Should I get the 14" or 15" for Dev work

Message

boardmonger · #1 Post by **boardmonger** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 6:18 pm

I didn't think I would ever post to the forum with a question dealing with "which computer should I buy"

but after long thoughts (and maybe too much reading about problems with the 14" on the forums.)
I would love to hear some other opinions.

I have listed the prices I can get these units with a discount and added some cost to the FVU because
I want a 3 year warranty, extra ram and BT. I originally leaning towards the 14" FVU
because of battery life, weight, and price, but I worry that I might rather have the
15" for the flexview / larger screen, build quality, and faster HD at what seems to be a great price.

Please let me know what you guys think.

Requirements:
I am going to carry this laptop everyday, so weight is an issue
It is going to replace my desktop,
Battery Life: I need at least 3 hours
It must have SXGA+ on it for my software development.
Fast Hard Drive: again for dev work.
Bluetooth or at least the BT antenna and I will add the card myself.
Mild Gaming: Most likely using an external monitor
Mild DVD watching
Built quality: because I am taking this home daily it needs to be strong
Great Wireless compatibility

Systems:
------------------------------
2378-FVU
updated specs: P M 735, 768 MB RAM (Upgraded), 40GB 5400rpm HDD, 14.1 SXGA+(1400x1050) TFT LCD,
64MB ATI Radeon 9600, CDRW/DVD, Intel 802.11b/g wireless(MPCI), Bluetooth/Modem (upgraded), and
3 year warranty (upgraded)

approximate upgraded price with an added extra 512MB memory,
added BT, and Warranty would be around: $2000

------------------------------
2373-3UU Pentium M 735, 512 MB RAM, 40GB 5400rpm HDD, 14.1 SXGA+(1400x1050) TFT LCD,
64MB ATI Radeon 9600, CDRW/DVD, IBM 802.11 a/b/g wireless , Bluetooth/Modem, and 3 year warranty

Base price: $2192 (All built in/included in stock, so I don't have to worry about damaging the unit myself)

------------------------------
2379-DXU
Pentium M 735 1.7, 512MB, 15.0” SXGA+ 9600, 60gig 7200rpm ,
Combo Intel 11b/g Wi-Fi, Mod/Blue, and 3 yr warranty.

Base price: $2159 (All built in/included in stock, so I don't have to worry about damaging the unit myself)

http://www-132.ibm.com/webapp/wcs/store ... logId=-840

sktn77a · #2 Post by **sktn77a** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 6:26 pm

You have conflicting requirements - carrying it every day you are going want something light. If you have good eyesight and are young, I'd get the 14" (get a 9600 or better chipset, though, nothing less). If, like me, your eyes are going out, get the 15" and some weights!

boardmonger · #3 Post by **boardmonger** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 7:00 pm

I know it is kind of a conflict with saying I want something light and a large screen, that is part of my conflict.

I just wanted to let you know that I am going to carry it every day, so weight is an issue in my choice. If I wasn't going to lug it around all the time I would not worry as much about the extra weight.

Flightvector · #4 Post by **Flightvector** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 7:02 pm

I have good eyesight, but even with my 15" I find myself gravitating away from using the same exact text sizes (about 8pt) in my browsers with the same margin of comfortable readability (It is at the lower bound at 8pt, when that is actually quite big for my 17"). A 14" SXGA+ may offer an equivalent amount of screen real estate, but what good is that for a developer if you can't practically split the screen for editing two documents simultaneously at 75% page size. It just feels like there is a smaller margin of use between readability and real estate deployment.

Totability is a big consideration too, but I truly could not give an opinion here, since in my experience, people fluctuate largely in taste here. I cn easily justify my 15" while on the other hand, most 14" owners could easily banish the Flexview.

The 7200rpm drive, I think, is a very big factor, I would never get anything slower than this since the HDD is always a major bottleneck. It is not anymore audible than the 5400rpm and in any case the fans are always louder. A big requirement for desktop-like file capability.

The 15" is also stronger; the base is the same width, but the LCD has a very sturdy casing, I have no perceptible warping and opening/closing has no visible effect on the LCD (some 14s have slight distortion while doing this). The palmrest is one big piece that frames the keyboard, reducing flex.

