The fan will not shut off! - This can't be right?

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Suspiria · #1 Post by **Suspiria** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 7:46 am

I have just bougt a new T60, and went for the one with the lowest specs (see my signature). I did this because I wanted maximum battery life (get 2 hours more batterylife with a integrated graphic card). Off cource, I will upgrade the ram.

Even though I am quite happy with the T60, there is one big problem, the fan noise. After about 5-15 minutes of silence, it turns on and don't turn off again. It is also quite loud. This can't be right?

At the time I bought the T60, I also bought a Dell Latitude D520, which is also of high quality It has a T2400 processor and 2 gig's of ram, otherwise with the same specs as the T60. This one is dead silent (the fan turns on once in a while under very hard work).

I have set all the powersettings on the T60 to the lowest, even in bios, but still the fan goes on. I have looked at how the T60 is designed, and I find it a little strange that Lenovo haven't made room for better ventilation. The Dell D520 has a large ventilation hole just under the fan and one smaller hole (like the one on the T60) at the back.

Is this a typical problem on the T60?

ennma · #2 Post by **ennma** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 9:36 am

yes, this is typicall, look at my signature, my turns on all the time too
and the gpu temp hovers around 60C, do a search first though alot of discussion on the subject. thanks

Suspiria · #3 Post by **Suspiria** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 10:01 am

Thanks! I did search and found discussions about the T60P, but this can't be compared to the T60 since it has an external graphic card, and therefore uses a lot more power (creates heat).

So, if this is normal on the T60, I may have to think about returning it. I don't want a noise monster on my lap.

BTW, what do you use to measure the CPU temp?

agarza · #4 Post by **agarza** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 11:19 am

Do this:

1. Can you post your CPU/GPU temps?
2. Try the Thinkpad T43 Fan Control utility and set it to Smart Mode, then compare if the CPU/GPU temps still increase when your fan is spinning at low RPM range.
3. If you're insatisfied with this, you can either:
3.1 Return the laptop to another one and hope the problem is gone.
3.2 Open it up and look if there's correct contact between the CPU and the heatsink (This problem could be the cause).
If you open it up, you might want to replace the stock compounds for high-end TIM, like Zalman or Arctic Silver 5, however I do recommend the former.

My theory is that some systems are bad assembled and the thermal compound used maybe too much and that's why the temps got so high.

I'm still experimenting on my T41p, I just ordered Zalman Super Grease as it BEATS Arctic Silver 5 and is easier to apply (just paint the CPU and heatsink with the included brush

)

Suspiria · #5 Post by **Suspiria** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 11:48 am

I downloaded FanControl, and here is the temperatures of my system. The notebook has been on for 4 hours, canstantly on inernet (wireless), and all settings is set to the lowest.

CPU 38°C (0x78)
APS 36°C (0x79)
PCM 33°C (0x7a)
BAT 30°C (0x7c)
BAT 29°C (0x7e)
BUS 37°C (0xc0)
PCI 40°C (0xc1)
PWR 38°C (0xc2)

I have been trying to enter Smart Mode, but the program only crashes.

IdeaDirect · #6 Post by **IdeaDirect** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 11:50 am

benottomex, do you know if applying Zalman would void the warranty? I'm thinking of doing this as well and would hate to ever have service refused because it was obvious I applied thermal compound myself.

Suspiria · #7 Post by **Suspiria** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 2:26 pm

Got it to work now, I had to restart.

This is a great improvement to the standard fan control. Now I have set it to:
Level=42 0
Level=46 2

It still gets warm fast, much faster than the Dell D520, so it has alot to do with the design of the T60. I will fine tune the FanControl further...

I don't want to mess with the heatsink, since this will affect the warranty.

Thanks!

pianowizard · #8 Post by **pianowizard** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 3:01 pm

My T43 has the same problem. The fan kicks in within ~10 minutes after startup, and it never turns off. I tried the Fan Control which helped quite a bit, but I worried that forcing the fan to turn off would cause everything to operate at higher temperatures and shorten their lifespan. So I stopped using the Fan Control. I find it easy to get used to the noise anyway.

