Floyd founder Syd Barrett, dead at 60

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dsigma6 · #1 Post by **dsigma6** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 9:57 am

I'm actually visually upset by this. I've been a fan for years and have a real emotional connection with the group. While Syd was off the wall, his ideas shaped one of the most influential psychedelic rock groups ever.

Absent from public view for decades, he will be missed regardless.

dsvochak · #2 Post by **dsvochak** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 10:11 am

And if the dam breaks open many years too soon
And if there is no room upon the hill
And if your head explodes with dark forebodings too
I'll see you on the dark side of the moon.

dsigma6 · #3 Post by **dsigma6** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 10:13 am

if only he was around for that..

they never would have made that album.

dsvochak · #4 Post by **dsvochak** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 10:24 am

they never would have made that album.

That may be, but the whole album's about Syd

dsigma6 · #5 Post by **dsigma6** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 10:39 am

im a pink floyd junkie- i need no schooling.

not that anyone here would notice, but my screen name is pink floyd related. a previous name of the band, minus the "d"

i mean to say that if he was around, obviously they wouldnt make anything about him- but their style wouldnt have been able to evolve with syd around.

JHEM · #6 Post by **JHEM** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 11:10 am

While Syd's seminal work with the band in it's early years can't be overlooked, he had little to nothing to do with the band's eventual fame.

It was well after his replacement by Gilmour in January 1968 that the band went on to release their critically and popularly acclaimed concept albums:

1973: Dark Side of the Moon
1975: Wish You Were Here
1977: Animals
1979: The Wall

And it's "Shine On You Crazy Diamond" from Wish You Were Here that was written and recorded about Syd by the band, not Dark side of the Moon!

Regards,

James

dsigma6 · #7 Post by **dsigma6** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 11:33 am

i didnt want to start correcting people on a forum, people tend to always think theyre right.

meddle was the beginning of what pink floyd became (and happens to be my favorite album).

dsvochak · #8 Post by **dsvochak** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 11:44 am

I'll defer to the experts

JHEM · #9 Post by **JHEM** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 1:10 pm

dsigma6 wrote:meddle was the beginning of what pink floyd became (and happens to be my favorite album).

One of my favorite Floyd albums as well.

The primary reason that the band didn't make it during their psychedelic period under Syd was because they stunk!

None of their offerings were on a par with, for example, the Electric Prunes' "Mass In F Minor" or "Release of An Oath", both from 1968, or the Ted Nugent led Amboy Dukes album "Journey to the Center of the Mind", also from 1968.

Or even "Live At the Cafe Au Go-Go", recorded live around the corner from my apartment on Sullivan St. by my Greenwich Village buds and neighbors, Danny Kalb, Steve Katz and Al Kooper after they formed the Blues Project.

Regards,

James the Ancient

dsigma6 · #10 Post by **dsigma6** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 2:06 pm

JHEM wrote:Regards,

James the Ancient

theres just that mysterious aspect to syd- when i was a teenager i wanted to be him. i eventually figured out that that wouldnt be a good thing. ever see "syd's first trip"? its so sad.

dsvochak · #11 Post by **dsvochak** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 2:11 pm

Turn on the way-back machine. The Blues Project "Live At the Cafe Au Go-Go". One of the all time great forgotten bands and records.

JHEM · #12 Post by **JHEM** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 8:06 pm

dsigma6 wrote:theres just that mysterious aspect to syd- when i was a teenager i wanted to be him. i eventually figured out that that wouldnt be a good thing. ever see "syd's first trip"? its so sad.

The protagonist in The Wall video is patterned on Syd, especially the scene where he shaves all his body hair off, along with his nipples.

Syd was renowned for shaving his head bald, along with his eyebrows, as well as all his body hair!

Regards,

James

JHEM · #13 Post by **JHEM** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 8:08 pm

dsvochak wrote:Turn on the way-back machine. The Blues Project "Live At the Cafe Au Go-Go". One of the all time great forgotten bands and records.

You should come over and go through my LP collection!

Mr. Peabody and I will keep the Wayback Machine warmed up.

James

#14 Post by **JaneL** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 8:32 pm

JHEM wrote:None of their offerings were on a par with, for example, the Electric Prunes' "Mass In F Minor"

You know, I think I still have that around somewhere. Wonder if my turntable still works...

