Why did IBM/Lenovo change the power adaptor's (rant)

[shiphen]

[censored]-it!

Why in *God's name* did IBM change the power connector (plug)
dimensions?

It turns out that NO ONE on the planet can supply a connector
that fits other than IBM. And for theirs you have to buy a
whole new power supply!

This is a DISGUSTING WASTE because I already have
two "universal" power adapter units - but none of the
6 connectors that come with it now fit.

* IBM
IBM refuse to sell just the Connectors. In fact you have
to buy the ENTIRE POWER SUPPLY in order do get the
connector. GBP59.00 each.

But what a *waste* of the world's resources!
I have two perfectly good Trust power supplies
and now I cant use either of them!

* TRUST
I have contacted Trust and they do not have ANY
connector that will fit the new Thinkpad T60.

The don't really seem to care much either.
They "MAY" develope one in "a couple
of months", there again they may NOT.
But I need a connector now!

* RS COMPONENTS
tell me it's a "non-standard" part can they cant
supply such a thing. The IBM has an external
barrel diameter or about 8MM whereas the
largest that they supply has diameter of about 6.2MM

* MAPLIN - same thing.

* MORGAN COMPUTER - cant help.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHHH !!!

How the heck are we supplied to "save the planet"
when manufacturers *deliberately* make incompatible
kit to force us to buy their spares.
This is the unacceptable face of capitalism.

IBM, shame on you - Al Gore would crucify you!!

And I am [censored] if I am going to reward IBM / LENOVO with
GBP 118 (59.00 x2 ) of my money.

Don't IBM/Lenovo realised that this kind of behaviour
*may* improve their short-term profits but it is *SERIOUSLY*
undermining their LONG-term prospects! This is PRECISELY
the sort of behaviour that is utterly untolerable to corporates.

IBM/Lenovo - STOP SCREWING US.
Or face the backlash.


Ship
Shiperton Henethe

p.s.
I refuse point-blank to buy any more accessories from those
b*stards at IBM/Lenovo, but does anyone have any ideas on how to build my own connector so that I can continue to use my
exising Universal power supply units?

Note from Moderator: I fixed your subject line. I realize you're upset (and rightfully so), but in the future, remember that some people follow this forum at work.

[jdhurst]

IBM changes plugs to prevent using the wrong IBM adapter with any given machine. My sense of posts in here is that is a more common problem (people wanting to use a spare adapter with their new ThinkPad).

So it really is up to the Universal suppliers to keep their plugs and adapters up-to-date.

I wish for a common ubiquitous supply as well.
... JD Hurst

[snife]

The reason for the change is simple - the systems required more power so the voltage was increased to 20V, if they didn't change the connector then people would plug the old adapters into the new systems and the new adapters into the old systems and then try to claim on warranty when things go bang.

If you want to blame somebody then blame the manufacturers of the 'universal' power supplies - this connector has been used on thinkpads for over a year now so they should really have updated the available tips by now imho.

[Cassirer]

go to e-bay and get a extension for a few dollars including shipping ... I had the same problem as I bought my machine in Europe and moved to Canada ... there are lots of them on the E-bay.

[GomJabbar]

I don't know why you have to bring God's name into your petty grievance with Lenovo. I find your post in poor taste.

IMO: You can afford a T60? You can afford a power brick.

[scillyisles]

Agreed - it is rather annoying that IBM/Lenovo have changed the power adapter to 20V. As a long time T series owner I have most of the power accessories and multiple adapters at home work etc. So the change to power adaptor is a real pain as it means not just buying one spare (which I already have done). I've not currently moved my work onto the T60P as I've not yet been able to get the airline/auto power adaptor which is a necessity if you travel a lot.

[GomJabbar]

I imagine the design change of the battery to a higher voltage was an improvement for power transfer. Generally speaking, higher voltages allow for smaller diameter wires to carry the same amount of power (wattage). That was the reason automobile batteries went from 6-volts to 12-volts [if anyone remembers that far back].

I can sympathize with your plight regarding the airline/auto adapter. I also agree that it would have been preferrable for Lenovo to use a connector, that while different than the T4x series, would still be available aftermarket.

