IBM FALSE ADVERTISING?

[teknerd122]

For students of community colleges in California, there is supposedly a 23% discount on select IBM computers. When I called to order a t42 express model (2379EZU), the CSR said that the price was $1928 and not the advertised $1484. What gives? Is IBM allowed to do this? I configured the computer online and the base price jumped to 1998. Then, after OS, RAM, HDD and bluetooth were added, the price was 2501. The CSR tried to tell me that that was the new, discounted price. I smell something fishy. Can anyone give me some insight regarding IBM's business practices? Sounds like a bait-n-switch, of sorts...

[Leon]

maybe it's because it's an express model.... they are rarely discounted!

[DaveH]

Where did you get your $1484 figure from? If might be your college's fault for misreporting the price in the flyer or whatever. Also you need to read the fine print... most colleges have their own refurbished PC reseller for students, which is what the advertisment may have been refering to NOT direct sales from IBM. I can't imagine IBM giving you a 23% discount on a Thinkpad... they don't even do that for their employees.

IBM is extremely straight forward in terms of advertising and sales... they're only a little awkward when it comes to customization and model selection. So given only these facts, I'd have to say there's a 90% chance you're the one who's mistaken. When dealing with a discount, for example, it should be a fact... not "supposedly". Double check your information then double check whether what you want falls into "select IBM computers".

Put it another way, IBM has thousands of satisfied customers (exceeded only by Apple)... more likely its your own fault before you blame them.

[hngu7721]

The 23% off discount is valid, and does apply to new Thinkpads. The discount however is taken off the list price, and isn't valid towards the Express models.

Just click on the products and services heading and select whatever series thinkpads you were interested in.

Hope that helps

[MrBeta]

Okay, that is my beef too, and a reason why I just purchased not one but TWO T42p Thinkpads, but NOT directly from IBM.

The educational pricing has "IBM web price" and "Your adjusted price". But when you click on CONFIGURE or ADD TO CART, the base price jumps to somewhere between the full IBM web price and the educational discount on the previous page (closer to full price in most cases). What gives? I was soooo close from ordering a Thinkpad directly from them but I could never get the prices that were quoted right there in black and white as "adjusted educational pricing."

What's even more confusing is that when you click on the CUSTOMIZE or ADD TO CART buttons, it pops-up with a message that the pricing may be off but will be adjusted during checkout to include the 23% educational discount. Well, I went all the way through the checkout process, signed in with my account which clearly says on the checkout screen is registered as STUDENT-ALUMNI, and the pricing jumped all the way to full retail on the final checkout screen.

I, too, smell something fishy.

Like I said, I ended up buying two T42p Thinkpads elsewhere, with great discount and no headaches. I'm quite surprised that IBM's own online pricing is so flaky. Heck, sometimes closing the web browser and going right back in would give you a completely different price (couple hundred $$ difference!).

[teknerd122]

Actually, I'm NOT the one who's mistaken. The 23% discount is being advertised by IBM and not my school. When I get to the page with the express models, they show the normal "web pricing" and, next to that, "your price", which reflects the 23% discount. (In this case, making the 2379ezu start at~$1480). I'm definitely not mistaken. The homepage for California community colleges even says: "save up to 23% on a new IBM ThinkPad" or something to that effect. IBM averages a 5/10 on resellerratings...is that accurate? Also, 1/5 of the time, I can't talk to an actual person when I call IBM. I usually wait about 15 minutes before I hang up. Also, the CSRs are quite fond of transferring me to other reps' voicemail...and I never get called back. I'm REALLY frustrated - I WANT an IBM but they're trying REALLY hard to force me to buy elsewhere. HELP!!!

[BillMorrow]

i'm not even going to comment..!

[egibbs]

You're not alone, and neither is IBM.

I've bought two machines from IBM - a T20 a several years ago and a Netvista 2 years ago. In neither case was I able to complete the purchase online - configuration errors, invalid prices, dead links, database errors during checkout, it was a farce. After trying many times I eventually gave up and called a real person. But it sounds like that option is now less available, probably because the CSRs are in Bulgaria or Somalia.

However, HP is having major problems too - they took a huge hit on 2nd quarter sales and have had to revise their 3rd quarter estimates partly because of problems with their online ordering system.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/08/17 ... stilldown/

It makes you wonder why anyone would buy e-commerce software from a company that can't even sell their own products online.