JHEM · #15 Post by **JHEM** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 8:50 pm

nonny wrote:You know, I think I still have that around somewhere.

Somebody's age is showing!!!

nonny wrote:Wonder if my turntable still works...

If your's doesn't I volunteer my Perpetuum Ebner direct DC brushless drive model with a Rabco SL8E straight line tracking tonearm and Ortofon cartridge!

If you ever get a chance to burn that to CD and could send it to me, I would be ever so grateful. My copy went missing years ago.

Regards,

James

#16 Post by **JaneL** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 8:59 pm

JHEM wrote:Somebody's age is showing!!!

If you ever get a chance to burn that to CD and could send it to me, I would be ever so grateful. My copy went missing years ago.

Yeah, well, I got older over the weekend...

If I ever get home again with enough brain cells to remember what I'm supposed to do when I get there, I'll see if I can dig it out of my cabinet. I know that we played it nearly every night in the dorm for several years - no idea what kind of shape it's in now.

#17 Post by **schen** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 6:08 am

If you don't already know this; you can play a record wet (actually more like damp/ not dripping) to surpress the noise. For records in bad shape, it a bandaid. I wouldn't do it regularly, but it'd be worth a try if you are trying to archive to CD or something like that.

440roadrunner · #18 Post by **440roadrunner** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 8:50 am

I occasionally get my ears assaulted by this rap crap, and, while about breaking my thumb while trying to get the thing turned off, I do wish for melodic verse of earlier times. Pink Floyd is definately on that list. Works like theirs simply cannot be improved upon.

dsvochak · #19 Post by **dsvochak** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:24 am

I occasionally get my ears assaulted by this rap crap..

John Lennon once said something like "Everyone always thinks the music they grew up on is the best". Maybe we should cut the kids some slack.

The last 12" vinyl record I bought was "Rapper's Delight". Looking back, the first 'rap' record I heard was "Subterranean Homesick Blues".

In every era there will be musical genius and musical crap. And often the crap will outsell the genius by a large margin. The best rap, like much of the best popular music, is grounded in anger and comes from angry people.

Artists like N.W.A., Public Enemy, Tupac, Dr. Dre, and Eminem (Slim Shady LP) are just recent successors in a line that runs through Woody Guthrie and folk protest songs, some of blues, Bob Dylan, The MC5, Peter Tosh, The Clash and Nirvana (to name only a few).

It may not have a good beat and maybe you can't dance to it. And maybe you can't understand all the lyrics. And maybe you don't agree with the political/social views expressed. But that's what my parents said about everything I listened to that was different from what they grew up with.

It didn't, and doesn't, make what I like better than everything else. Just different. And different, by itself, does not necessarily equal "crap"

christopher_wolf · #20 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 3:37 pm

Gahhhhguuu-wababab...Whu, whu, WHAT?!

Eminenema is our generation's equal of Dylan, Cohen, or Guthrie? If so, this generation has a ton of problems. I cannot see, down the line, youngsters of the future consider a good portion of it as "classics." No, it won't be like the Talking Heads a decade later, it won't be like 80's music is now. Run DMC and the old skool hip-hop groups were probably the best to listen to and had the most quality; it all went pretty much downhill expeditiously from there.

I see nothing of "Protest" value in most rap songs today, and I am fairly generous when it comes to calling stuff a "Protest" statement. I mainly hear most angry people go off on some tangent and interlace as much bravado in rap as they can whilst directing it towards nothing in particular. Now, maybe this is wrong, but I thought protest songs were supposed to have a point; not become a aural mapping of pure anti-social anger. I draw the line at what is music if it just seems too introspective of what it is trying to do and trying to justify loud obnoxious noises being channeled through an ear canal as "art." If I wanted to hear whining non-stop from DuDeSpAZioxxx, I would go and listen to most blogs today, and the flamecomments that come with them, with text-to-speech software.

JHEM · #21 Post by **JHEM** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 4:48 pm

dsvochak wrote:Artists like N.W.A., Public Enemy, Tupac, Dr. Dre, and Eminem (Slim Shady LP) are just recent successors in a line that runs through Woody Guthrie and folk protest songs, some of blues, Bob Dylan, The MC5, Peter Tosh, The Clash and Nirvana (to name only a few).

I just got off the phone with Arlo, he wants you come over and help him stop his father's spinning in his grave!

