What breaks on a T40?

[schmaud]

Hi,

My wife sort of hijacked my t42. So I am considering getting a a second laptop. A t4x would be an obvious choice, since accessories coudl be shared.

I noticed that quite a lot of t40's show up on ebay for +/- 600 €.
I guess the early t40s drop out of waranty and are companies upgrade their equipment...

What should I watch out for?
- batterie cycles
- keyboard condition
anything else?

What does break often on such a system? ( The thing would be likely out of warenty).

Is there any other major difference between t40 and later models besides slower ram and missing harddisk protection (and banias and wlan b)?
Are T40 and T42 docking-station compatible?

Do I see this right: power supplies from my T42 will not fit to t/x60?

Which x-series woudl work with a dock for the t4x?

Thanks a lot in advance!

ralf

[Thinkpaddict]

Hello,

If I were to get a T40 from eBay, first make sure that you buy from a reputable source, and that the return and refund policies are acceptable. Also, make sure to ask about the condition of the LCD (any bad pixels, any pressure spots, etc), since most people don't explicitly post the actual condition of LCD screens in their auctions. The next thing I would do is run some diagnostics (PCDoctor) on the computer when I got it.

As far as the battery is concerned, the number of cycles doesn't correlate exactly with the actual condition of the battery. I have seen batteries with as few cycles as 30 go south just for no other reason than the age of the battery. A 5-year old battery with 30 cycles will be in worse shape than a 1-year old battery with 100 cycles. Batteries age and are also unpredictable. Everytime you buy a laptop that is not new in eBay be ready to buy a new battery if needed.

Regarding the keyboard, as long as it is clean and all the keys work properly I would be happy with it. Shiny keys don't bother me, and they will get shiny with use anyway (specially the space bar).

One thing I would look out for is the USB ports. USB ports in all the T4x series have been known to be prone to lose their 2.0 functionality under some conditions (which if it is a result from the circuits being no longer functional requires a full motherboard replacement). My theory is that if you use a USB device that is not self powered and draws too much power off of the USB port in the Thinkpad it can cause the circuits to burn out. If I were you I would ask the seller directly whether the USB ports work at 2.0 speed, and then I would test this upon receipt of the computer. Just use an USB 2.0 harddrive (with power supply) that you have laying around, and transfer some big files around. If there is some problem, you should get a warning under Windows XP. You can also time the time required for the transfer to verify that you are running at 2.0 speeds (or close to them). If the USB ports are working at the speed that they should, you should be getting transfers at more than 2 MB/s, and close to 60 MB/s.

As far as power supplies, I think the T60 uses a different power rating than the T4x, and I even think that the connectors are not compatible.

You can put Dothan CPUs in a T40 if I'm not mistaken. You can also upgrade the Wifi card.

Regarding the docking station: I use both T4x and X2x in a Dock II with no problems. And yes, T40 and T42 are docking-station compatible.

Regards.

[cmarti]

Hello,

You can put Dothan CPUs in a T40 if I'm not mistaken. You can also upgrade the Wifi card.

Regards.

Of course T40's can be upgraded look at my signature.

And once you upgrade you can sold the parts you remove.

Do what Thnkpaddict says ask for the USB 2 functionality.

[Thinkpaddict]

Of course T40's can be upgraded look at my signature.

And once you upgrade you can sold the parts you remove.

Do what Thnkpaddict says ask for the USB 2 functionality.

I noticed in your signature that you have a FireGL T2. How did you get that in a T40? Do you have a T41 or T42 motherboard?

[Dimitri_P]

Based on my experience working with lot's of ThinkPads, T40's have a very common problem - their original motherboard has a very high failure rate.

I mean in my cas eit is usually 1 or two out of 10. few times perfectly working laptops died right in my hands.

If the laptop still powers on, but no picture - pushing on the right palm rest helps (!), mystery to me.

Never had sam eissues with any other laptops. I would say go with T41 to be safe. OR you can buy one from me

D.

[skunkwerkz]

The T40 has 1 large flaw the right side with drives only has 1 srew between CD\RW and HDD openings. If you are right handed you tend to pick up if open by the right corner of palmrest by logo.

Once that begins to flex the drive begins to flex planar and typically a solder joint becomes loose.

The ATI chips have also had some issues that result in not passing post

[noghri]

Yup, its the ATI chip. if you tend to pick up the machine with one hand, particularly if open and by the right side, the original T4x design wasn't quite stable enough. When stressed, the motherboard flexed and the ATI graphics chip, which is located under the palmrest flexed, may times causing a broken solder joint between the motherboard and the chip. The 7500-based boards seemed worse, but all early T40s were prone. If you have this issue, there is usually only an extremely small gap between the broken pieces and keeping the computer still, on a level surface will many times allow the computer to work perfectly. if however, the computer is moved the solder joint will separate and cause the graphics card to lock up, hanging the computer. The only fix for this is a motherboard replacement. AFAIK, T41s and T42s are much less prone to this issue and it is seen rarely. If your T40 is out of warranty, EZServ will usually do an out-of-warranty replacement for about $350-400 and if under warranty will replace it for free. Also check the optical drive, I've seen many Ultrabay Slim drives where the drive tray is loose and/or off the track (its delicate and some people don't handle them well). Finally, get the type (ex. 2373) and the serial number (ex. 99-xxxxx or L3-xxxxx) and do a warranty lookup on lenovo.com- the warranty is transferrable and it will tell you how much longer you have.

