A brand new T43 units on Ebay with inflated shipping charges

[alexzabr]

Chances I may be considering another Thinkpad, eyeing Ebay offerings (mine I also bought there - so far so good). There are numerous brand new items available, some appears to be worth to trust in (after corresponding with the sellers).
There are the seller who is offering brand new, sealed T43 and T60 machines for a very reasonable pricing (though realistic enough not to consider "too good to be true"), however his shipping charges within US are 200$ which sound ridiculous bearing in mind UPS Ground for this kind fo stuff within US is about 25-40$ fully insured.
What do you think about it ?

I quiered the seller in this regard, will be waiting for his response, meanwhile I'm curious what the fellow community thinks about it....

[basscleff]

ebay is cracking down on these selling practices (inflated shipping)
I'd let the seller know that first off. See if he readjusts his shipping prices. You pay less ebay fees when you list and sell the item for less because shipping is not part of ebay listing and selling fees.

I personally don't purchase items from sellers that do this.
Especially since I'm in Canada, where shipping from other countries is already costly enough.

[dsigma6]

does the item price+shipping charge=good value? people often leave negative feedback for sellers over the inflated shipping charges, and it really urks me. sure they're trying to beat the system in lowering their seller fees, but if it works out to a fair price, no problem.

i especially hate the fact that people agree to the prices before hand, and when they see that they paid $30 for shipping and the label on the package says $4.05, they freak out.

[alexzabr]

That is the whole issue: item price+shipping charge makes the deal noticeably less attractive then the item price itself. The sum of these actually approaches the average Ebay pricing of the particular Thinkpad type.
Overall doesn't smell good for me, not because suspecitng a fraud, but just because doesn't sound good trying to make high margins on somethign that is just straight mandatory service but not the main goods that are selling.


UPDATE: just recieved seller's response - he lowered his S&H to around 50$ however checking his updated auciton page I noticed he increased the Buy It Now by 150$ so all in all getting to the same starting price-point.

[AlphaKilo470]

Well, I really don't know why people have such a beef with the practice of high shipping and low bidding. I sold some networking equipement on eBay recently and one item I sold went for a ood price but I ended up paying over $40 in eBay and PayPal fees. While those fees were nothing I couldn't sustain, they add up over time and really reduce my profits significantly and without profits, there's no point in even selling the item which then reduces the marketplace for buyers. If the total price of the auction translates to bad value, it's not likely to sell well and that's all there is to it.

[skitty4gzus]

I dont see it as "beating the system" at all. It is a loophole that ebay should fix, but thats not our fault for taking advantage of it. The fact of the matter is you pay an enormous fee for selling on ebay. And the fact he said that selling price+shipping fees pretty much equals out to what others are going for, I would probably buy from somebody else.

[AlphaKilo470]

$10 item with $40 shipping vs. $40 item with $10 shipping: what difference is it to the buyer? Why do people really give a care? Is this really about the value that buyer is getting or is this really just about seeing to it the seller gets minimum profit? To me this appears to be politics more so than ethics.

If the final price with shipping translates to something the product isn't even worth then I uderstand avoiding the product but that is a totally different scenario.

[basscleff]

I find its just an annoynace, because you scan through the items you seek, thinking you might actually find a good price on something, then you see the shipping charges...

in the end its the same to the consumer, but it's annoying.
As far as marketing your product , it catches the buyer's attention for sure.

[scosgt1]

I personally dislike it when sellers desire to make a profit on shipping. I always charge actual shipping, except on buy it now items. Then I use West Coast rates, since I am on the East coast, and that will cover me. I won't lose money, but I don't try to make money on shipping.

That being said, I have brand new and used T43's at fair prices, with actual shipping. US only of course.

[underclocker]

An annoying loophole to avoid fees assessed on seller.

It shouldn't be long before both eBay and PayPal (owned by eBay) figure out a way to crack down on this.

Both have really cranked up fees, which has caused more and more people to do this.

As always, read everything before bidding and assume the seller is trying to take you for a ride. After you decide the seller is legitimate, place appropriate bid(s).

No different when you are a seller, assume every bidder is trying to steal from you. Until there is better security, this is fact. It's the wild, wild West. This is why some of us prefer the marketplace here.

[BioHazard]

I'm really trying to get my arms around all the complaints everywhere about eBay and Paypal fees. Yeah, it is more expensive to sell on eBay than it used to be, and more expensive to take payments via paypal, but I for one think the costs are worth the service I receive.

Where else can I, in a matter of minutes, post an item for sale where millions of people have a chance to see it, where I have some semblance of security and information about the buyer via the feedback system. Where there are arbitration options etc. Where it will automagically print out shipping labels, and notify my buyer of their transaction status etc.

