Widescreen T-series Thinkpad coming .... October?

[Tiger]

Here's the link http://www.laptoplogic.com/news/detail.php?id=1256

[foodle]

If true, this would be a very odd from a product-line differentiation standpoint given the Z-series. Maybe this is why the 14" Z-series doesn't have a GPU; they're saving that for the 14" widescreen T-series.

Where'd I put that big grain of salt ...

[budugu]

Right now Lenovo is desperate to sell stuff. Thier return policy has changed, etc. I think they are going to try every darn thing the book to see if some thing works. Z series is some how considered entertainment oriented. With Dell and HP having having widescreen business machines there is nothing lenovo can do except follow it. T series has a good brand image even in thinkpads, so they are throwing their Ace into the ring.

Interesting question would be is if you will buy it?

[megalosaurus]

It makes a lot of sense to come out with a widescreen T series. The rest of the industry has already mostly moved to widescreen. It's clear that's what the public wants, so Lenovo will have to follow suit. (Reminds me of the old quote attributed to some monarch whose name I have forgotten: "There go my people. I must follow them for I am their leader.")

The introduction of the Z61P at least gives us some hope that when the T series shift over to widescreen, they will achieve their wideness by adding width, not by removing height. All I'm really interested in is how many pixels the display has. The height to width ratio really isn't that important. But I can understand that there are a lot of people out there with business laptops who still rate being able to watch a DVD movie in its proper format as one of their highest priorities.

[FlexOink]

I am soooo happy now I have a 4:3 T60p, I just hate widescreen notebooks.

I think this is not a good development, as the story suggest, Lenovo wants to keep up with the rest. But why would Lenovo transfer their flasghip model in a regular-consumer friendly widescreen notebook. I'm trying to say this without sounding too elitist, but I think most people settle for the quality of a Dell or any other brand. But there are some people that want a good quality, reliable machine, and they are willing to pay more for this quality.

I'm not saying Lenovo shouldnt get on the train, but why do this to the T series? If people want to do multimedia stuff on a laptop, and demand good quality, they can get the Z-series.
And I also dont hope they make a spearpoint out of makeing the thinkpad as cheap as possible , I'd rather pay more for more expensive, but more durable materials and parts.

It would be like Ferrari is designing their cars to fit more kids/family in them, because they want to compete with Volkswagen Minivans.

Bad news indeed.

[Kyocera]

Flex, you make a good point, but I think that would be a worst case scenario. You have a t60 and if you have owned thinkpads in the past you know there is nothing cheap about the t60, I am kind of blown away by how solid the thing is.
If lenovo pushes part of the thinkpad line towards the wide screen it may help get more people interested in the entire thinkpad line. More people interested more sales, more sales more people coming to thinkpads.com. Win - Win.

[budugu]

I'm trying to say this without sounding too elitist, but I think most people settle for the quality of a Dell or any other brand.

It would be like Ferrari is designing their cars to fit more kids/family in them, because they want to compete with Volkswagen Minivans.

Bad news indeed.

You are not helping yourself with that ... Anyway whats wrong if there is widescreen and a non widescreen version of T series (ex.. like HP .. they have both widescreen and lots of standard versions.

[foodle]

It would be like Ferrari is designing their cars to fit more kids/family in them, because they want to compete with Volkswagen Minivans.

2 words: Porsche Cayenne

[RonS]

2 words: Porsche Cayenne

Exactly. Herd mentality. A thousand lemmings can't be wrong.

Rather than focus on a widescreen, I wish they would improve the existing T series by adding firewire and DVI.

[bigtiger]

If lenovo wants to significantly change the design a series, they want to name it as a new series, rather than ride on the T series.

I agree. Really bad idea.

One line that I really would like, is a super tiny line. Smaller than X. Good on battery. Reliable. Not too much powerful. Even a super-charged Windows CE platform would be fine.

Long gone those heavy laptops. I would never buy a heavy brick. Thus I hate the Z.

[NokiaNokia]

Why dont they improve the Z series instead of touching the T series. this is a business machine man come on

[christopher_wolf]

I would keep the 4:3 aspect ratio on the T Series; they aren't likely to change that, *maybe* add a 16:9 widescreen...but that is it. The Z Series is entertainment oriented, but it is a Thinkpad business machine as well; so, by definition, it is a business notebook. In addition, it would also undercut sales of their very *own* Z Series for no reason or gain.

The likes of Dell took a different approach where they worked up to coming up with something that had a 16:9 for a variety of reasons and only considered business use and quality as secondary concerns. That is not the case with the Z Series.