And I just saw that Ford is writing off a $200 million investment in an Oracle procurement system and going back to their legacy apps. Two Hundred Million Dollars wasted on junk!

http://news.com.com/Ford+scraps+Oracle- ... g=nefd.hed

E-commerce must be really hard. Either that or the people doing it must be really stupid.

Ed Gibbs

[sktn77a]

I must have got lucky - I ordered 2 computers on line from IBM in the last 6 months and it all went very smoothly. I also usually get a live person on the phone within a couple of minutes when I call.

[DaveH]

Actually, I'm NOT the one who's mistaken. The 23% discount is being advertised by IBM and not my school. When I get to the page with the express models, they show the normal "web pricing" and, next to that, "your price", which reflects the 23% discount. (In this case, making the 2379ezu start at~$1480). I'm definitely not mistaken. The homepage for California community colleges even says: "save up to 23% on a new IBM ThinkPad" or something to that effect. IBM averages a 5/10 on resellerratings...is that accurate? Also, 1/5 of the time, I can't talk to an actual person when I call IBM. I usually wait about 15 minutes before I hang up. Also, the CSRs are quite fond of transferring me to other reps' voicemail...and I never get called back. I'm REALLY frustrated - I WANT an IBM but they're trying REALLY hard to force me to buy elsewhere. HELP!!!

1. Again, it's pretty straight forward. I'm not seeing 2379EZU in stock... that means if you want one, they've got to built it from scratch, thus the extra expense. More likely than not the original advertisement said something along the lines of "while supplies last."

2. Put up a link. Help us duplicate your process.

3. Re:ResellerRating - Not at all. Again, read the fine print. You've got a sample of less than 36 reviews spanning 8 years and only 1 complaint out of 2 comments in the last six months. At RSR, complaints are over-represented... few people happy with their order go out of their way to post on RSR. So, in such a case, silence is golden.

4. I can't speak to the bad luck with the call service, I never had to deal with them as ordering online has been simple enough.

Anyways, simple guidelines... clear your cache/cookies, double check what URLs you're using to browse/buy, be clear of the conditions on your discount (there are footnotes everywhere), and buy something only in stock. Otherwise, if it isn't working out, just go to another reseller, like Bill.

[hngu7721]

mr beta

I was just as frustrated as you were when trying to configure my own thinkpad and noticed the jump back to regular price when i chose the add options and buy icon. Even though the laptop will jump up in price once selected, you will notice that the price of the options will be significantly reduced, i.e. $0.34 for a CDRW/DVD drive. Just proceed and configure as you normally would and the detailed configuration data will break everything down for you.

I was able to configure a T42 exactly like an Express model and my price was about 20% lower than the Express price. Thats even with the 9 cell battery!

Don't worry about wait time, as mine stated about a 4 week wait when i configured, but have just recieved my shipment notice 5 days after ordering.

[MrBeta]

I was just as frustrated as you were when trying to configure my own thinkpad and noticed the jump back to regular price when i chose the add options and buy icon. Even though the laptop will jump up in price once selected, you will notice that the price of the options will be significantly reduced, i.e. $0.34 for a CDRW/DVD drive. Just proceed and configure as you normally would and the detailed configuration data will break everything down for you.

I'm afraid that's not it. When I access the educational pricing section of IBM's web site, I do see "IBM Web Price" and "Your adjusted price", but once I click on ANY of them I get virtually the full price as base. Extras are on par or close to full retail if you enter just the regular www.ibm.com web site (not the eductional section).

In just one case the "discounted student pricing" actually was what it said on the previous page when I clicked on it, and since it was a nicely loaded T42p with just about everything, for around $2149, I left it all as-is and clicked CHECKOUT. Guess what - the price changed to $3049 on the checkout pages and it would NOT get lowered as I proceeded to pay for it.

[ZPrime]

Where did you get your $1484 figure from? If might be your college's fault for misreporting the price in the flyer or whatever. Also you need to read the fine print... most colleges have their own refurbished PC reseller for students, which is what the advertisment may have been refering to NOT direct sales from IBM. I can't imagine IBM giving you a 23% discount on a Thinkpad... they don't even do that for their employees.

They give greater than that for resellers though. Resellers get up to 6 units at 40% off, or 25% for express models. After that the discount goes to 20%/15% for another 40 units. The catch is that these are all "Demo" units and can't be resold for 90 days after getting them from IBM. It means that resellers can get IBMs for internal use *quite* cheap though.