Where else can I send secure payment for an item via my cell phone, where I can park money and earn about 5% (money market funds) where I can access my funds via debit card, and get a 1.5% rebate on purchases. Where I can sell an item, and follow some simple, common sense guidelines and get $5000 of seller's insurance. Where I can pay for an item to an individual with a credit card - and if that person ships me a box of woodchips - I have some recourse for reimbursement. etc.

I'm sure if I sold a hundred items a month via ebay - I'd start to get upset at their take. But I think I would be (or should be) as equally bummed at FedEx's take as well.

It's soup de'jour to kvetch about eBay and Paypal - but I've made and saved a lot of money buying and selling via them throughout the years - and I'm really glad they are there.

And no - I don't work for either one

[Dizzy149]

The biggest issue with the high shipping prices is that for the most part eBay buyers are idiots and don't pay any attention. I sold for several years on eBay and 90% of the Neg feedback I received was from this. My shipping prices weren't absurd ($4 for a DVD), but they were approx twice my actual cost. The "normal" eBay buyer doesn't care that there is more than JUST the actual cost of shipping to take into account. Packing, time, postage, etc.

As for PayPal and eBay being a great place... For buyers, yes. It's a great, wonderful place. For sellers. It's absolutely rediculous. I ran an eBay business for several years, and here's my take on it.

Where else can I sell items where feedback is used as a bargaining chip. "I'll leave you a neg unless you refund me $3..."

Where else can I sell items with so many rules governing what I can and cannot accept for payment? "No Google Checkout or direct CC payments"

Where else can fraud be so rampant in a company that really just doesn't give a [censored]. Close the account that was victim and they wash their hands. Took me MONTHS to clear up damages fraudulant accounts would cause, many times THOUSANDS of dollars in fraudulant fees, and most the time my account would be shut down for nonpayment because I refused to pay the fraudulent fees.

Ahhh, now PayPal.... The company that FORCES sellers to accept credit card payments. Yes, sellers have no choice in this, and when partnered with eBay, you can't even tell people you accept CCs directly.

The company with a JOKE of a dispute system. All a buyer needs to do is claim it was "Not as described" and you'll never see your money again.

The company who "disputes cc chargeback claims on your behalf"... Right... They NEVER ask you for any information, so how exactly do they dispute the chargeback. Truth: They don't. They just take the money from your account and give it back. What do they care, it's not their money.

My average loss to PayPal fraud the first couple years was about $4000/year. That's a hefty loss for a small business.

Now here's the big one. Multiple buyers purchase hundreds of dollars of DVDs from me every week from eBay. They did this consistantly for about 6 months. Different titles, just bought alot of box sets. Feedback ratings were in the 400-500 range, nearly perfect feedback record on all accounts... About 5 1/2 months into it, they placed REALLY large orders. I emailed them to verify things, just to make sure. Couple days later I ship them out via USPS with tracking (I track everything). The day after the packages arrive *ALL* of the customers charge back *EVERY* payment made in the past 6 months. Nearly $10,000 in payments between them all.

They didn't file any PayPal complaints, they just charged them back... Why... Because they knew they would get their money back with no problems.

Where's the PayPal security there? Where's the fraud protection? I sent every email contact I had with them, every order confirmation and delivery confirmation to PayPal, but they didn't care. I asked for the bank's contact info so I could dispute the chargeback directly. Yeah right, you'd of though I was asking to sleep with their 14yr old sister.

Where was eBay'd trusted feedback system here? Fraud protection? Nope, after 45 days eBay doesn't do a single thing. The majority of the transactions were older than 45 days, and those within 45 days are still unresolved to this day. I was told that they user accounts were reported to be taken-over... Sure, taken over for six months and no one realized it.

Needless to say, I lost my [censored]. Lost my business, my house, and pretty much everything else in my life except my dog and my wife.

All because eBay and PayPal make policies to protect themselves and to make money, and NO other reason. Their security and fraud protection are nothing but a cheap facade. They do NOT care one iota about the customer.

<big sigh>
</end rant>
Stepping off soapbox now...

[RoxyRose]

Wow...and I thought losing my sold laptop during shipping and $500 bucks was bad, but...wow.

[bigtiger]

But Dizzy, can you sue eBay and PayPal.

I also had similar problems with eBay and PayPal. It is not that big, and plus, I didnot lose too much. So I didnot bother. But in your case, I surely will sue them.

[scosgt1]

If PP failed to give you an opportunity to answer the dispute, I think you have a cause of action (I am not a lawyer, see legal advice).
But I think that they are acting as your agent, and have a fiscal duty to involve you in the dispute process. A lawsuit would be a good thing, they know they could face a class action and punitive damages.

A few years ago, I had to file a dispute on non-received merchandise. They actually threatened me not to file for a chargeback with the CC company. Well, I did so, and won.
They cut off that credit card for around six months.

But I think after that, someone sued them, and they are REQUIRED to follow the Federal Law in regards to credit card disputes, so they can not screw with you over that any more.