A thousand lemmings can be wrong; as there is a make-believe "collective intelligence," there must also be a "collective ignorance/stupidity" that goes with it *if and only if* everything goes unquestioned (e.g. "Why should we have a widescreen T Series when we already have the Z Series?") and mistakes are not learned from and built upon.

[FlexOink]

2 words: Porsche Cayenne

Exactly. Herd mentality. A thousand lemmings can't be wrong.

Rather than focus on a widescreen, I wish they would improve the existing T series by adding firewire and DVI.

Herd mentality? Since when did the T-series became a herd laptop? Laptop-buying-herds go for cheap, multimedia packed, mean lookin, pimpish laptops. T-series users go for a reliable, quality machine.

And how can you compare a T-series to a Porsche? Tsk, its a Ferrari at least.

btw I agree on the DVI and firewire aspect. S-video would also be nice.

[christopher_wolf]

You don't compare something like the Cayenne to a 911 Turbo....well, not sanely anyway.

The Thinkpads aren't like all the other laptops on the market, the simple fact that they have such a following *and* are highly renowned for being extremely reliable and advanced business machines is more than enough to show that. It isn't that widescreen doesn't fit in that image, it does, but rather this; why make the flagship line, the T Series, in a widescreen version (or, horror, widescreen *only*) when the Z Series is already out.

Not only that, but should IBM/Lenovo feel that the Z Series is not enough, the Z Series *itself* provides a good starting point for any Thinkpad widescreen modifications and test beds. Changing the entire T Series to widescreen would be putting the reputation, quality, and robustness of the T Series at risk by re-doing the chassis (on a whim, thereby ignoring complications such as stress points and airflow) and making a good majority of the parts and framing incompatible with the T60. From both a pure technological/engineering and a business/market standpoint, that makes no sense.

[GomJabbar]

If lenovo wants to significantly change the design a series, they want to name it as a new series, rather than ride on the T series.

I agree. Really bad idea.

LaptopLogic has learned that Lenovo will be releasing a widescreen version of its flagship T-series, a stark departure from classic T-series Thinkpads.

Notice that the quote from LaptopLogic includes the words: "widescreen version of its flagship T-series". This tells me that the current form factor (4:3 aspect ratio) of the T-series will remain, with a new form factor (widescreen) being added. I think this is a GOOD idea. There are some people not stuck in the past who prefer the widescreen format. Personally, I need a smaller laptop that can fit in my briefcase when I travel and for this reason I bought the 14" version. I did not want the 15" version. Some T-series owners love their 15" version. I am just happy that either choice is available. Adding a widescreen version is very much along the same lines. Now instead of just 14" and 15", there will be a widescreen version as well. More choices is good. Not wanting to see a T-series ThinkPad available in the widescreen format IS elitist IMO.

[Puppy]

The only important thing is the technology of the new widescreen panel. Only S-IPS (called FlexView) is acceptable for T-series. If the widescreen mania brings those glossy TN-based crap displays it would be major step down in ThinkPad quality

[K. Eng]

I don't understand why there is all this animosity towards widescreen displays.

The standard XGA panel found in baseline ThinkPad T series models has a resolution of 1024x768. By moving to a widescreen, the baseline resolution moves to WXGA, or 1280x800. The downside is that WXGA+ is 1440x900 (as opposed to 1400x1050 for the 4:3 SXGA+ display).

The 14.1" Widescreen forum factor is also less deep than a 14" 4:3 design. In practice, I've found that this increases the amount of space I have available to work with on my table when I have my notebook out. This is a small convenience, but its enough to keep me using this Latitude D620 instead of the ThinkPad T20 for work.

[irfan]

I love my non-widescreen T60. I am glad I have it. I was considering to buy a widescreen notebook before T60. But now, I am so used to it, I can't think of using a widescreen. The normal aspect ratio is just so convenient to carry and use.

[jjesusfreak01]

I don't understand why there is all this animosity towards widescreen displays.

The standard XGA panel found in baseline ThinkPad T series models has a resolution of 1024x768. By moving to a widescreen, the baseline resolution moves to WXGA, or 1280x800. The downside is that WXGA+ is 1440x900 (as opposed to 1400x1050 for the 4:3 SXGA+ display).

Thats why you need WSXGA+ or even WUXGA, then you will get up to par with the resolution of the current T60s

[RonS]

Exactly. Herd mentality. A thousand lemmings can't be wrong.

Rather than focus on a widescreen, I wish they would improve the existing T series by adding firewire and DVI.