[shiphen]

I don't know why you have to bring God's name into your petty grievance with Lenovo. I find your post in poor taste.

IMO: You can afford a T60? You can afford a power brick.

1. Okay if my mentioning of God offends you I sincerely apologise.

2. HOWEVER you STILL dont get it, do you?

This *IS* an ethical issue. That of ripping off your own customers by forcing them to buy completely unnecessary new appliances. And that of wasting the world's precious resources by forcing customers to throw out perfectly good kit.

Regarding the issue of changing connectors to allow for changed voltage - well if we are COMPLETELY sure that 20 volts not 15 is entirely necessary in order to get improved battery performance in the first place (I remain suspicious) then fine, but only up to a point. Why the HECK cant Lenovo use something ELSE standard. And even if they really, really cant use a connector that is standard, then why the HECK cant they supply just the connectors by themselves - or at worst a lead with the connector attached
(and we'd only need to throw out a spare lead - not an entire power brick).

Take me. I work in 3 different locations. I thus need 3 different power supplies. Lenovo are thus asking me to spend GBP 118.00 for absolutely no good reason.

But please dont get all "pious" on me, Matie, because if you think that if screwing up the plannet by forcing 10s of thousands of people to throw out perfectly good equipment is morally neutral - let alone consider the 80+Million people on this planet for whom GBP 118 would be their ENTIRE income for 3 months - then you need to have a long, LONG talk with your "God".

Lenovo, you need to appreciate the strength of feeling** that
you generating by these corporate/customer-unfriendly strategies
of yours. Or take the backlash when it comes and do not expect to be in business selling in 5-10 years time.


Ship
Shiperton Henethe

(**See usenet: ibm.ibmpc.thinkpad / comp.sys.laptops )

[GomJabbar]

Hmmm. Look what I found at http://groups.google.com/group/ibm.ibmpc.thinkpad/ . Last post in thread. Highlighting added. Note that the thread here was started after the post below was made.
Where can I get a power "connector" that will fit my new ThinkPad T60? (to my Trust 'universal' power supply)

From: ship - view profile
Date: Tues, Sep 26 2006 4:12 am

Steve Stone wrote:
> If I needed to do what you wanted to do and only had one power connector I
> would cut off the connector a few inches from the computer, and splice in an
> easily found generic connector that could then be hooked up to my power
> supply of choice.

> Yes it will void the warranty.

Steve you are a genius! Yes - I'll be look a but weird but I like it.
First I'll just vent my fury a little and flame Lenovo/IBM at
http://forum.thinkpads.com/

And then I'll buy some standard 'female' connectors and get
my soldering iron out.

Thanks - Nice one!

Ship
Shiperton Henethe

BTW, I'm not your "Matie". Go flame on usenet.

[JaneL]

First I'll just vent my fury a little and flame Lenovo/IBM at
http://forum.thinkpads.com/

Well, that might have been effective if Lenovo or IBM actually owned this forum. I'm not sure why you're yelling at us, though. For the most part, we're just users like yourself, and the forum itself is owned by Bill Morrow. Check the top of the page you're reading right now.

We don't mind a bit of ranting about inane design, lack of support, quality issues, etc here, but please make sure you have the right audience before directing your comments at any forum members here particularly the mod staff.

To the other mods, I unlocked the thread since I would like to hear the OP's response (and apology to GJ).

[jdhurst]

@shiphen - May I suggest to remain reasonable. As Nonny points out, we here are just users. I think we have responded reasonably and not piously.

I looked at a couple of the vendors you pointed to. I only found an aftermarket adapter at Trust. I prefer to use IBM adapters because they work well with IBM computers. I have read problem stories about the iGo Juice adapters and others. I would not like to take a chance at damaging my computer by using an aftermarket adapter (but then, that is also just me).

If I were in your shoes (and I *do* have multiple clients - more sites than you), I would just carry around one adapter in my bag with the laptop until a new tip comes out in a couple of months. I carry my power brick and AC cord with my computer wherever I go.

