Are T40s and T41s preferred over T42s?

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silo · #1 Post by **silo** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 2:17 am

Been shopping eBay and there seem to be higher prices (relatively) for the T40s and T401s. Does that make sense and is it consensus around here that the T41 is the sweetspot of the T4x series?

christopher_wolf · #2 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 2:27 am

No sense in particular. I haven't seen them being preferred over the T42s. At which point, it only matters how good of a deal you can find for them.

schmaud · #3 Post by **schmaud** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 3:17 am

For what I have seen the T4x series are essentially identical,
the differences I know are listed at the end.

The fisrt T41/t40 are hitting three years and dropping out of warranty, so companies sell them and there are more on the market ( and maybe mor search calls in ebay)

I could imaging that people are willing to pay more to buy from a company.
I also think that there is a higher chance that people sell a computer which should be fine AND in waranty ( e.g. the T42) due to some misshap with the computer...

So for the same money and with similar specks I woudl buy
t42 , t41, t43, t40 given the t42 or t43 comes with a reasonable storry on why they are getting sold.

cheers

ralf

T40: slower memory connection, no HD protection
T41: Pentium M (Banias) with 1MB cache and 120 nm structures
T42: Pentium M 7*5 (Dothan) with 2MB cache and 90 nm structure
T43: Pentium M 7*0 (dothan) 1/3 faster bus, a bit higher power consumption

Th graphic units in the T40 are ussually a bit less powerfull than T41/2, the T43 is even better, but either dedicated or shared, depending on the model.

The T43 is a bit noisier/hotter and has a Sata/Pata interface which can cause some confusion. It also supports the PCexpress (?) extension cards.

Difference between Banias and Dothan: Dothan is slightly faster mainly due to the cache and needs slightly less power on full load ( due to smaller structures), and slightly more power in sleep /deep sleep (due to higher leak currents with the smaller structures)

agarza · #4 Post by **agarza** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 1:10 pm

I've noticed that new T41p are being sold a lot cheaper than the T42p's

I don't understand.
I've a T42p branded from the outside, but in fact is a T41p because of the 2373-GEG Mobo.
In fact my 2373-GEG mobo has a Dothan 1.8GHz 745 Processor.

I think mainly the differences in a T42 and a T43 is the faster memory bandwidth.

lithium726 · #5 Post by **lithium726** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 3:02 pm

There is definatly some incorrect info in this thread.

T40: 130nm Banias processors. i855PM chipset, MR7500 or MR9000, MFGL9000 for the -p variant. XGA or SXGA screens. PC2100 memory, wireless -b, 5400 or 7200RPM HDD's.

T41: 130nm Banias processors. i855PM b-stepping, MR7500 or MR9000, FGL T2 for the -p. XGA or SXGA, PC2700, wireless -b, HD protection, 5400 or 7200RPM HDD's

T42: 90nm Dothan processors. i855PM b-step, MR7500, 9600, FGL T2. PC2700, XGA, SXGA, UXGA screns. wireless a/b/g or b/g, HD protection, 5400 or 7200RPM HD's.

T43: 90nm Dothan processors on the 533FSB, i915PM or GM, intel graphics, MRx300, MFGL something for the -p variant. same wireless as the T42. PC2-4200, HD protection, 5400 or 7200RPM

They all had BT option and lots of the same features. The ones that were different are highligted.

The best ones are the T42 or the T43, depending on if you get a T43 with teh fan issue. At this point though, I would just get a T60 if you want a TP...

All of the mainboards are interchangable. Just becuase your maching has a board from a T41 doesnt make it a T41, it shipped with a dothan, that makes it a T42.

#6 Post by **underclocker** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:12 pm

One thing for sure, there is quite a bit of overlap from the T40 all the way to the T43. Just because one has a lower model number, doesn't mean it isn't faster or more feature rich.

In fact a typical T40 (1.5, 40gb 5400rpm, 512MB, CDRW-DVD) isn't much different than the base T43 (1.73, 40gb 5400rpm, 512MB, CDRW-DVD).