Herd mentality? Since when did the T-series became a herd laptop? Laptop-buying-herds go for cheap, multimedia packed, mean lookin, pimpish laptops. T-series users go for a reliable, quality machine.

And how can you compare a T-series to a Porsche? Tsk, its a Ferrari at least.

btw I agree on the DVI and firewire aspect. S-video would also be nice.

By "Herd Menatlity" I was referring to Lenovo's plan to change the T60 line, not what the existing buyers are doing. The Porche Cheyene came about because many auto makers where selling lots of SUV's, so Porche thought they should do it as well. Foodle has a good analogy here, because they're both products that represent the high-end of their segment.

I used to use a widescreen Dell. I got tired of it. Most of what I do, write code, use Word, surf the web, etc. feels more natural in a "tall" profile rather than wide. You can see more content that way. Also, the wider footprint is more difficult on airline tray tables which is important if you travel a lot.

[FlexOink]

Notice that the quote from LaptopLogic includes the words: "widescreen version of its flagship T-series". This tells me that the current form factor (4:3 aspect ratio) of the T-series will remain, with a new form factor (widescreen) being added. I think this is a GOOD idea. There are some people not stuck in the past who prefer the widescreen format. Personally, I need a smaller laptop that can fit in my briefcase when I travel and for this reason I bought the 14" version. I did not want the 15" version. Some T-series owners love their 15" version. I am just happy that either choice is available. Adding a widescreen version is very much along the same lines. Now instead of just 14" and 15", there will be a widescreen version as well. More choices is good. Not wanting to see a T-series ThinkPad available in the widescreen format IS elitist IMO.

Your point is based on the idea that Laptop Logic actually gave a lot of thought to their writing. But I doubt Lenovo will make 4:3 and widescreen T-series at the same time. There will be too many differences between them, which would mean they have too engineer two types of notebooks for one series. When I think of it there is no notebook brand (as far as I know) that offers a wide/regular screen option within one series or model. From an economic point of view, it's cheaper to redesign the entire series, as opposed to doing it twice.

[snife]

Its amazing what one little comment can do.

Anyway - nobody said that they were stopping 4:3 T series - it never made much sense to have the Z series IMHO, widescreen T series makes much more sense, even if they just add things like the card reader to the widescreen models once there is no Z series.

It is a herd mentality which I do not like - I still do not think widescreen is better, in the same way I think touchpads are annoying, ports on the sides are mental and crapware shouldn't be preloaded but the fact is the majority of the herd (the public) do not make good choices in their buying decisions so Lenovo is left with little choice if they want to sell systems.

Due to volumes it should be cost effective to run the T series in both wide and non-wide forms, the danger may be when X and R made a widescreen transitionm, there may not be the business justification to continue the 4:3 formats of these models as well and that will be sad.

Widescreen has become a buzz item IMHO, the same way non-technical people want Centrino when they don't even know what it is, I cannot believe that people use their notebooks primarily for watching movies or working with spreadsheets, so cannot see the reason for widescreens selling so well.

[Tiger]

Perhaps Lenovo is thinking more like Mercedes Benz than Porsche in expanding the T-series line to be their flagship class of laptops, like Mercedes has done with the S-class. In the S-class you have the choice of an S600, SLK, SL , etc. if you want the best car. Lenovo may be moving the T-series in that direction - that if someone wants the best laptop then they can choose from the T- series line . Either a traditonal form factor or a widescreen or perhaps even a 17" screen T- series ( ya never know). In the sense that the T-series will be the best built laptop around in whatever form factor - thin light strong and beautiful. If Lenovo made a 17" T-series laptop - which was the best 17" laptop - don't tell me if she/he ( depending on your computing gender) was sitting on your lap you wouldn't want to play with her/him all afternoon. Before computers served one purpose but now there are different segments - gaming , business, entertainment , grahics, etc. - so to be the best you need one in each segment. But you also need an entery level model to satisfy that part of the market to - like Mercedes does with their C- class , E- class , etc.. But then again what do I know ...

[GomJabbar]

But I doubt Lenovo will make 4:3 and widescreen T-series at the same time. There will be too many differences between them, which would mean they have too engineer two types of notebooks for one series.

Lenovo can't walk and chew gum at the same time - eh?

[NS]

Don't say i am old fashioned.

I still prefer the classic T60 to widescreen. Pulling all images wide. EEkkkkkk!!! I hate it...!

[GomJabbar]

Don't say i am old fashioned.