... JD Hurst

[greynolds]

2. HOWEVER you STILL dont get it, do you?

This *IS* an ethical issue. That of ripping off your own customers by forcing them to buy completely unnecessary new appliances. And that of wasting the world's precious resources by forcing customers to throw out perfectly good kit.

No one is forcing anyone to throw anything away. Why not sell the old stuff on ebay (or elsewhere) to someone else who still has a use for it then buy what you need? If you're as concerned about the environment as you claim to be, then this should have been the obvious solution to your "problem".

Lenovo, you need to appreciate the strength of feeling** that
you generating by these corporate/customer-unfriendly strategies
of yours. Or take the backlash when it comes and do not expect to be in business selling in 5-10 years time.

I'm sure Lenovo will be doing just fine in 5-10 years even if they change the power adapter plug again in a few years when they decide to up the voltage to 25 volts.

[JohnDrake]

PLEASE just use the power adapters that come from the manufacturer...especially with the battery issues everyone is running into...

Not worth it to screw with your warranty. Plus, some 3rd party chargers put out dirty current...seen it interfere with fingerprint readers, and ethernet connections.

Once had one interfere with a firmware update...until I pulled it, and put on a Lenovo charger.

This is penny-wise and pound foolish.

[christopher_wolf]

seen it interfere with fingerprint readers, and ethernet connections.

Once had one interfere with a firmware update...until I pulled it, and put on a Lenovo charger.

This is penny-wise and pound foolish.

I would like to note that I have seen 3rd party power adapters do this as well. Not only did they interfere with the FPR, and one even borked a BIOS flash into a hang, but they can also cause problems with the power management causing the OS to get confused as to whether or not it is on battery or AC line power. Saw it happen on a Dell too, except it was between two identical, officially supported (which is Dell's idea of a joke), Dell adapters.

Also, back on track, it is an entirely different chipset in the Thinkpad. What? You want to use a T20 power adapter for a T43 Thinkpad? Same difference, same absurdity. I am happy enough that it crosses Thinkpad model lines horizontally (use a T4X for an X4X, etc). Either it is this or hear people complain/whine/moan that, because the power adapter is too general/old, that it can't support the newer chipset technology in the T6X Thinkpad Series.

[tpribors]

I got my daughter a Z60. (She had it for almost a month before she brought it out so I could play with it, dang her!).

It uses the same power brick as my T60.

[christopher_wolf]

I got my daughter a Z60. (She had it for almost a month before she brought it out so I could play with it, dang her!).

It uses the same power brick as my T60.

Just a note; I know myself, and many others, that would tend to value this kind of horizontal compatbility, much like the XTRA adapters, much more so than the power adapter fitting a Z60 and then a, say, Z70.

It came in handy the several times my friends up from SoCal forgot the chargers for their X Series systems; so I just used the ones for my T43 and some Ts I was working on.

[BillMorrow]

dear shiphen...

first, ibm/lenovo did NOT change the AC adapter plug JUST to use up resources..
nor to frustrate you or any other user..
others here have explained the reason..

stop complaining about what is REALLY quite a trivial issue..
order a few extra AC adapters from lenovo or a business partner and ship them to the UK..

about that plug..
typically, ibm would, in the past, order the complete output from a manufacturer, of a specific part with the caveat that that manufacturer can not sell that same part to anyone else for a set period..
three months or six months..?
whatever time period, sooner or later that plug will show up..
meanwhile why torture yourself over such a trivial issue.. ?

relax and direct your worrying to greenhouse gases, overdevelopment or the source of most all problems world wide, overpopulation..!

[claudeo]

There is something else about those new adapters. My 14 inch T60 came with the 65W adapter. The power management screen shows that the adapter plugged in is the 65W adapter. So, there is some signaling or measurement going on. That would complicate things with a third party adapter.

I do agree that is is very annoying, especially for road warriors who may have an investment in other power supplies or who might find themselves in need of a quick replacement, and since the power management system design and specs are undocumented. DC is DC is DC -- or at least it should be.

[BillMorrow]

DC is DC is DC -- or at least it should be.

yes it should be but it rarely IS unless the DC is coming from a car battery (or the like)..
those AC adapters are amazing little things..
little switching power supplies that deliver clean power in a very small package for years and years..

