinear Filtering, Point Sampling, Trilinear Filtering, Additive Texture Blending, Dot3 Texture Blending, Environmental Bump Mapping, Cube Mapping, Factor Alpha Blending, Vertex Alpha Blending, Texture Alpha Blending, Texture Clamping, Texture Mirroring, Texture Wrapping, Guard Band Support, Rendering to a Window, Mipmap LOD Bias Adjustment, Projected Textures, Volume Textures, Point Primitive Support, DXT Compressed Textures
NVIDIA 6200p: Same plus Table Fog, W-Fog, Multiplicative Texture Blending, Subtractive Texture Blending, Environmental Bump Mapping With Luminance, Full-Screen Anti-Aliasing
NVIDIA 6200oc: Same
3D Mark 2003
--------------
(Special Note - The CPU tests typically applied by 3DM 2003 had to be turned off, as they ran extremely slowly when using the 6200 and eventually caused the computer to crash. I assume this was a limitation of the PCI bus.)
Overall Score
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: 62
NVIDIA 6200p: 1696
NVIDIA 6200oc: 1737
GT1 - Wings of Fury
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: 8.5 fps
NVIDIA 6200p: 58.8 fps
NVIDIA 6200oc: 59.5 fps
GT2 - Battle of Proxycon
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: N/A
NVIDIA 6200p: 10.9 fps
NVIDIA 6200oc: 11.3 fps
GT3 - Troll's Lair
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: N/A
NVIDIA 6200p: 10.1 fps
NVIDIA 6200oc: 10.4 fps
GT4 - Mother Nature
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: N/A
NVIDIA 6200p: 10.1 fps
NVIDIA 6200oc: 10.3 fps
Fill Rate (Single-Texturing)
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: 84.0 MTexels/s
NVIDIA 6200p: 396.5 MTexels/s
NVIDIA 6200oc: 410.2 MTexels/s
Fill Rate (Multi-Texturing)
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: 190.2 MTexels/s
NVIDIA 6200p: 1313.5 MTexels/s
NVIDIA 6200oc: 1318.0 MTexels/s
Vertex Shader
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: N/A
NVIDIA 6200p: 10.4 fps
NVIDIA 6200oc: 10.6 fps
Pixel Shader 2.0
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: N/A
NVIDIA 6200p: 32.4 fps
NVIDIA 6200oc: 33.4 fps
Ragtroll
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: N/A
NVIDIA 6200p: 7.1 fps
NVIDIA 6200oc: 7.4 fps
--------------
All tests performed using default settings of 1024x768, 32 bit, 24 bit Z-Buffering, Compressed Texture Format, Double Buffering, No FSAA.
ATI Catalyst 6.5 (6.14.10.6614) via DHmodtool3
NVIDIA Forceware 91.31 (6.14.10.9131)
Windows XP SP2 using DirectX 9.0c (4.09.0000.0904)
Thinkpad X31 2872-A8U w/ 1.6 GHz Pentium-M, 1 GB Memory, 2631 Dock I
-
superlyduper
- Posts: 31
- Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 12:11 am
did you use a dock I or a dock II ? that`s not so obvious in your review.
if you used a dock I, I`d love to know if the 2 USB ports on the dock I work in USB 2.0 hispeed mode with the X31
if you used a dock I, I`d love to know if the 2 USB ports on the dock I work in USB 2.0 hispeed mode with the X31
IBM T42p 2373-GYG|14,1'' SXGA+|2.1 GHZ|2048MB RAM|160GB SAMSUNG HDD|1000Mbit LAN|Atheros W-Lan II a/b/g|BlueTooth|
- IBM Dock II
- Tucano Second Skin 14,1"
- IBM Dock II
- Tucano Second Skin 14,1"
All IBM docks and port replicators are the same IRT the USB ports, they're simple pass-throughs, akin to a HUB.Gustavo wrote:And yes I think the USB are all high speed USB 2 ports.
If you dock a machine with USB2.0 ports (X31, T40, etc.), that's what the dock ports will be.
If you dock a machine with USB1.1 ports (X23, T21, etc.), that's what the docks ports will be.