I still prefer the classic T60 to widescreen. Pulling all images wide. EEkkkkkk!!! I hate it...!

I didn't mean to say you are old fashioned if you don't like the widescreen model for yourself. What I meant was; you could be old fashioned if you do not want to see anyone with a widescreen T-series ThinkPad anywhere. If someone else having a widescreen T-series ThinkPad would turn your stomach.

[archer6]

OK... OK... I read the article on Laptop Logic about the upcoming widescreen. Then I read these comparisons below...

It would be like Ferrari is designing their cars to fit more kids/family in them, because they want to compete with Volkswagen Minivans. Bad news indeed.

2 words: Porsche Cayenne

And how can you compare a T-series to a Porsche? Tsk, its a Ferrari at least.

You don't compare something like the Cayenne to a 911 Turbo....well, not sanely anyway.

From my earlier post in "Off Topic" regarding my current sportscars (for comparison here)
1. 1991 Ferrari F40
2. 1988 Ferrari 308 GTB
3. 1989 Ferrari 348
4. 1986 Ferrari Testarossa
5. 2005 Mini Cooper S
6. 2006 6 Saleen S281 Coupe
7. 1999 Porsche 996 GT3

Then I took my T60p and my widescreen Z60m out to the shop and put them on the floor next to my 2 favs, the F40 & the 996 GT3.
Here are my observations:
1) T60p has a very dull black finish? Ferrari Red! T60p lacks the F40's NACA ducts. However it is a lot lighter.
2) Z60m is missing the rear wing of the 996 GT3? Lacks the intercooler? Fan noise cannot be heard over the Porsches Exhaust?

Now they're changing the T series?.... oh my.... so now what?..... I'm soooo confused.....

[megalosaurus]

I just had a look at Dell's and HP's websites. I couldn't find a single laptop with a 4:3 screen at Dell. (There might still be something there but it must have been well hidden.) HP had a couple models but they were ultralight or ultracheap.

My own feeling is that this whole widescreen business reveals the real motivators driving people's choice of laptops. Many of them supposedly have these machines for business use, but what they really want is to impress their friends with how thin it is and to watch movies. In short, it is a fashion statement. Even Lenovo advertises their Z series as "stylish" and say it will "turn heads." However, the market has spoken, and failure to follow will leave Lenovo looking like they are out of touch with reality. The best we can hope for is that they will not compromise the features that set the ThinkPad apart from the rest of the herd when they go over to widescreen.

IMHO, what really matters on a display is the number of pixels. The first widescreen Z series machines had a 1280x768 display. This was hardly a great leap forward. They could have accomplished this by taking a 1998 vintage 770X with a 1280x1024 display and disabling 25 percent of the screen. Most "widescreen" displays these days go up to a maximum resolution of 1680x1050. This comes fairly close to a 1600x1200 display (91.875 percent) but it's still a step backward. However, the 1920x1200 display that appears on the Z61P is actually an improvement, in terms of pixels. Now if they could do that in FlexView and put it on a T-Series, I would consider it a real winner.

[megalosaurus]

Here's another take on this issue. The first ThinkPads only had a single tiny speaker. Why did we need stereo speakers on a business computer? Why did we need a CD drive that was capable of playing music CDs? When they first started putting DVD drives in ThinkPads, the video decoder was an extra-cost option that had to be ordered separately. Some people screamed so furiously about that that IBM finally gave in and gave many of them the decoders for free. Somehow, through all of these developments, ThinkPads still managed to retain the characteristics that made them business computers. So long as the Z series is there to get the features like flashing LEDs and remote controls, the T series will get its widescreen and keep up with the herd but still be a business machine. My guess is that the flat panel manufacturers are already phasing out production of 4:3 screens, so Lenovo probably doesn't even have any choice in the matter.

[jjesusfreak01]

megalosaurus, remember not to compare apples to oranges. A 1680x1050 screen is WSXGA+, not meant to be comparable to UXGA, but clearly better than an SXGA+ screen. The higher end widescreens have WUXGA screens (1900x1200), which coincidentally is capable of easily displaying full 1080P HD content. I, for one would not mind a laptop with an SXGA+ screen, as long as the screen was about the same height, and obviously wider.

I do agree though that by looking at other companies in the laptop business, it seems that there is a strong trend towards widescreen laptops, which to alot of people could be disturbing. It wouldnt be worrisome if all Lenovo was going to do was introduce widescreen laptops, but it looks like it may turn to more than that if they follow the trends.

BTW, Thinkpads still have stinky speakers, and I think if they were any less substantial it would be a problem.