I realize I have a senior moment from time to time, but for the life of me I can't recall anyone from the protest era (and I knew and know many of them!) ever singing about "beyotches, hos and niggas"! Nor did they attempt to glamorize thugs and hoods by extolling the virtues of killing cops, selling dope, beating "hos", buying bling and expensive cars, and gunning down anyone who would dare to "diss" you. Nor did any of them call for the killing of another musician simply because he was from the "wrong" coast or neighborhood.

E.g., I've known Pete Seeger for more than 35 years and I've never known him to consider it necessary to surround himself with toadys, sycophants and a "posse" in order to prove his fame.

"Artists"?? I think you're being far too generous with the title.

There's a handful of rappers who actually have something to say worth listening to, the remainder are about as rewarding as listening to Howard Stern.

Regards,

James

dsvochak · #22 Post by **dsvochak** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 4:52 pm

Gahhhhguuu-wababab...Whu, whu, WHAT?!

Nice rant. Unfortunately, almost every sentence indicates I must have done a poor job of stating my point.

As an example, I don't believe I said "Eminem is our generations equal of Dylan, Cohen, or Guthrie". I did say "The best rap, like much of the best popular music, is grounded in anger and comes from angry people." and went on to give some examples of musicians, who over time, were angry about one thing or another.

I could point out other places where the response indicates I did a poor job in my posting. But that's neither here nor there. This, however is interesting:

I draw the line at what is music if it just seems too introspective of what it is trying to do and trying to justify loud obnoxious noises being channeled through an ear canal as "art."

It's something that might have been said about music by people like John Cage, Charlie Parker, Miles Davis and Captain Beefheart. I know I heard the like about Bob Dylan. So I feel compelled to repeat myself.

John Lennon once said something like "Everyone always thinks the music they grew up on is the best". Maybe we should cut the kids some slack.

christopher_wolf · #23 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 6:47 pm

Repeating something Lenon said before did no good. I can't see how it would do any good now.

How is utter shock considered a rant?

I am not cutting these "kids" some slack. But you don't deny you compared Dylan and Eminem, do you? Just because somebody is angry at something doesn't mean they are talented at making music; eminem is a good example of this. This is like the old joke about the scientist cutting off the cockroaches legs, yelling at it to move, and then concluding that cutting its legs off made it deaf.

How could any of that be said about Cage, Parker, or Davis? They had effective ways of making music, people listened, and, correctly, surmised that they had talent. This is giving too much "slack" to the worst of rap for no good reason.

So if I setup a mic, record myself yelling about things, acting really angry, and cursing with a backbeat of average quality synths, then made a half-hearted attempt to make every other word rhyme. That is music? That is the reasons auditions exist, to weed such things out.

There is no way something like that can be compared to a Pink Floyd song or even a Miles Davis song. Saying that they did it because they were "angry" and good music that other people made, people who happened to be angry, makes them come from the same place? Nope, try again.

dsvochak · #24 Post by **dsvochak** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 7:29 pm

But you don't deny you compared Dylan and Eminem, do you?

Yes I deny that. And if you took the time to actually read and think about what I wrote you will see that I made no such comparison. Or any of the other positions you seem to have found in my post.

Other than that, you win. You're completely right, I'm completely wrong.

Edit: My apologies to Syd Barrett, his family and fans and anyone who has read this far for posting a comment which took this thread way off topic

christopher_wolf · #25 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 7:45 pm

You deny this? (Then again, I don't think you read my posts or what James wrote; so I will condense the jist so it is easier for some to grasp.)

Artists like N.W.A., Public Enemy, Tupac, Dr. Dre, and Eminem (Slim Shady LP) are just recent successors in a line that runs through Woody Guthrie and folk protest songs, some of blues, Bob Dylan, The MC5, Peter Tosh, The Clash and Nirvana (to name only a few).

Yeah, surree they are buddy....sure they are; no, I totally agree that glamorizing the "thug life" and drive-by shootings are great. I can just see a car of Dylan's homies doing a drive-by on the hoods from Guthrie's territory.

Really......Having a shortage of talented muscians and simply lowering everybody's standards by giving creedence to such things doesn't make it good; not even by a long shot.

JHEM · #26 Post by **JHEM** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 8:45 pm

christopher_wolf wrote:You deny this? (Then again, I don't think you read my posts or what James wrote; so I will condense the jist so it is easier for some to grasp.)