JohnDrake · #9 Post by **JohnDrake** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 5:56 pm

Have you guys updated the firmware (BIOS, and on older T models, embedded controller) on your machines?

agarza · #10 Post by **agarza** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 8:39 pm

IdeaDirect wrote:benottomex, do you know if applying Zalman would void the warranty? I'm thinking of doing this as well and would hate to ever have service refused because it was obvious I applied thermal compound myself.

Well, it depends:

1. How much warranty you've left (a year, 2, 3??)
2. I've never had to send one of my Thinkpads for service, but I've heard that people who did applied Arctic Silver 5 on their Thinkpads, they did get the free in-warranty service, although got a strange look of the technician.

Why do you want to apply Zalman? is it because of improving CPU and GPU temps (idle/load)??

If you will be getting out of warranty, then it's a good idea to replace the stock TIM, but in the end it all comes down to your decision.

But I can guarantee you that with Zalman, my temps would drastically improve.

BTW, what are your idle/load temps of your laptop components??

Suspiria · #11 Post by **Suspiria** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 8:59 pm

I think I will try to use the FanControl very moderately, since I'm planning to have this notebook for many years. Here in Norway we have 5 years consumer buying rights (this is law, not the same as warranty) on all notebooks, and other items that are ment to last more than 2 years.

I have just borrowed a 1 Gig ram from the Dell, just to see if the harddrive will work less, and thereby create less heat. I will propably gain batterylife too.

agarza · #12 Post by **agarza** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 9:08 am

Suspiria wrote: I have just borrowed a 1 Gig ram from the Dell, just to see if the harddrive will work less, and thereby create less heat. I will propably gain batterylife too.

No, having 1GB or 1.5GB more of RAM is not going to help you with CPU overheating. However, it SURE helps if your HDD is seeking info like crazy, this only happens when your physical memory (512MB) has depleted so Windows use a portion of your HDD to function as virtual memory which as a matter of fact create heat on your HDD and create lag.

But this is independently on the heat generated on the CPU

khaverblad · #13 Post by **khaverblad** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 11:17 am

Well, I also received a T60 with the X1400 gfx chip and kind of gave me 2nd thoughts regarding the GPU temperatur; here is what I get from TP Fan control on a newly booted system that have been turned off over the night with indoor temperatur around 23 celcius:

CPU 41°C (0x78)
APS 27°C (0x79)
PCM 28°C (0x7a)
GPU 59°C (0x7b)
BAT 50°C (0x7c)
BAT 24°C (0x7e)
BUS 29°C (0xc0)
PCI 33°C (0xc1)
PWR 35°C (0xc2)

And I find it really interesting the the GPU goes of directly to 59°C! And here is what the reading says after the system been on for an hour after reading mail and surfing the net:

CPU 43°C (0x78)
APS 35°C (0x79)
PCM 36°C (0x7a)
GPU 63°C (0x7b)
BAT 50°C (0x7c)
BAT 31°C (0x7e)
BUS 41°C (0xc0)
PCI 43°C (0xc1)
PWR 41°C (0xc2)

and the GPU now jumped up to 63°C and last night I noticed that the GPU went up to around 69-71°C when checking some video clips!

agarza · #14 Post by **agarza** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 11:55 am

Why the T60 series the CPU and the APS remain cooler compared to a T4xp series laptop: My T41p readings after 1day of power-on usage:

Code: Select all

CPU 49°C (0x78)
APS 48°C (0x79)
PCM 35°C (0x7a)
GPU 52°C (0x7b)
BAT 36°C (0x7c)
BAT 32°C (0x7e)
BUS 0°C (0xc0)
PCI 0°C (0xc1)
PWR 0°C (0xc2)
XC3 0°C (0xc3)

khaverblad · #15 Post by **khaverblad** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:04 pm

Well, regarding the CPU I would guess it's since the T60 I ordered has Dual Core and uses less power than older Pentium mobile CPU's. So the question is what CPU does the T41p?

agarza · #16 Post by **agarza** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:32 pm

khaverblad wrote:Well, regarding the CPU I would guess it's since the T60 I ordered has Dual Core and uses less power than older Pentium mobile CPU's. So the question is what CPU does the T41p?