Regards,
James
James at thinkpads dot com
5.5K+ posts and all I've got to show for it are some feathers.... AND a Bird wearing a Crown
5.5K+ posts and all I've got to show for it are some feathers.... AND a Bird wearing a Crown
so with a portrep I and an x31 I have USB 2.0 on the portrep USB port ?
about the Dock I: it has a USB hub or not? if that`s only a 1.1 hub, then it CAN NOT have USB 2.0, even with an x31, or ?
about the Dock I: it has a USB hub or not? if that`s only a 1.1 hub, then it CAN NOT have USB 2.0, even with an x31, or ?
IBM T42p 2373-GYG|14,1'' SXGA+|2.1 GHZ|2048MB RAM|160GB SAMSUNG HDD|1000Mbit LAN|Atheros W-Lan II a/b/g|BlueTooth|
- IBM Dock II
- Tucano Second Skin 14,1"
- IBM Dock II
- Tucano Second Skin 14,1"
very cool test.
Could you please test the demo version from www.jointtaskforce.com? Is it playable?
In Germany I could not find a 6200... only a 5200?
Could you please test the demo version from www.jointtaskforce.com? Is it playable?
In Germany I could not find a 6200... only a 5200?
You can get them here in Germany at KM Elektronik:MrIch wrote:very cool test.
Could you please test the demo version from www.jointtaskforce.com? Is it playable?
In Germany I could not find a 6200... only a 5200?
see here: http://www.kmelektronik.de/main_site/ma ... 875&Shop=0
IBM T42p 2373-GYG|14,1'' SXGA+|2.1 GHZ|2048MB RAM|160GB SAMSUNG HDD|1000Mbit LAN|Atheros W-Lan II a/b/g|BlueTooth|
- IBM Dock II
- Tucano Second Skin 14,1"
- IBM Dock II
- Tucano Second Skin 14,1"
´Gustavo wrote:Think he uses Dock I, as I think Dock II doesnt have the PCI slot.
And yes I think the USB are all high speed USB 2 ports.
that`s not true, the dock II also has the PCI slot ofcourse.
I have a Dock II here now and will maybe buy the BFG 6200 oc and try it out with my X31 on the dock II
not sure if and when I will do that, but pretty likely I will
IBM T42p 2373-GYG|14,1'' SXGA+|2.1 GHZ|2048MB RAM|160GB SAMSUNG HDD|1000Mbit LAN|Atheros W-Lan II a/b/g|BlueTooth|
- IBM Dock II
- Tucano Second Skin 14,1"
- IBM Dock II
- Tucano Second Skin 14,1"
Here in ebay are some
IBM Thinkpad Dock 2631
this should be ok or?
---
For more information about the dock, look here
http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/ThinkPad_Dock
US citizen might want to look here, very cheap:
http://www.ubid.com/IBM_Thinkpad_Dock_A ... 16412.html
Germany people could be interestet for the 6200pci card
http://www.alternate.de/html/product/de ... hData=true
IBM Thinkpad Dock 2631
this should be ok or?
---
For more information about the dock, look here
http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/ThinkPad_Dock
US citizen might want to look here, very cheap:
http://www.ubid.com/IBM_Thinkpad_Dock_A ... 16412.html
Germany people could be interestet for the 6200pci card
http://www.alternate.de/html/product/de ... hData=true
the 2631 is the Dock I, it has only 2 USB ports and those only work at USB 1.1! even though some people here said it works at usb 2.0 if a thinkpad with USB 2.0 is used, I tried it myself and it only works at USB 1.1. another forum user here had the same problem, the dock I only supports USB 1.1 with an x31 or x32.
I had a 2631, tried it and then sold it for that reason.
other than the number of the usb ports and the speed, the dock I and dock II are very similar in the features.
I now have a Dock II (which has 4 USB ports, and those are usb 2.0 speed). the only problem is, as gustavo said, that the dock II costs 350 euro new in germany and about 160 euro used in ebay.
I was lucky and got a NEW dock II for 75 euros from a UK seller because it had a "european power plug" which does not fit in the UK. so I was lucky he could not use it and sold it cheap
I had a 2631, tried it and then sold it for that reason.
other than the number of the usb ports and the speed, the dock I and dock II are very similar in the features.
I now have a Dock II (which has 4 USB ports, and those are usb 2.0 speed). the only problem is, as gustavo said, that the dock II costs 350 euro new in germany and about 160 euro used in ebay.