It actually might be hard to see a performance difference.

This is why the entry level pricing for all used T-series overlap so much.

The weakest link performance-wise was a T40 with a 1.3 cpu and a 30gb 4200rpm drive. You might want to shy away from this model or consider buying and upgrading the cpu and hd.

I suppose Wifi should be mentioned, too. Some had B, some B/G, some A/B, some A/B/G, some none at all. Easy and inexpensive upgrade either way, all have the same antennas.

tyito2000 · #7 Post by **tyito2000** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 7:29 pm

I feel that the T41 is the sweet spot of the series. The T40 has no HD protection. The T42's battery life is much shorter than the T41, using comparable sized batteries. The T43 has the same problems of the T20 series and runs too hot with short battery life too.

Thinkpaddict · #8 Post by **Thinkpaddict** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 9:50 pm

Actually, once you upgrade a T41(p) with a Dothan processor, the battery lifetime advantage vanishes. More importantly, whether a Dothan processor consumes more power than a Banias depends entirely on the CPU load. Banias processors consume more power under load, but less when the CPU is idle. So, if you encode a video for a few hours, you might find that you actually get more battery life from a Dothan (T42) than from a Banias (T41).

Also, if I remember correctly, the T41 had some hard drive problems (I think related to the first generation Hitachy 7K drives), but IIRC there was a patch to upgrade the firmware on this drives which solve those problems (random crashing of the hard drive.)

Personally, I prefer T41 and T42 over T40 and T43. No special reason.

w0qj · #9 Post by **w0qj** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 11:04 pm

I have a T42s (2373-K5H) and glad I did not buy T43.
-T42 was the first model that you can burn your own Product Recovery CD.

Avoid T43 at all costs if you can.

-you cannot easily install an off-the-shelf hard drive into T43 (need to flash HDD firmware, etc.) and why bother?

danny_isr · #10 Post by **danny_isr** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 6:40 am

w0qj wrote:

Avoid T43 at all costs if you can.

Ha Ha that's a good one.

mine doesn't run hot and noise fan is minimal or none.
heard the fan on the T60 runs all the time as well . so what's the difference. IMO from now on , get use to fan on all the time in more models to come ....

christopher_wolf · #11 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 2:44 pm

w0qj wrote: Avoid T43 at all costs if you can.

That probably wins the award for "Worst Advice I Have Heard"

Avoid it, indeed, if you want better perfomance and some additional connectivity options.

kstuart · #12 Post by **kstuart** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 5:24 pm

Be sure to think about what you want a faster CPU for.

I find that the T40 series has significant improvements over earlier models in terms of design, construction, etc.

However, faster CPUs use more power and thus have shorter battery life. In fact, after going to lengths to buy a laptop with a superfast CPU and GPU, people then go to lengths to run them at the lowest possible CPU and GPU speeds in order to save power.

I think it is hard to find a laptop with longer battery life than the T40 - as documented in IBM's battery life tests.

Dead1nside · #13 Post by **Dead1nside** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 6:39 pm

Thinkpaddict wrote:Actually, once you upgrade a T41(p) with a Dothan processor, the battery lifetime advantage vanishes. More importantly, whether a Dothan processor consumes more power than a Banias depends entirely on the CPU load. Banias processors consume more power under load, but less when the CPU is idle. So, if you encode a video for a few hours, you might find that you actually get more battery life from a Dothan (T42) than from a Banias (T41).

Also, if I remember correctly, the T41 had some hard drive problems (I think related to the first generation Hitachy 7K drives), but IIRC there was a patch to upgrade the firmware on this drives which solve those problems (random crashing of the hard drive.)

Personally, I prefer T41 and T42 over T40 and T43. No special reason.