Mine is a Pentium M 745 "Dothan" running @ 1.8GHz.
Supposedly the Pentium M's do not heat too much compared to the older T30 Pentium4 M's.
What stock voltage your CPU uses?

khaverblad · #17 Post by **khaverblad** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 1:01 pm

Well, the Intel Core Duo T2400 667MHz FSB (31W) that the T60 has runs with 1.2V according to the specs I found. Here is a dump from CPU-Z:

agarza · #18 Post by **agarza** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 11:42 pm

You're running your CPu undervolted (multiplier set to 6x)
49C right now running at 600MHz (6x multiplier and 0.716V)

khaverblad · #19 Post by **khaverblad** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 2:44 am

What gfx chip do you have in your system; if it's Intel I doubt that you'll ever get the temperatur up to what ATI X1400 manages.

Also I called the Product Manager for ThinkPads at Lenovo Sweden today to check with him if this is normal to have a GPU running at 65 and he didn't know the values what it would run at, but he will check and get back on this. But, he clearly states that the fan shouldn't run all the time and asked if I have upgraded to the latest bios (did this during the weekend together with all other updates from Microsoft and Lenovo).

Also he asked me to check the system with PC-Doctor that didn't have anything to complain about, but during the system test I got following temperatures according to TP Fan Ctrl:

CPU 66°C (0x78)
APS 35°C (0x79)
PCM 37°C (0x7a)
GPU 75°C (0x7b)
BAT 50°C (0x7c)
BAT 27°C (0x7e)
BUS 47°C (0xc0)
PCI 50°C (0xc1)
PWR 58°C (0xc2)

As you might notice is that the GPU runs after 40% of the test up to 75°C - Ouch! That is high, I would call it a defect!

agarza · #20 Post by **agarza** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 7:19 am

I've a FireGL T2 128MB in my T41p. It easily reaches 55C after hours the laptop is kept on.

Try running Super Pi Software and do the 16M calculation and monitor your CPU temp and post those values here.

Weird thing is my CPU temp can't keep in the low 40's, instead it reaches 50C undervolted. Then when I switch to Max. Performance and do the Super Pi Calculation, the CPU only reaches 59C.

I don't have PC Doctor so I can't really compare your CPU readings to the ones Super-Pi do.

khaverblad · #21 Post by **khaverblad** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 10:07 am

Well, found Super Pi and will give it a test. I'm currently now scanning the system for virus and I noticed that the GPU value is still high so I would guess that the airflow or something isn't right:

CPU 56°C (0x78)
APS 36°C (0x79)
PCM 36°C (0x7a)
GPU 70°C (0x7b)
BAT 50°C (0x7c)
BAT 28°C (0x7e)
BUS 43°C (0xc0)
PCI 49°C (0xc1)
PWR 54°C (0xc2)

agarza · #22 Post by **agarza** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 10:10 am

Try Super Mi Mod:
http://www.techpowerup.com/downloads/126/mirrors.php

Good luck

khaverblad · #23 Post by **khaverblad** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 10:31 am

Here is that values after loop3 finished and as well scanning for virus on external USB-disk:

CPU 61°C (0x78)
APS 36°C (0x79)
PCM 36°C (0x7a)
GPU 72°C (0x7b)
BAT 50°C (0x7c)
BAT 28°C (0x7e)
BUS 45°C (0xc0)
PCI 49°C (0xc1)
PWR 56°C (0xc2)

and here is when Super Pi are doing the calculations (loop 10) and nothing else are running:

CPU 59°C (0x78)
APS 36°C (0x79)
PCM 37°C (0x7a)
GPU 72°C (0x7b)
BAT 50°C (0x7c)
BAT 28°C (0x7e)
BUS 47°C (0xc0)
PCI 50°C (0xc1)
PWR 56°C (0xc2)

During the next couple of loops it kind of keeps to above values. But what I cleary notice is that the higher the temperature on the CPU and GPU affects each other. and in this case the GPU isn't used but it still gets hot. So guess that the CPU and GPU are sharing heatpipes and this might not be the best idea.

agarza · #24 Post by **agarza** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 12:42 pm

The GPU heat is conducted through a heatpipe of the heatsink, the CPU heat goes through 2 heatpipes, this at least on my T41p machine.

