Thinkpads in Europe

[nuno77]

A few days ago I asked this privately to one of this forum’s members but I still find it hard to understand…
My job makes me wonder around Europe quite frequently and I must admit Thinkpads are a rarity. One might say that this is due to their high prices… well you can see Vaios and Macs everywhere and they’re not that cheap…
I might be terribly wrong but I find thinkpads incredibly difficult to buy in Europe – of course you can find them on this or that particular place recommended by a friend, but walking around London all stores have all the new computers you can imagine, none of them are thinkpads… The few stores that sell them generally only have old machines (really old) sold as new ones with incredibly high prices – today I found a pre-coreduo X series for almost 2000 pounds (that’s a lot of dollars…).
Comparing Lenovo’s prices in the US and the UK makes me wonder if they are talking about completely different machines… and this is not only due to taxes because the prices of the Sony SZ2 are roughly the same here and in the US.

Example: a Thinkpad X60s UK15LUK with the L2400 1.66GHz and the X6 ultrabase costs, according to Lenovo UK 3,199 USD (1,740 GBP) – with no extras… (http://www5.pc.ibm.com/uk/products.nsf/ ... d+X+Series).
There are no special sales, almost no options…
I don’t understand it… isn’t Lenovo interested in Europe? All the other manufacturers seem to be… Or am I terribly wrong? I wish I am because I really like these black beauties and I’m really tired of having as my only options glossy machines that look more like solar panels than computers…

[christopher_wolf]

Last time I was in Germany, I saw Thinkpads in quite a few places; I dare say that they outnumbered other laptops in some cases. Things might have changed a tad, but there seemed to be a good following there. Of course, Thinkpads are already premium systems in the US and new, bleeding edge models have a price tag to match; it gets even more expensive once you add VAT and the protection...I mean "Various Other" fees as well. That might have something to do with it.

[Zeitgeist]

Last time I was in Germany,

During the World Cup?

Well, London is not Europe, if you don't see Thinkpads in London it doesn't mean you don't see them elsewhere in Europe.

In Germany, for example, you find here a dealer list:
http://www.pc.ibm.com/de/thinkpad_center.html

In Uk here:
http://www.pc.ibm.com/uk/findreseller.html

I agree, the prices are higher in Europe, however, you can always order from the US, e.g. here
http://www.euclidcomputers.com/deviceta ... novo/brand

[nuno77]

As I said, it’s not that you can’t find them, the problem is the mainstream stores don’t seem to sell them – at least in the places I know, UK, Portugal, Spain, Italy or France – thinkpads are totally absent or incredibly expensive (and old) in all the big chain stores – Dixons, FNAC, El Corte Ingles (the list is very big)… you can get everything there, from the most expensive Sony to the latest Asus but thinkpads, if they exist (and they generally don’t), are almost always double the price and the age of their competitors.

Also, the price difference cannot be just a matter of taxes. Take for example the Sony Vaio SZ2 Core Duo 2.00 GHz. According to Sony UK it costs 2980 USD (1599 GBP) including all taxes; Sony US sells the same computer for 2899.99 USD (according to Sony US: Prices do not include any sales, local or other similar taxes or fees) so the difference is negligible.

By the way, you’re probably right when you say London is not Europe, it is, in fact, one of the few “world cities”…

[Rose]

Mainstream stores sell consumeroriented products. Not businessoriented products. Thinkpad is a businessoriented product line. Here in sweden for instance, you wont find any businessoriented products in mainstream/retail stores. There are no thinkpads, just as there are no for instance Dell Latitude series computers.

[_erazor_]

@nuno77:

in Germany you find thinkpads quite easily and reasonably priced. they cost about 10% more than in the US, but that`s "ok-ish" I think.

so I really think the UK is an exception. Germany is right in the middle of Europe and one of the bigger countries aswell and there are no problems like the ones you mention. ofcourse you can`t find thinkpads in EVERY store that sells notebooks (acer, sony, apple, toshiba etc. are more common) but it`s no real problem to find reasonably priced thinkpads either.

