600X CMOS problem

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epbrown · #1 Post by **epbrown** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 6:20 pm

Here's what happened: my 12 year old nephew was - for reasons no one can clearly explain - fiddling with the CMOS edit screen on a 500Mhz 600X, and ever since the unit refuses to boot into W2K. The system has no post codes or error messages, but when Windows attempts to load the system flashes an error message too quickly to read (even hitting "pause/break") and blue screens. The system then tries to reboot and hangs.

My suspicion is the nephew changed a memory address setting and now there's a conflict - but I have no way of knowing what was changed, and I'm not due to visit my sister until next month.

Would having my nephew remove the CMOS battery for a few days cause the 600X to lose its (bad) settings and return to factory defaults?

#2 Post by **pkiff** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 6:45 pm

I cannot say for sure, but that is my understanding. In fact, I thought you didn't need to remove the CMOS battery for more than 5-15 minutes in order to cause it to forget any customized CMOS/BIOS settings.

If your nephew can get into the ThinkPad Easy-Setup by pressing and holding <F1> after turning the Power on, though, then I would tell him to try to use the "Initialize" function first, as I think that also has the side effect of restoring the default CMOS settings along with "initializing" a new or replacement CPU and/or motherboard. Once you are at the main Easy-Setup screen, go to Config -> Initialize.

If that doesn't work, then he can also try to use the Reset switch, located between the USB port cover and the power switch on the left side of the machine. I think you can stick a straightened paper clip in there and that may also reset some of the start-up settings.

Both of these are probably easier than removing the CMOS battery, so I would try them first, and only try removing the CMOS battery as a last resort.

Phil.

epbrown · #3 Post by **epbrown** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 9:36 pm

pkiff wrote: If your nephew can get into the ThinkPad Easy-Setup by pressing and holding <F1> after turning the Power on, though, then I would tell him to try to use the "Initialize" function first, as I think that also has the side effect of restoring the default CMOS settings along with "initializing" a new or replacement CPU and/or motherboard. Once you are at the main Easy-Setup screen, go to Config -> Initialize.

If that doesn't work, then he can also try to use the Reset switch, located between the USB port cover and the power switch on the left side of the machine. I think you can stick a straightened paper clip in there and that may also reset some of the start-up settings.

Phil.

Thanks for the tips, those were among the first things I tried. Jay (my nephew) had done some web browsing about tweaking the 600 series and learned the key-combo for getting into the CMOS (which is Easy Setup/Initialize/Ctrl +a). What he planned on doing there, even he isn't sure, but while looking at the screen his nephew, who's only 9 months old, began imitating him by pressing randomly on the keyboard. From there, the system never booted again. We tried Initializing the system in Easy Setup, using the reset button, and even booting with the mouse keys held down (which is the oldest ThinkPad initialization I know). None have worked. Jay likes to tinker (which is how we got into this mess) and I think he's up to removing the battery - I just wanted to verify it would work. It'd be GREAT if the system comes back after only 15 minutes - Uncle Emanuel would achieve coolness levels only previously achieved with liquid nitrogen.

BillG · #4 Post by **BillG** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 11:42 am

If initializing the BIOS doesn't work, then the BIOS firmware itself has been trashed and needs to be replaced. Try reflashing the BIOS from a floppy.

epbrown · #5 Post by **epbrown** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 4:04 pm

BillG wrote:If initializing the BIOS doesn't work, then the BIOS firmware itself has been trashed and needs to be replaced. Try reflashing the BIOS from a floppy.

Tried that as well - the BIOS won't flash, saying it's not for this system. I think the software can't recognize the trashed BIOS.

Also, we got the CMOS battery out and while the system did lose it's settings (he had to reset the time, etc), it still refuses to boot.

BillG · #6 Post by **BillG** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 4:14 pm

epbrown wrote:Tried that as well - the BIOS won't flash, saying it's not for this system. I think the software can't recognize the trashed BIOS.

I'm sorry to say that it sounds like the BIOS firmware is trashed.

All the CMOS battery does is keep the BIOS selected options alive - the boot order, recognizing the processor ID, etc, which is stored in SRAM. That won't affect the firmware, which is in non-volatile Flash memory.

At this point your best bet would be to pick up another laptop from eBay (there's a 600X for sale right now at $72.95.). Uh, I'd recommend password protecting the BIOS on that one...

#7 Post by **pkiff** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 4:48 pm

Is it at all possible that this is a hard drive/OS issue?
Is it even remotely possible that the CMOS battery is actually low/dead?

I don't have any further suggestions.

I know one is not supposed to fiddle with the BIOS and I have heard that you can cause catastrophic failures when it is not done correctly, but despite this, I had the impression that the editable CMOS would be overwritten when you used the Initialize function and/or Reset button, no matter how badly you had mangled things. So I am surprised that the BIOS firmware could be trashed by a bad typing experience on the BIOS editor. On my 600X there appears to be a duplicate of the default BIOS that is stored in non-volatile flash memory and that cannot be edited. Maybe there were edits done and then the battery/AC power died at the exact inopportune moment that something was being written to the BIOS. That would be very bad luck indeed.

Sorry we couldn't come up with a solution.

You are still "liquid nitrogen cool" Uncle Emanuel as far as I'm concerned

Phil.

BillG · #8 Post by **BillG** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 5:09 pm

flashing the BIOS is independent of the OS and the hard drive - the BIOS is "before" them.

Yes, fiddling with the BIOS can cause catastrophic failure, and it looks like that's exactly what happened here. If the BIOS won't initialize, and if it won't Flash, then unfortunately it's trashed.

The good news is you can easily replace it with a more powerful 600X!

epbrown · #9 Post by **epbrown** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 5:29 pm

Thanks for the help, guys. It's my own fault - Jay fiddled with my 600X last weekend and noticed it was faster than this (850Mhz, 7200 rpm drive, DVD-RW), and I told him I'd upgraded it using info off the internet, and would do his when I visited again; I should have known a 12-year old wouldn't have the patience to wait a month for me to come back. He searched Google and the BIOS was messed up before I finished the drive back to Chicago.

I think I've still got one card to play. When I return, I can put our 600s side by side and go into the CMOS editor and edit it line-by-line to match mine, though I'm hoping/suspecting that it's only the first line that was altered. The fact that it still boots as far as loading Windows makes me think the problem is all BIOS.

I still don't plan to lock Jay out of his laptop - these are learning experiences, and I'd rather help him through the sticky points than fence them off. Worst comes to worst, he'll get my old 600E, though he'd be thrilled if I gave him mine and (finally) moved up to the T43p I always talk about.

600X CMOS problem

600X CMOS problem

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