I have tested 4:05 h:mm with "super power saver" during constant wireless internet browsing use (no large downloads were done however). Power drain hovered between 11 to 13 watts.

In conclusion, I found that the size did make a difference, I can't deny that. It was definitely not as big as I had feared, but it did make me wonder just a bit

for a day or two. But having seen others and having used it, it now has none of the feared significance to its portability (Its weight vs. the 14" doesn't occur to me automatically). I would still have gone with the Flexview, and the image quality is something I could never sacrifice. So you need to think about it and sort it out because it is a significant issue.

System:
T42 2378-DXU (Essentially a 2379-DXU with the 1 year warranty)
Paid $2186 after employee rebate, $2340 list as of 6/3/04

rhema83 · #5 Post by **rhema83** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 7:16 pm

I think the FVU fits your bill better. You get more for less!

You can actually ask IBM to fit in the BT CDC before it is delivered. Just order through a sales rep instead of through the website.

The RAM is easily upgraded and you get a higher total amount than the other 2 choices for less money. IBM charges you over 150% of what you pay when you order RAM from Crucial. So it's definitely better to upgrade later.

You can always upgrade your HDD to a 7200rpm (or even 10000rpm when it becomes available) and keep the 5400rpm one as an external backup drive (with an inexpensive USB2.0 HDD casing). As I've mentioned before, upgrading it at IBM doesn't make sense since they over-charge you.

boardmonger · #6 Post by **boardmonger** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 8:07 pm

rhema83 wrote:IThe RAM is easily upgraded and you get a higher total amount than the other 2 choices for less money. IBM charges you over 150% of what you pay when you order RAM from Crucial. So it's definitely better to upgrade later.

I guess I should have said my calculated price included extra memory from Crucial

Wilco · #7 Post by **Wilco** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 9:17 pm

My 2 cents:

I just started working with the 2378-DXU and love the 15" screen. I'm coming from an XGA T21 and the screen difference is more than I expected. However, text is already a little small and I can't imagine working with a 14" at 1400x1050 unless you're running linux where everything scales well. Hasn't really felt any different carrying this thing around, but I don't travel much.

rhema83 · #8 Post by **rhema83** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 11:34 pm

boardmonger wrote: I guess I should have said my calculated price included extra memory from Crucial

Great choice! Crucial is THE place to get RAM.

What I am saying is, don't bother paying more for a base model with a larger stock HDD or more stock RAM. They are all so cheap to upgrade. Just concentrate on non-upgradables, especially CPU and GPU. Therefore, the FVU fits your bill. Just my 2 cents though.

By the way I have the FVU and I love it. I am getting another 512MB RAM from Crucial soon. When I save up enough, I will get a bigger and faster HDD (60GB 7200rpm or better if they becomes available). The 735 CPU and Radeon 9600 graphics are really good.

One more thought is, if you want to spend the money on a DVD burner, you might as well use it to buy an external HDD or a hard disk casing for your 5400rpm HDD while you get a 7200rpm one.

boardmonger · #9 Post by **boardmonger** » Wed Aug 11, 2004 12:58 am

rhema83 wrote: One more thought is, if you want to spend the money on a DVD burner, you might as well use it to buy an external HDD or a hard disk casing for your 5400rpm HDD while you get a 7200rpm one.

No No just going to find a 5.25" usb 2.0 case for my DVD-Burner in my desktop.

esquire · #10 Post by **esquire** » Wed Aug 11, 2004 5:23 am

Go for the 15inch. Unless you are a wimp you won't notice the extra weight.

I have a dxu, the screen is super sharp, colour is awsome, contrast is awsome, dvds play fine. Some 3d games *may* blur a little....but you aren't spending 2000+ for a computer just to play games right?

IMO once you become used to the extra screen realestate, you would find it really hard to back to a smaller/lower res screen.