I was lucky and got a NEW dock II for 75 euros from a UK seller because it had a "european power plug" which does not fit in the UK. so I was lucky he could not use it and sold it cheap
IBM T42p 2373-GYG|14,1'' SXGA+|2.1 GHZ|2048MB RAM|160GB SAMSUNG HDD|1000Mbit LAN|Atheros W-Lan II a/b/g|BlueTooth|
- IBM Dock II
- Tucano Second Skin 14,1"
- IBM Dock II
- Tucano Second Skin 14,1"
Yes I can confirm that the Dock I will only support USB 1.1 with my X31, despite the X31 having 2.0
Current: 2 x W520 ET, 3 x X220 i7, T420, X230 i5, T420s, MacbookPro, Dell Venue 11 Pro
Past: IBM5150-8088 500 600E 600X T20 T21 5xT23 X30 3xX31 X32 T40 T42 3xT43 T43p SL510 T60p X60T X60s T61 2xT400 T410si T400s T500-3.06GHz X200 X201 X220i5 X220i7 2xT420s
Past: IBM5150-8088 500 600E 600X T20 T21 5xT23 X30 3xX31 X32 T40 T42 3xT43 T43p SL510 T60p X60T X60s T61 2xT400 T410si T400s T500-3.06GHz X200 X201 X220i5 X220i7 2xT420s
I stumbled on this thread looking for information about installing video cards into the PCI slot of the Dock II (normally I read/post to the T4x section). I've been experimenting with various PCI cards in a Dock II with a T42 and trying to get the combo to work is driving me nuts. (So much so I've been seriously contemplating shelling out significant cash to get a T60p which will dock to the Advanced Dock with PCI Express, solves all the problems). Here's what I've discovered so far that might be relevant.
(1) The ATI 9250 isn't the most powerful ATI PCI card as stated in an earlier post. The most powerful is the X1300, available from Newegg under the Diamond brand. It is Directx 9 capable and is also Vista ready (if that's relevant). I have tried two of these, a Diamond and a CompUSA branded one, both 256MB. I ran into the same problem with both - around 10 or 20 minutes after starting up (sometimes longer), the computer would suddenly freeze (not BSOD), and I'd have to power-cycle. I noticed that running a Windows installer or other low-level process would often freeze the system; once I noticed that right-clicking on a drive icon would do it (a repeatable effect). I gave up on these cards. Perhaps it has something to do with the fact that the Thinkpad Dock II has only a 120W power supply, while most of these cards ask for 250 or 300W on the packaging, I don't know. If anyone has successfully got this card to work, please post.
(2) I have also tried the BFG 6200 OC card - in fact, that's what's installed right now, as I write this. I don't think there are any compatibility issues with using an Nvidia card. However, will all the cards I've tried, I've had to disable the internal graphics chip in the Thinkpad to get the system working. Has anyone got two graphics cards, the internal and an external, working at the same time? If so, please post. I prefer the Nvidia cards because you get a lot more control via the drivers. However, I have run into a different problem with this card. I do get the flecks/streaks in the graphics as mentioned in an earlier post, but I figured out how to get around the problem of not being able to play video. Use older drivers. The forceware drivers up to 84.25 allow video playback without problems. This is a well-known issue (just google around), confirmed by the Tech support people at BFG when I called them about the problems I was having. Incidentally, the BFG guy refused to talk to me further once he discovered I had installed the card in a laptop. Once he got over his initial bafflement and I explained what a Dock II is, he said that they don't support that sort of configuration, only desktop configurations. The call was over at that point. A more serious problem is that I've come up against the infinite loop or nv4_disp BSOD problem (which the Tech guy also recognized as a common problem), which is even more well documented, and seems to afflict all forceware driver versions. After several hours of uptime, Windows suddenly crashes with a BSOD without warning, citing a driver infinite loop problem with nv4_disp.sys. I have tried and tried and have been unable to come up with a solution to this. It affects both Windows 2000 and XP, and has been around since 2001 or even earlier with Nvidia drivers. Sable_X31, have you ever come across this problem? I'd be very interested to know. Perhaps there is something up with my particular Dock II that is making this happen (or more likely to happen). I've also wondered if the power supply is an issue here, as many threads recommend checking that if you have this problem.