[M|S|W]

I just bought my T40 and it still has four months warranty Shall i change it to T41/42?

[schmaud]

Yup, its the ATI chip. if you tend to pick up the machine with one hand, particularly if open and by the right side, the original T4x design wasn't quite stable enough. .

OK,
this was a VERY usefull piece of information. I have a T4x, since I want something light and robust, beacuse I do not want to worry about how to handle the system( eg. with one hand...).
I guess i will stick around to see if there is a T41 or 42 with warranty coming my way...

thanks a lot!

ralf

[underclocker]

I mean in my case it is usually 1 or 2 out of 10 (T40's with bad system boards).

Ummm, I'm going to have to call BS on this one. 1 or 2 of 10 would mean that 10 to 20% of all T40's have died from system board failure within three years.

I'm going to guess that IBM sold 100's of thousands of T40's. Is it possible that up to 20,000 of every 100,000 had to have their system boards replaced? If so, wouldn't a consumer recall be in order?!

Dell had six bad batteries in 4.1 million and recalled them all. Granted, a bad system board may not start a fire, but a 20% failure rate doesn't seem IBM-like.

Is there any way for us to put this issue to bed? What is the typical system board failure rate across the industry for laptop system boards? Can it even be 1 in 1000?

For IBM's sake and my own (I do own a beautiful T40), I hope we get some real statistics on this.

[Dimitri_P]

Those were my facts, 1-2 out of each 10 T40 had to be snt to IBM, for motherboard replacement.

YOu own a T40 and it's fine, I had t40 for 1 year, and it also worked fine, but again, I woul dnot recommend any of my friends a T40.

I have my last T40 to sell, after that I'm dealing them only if I can get a good price on them; otherwise the possibility of future problems is not worth to me and my reputation.

[Thinkpaddict]

Is there any way for us to put this issue to bed? What is the typical system board failure rate across the industry for laptop system boards? Can it even be 1 in 1000?

1 in 1000? Not even nuclear reactors are so fail-safe. I am sure that 10-20% after 3 years is much closer to reality.

Then, you have to specify what constitutes board failure. Do "minor" problems that require board replacement such as the commonly talked about USB port problems qualify? Or only catastrophic board failures, including graphic card failure (which is integrated, and thus requires a motherboard replacement as well).

The simple truth is that electronics will fail after a while. Power spikes, electronic component failures, cosmic ray hits (no, I'm not kidding). You name it. If you continue using a computer for any period of time (and even if you just let it sit idle without using it) it is bound to fail sooner or later.

[underclocker]

I do not doubt Dimitri_P's stats, but I still find it hard to believe that 10 to 20% for an entire model is reality. Why would anyone be in this business?

IBM, and now Lenovo, even offers 5 year warranties on ThinkPads - seems crazy with this type of failure rate.

Or maybe the cost of repairing 20% is built into the cost of each one?

Industry stats would be great to see. Very interesting.

[M|S|W]

I agree with underclocker ...10-20% failure rate is It just cant be real....even IBM/Lenovo isn`t that rich

[Thinkpaddict]

Well, I'm sure that you pay for the extended service. Also remember that according to the service contracts they don't need to use new parts when a Thinkpad needs to be serviced.

That being said, IBM sold the PC division because it wasn't profitable enough. Much of this was probably the amount of money spent on resources (both service and software development for the platform).
What many people don't think about is that when you buy a Thinkpad you aren't paying just for the hardware, but for the driver/software development (think Access Connections, Software Installer, etc), and for service and support. That is (or used to be, anyway) the unseen component of Thinkpad premium (beyond the obvious, more tangible quality of the physical computer).

[Thinkpaddict]

I agree with underclocker ...10-20% failure rate is It just cant be real....even IBM/Lenovo isn`t that rich

All this overhead is factored in in the amount of money the end user pays, believe me. Many computer manufacturers (Dell cough cough Dell cough... ) are also notorious for having higher than usual out-of-the-box failure (this is a clear indication of poor quality control).

[underclocker]

http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,1981785,00.asp

The average failure rates for notebooks purchased between 2005 and 2006 are 15 percent in the first year of ownership and are projected to average 22 percent in year four.

Oh boy, according to the linked article above, I do have to eat my words. 20% may be the norm for the current, more reliable machines!!!

I will be extending my T40's 3 year warranty soon!!!

I guess this is why IBM was happy to sell their PC division. Yikes!

[Thinkpaddict]

I guess this is why IBM was happy to sell their PC division. Yikes!

Pretty much, yup!

The great advantage of Thinkpads as I see it though from the standpoint of a relatively knowledgeable user is that the HMMs are publicly available, plus they actually happen to be helpful. Add to this the fact that Thinkpads are about the most common laptops out there, and that there is an abundant source of second-hand and aftermarket parts for them. All this make Thinkpads the laptops with the most extended longevity in the industry period.