Hangfire · #11 Post by **Hangfire** » Wed Aug 11, 2004 7:42 am

Go for the Flexview and start working out;-)

rhema83 · #12 Post by **rhema83** » Wed Aug 11, 2004 8:21 am

The screen size / weight issue is a very personal one. For me, I travel quite a bit and want to be able to use my laptop while sitting in economy class. That's why I went for the lighter and smaller 14.1". (No, I am no wimp. I'm with the army.

) I find the screen adequate. If you need the bigger screen and are willing to sacrifice some mobility, by all means get the 15". I've heard great reviews on the FlexView.

boardmonger · #13 Post by **boardmonger** » Wed Aug 11, 2004 11:14 am

Have any of you guys used the 15" on an airplane or small lecture style desk at school or conferences?

I remember reading about a user saying he could use the 15" fine in the economy class on an airplane,
but I haven't heard much about anyone else having problems with the 15" in areas with little desk space.

Budge · #14 Post by **Budge** » Wed Aug 11, 2004 11:31 am

Boardmonger,

I too am leaning towards the 2379DXU, but IBM say the best price they could offer me was $2279. Where did you get your pricing?

Thanks,
Budge

boardmonger · #15 Post by **boardmonger** » Wed Aug 11, 2004 12:02 pm

EPP site (Employee Purchase Program for friends and family) I have a friend that works at IBM

hnq · #16 Post by **hnq** » Wed Aug 11, 2004 12:06 pm

I'm doing the same thing (programming) but portability is the key issue for me (I do a lot of traveling), so I'll be going with an X series. I've read that in airplanes, if the person in front has their seat reclined, the space is a bit small for even the 14". I've also read that you get used to having less screen real estate. Good luck making your decision.

boardmonger · #17 Post by **boardmonger** » Wed Aug 11, 2004 12:26 pm

My Friend has the X31 and I like it alot, but I want something that has TV out, a CD drive,
and will run DX9 for native Long horn support

I don't expect to fly too much and to be honest I don't ever really seem to get any good work done on the plane.
(Most flights I take are 3 -5 hours)

boardmonger · #18 Post by **boardmonger** » Thu Aug 12, 2004 11:51 am

I have to say I am kind of shocked to see so many people recomend the 15" over the 14" thinkpad.
It seems to me that at least 60-70% of the users on this forum have the 14" and I thought more
people would be pulling for it because everyone seems to be 14" fanboys here. Is it partly because the 15"
is more money normally and with my discount it is not that much extra? Or maybe it is the build quality and flexview screen, but according to this poll 66% of the people liked their 14" http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... viewresult

I think I am going to go with the 15" thinkpad, but if you guys want to try to talk me out of it now is your chance.
I won't have the money for another week before I can order.

Leon · #19 Post by **Leon** » Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:12 pm

the majority (including me) got the 14" because of the portability... all IBM TXX Thinkpads are good, so after we get them, we (including me) are very happy with our excellent machines... whichever you get, you will be happy (like going to a fine restaurant and choosing among your favorite dishes), ... your only decision to make is portability... to some the difference is great, to others it's minor... it's all personal perception... there is more that enough data, opinion, pictures, and measurements on this site to give you the data you need... the only way to be "sure", would be to order both and return one... if you can't/don't want to do that, then build/cut out "mock-up" models using the measurements, and then compare.... don't want to go through all that trouble?... then read everything on the subject on this forum and go with your gut.... again, you are choosing amongst high grades of Russian caviar... whichever you choose, you will be happy... you can't go wrong....

boardmonger · #20 Post by **boardmonger** » Thu Aug 12, 2004 2:22 pm

I am not worried about being un happy or making a bad choice I was just suprised so many people voted for the 15" when many of them own the 14" thinkpad. I guess I just figured people would vote for what they liked and wanted, but I think that wasn't the case and I am just wondering why.

I was just trying to get into their heads

Leon · #21 Post by **Leon** » Thu Aug 12, 2004 2:38 pm

my guess is that the 15" as a smaller percentage are more vocal.... minorities often are.....

Should I get the 14" or 15" for Dev work

Should I buy the 15" or 14"

Should I get the 14" or 15" for Dev work

To little room?

3/4 People like 15"

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