DC is not always just DC, sometimes there are ripples that can confuse the device being powered when the DC is coming from a cheap power supply..

[christopher_wolf]

DC is not always just DC, sometimes there are ripples that can confuse the device being powered when the DC is coming from a cheap power supply..

Bill is right; I hate to bring up the darker side of this, but such variations can actually begin to damage most complex electronics.
Not only that, but they can lock up microcontroller circuits due to contention and unexpected fluctuations. I have had systems refuse to boot because of this and it can be *very* painful to tease out the problem. The AC adapters are amazing little because they have to be. A major weakpoint of all computers and electronics is, very simply, the power supply. Massive amounts of switches that have to work the right way at exactly the right time could all come to a grinding halt if a logic level is forced too high for even a microsecond.

[lophiomys]

The reason for the change is simple - the systems required more power so the voltage was increased to 20V,
... SNIP

"... the systems require more power ..."
I personally do not want to take it in that a new system needs to
draw more power, even if it is faster.

Real innovation - and that is what I expect from a Thinkpad -
would have a more efficient energy consumption to performance ratio
for the whole system.
That means even if faster, or even if more features,
then at least no increase in power consumption.
As a positive side effect the envisaged Thinkpad would stay cool and quiet
and the battery would last longer, the AC adapters stay the same
and everybody's happy.

[greynolds]

"... the systems require more power ..."
I personally do not want to take it in that a new system needs to
draw more power, even if it is faster.

Real innovation - and that is what I expect from a Thinkpad -
would have a more efficient energy consumption to performance ratio
for the whole system.
That means even if faster, or even if more features,
then at least no increase in power consumption.
As a positive side effect the envisaged Thinkpad would stay cool and quiet
and the battery would last longer, the AC adapters stay the same
and everybody's happy.

Assuming that a voltage increase equates to more power being consumed is a faulty assumption. Let's assume that an older system ran off of 10 volts and drew 100 watts - this translates to a 10 amp draw (Volts * Amps = Watts). Now lets assume that a newer system runs off of 20 volts and draws 100 watts - this translates to a 5 amp draw. The advantage of the 20 volt system (as was stated above) is that it allows the use of thinner gauge wire due to the reduced amperage going through it. One would have to examine the actual wattage being consumed by an older and newer system to figure out if more power is being used or not. My guess is that the total power draw is probably pretty close and if I were to bet on it, I'd guess the newer system would consume less power.

[lophiomys]

@greynolds

More Watt, not less Ampere nor thinner wires!

T40 AC Adapter: DC OUTPUT 16V at 4.5A ... 72W (also in my R51, nearly hot)

T60 AC Adapter: DC OUTPUT 20V at 4.5A ... 90W
http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... MIGR-61193

By the way the smart Lenovo employee who presented the
T60 Thinkpads at the Lenovo Express Event in Vienna
stated clearly that the new T60-line would use more power.

And the ampereage of car battries is way higher than 4.5h,
i.e. 25A continuous and peaks up to 100A for a 12V 40Ah Battery.
That's a different playground. See Wikipedia.

[GomJabbar]

Lenovo uses Intel CPU's, Chipsets, and other components. They also use ATI graphics adapters in certain models. And what about the displays? You can't get something for nothing. Lenovo only buys these chips to use in their systems. Other laptop makers using the same chips will have similar issues.

Sometimes an improvement in technology will yield more performance with the same or less power, but this does not happen often, and it certainly is not going to happen with every new model that comes to market. Generally speaking, if you want to have more processing power, then you've got to pay the piper in the form of: increased heat, reduced battery life, and higher wattage chargers.

[bigtiger]

relax and direct your worrying to greenhouse gases, overdevelopment or the source of most all problems world wide, overpopulation..!

I like the above statement.

Well, I think if there is a reason, which has been stated repeatedly above, Lenovo should change the tip to avoid accidental plugin of the wrong power supply.

As song as Lenovo use the same power supply for the same line of products, I think it should be fine.