(3) I have also tried a passively-cooled Diamond 9250, and found the VGA quality to be quite bad, so I returned it. (I am using analog monitors.) Also, I found both the ATI cards (the 9250 and the X1300) to be unacceptably slow with 2D. Basic window drawing took horribly long. The Nvidia GeForce 6200 on the other hand is very fast in 2D, as fast as the inbuilt card with the inbuilt LCD on two 1920x1200 independent displays. It's a real pity it has that driver issue, or it would be perfect. (The display quality is also excellent on my analog monitors.)
(4) There are two other cards I have yet to try. One is the Nvidia FX5200. I am getting that one tomorrow in the PNY brand (there is also Chaintech). The other is a beefed-up 9250 which apparently supports DirectX 9.
I am losing patience with this - I've spent many many hours trying to get a card that will work, and I don't do any 3D stuff, so you'd think it'd be easy.
(1) The ATI 9250 isn't the most powerful ATI PCI card as stated in an earlier post. The most powerful is the X1300, available from Newegg under the Diamond brand. It is Directx 9 capable and is also Vista ready (if that's relevant). I have tried two of these, a Diamond and a CompUSA branded one, both 256MB. I ran into the same problem with both - around 10 or 20 minutes after starting up (sometimes longer), the computer would suddenly freeze (not BSOD), and I'd have to power-cycle. I noticed that running a Windows installer or other low-level process would often freeze the system; once I noticed that right-clicking on a drive icon would do it (a repeatable effect). I gave up on these cards. Perhaps it has something to do with the fact that the Thinkpad Dock II has only a 120W power supply, while most of these cards ask for 250 or 300W on the packaging, I don't know. If anyone has successfully got this card to work, please post.
(2) I have also tried the BFG 6200 OC card - in fact, that's what's installed right now, as I write this. I don't think there are any compatibility issues with using an Nvidia card. However, will all the cards I've tried, I've had to disable the internal graphics chip in the Thinkpad to get the system working. Has anyone got two graphics cards, the internal and an external, working at the same time? If so, please post. I prefer the Nvidia cards because you get a lot more control via the drivers. However, I have run into a different problem with this card. I do get the flecks/streaks in the graphics as mentioned in an earlier post, but I figured out how to get around the problem of not being able to play video. Use older drivers. The forceware drivers up to 84.25 allow video playback without problems. This is a well-known issue (just google around), confirmed by the Tech support people at BFG when I called them about the problems I was having. Incidentally, the BFG guy refused to talk to me further once he discovered I had installed the card in a laptop. Once he got over his initial bafflement and I explained what a Dock II is, he said that they don't support that sort of configuration, only desktop configurations. The call was over at that point. A more serious problem is that I've come up against the infinite loop or nv4_disp BSOD problem (which the Tech guy also recognized as a common problem), which is even more well documented, and seems to afflict all forceware driver versions. After several hours of uptime, Windows suddenly crashes with a BSOD without warning, citing a driver infinite loop problem with nv4_disp.sys. I have tried and tried and have been unable to come up with a solution to this. It affects both Windows 2000 and XP, and has been around since 2001 or even earlier with Nvidia drivers. Sable_X31, have you ever come across this problem? I'd be very interested to know. Perhaps there is something up with my particular Dock II that is making this happen (or more likely to happen). I've also wondered if the power supply is an issue here, as many threads recommend checking that if you have this problem.
(3) I have also tried a passively-cooled Diamond 9250, and found the VGA quality to be quite bad, so I returned it. (I am using analog monitors.) Also, I found both the ATI cards (the 9250 and the X1300) to be unacceptably slow with 2D. Basic window drawing took horribly long. The Nvidia GeForce 6200 on the other hand is very fast in 2D, as fast as the inbuilt card with the inbuilt LCD on two 1920x1200 independent displays. It's a real pity it has that driver issue, or it would be perfect. (The display quality is also excellent on my analog monitors.)
(4) There are two other cards I have yet to try. One is the Nvidia FX5200. I am getting that one tomorrow in the PNY brand (there is also Chaintech). The other is a beefed-up 9250 which apparently supports DirectX 9.
I am losing patience with this - I've spent many many hours trying to get a card that will work, and I don't do any 3D stuff, so you'd think it'd be easy.
Sorry for digging up an old thread.
I'm also planning to purchase a Dock II to be able to use a PCI vga card with it.
As I was searching on Google, I saw the Thinkwiki-Dock II page. Down below on that page is a list of (apparently) compatible video cards.