I have not heard any succesfull stories about applying Arctic Silver 5 on the GPU and seeing the temps dropping, but If I had a T60 machine with the problem of the GPU overheating I will probably open the machine and see if there's good contact in between the GPU and the heatsink.
However, your CPU temp doing Super Pi test did not go higher.

But I still wonder why T60's CPUs run much more cooler than T4x series Dothan, Sonoma..

you could try to open your machine and see if there's good contact (GPU/Heatsink) and additionally you could order some AS5 and replace the thermal goop. Not sure if this would work on a T60 machine (since it's desing is different than a T4x series)

khaverblad · #25 Post by **khaverblad** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 1:00 pm

Well, I got the system 3 days ago, so I would rather go throught Lenovo to get them to fix it or replace the system before doing some own work on the cooling system

agarza · #26 Post by **agarza** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 2:36 pm

khaverblad wrote:Well, I got the system 3 days ago, so I would rather go throught to get them to fix it or replace the system before doing some own work on the cooling system

Oh OK. Weird thing about the GPU. I am almost sure by simple bending the heatsink a little should fix the heatsink touching the GPU and thus reducing temp.

Unil_Lausanne · #27 Post by **Unil_Lausanne** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 7:12 am

Hi guys, my equipment has the same problem, T60(2G,1024MB,100G,X1400), CPU fan is very noisy. I posted my laptop to IBM repairecenter, their engineers replaced and cleaned the fan, they were of the opinion that from a hardware point of view nothing else can be done to reduce the noise. But, the situation still the same...... I wonder if it is the quality problem or the problem with design of T6X series...... I got some datas from useing "tpcontrol" and found the temperature of GPU is too high, is it normal?
CPU 43°C (0x78)
APS 33°C (0x79)
PCM 37°C (0x7a)
GPU 71°C (0x7b)
BUS 36°C(0xc0)
PCI 43°C(0xc1)
PWR 42°C(0xc2)
Thanks.

agarza · #28 Post by **agarza** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 10:24 am

I guess the responsible of the GPU temp should be the thermal compound used. The only way to know is to open the machine, not for the heart-fainted people, replacing the GPU compound is worth it.

I think the T6x design compared to the T4x series is similar, but Lenovo (I think) made a change in the heatpipes: The T4x GPU's heat was transferred with one heatpipe that was pass very close to the 2 heatpipes that transfer the CPU Heat.
T6x GPU heatpipe did not intersect very close to the 2 heatpipes of the CPU.

In other words: The heat generated on a T6x GPU can't be handled thru one single heatpipe, this is because the CPU heat is lower than in T4x series. While in T4x series, the GPU heat is even invading the 2 CPU heatpipes, resulting in having a hotter CPU (i.e. the two components generated heat is shared, not the same in T6x)

My theory

khaverblad · #29 Post by **khaverblad** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 2:55 pm

I got an email from Lenovo Sweden that they have open and forwarded my issue to the lab, so let's see what they figure out. But, I highly recomend that more people would do the say and really complaint loud and clear.

Mugrunty · #30 Post by **Mugrunty** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 7:21 pm

Hello, guys. Thought i would just post my TP temp reading for you. I only have the x1300 though.
Computer has been on all day and I have been doing some internet surfing and playing some extremly old games...(kings quest 3 + 6)
I also have power manager at cpu adaptive.

CPU 45°C (0x78) fan is off now... comes on every so often at low.
APS 34°C (0x79) (2900-3000 RPM)
PCM 37°C (0x7a)
GPU 53°C (0x7b)
BAT 29°C (0x7c)
BAT 27°C (0x7e)
BUS 35°C (0xc0)
PCI 41°C (0xc1)
PWR 43°C (0xc2)

The fan will not shut off! - This can't be right?

The fan will not shut off! - This can't be right?

@_@

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