So a 'Banias' at idle uses less power than a 'Dothan' at idle? I find that hard to believe. Considering Banias and Dothan alike idle the processor at 600Mhz using StepSpeed, and if the Dothan with its 90nm tech which uses less power for the same effect. Then that makes completely no sense. The Dothan if running at the same clock, if using less power. Will not drain as much power.

adamvrobinson · #14 Post by **adamvrobinson** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 9:47 pm

Well, I went for a IBM certified used t41p today. I was able to get employee pricing, so It came out to $xxx.xx shipped. Its the T2374GGU model, it is maxed out, 1.7, 512, 128mb fire gl, bluetooth, wireless, sxga etc. The warranty is only 3 months though, but this is not some fleabay t41, it is IBM/lenovo factory certified, they check everything and clean it so its like new.

I am mainly going to use it for Excel and Argus real estate finance software so It should to the trick, although I am a hardcore multi tasker so I might snag another 512 stick of ebay.

Now I was wondering if people have switched the screen from sxga, to an xga? and will this run windows aero? I sort of want my new laptop to be able to run the vista with aeroglass, but I am pretty sure I will just get a T60 widescreen in a few months or a year.

The IBM keyboard/ trackpoint was my selling point. I tried out some new computers and the keyboards SUCK! the HP/compaq/dell/toshiba/ESPECIALLY ACER keyboards are HORRIBLE.

Mod Edit: Please do not discuss EPP pricing as per forum rules.

#15 Post by **underclocker** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 10:04 pm

Congrats. $xxx is an incredible price. With those specs Vista should be no problem. Very sweet deal.

Temetka · #16 Post by **Temetka** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 3:44 am

So if I upgrade my 1.7GHz Banias in my T41p to a 1.8GHz Dothan I am going to lose battery life? Ok, how much battery life?

I really love the T41p I have now. Not having owned any other T4x series machine, I guess I am biased when I say the T41p is the sweet spot.

I too have the 2373-GGU model and it is maxed. 1.7GHz, 1GB RAM, 60GB HDD, Combo Drive, Bluetooth, 128MB FireGl TL2, 1400x1050 screen and now a soft dome trackpoint cap!

I really wanted a T42p but the price differences between it and the T41p made me go with the T41p. I am NOT disappointed with my decision. I can upgrade the CPU in a year or so and have a T42p, everything else being the same. I am going to add some Arctic Silver 5 this weekend. More as a preventative maintenance action than anything else.

Dead1nside · #17 Post by **Dead1nside** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 9:47 am

I've heard people say that Dothan uses more power too, but it doesn't make sense. It uses a smaller manufacturing process, and thus needs less voltage... which would equate to increased battery life.

Do you know how hard a CPU installation is? I'm just wandering as I was considering it on my T41p too.

Temetka · #18 Post by **Temetka** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 1:22 pm

From what I understand it's pretty easy.

Remove keyboard
Remove HSF
Remove CPU
Install CPU
Add Arctic Silver
Install HSF
Install Keyboard

Enjoy.

anthean · #19 Post by **anthean** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 3:00 pm

Dead1nside wrote: So a 'Banias' at idle uses less power than a 'Dothan' at idle? I find that hard to believe. Considering Banias and Dothan alike idle the processor at 600Mhz using StepSpeed, and if the Dothan with its 90nm tech which uses less power for the same effect. Then that makes completely no sense. The Dothan if running at the same clock, if using less power. Will not drain as much power.

Dead1nside wrote:I've heard people say that Dothan uses more power too, but it doesn't make sense. It uses a smaller manufacturing process, and thus needs less voltage... which would equate to increased battery life.

Dothan has 2 MB of L2 cache, compared to 1 MB in Banias. Running all those additional transistors does take energy.

Not only can Dothan run at considerably higher clock speeds than Banias, it is also more efficient due to the larger cache. It really is pretty miraculous that the power consumption is only a tad larger.

adamvrobinson · #20 Post by **adamvrobinson** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 4:01 pm

Ah so the artic silver is for cooling then I take it. So how much is a Dothan processor for the T41p then?

Are we talking something like 30 mins less battery time?

Dead1nside · #21 Post by **Dead1nside** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 5:22 pm

Ah, forgot about that. I thought mobile chips could deactivate their cache on the fly, as needs be. So I think it'd be worth it personally to change to "Dothan".