The last entry, Visiontek /ATI X1300 is looking like to be a more powerful candidate than of those cards, which you guys have already tested. I must admit that I'm not quite familiar with the performance of the mentioned cards in that list.
Here's the link to the Visiontek card:
http://www.visiontek.com/products/cards ... 56pci.html
I can't really tell from the picture, whether it's a half-size card or not, but I think this is the one on Wiki's list. It's using DDR2, where others are using DDR, which I think that it would make it faster?
The only thing that is discouraging is the recommendation of using a 250W or greater power supply, which is unfortunately not the case with the X31.
I'm planning to use a new Samsung 226BW (22" widescreen) as an external monitor, that's why I'm considering the purchase of the Dock and the card.
Do you think that this card might do the job?
Any comment will be appreciated.
I'm also planning to purchase a Dock II to be able to use a PCI vga card with it.
As I was searching on Google, I saw the Thinkwiki-Dock II page. Down below on that page is a list of (apparently) compatible video cards.
The last entry, Visiontek /ATI X1300 is looking like to be a more powerful candidate than of those cards, which you guys have already tested. I must admit that I'm not quite familiar with the performance of the mentioned cards in that list.
Here's the link to the Visiontek card:
http://www.visiontek.com/products/cards ... 56pci.html
I can't really tell from the picture, whether it's a half-size card or not, but I think this is the one on Wiki's list. It's using DDR2, where others are using DDR, which I think that it would make it faster?
The only thing that is discouraging is the recommendation of using a 250W or greater power supply, which is unfortunately not the case with the X31.
I'm planning to use a new Samsung 226BW (22" widescreen) as an external monitor, that's why I'm considering the purchase of the Dock and the card.
Do you think that this card might do the job?
Any comment will be appreciated.
IBM Thinkpad X31 2884-JGU
P M 1.4Ghz | 2GB RAM | 80GB HDD | 12.1" XGA | X3 Ultrabase | DVD/CD-RW | 802.11 a/b/g WLAN | BT | WinXP Pro SP2
P M 1.4Ghz | 2GB RAM | 80GB HDD | 12.1" XGA | X3 Ultrabase | DVD/CD-RW | 802.11 a/b/g WLAN | BT | WinXP Pro SP2
Actually I believe the most powerful card you can use is the one I am currently using, which is the NVidia GeForce OC by BFG. BestBuy sell it for $157. Compare the specs with the X1300. I am driving two 1920x1200 displays (analog, at 85Hz) without problems from the 6200 (well, one small problem - occasionally there are 'flecks' in certain kinds of graphics output but it is relatively rare and only occurs with certain kinds of output - the BFG guy told me this is a known problem and there's nothing you can do about it). The card is fast, significantly faster (in 2D) than any other card I tested, including the X1300. (When you are driving 2x1900x1200 this matters - with smaller displays it might not so much). Incidentally, I had a problem with BOTH X1300s I tested (different manufacturers, too) - after about 5 or 10 minutes the whole computer would suddenly freeze (not bluescreen, just freeze). Sometimes it was triggered by a certain events (such as a right click on certain kinds of items). Upon removing the card (in both cases) the problem went away. It may be a compatibility problem between the X1300 and the Dock II - I'd be interested to hear if anyone else has seen this, or if anyone has been using the X1300 without problems.Deckard wrote:Sorry for digging up an old thread.
The last entry, Visiontek /ATI X1300 is looking like to be a more powerful candidate than of those cards, which you guys have already tested. I must admit that I'm not quite familiar with the performance of the mentioned cards in that list.
Incidentally, if you do buy the BFG Nvidia GeForce 6200 OC PCI card, be warned that the ONLY driver version that will work successfully with the Dock II is version 84.25 - NOT any newer (or older) drivers.
Oh, and don't worry about the power supply in the Dock II not being strong enough - this is a non-issue.
I found an ati 9200 SE from my old stuff and decided to buy the thinkpad dock I so that I can connect the x31 to my TV using DVI/HDMI. I managed to try update all the drivers of the card, but the dock automatically recognize in XP.
Problem lies to when booting up the pci card, the thinkpad LCD does not work, and only external monitor works. Most of the time, the laptop freeze when trying to boot into windows. I got it to work once,
but wasn't able to test much on the video card performance. The rest of the time booting to winxp freezes. I did try to disable the internal video card as well but still didn't work.