Artists like N.W.A., Public Enemy, Tupac, Dr. Dre, and Eminem (Slim Shady LP) are just recent successors in a line that runs through Woody Guthrie and folk protest songs, some of blues, Bob Dylan, The MC5, Peter Tosh, The Clash and Nirvana (to name only a few).

To be fair he doesn't really compare them so much as say that the thread for their music follows a straight line back through earlier "protest" music, regardless of what was actually being protested.

But to me there is a discontinuity between songs addressing true social injustice and somebody kvetching because the "ho won't give me my money!".

Regards,

James

dsvochak · #27 Post by **dsvochak** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:04 pm

Some of us apparently agree on some things, two being:

There's a handful of rappers who actually have something to say worth listening to, the remainder are about as rewarding as listening to Howard Stern.
-----------------------------
...there is a discontinuity between songs addressing true social injustice and somebody kvetching because the "ho won't give me my money!".

We may disagree about, for example, which "...rappers actually have something to say worth listening to". But the simple fact that my list may be different than someone else's list, does not make that other person's list "crap" or my list "talented".

There are certain genres of music I don't particulary like. Opera comes to mind rather quickly. (I'm not much of a fan of musicals either, perhaps for the similar reasons--let's stop the story and sing a song). I don't think that makes me a bad person, and it certainly doesn't mean that operas are "crap".

Whether one likes Eminem, as an example, may have nothing to do with whether he's "talented".

If you don't like rap, fine. There are people who do. And, as best I can recall, in the USA today they're entitled to that position. And entitled to listen to what they want, regardless of "talent".

And I, for one, wouldn't want the right to tell someone "you can't listen to that because it's no-talent crap" and then the right to force them to listen to something else.

You may disagree, but hey, in the USA today, you're entitled to that position.

(I hope that helps Woody stop spinning. If not let me know.)

#28 Post by **GomJabbar** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 11:39 pm

I for one think that Eminem is quite talented. While some of his lyrics are too vulgar IMO, other music of his I think is rather well done. I enjoyed watching and listening to his movie: "8 Mile". In the same way, I think Alice Cooper is quite talented. Likewise, I don't like all of his lyrics either. Prince is another very talented artist, although I don't listen to a lot of his music.

I am a fan of many types of music. Pink Floyd is great. The Who, Led Zeppelin, Santana, Dave Brubeck, Miles Davis, Dido, Peggy Lee,The Moody Blues, Simon and Garfunkel, Spirit, Captain Fantastic, War, Emerson Lake and Palmer, Asleep at the Wheel, Jethro Tull, The Beatles, Blue Haiku, Elvis Crespo, Paulina Rubio, Thalia, Juanes, Country Joe & the Fish, Caravan, Bebel Gilberto, Flora Purim, Alex Cortiz, De-Phazz, Brian Auger, Brazilian Girls, Traffic, The Zombies, yada, yada, yada........

Like dsvochak, I am not a big fan of opera. I don't listen to a lot of country music either, but I do like some of it.

What I really don't like is vulgar lyrics, lyrics promoting physical violence, screaming (what I term head-banger music), and satanic music. Much of this type of music has been around a long time in various incarnations. I didn't like it then (when I was a teen), and I don't like it now. Granted, I was probably more tolerant when I was younger. But that does not mean that I would ever choose to listen to it.

Back to the topic at hand; Pink Floyd is an exceptionally talented, original group, with a totally unique sound. My hats off to them. Sorry for their (and our) loss.

christopher_wolf · #29 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 12:26 am

Also, in the USA, we have the right to inform another person that their opinion is wrong; goes with being able to disagree too.

JHEM · #30 Post by **JHEM** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 6:58 am

GomJabbar wrote:Like dsvochak, I am not a big fan of opera. I don't listen to a lot of country music either, but I do like some of it.

What is it with you guys and Opera? You don't know what you're missing, and much of it was as incendiary when it was written as anything being published today. Mozart's "Escape from the Seraglio" and "The Marriage of Figaro" were earth shaking in their day.

A little learning is a dangerous thing, but a quick read of this will put opera in context.

Some other important "operas" are Porgy and Bess, Show Boat, West Side Story, Brigadoon, Sweeney Todd, Evita, etc., as well as JC Superstar, Tommy and many others.

Floyd founder Syd Barrett, dead at 60

Floyd founder Syd Barrett, dead at 60

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