Thanks for the info.

anthean · #22 Post by **anthean** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 5:50 pm

adamvrobinson wrote:Are we talking something like 30 mins less battery time?

From what I've read, more like five minutes less. Really, the difference is at the "noise level". See:http://www.mobilityguru.com/2004/05/10/ ... age13.html

Temetka · #23 Post by **Temetka** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 4:42 am

Well that cinches it then. When prices are better, I will upgrade my 1.7GHz Banis CPU with a 2.0GHz or 2.16GHz Dothan chip.

dr_st · #24 Post by **dr_st** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 7:00 am

Temetka wrote:Well that cinches it then. When prices are better, I will upgrade my 1.7GHz Banis CPU with a 2.0GHz or 2.16GHz Dothan chip.

Remember that you need a 400MHz-bus Dothan, so you can only go with 2.0GHz or 2.1GHz. Not 2.13/2.26GHz.

Temetka · #25 Post by **Temetka** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 2:52 pm

dr_st wrote:
Temetka wrote:Well that cinches it then. When prices are better, I will upgrade my 1.7GHz Banis CPU with a 2.0GHz or 2.16GHz Dothan chip.
Remember that you need a 400MHz-bus Dothan, so you can only go with 2.0GHz or 2.1GHz. Not 2.13/2.26GHz.

Yeah I am aware of that 400MHz FSB restriction.

Prices are a tad high right now. I am hoping that they will fall a bit in the next 6 months to a year. I would like to pick up the 2.0GHz Dothan chip for my T41p. I would gain an extra 300MHz (1.7GHz now to 2.0GHz upgrade) and gain an extra 1MB of cache as well as a slightly more efficient core. So I lose 5 - 10 minutes of battery life. Whoop. That new speed increase coupled with a few other upgrades I am planning on in the same time frame:

upgrade from 1GB to 2GB of system RAM
7200RPM 80GB or larger HD
Dual layer ultrabay burner (no performance increase with this, maybe slightly faster application installs).

The goal:

To increase my Vista experience
To make XP scream!
To watch Linux run 'silly fast'

That means that minus a dual core setup, my laptop rocks.

I settled on the T41p because of price differences between it and the T42p on the outset. $850 on e-bay for the T41P and upwards of $1200 for a T42p. Considering the main difference is Dothan @ 2.0GHz (for the model's I was looking at), and not much else, the T41P won. Considering I can drop in a Dothan and essentially have a T42p, well that just rocks.

EDIT: Spelling and other stuff

Dead1nside · #26 Post by **Dead1nside** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 2:59 pm

To be honest, in my opinion. Dothan prices will just increase as they are outdated, I haven't seen a price drop on ebay, and I've been monitoring it. Sometimes you can get a good deal on the brand new ones though. Perhaps it's better just buying a new laptop, to be fair.

anthean · #27 Post by **anthean** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 6:18 pm

Anyone know when Intel intends to EOL Dothan ?

Temetka · #28 Post by **Temetka** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 10:49 pm

Dead1nside wrote:To be honest, in my opinion. Dothan prices will just increase as they are outdated, I haven't seen a price drop on ebay, and I've been monitoring it. Sometimes you can get a good deal on the brand new ones though. Perhaps it's better just buying a new laptop, to be fair.

I just bought this T41p. I have no intention of getting rid of it already. I intend to keep it for a few years atleast. I don't mind the cost because IMO, it will add to the longevity of the machine.

Sure some people feel differently. I see an upgrade path and I intend to make use of it.

Dead1nside · #29 Post by **Dead1nside** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 6:05 am

Just be aware that it's old tech, does it have a warranty? I would upgrade mine to a larger HDD and a Dothan, but I don't think there's any point opening her up and risking failure.

M|S|W · #30 Post by **M|S|W** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 9:20 am

Few days ago swapped my 1.5 Banias with 1.7 Dothan

Works perfectly and took only one hour to do this.

Are T40s and T41s preferred over T42s?

Are T40s and T41s preferred over T42s?

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