If you are complaining about thinkpad, go check out dell laptops. Dell does not design anything. They just buy from other laptop makers. And the power supply varies significantly. I was really surprised when I come from Dell to thinkpad--geez, many laptops share the same adapters.

[zzyss]

Who's throwing away their old adapters? It's the person doing the chucking that's damaging the environment, i.e. YOU. When I went from my T40 to T60p, I simply sold my old adapters on eBay at a decent price so that some other person would benefit from it. That's my bit done for the environment <claps dust from hands>.

Then as luck would have it (or maybe even God, since He has already been invoked in this thread) Lenovo had a 40% discount on Batteries and Adapters, which is when I picked up my second adapter.

Gee... now that wasn't so hard.

[chrisnyc]

Could someone please explain some of the terminology used in this topic -- power supply, tip, adapter, etc.

The "power supply" for any notebook computer I've had includes two parts : the "tip" that plugs into the back of the computer, which is attached to the "brick"; then a separate cord one end of which connects to the brick and the other end which plugs into the wall or to your surge protector.

Since I have only two places where I carry and use my notebook, I purchase an extra complete power supply (or two) when I buy my notebook, and just leave a complete power supply at each location; I factor this into the cost of the computer.

What part exactly is a "universal power supply" ? Correct me if I'm wrong -- I'm at a desktop computer right now -- but the tip that plugs into the back of the notebook is physically connected to the brick, so it's all basically one piece, and different from model to model. I don't understand how you could have a different "tip", you'd need the whole brick.

My T42 and Z60M have completely different power supplies and are different wattages (72W and 90W I think) and the power supplies are completely different. I was actually pleased when I saw that the part that plugs into the back of the notebook is physically different for each power supply; that way I won't accidentally plug the wrong one in.

I have noticed a wide variation on pricing of these power supplies. Lenovo's run around $50 or so ; Dell's seem to vary depending on model and specials, sometimes an extra one $30 sometimes $50. I guess they make a big profit on these.

Thanks for any further clarfication on this.

[carbon_unit]

What part exactly is a "universal power supply" ? Correct me if I'm wrong -- I'm at a desktop computer right now -- but the tip that plugs into the back of the notebook is physically connected to the brick, so it's all basically one piece, and different from model to model. I don't understand how you could have a different "tip", you'd need the whole brick.

Thanks for any further clarfication on this.

Here is an example:
http://www.bixnet.com/19vunacpoadf.html

Disclaimer, I do not recommend using this product! It is just an example and was the first hit with google.

[chrisnyc]

Thanks, Carbon Unit, I kind of envisoned something like that after I submitted my post.

I personally would prefer to use the 'proprietary' power supply that comes with each unit.

Even with the universal supply, you'd still have to have one at each location you use the notebook, or else you'd have to carry it with you. You would save money but I think it's worth buying a dedicated power supply for each different computer.

Another advantage would be cutting down on the bulk and clutter of all those power bricks. But it really wouldn't make a dent in that, because just about EVERYTHING has one of those power bricks -- speakers, modems, printers, other peripherals, etc, etc.

[Mark_Venture]

T40 AC Adapter: DC OUTPUT 16V at 4.5A ... 72W (also in my R51, nearly hot)

T60 AC Adapter: DC OUTPUT 20V at 4.5A ... 90W
http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... MIGR-61193

Ok, yeah, the adapters I've used with my T20 thru T41 are marked DC Output 16V at 4.5A..

But the one that came with my new T60 (has P/N 92P1156 FRU 92P1115) is marked with 65w 20V in the upper right.. and Output 20v 3.25A ???

shiphen, While I understand this different adapter to be a problem.. as I have about 5 extra AC adpaters for my T20, T40 and T41... which were all the same... now my T60 uses something different and I only have 1 unless I buy more...

But I do remember when the T20's came out.. the connector on the end was the SAME as the connector on the 600x... and people/compaines continued to use the 600x adapters with the T20 and above... Problem was... the 600x adapters put out less power and was shortening the life of the laptop's battery.

I for one... would rather have the "plug" changed so that I can use only the proper adapter when it meant to prevent some kind of issues to the equipment...