I suggest you look (and buy) in Germany. You can buy a UK keyboard separately for about 40-60 euros and make your thinkpad a UK one everything you then additionally need is a cable between the A/C adaptor and your wall outlet because UK has different plugs than germany (but that cable goes for 10 euros max).

the ibm/lenovo warranty applies to EVERY country in the same way so if you got a "german" warranty on a thinkpad then it`s equally valid in the UK.

next to that, in Germany there exists a law that you can return stuff you didn`t buy in a "real" shop (but instead online or on the phone). you can return it up to 14 days after arrival in your home WITHOUT GIVING REASONS. it does not even have to be sealed anymore. so you can use it normally, and if you don`t like it you can return it without giving a reason within 14 days and get a FULL REFUND. that`s a general German law that applies to anything you buy on the net or on the phone, so if you buy in a German shop then it applies to you, too. I did this myself with a notebook and later with a tft because I didn`t "like" them (they were working perfectly) and you get all your money back. nice eh?

isn`t this a nice option for you? just get a German friend to buy a thinkpad in germany for you and you are done

[christopher_wolf]

No, not during the World Cup. Study abroad, actually and it was quite nice. Yes, I did see a good sampling of Thinkpads, for many of the same reasons Erazor pointed out.

And, Zeitgeist, since when did the OP title mention London? Last time I checked, "London" didn't equal "Europe" either.

[btorbik]

ThinkPads are generally not available in U.S. retail or electronics stores, either, but a number of U.S. internet vendors do offer them. As one of the previous responses stated, TPs are generally a "corporate" item and as such don't make it to consumer channels.

If you are seriously interested in obtaining a TP at something approaching U.S. prices, private message or email me ("btorbik@gmail.com) and I may be able to assist you.

[nuno77]

From what I can see the availability of thinkpads in places like Germany seems to be wider and the prices lower, however, the difference with the US is still substantial and as I said previously this difference almost doesn’t exist when it comes to other brands like Sony.
I was just checking one of the German online stores that some of you kindly suggested and a X60s (with ultrabase, 1024MB, 80GB and 4 cell battery) costs 2199 Euros (roughly 2820 USD) while an equal computer at Lenovo US costs 1949 USD (and this is Levono’s price, you can probably get it cheaper elsewhere…) .
So, the difference is still substantial…

And again, when I’m referring to the price difference I’m not even focusing on Britain (where the difference is obvious); just go to Lenovo France and see the prices for yourself: a regular X60s, with no extras, costs 2739 Euros (that’s 3511 USD) - http://www5.pc.ibm.com/fr/products.nsf/ ... d+X+Series
Lenovo Spain sells another regular X60s (512MB, 80GB,4 cell) for 2122 Euros (2721 USD)
Lenovo Italy, for another of those regular X60s (2x512MB, 80GB,4 cell), comes up with a very interesting price: 2940 Euros (3770 USD)
And I’m not adding extras, it’s just the regular price for the standard regular models.

[david25]

Could also try ebay(UK), I found a low spec x60 (1.66ghz solo) for £750, choose your seller carefully, wouldnt recommend anything international, except for some of the US powersellers (though you'd get a US keyboard)

[Legionnaire]

Nowadays there are so many types (ultra-portable, portable, desktop-replacement) and brands that's is not a question of where but who. Who owns what.

Here in Greece, more and more young people (mostly students) buy laptops. For them, important things are big screens, powerful CPUs and GPUs able to handle the latest games. Obviously TPs are not for them. So they turn to cheaper solutions like Acer which offer great desktop replacements at an affordable price.

Bussinessmen ofcourse want something more portable and less powerful but still want to keep the cost down so they prefer brands like Toshiba, HP, Fujitsu-Siemens.

The rest of us have IBM or DELL.

So it is the logical way for a retail store to get and support the popular brands. For the record let me say that buying a DELL requires a phone call directly to the official importer. The same goes for IBM but some TPs may appear in retail stores. Unfortunately it's mostly older models aka models in stock.

P.S.: We hardly have any Macs and that's a disappointment since, from what I hear, in the U.S. a lot of people use them and stay satisfied.

[jamess]

Lower and midpriced Thinkpads are generally available in Slovenia (not Slovakia).

I got mine with "our" slovenian keyboard X60s for 2400 USD (1704 - 5LG, 1.66, 1.5 GB, 80 gb, fingerprint, wlan, btooth, ultradock X6, DVD recordable).

You can get them in all bigger stores here, however you only get mid priced models. easy to order any model and it takes a week or so to get it then.

It is however easier to get Vaios. All but the latest/priciest models of Sony Vaio are in-stock and available in bigger computer stores.

[Chaoz]

Could also try ebay(UK), I found a low spec x60 (1.66ghz solo) for £750, choose your seller carefully, wouldnt recommend anything international, except for some of the US powersellers (though you'd get a US keyboard)

I'm actually the seller of those X60 on Ebay. A little hurt that you'd call it low spec, since it's actually much faster than my old X41. Excellent value for money at the price point I'm offering them for though!