1. Again, it's pretty straight forward. I'm not seeing 2379EZU in stock... that means if you want one, they've got to built it from scratch, thus the extra expense. More likely than not the original advertisement said something along the lines of "while supplies last."

Well, the 2379EZU is simply an "open bay," Think Express, w/3 year warranty (fairly rare among express models). It's designed to be used for the CTO system wherein they use 2379EZU as the base model and then add your components.

The only real reason to specifically order 2379EZU directly (without customizing it) is if you want to "build your own" thinkpad from stuff you already have on hand or have ordered separately.

2. Put up a link. Help us duplicate your process.

Agreed.

4. I can't speak to the bad luck with the call service, I never had to deal with them as ordering online has been simple enough.

I on the other hand can. Their wait times can be painfully long. 15-20 minutes to get a sales rep. On the other hand, every rep I've talked to (3 different ones) has spoken excellent English with NO major accent at all (and definately no Indian-type accents - one guy sounded a little Japanese or Chinese and that's about it). The reps are EXCELLENT, the ones I've talked to have known everything without even needing to reference a computer - I mentioned 2379EZU and the rep instantly knew I was talking about a T42(p) open bay with a 1.8ghz dothan, 15" UXGA. I was incredibly impressed. I've also made a call to IBM's replacement parts department - they too are awesome. The girl I talked to there was funny and very pleasent to deal with. She gave me her personal e-mail address when handling my transaction, and seemed willing to do almost anything to make my experiences with IBM as painless as possible.

I've been extremely impressed with IBM so far. We'll see what tech support is like when I try calling them after I get *my* open-bay 2379EZU.

[hngu7721]

how strange. i tried successfully to configure and it goes through without a hitch for me.

i chose the state, then instead of selecting from the choices on the right column, went to the top and selected products and services/thinkpads/t series.

might want to call the education rep and walk through it with him/her.

[teknerd122]

I emailed the education rep some time ago and he told me that Open Bay models MUST be configured with OS/HDD/RAM, etc from IBM's "options" page, so if there's a way to get the open-bay system less these components, PLEASE let me know!

As for the link: www.ibm.com/education/us

-CLICK on the graphic that says "save up to 23%" in red.
-under "education: buy PCs online", select "CA community colleges" from the pulldown menu and hit "go"

now you can click "products/services" and search for a computer, or enter the part number of a system you're interested in where it says "quick buy"
However, when I enter 2379ezu, it occassionally likes to take me directly to the configuration page, where the full price is shown. IF you enter 2379ezu in the "search" bar at the top, it will show you the discounted price.

[MrBeta]

As for the link: www.ibm.com/education/us

Perfect! Just what I wanted to point out.

Go to that page. You will see educational price on the 23733XU as $1840. Add it to your cart. No problem. Go to checkout. Says STUDENTS-ALUMNI pricing. BUT... look at the Order subtotal line: before taxes and shipping the price suddenly changes to $2251.65

Thanks IBM.



Another one: 23733VU EDU pricing is listed as $2129. Click add to cart - price changes to $2634.15

Another one: 23736VU EDU pricing is $1789. Add it to cart, the price changes to $2166.65

Now do you guys see that there is a REAL problem?

[hngu7721]

pm sent

[hngu7721]

once you're on that page

select higher education under the buy column

select shop now

select state in which you're going to school

select PC store under shop now

select products and services in the heading

then pick your poison and all should go well

[teknerd122]

Figured it all out, finally! So, the computer does, indeed, cost $1484. However, they gouge you on the configurable options. While the 60GB hd says "+$120", the itemized breakdown shows a price of $280 (which is $120 more than the base 30gb hd. ). IBM, of course, tries to make you believe that the 30gb hard drive is included in the $1484 base price and that you're paying $120 for the upgrade. Also, they charge you $199 for the optical drives and $100 for winXP home. So, the computer ends up being 2500 for:
-1.8ghz dothan
-256MB RAM
-"FireGL" 128mb Ati9600
-60gb, 7200rpm HD
-cdrw

Sadly, an Apple 15" PowerBook seems cheaper, after Student Developer discount. More RAM, Better video card, and electro-luminescent keys rather than the annoying T-series thinklight (i wish the thinklight were shielded as it is on the R-series computers...it shines right in my eyes). Anybody know of a similar computer for less? I'll order my Apple tomorrow, if not!

[JaneL]

I think you've already made up your mind. Order the Apple and enjoy it. You'll never be happy with the ThinkPad.

[Leon]

seconded......