This is kinda frustrating that I gotta stop trying, and the dock seem to be most useful only for the rest of the ports but not sure on the pci. I even try installing sound blaster live 24 bit and still another frustration.
Problem lies to when booting up the pci card, the thinkpad LCD does not work, and only external monitor works. Most of the time, the laptop freeze when trying to boot into windows. I got it to work once,
but wasn't able to test much on the video card performance. The rest of the time booting to winxp freezes. I did try to disable the internal video card as well but still didn't work.
This is kinda frustrating that I gotta stop trying, and the dock seem to be most useful only for the rest of the ports but not sure on the pci. I even try installing sound blaster live 24 bit and still another frustration.
I love thinkpads
IBM X31 2672 PBM, CPU 1.6 GHz, 2 GB Memory, 2631 Dock I
Ati Radeon VE (7000) 64 MB DVI
3D Club Radeon 9250 240/400 128 MB DDR, 64 BIT, DVI
Windows XP SP2, DirectX Version: 9.0
ATI Catalyst 6.11
3D Mark 2001SE
--------------
Overall Score
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: 1412
Radeon VE (7000) with 64 MB RAM: 672
Radeon 9250 with 128 MB RAM: 3105
Game 1 - Car Chase - Low Detail
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: 22.0 fps
Radeon VE (7000) with 64 MB RAM: 8.2 fps
Radeon 9250 with 128 MB RAM: 41.1 fps
Game 1 - Car Chase - High Detail
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: 14.3 fps
Radeon VE (7000) with 64 MB RAM: 4.9 fps
Radeon 9250 with 128 MB RAM: 26.2 fps
Game 2 - Dragothic - Low Detail
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: 21.9 fps
Radeon VE (7000) with 64 MB RAM: 11.6 fps
Radeon 9250 with 128 MB RAM: 38.8 fps
Game 2 - Dragothic - High Detail
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: 16.1 fps
Radeon VE (7000) with 64 MB RAM: 5.3 fps
Radeon 9250 with 128 MB RAM: 23.8 fps
Game 3 - Lobby - Low Detail
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: 17.4 fps
Radeon VE (7000) with 64 MB RAM: 14.3 fps
Radeon 9250 with 128 MB RAM: 52.2 fps
Game 3 - Lobby - High Detail
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: 9.5 fps
Radeon VE (7000) with 64 MB RAM: 6.3 fps
Radeon 9250 with 128 MB RAM: 27.2 fps
Game 4 - Nature
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: Not supported by hardware
Radeon VE (7000) with 64 MB RAM: Not supported by hardware
Radeon 9250 with 128 MB RAM: 12.0 fps
Fill Rate (Single-Texturing)
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: 85.4 MTexels/s
Radeon VE (7000) with 64 MB RAM: 109.7 MTexels/s
Radeon 9250 with 128 MB RAM: 284.2 MTexels/s
Fill Rate (Multi-Texturing)
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: 218.5 MTexels/s
Radeon VE (7000) with 64 MB RAM: 291.5 MTexels/s
Radeon 9250 with 128 MB RAM: 932.9 MTexels/s
High Polygon Count (1 Light)
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: 9.9 MTriangles/s
Radeon VE (7000) with 64 MB RAM: 0.6 MTriangles/s
Radeon 9250 with 128 MB RAM: 10.1 MTriangles/s
High Polygon Count (8 Lights)
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: 4.1 MTriangles/s
Radeon VE (7000) with 64 MB RAM: 0.5 MTriangles/s
Radeon 9250 with 128 MB RAM: 4.4 MTriangles/s
Environment Bump Mapping
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: 22.3 fps
Radeon VE (7000) with 64 MB RAM: 16.1 fps
Radeon 9250 with 128 MB RAM: 27.8 fps
DOT3 Bump Mapping
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: 9.0 fps
Radeon VE (7000) with 64 MB RAM: 8.8 fps
Radeon 9250 with 128 MB RAM: 22.6 fps
Vertex Shader
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: 16.8 fps
Radeon VE (7000) with 64 MB RAM: 4.3 fps
Radeon 9250 with 128 MB RAM: 37.1 fps
Pixel Shader
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: Not supported by hardware
Radeon VE (7000) with 64 MB RAM: Not supported by hardware
Radeon 9250 with 128 MB RAM: 27.2 fps
Advanced Pixel Shader
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: Not supported by hardware
Radeon VE (7000) with 64 MB RAM: Not supported by hardware
Radeon 9250 with 128 MB RAM: 44.0 fps
Point Sprites
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: 2.7 MSprites/s
Radeon VE (7000) with 64 MB RAM: 0.2 MSprites/s
Radeon 9250 with 128 MB RAM: 10.0 MSprites/s
Ati Radeon VE (7000) 64 MB DVI
3D Club Radeon 9250 240/400 128 MB DDR, 64 BIT, DVI
Windows XP SP2, DirectX Version: 9.0
ATI Catalyst 6.11
3D Mark 2001SE
--------------
Overall Score
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: 1412
Radeon VE (7000) with 64 MB RAM: 672
Radeon 9250 with 128 MB RAM: 3105
Game 1 - Car Chase - Low Detail
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: 22.0 fps
Radeon VE (7000) with 64 MB RAM: 8.2 fps
Radeon 9250 with 128 MB RAM: 41.1 fps
Game 1 - Car Chase - High Detail
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: 14.3 fps
Radeon VE (7000) with 64 MB RAM: 4.9 fps
Radeon 9250 with 128 MB RAM: 26.2 fps
Game 2 - Dragothic - Low Detail
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: 21.9 fps
Radeon VE (7000) with 64 MB RAM: 11.6 fps
Radeon 9250 with 128 MB RAM: 38.8 fps
Game 2 - Dragothic - High Detail
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: 16.1 fps
Radeon VE (7000) with 64 MB RAM: 5.3 fps
Radeon 9250 with 128 MB RAM: 23.8 fps
Game 3 - Lobby - Low Detail
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: 17.4 fps
Radeon VE (7000) with 64 MB RAM: 14.3 fps
Radeon 9250 with 128 MB RAM: 52.2 fps
Game 3 - Lobby - High Detail
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: 9.5 fps
Radeon VE (7000) with 64 MB RAM: 6.3 fps
Radeon 9250 with 128 MB RAM: 27.2 fps
Game 4 - Nature
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: Not supported by hardware
Radeon VE (7000) with 64 MB RAM: Not supported by hardware
Radeon 9250 with 128 MB RAM: 12.0 fps
Fill Rate (Single-Texturing)
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: 85.4 MTexels/s
Radeon VE (7000) with 64 MB RAM: 109.7 MTexels/s
Radeon 9250 with 128 MB RAM: 284.2 MTexels/s
Fill Rate (Multi-Texturing)
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: 218.5 MTexels/s
Radeon VE (7000) with 64 MB RAM: 291.5 MTexels/s
Radeon 9250 with 128 MB RAM: 932.9 MTexels/s
High Polygon Count (1 Light)
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: 9.9 MTriangles/s
Radeon VE (7000) with 64 MB RAM: 0.6 MTriangles/s
Radeon 9250 with 128 MB RAM: 10.1 MTriangles/s
High Polygon Count (8 Lights)
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: 4.1 MTriangles/s
Radeon VE (7000) with 64 MB RAM: 0.5 MTriangles/s
Radeon 9250 with 128 MB RAM: 4.4 MTriangles/s
Environment Bump Mapping
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: 22.3 fps
Radeon VE (7000) with 64 MB RAM: 16.1 fps
Radeon 9250 with 128 MB RAM: 27.8 fps
DOT3 Bump Mapping
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: 9.0 fps
Radeon VE (7000) with 64 MB RAM: 8.8 fps
Radeon 9250 with 128 MB RAM: 22.6 fps
Vertex Shader
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: 16.8 fps
Radeon VE (7000) with 64 MB RAM: 4.3 fps
Radeon 9250 with 128 MB RAM: 37.1 fps
Pixel Shader
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: Not supported by hardware
Radeon VE (7000) with 64 MB RAM: Not supported by hardware
Radeon 9250 with 128 MB RAM: 27.2 fps
Advanced Pixel Shader
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: Not supported by hardware
Radeon VE (7000) with 64 MB RAM: Not supported by hardware
Radeon 9250 with 128 MB RAM: 44.0 fps
Point Sprites
Built-in ATI Mobility Radeon: 2.7 MSprites/s
Radeon VE (7000) with 64 MB RAM: 0.2 MSprites/s
Radeon 9250 with 128 MB RAM: 10.0 MSprites/s
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