T22 Battery Will not Charge

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Wrangler99 · #1 Post by **Wrangler99** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 4:29 pm

I have a t22 and I recently bought a new battery for it. The Battery that I bought is an original battery from IBM. I put the battery in and it will hold the charge not go below what it has in it but it will not charge it past what it came with. I tried updating the BIOS settings like I read online to doand it did nothing. Mayb be I blew a fuse? How could I check it? Any other suggestions are appreciated. Thanks, Joe.

AbsoluteRaleigh · #2 Post by **AbsoluteRaleigh** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 4:42 pm

What will it charge to? 97%?

Wrangler99 · #3 Post by **Wrangler99** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 5:10 pm

It will stay at 80% what the new battery came with. My other battery had 0-1% left and would stay liek that when connected on AC. It will not charge.

#4 Post by **rkawakami** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 5:39 pm

Wrangler99 wrote:Mayb be I blew a fuse? How could I check it?

If the laptop can be powered by the battery alone, then you do not have a fuse problem. I believe that each power input source (DC power jack, the main battery bay and the Ultrabay) has its own fuse protection. To check them you have to remove the motherboard from the case and use a multimeter to measure continuity on the fuses.

Wrangler99 · #5 Post by **Wrangler99** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 5:51 pm

I see. But you said that if it runs on battery alone it is not a fuse problem. Do you know why the battery will not charge?...

#6 Post by **rkawakami** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 6:40 pm

Wrangler99 wrote:Do you know why the battery will not charge?...

Harder question to answer... Could be a problem with one (or more) of the components on the motherboard or a bad battery pack. There was a problem similar to yours a few threads back. Here it is:

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=31162

Since schematics do not appear to be publicly available it would be hard to figure out what the problem is unless you open up the laptop and find an obviously damaged part.

Wrangler99 · #7 Post by **Wrangler99** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 6:46 pm

If i get a new motherboard it may fix it?

#8 Post by **rkawakami** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 7:13 pm

Wrangler99 wrote:If i get a new motherboard it may fix it?

As long as your AC adapter is working properly (and it sounds like it is), then yes it should. However, you probably should get some guarantee that the replacement board actually works and you have some period of time to check it out. Before taking that step however, I would try the following:

Install the 'new' battery into another laptop to see if it operates the same way.

If it does then return the battery as it would appear that the intelligent charging circuit is not operating properly or the cells are not normal.

If it charges/discharges like a normal battery should, replace the motherboard.

AbsoluteRaleigh · #9 Post by **AbsoluteRaleigh** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 9:59 pm

Wrangler99 wrote:It will stay at 80% what the new battery came with. My other battery had 0-1% left and would stay liek that when connected on AC. It will not charge.

So if you run on the battery until it is all the way down to 0% and then recharge it, it only gets to 80%. Is that what you are saying? If so, the battery needs to be replaced.

Wrangler99 · #10 Post by **Wrangler99** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:35 pm

no sorry, the battery came iwth 80% on it and it will hold the 80% charge on AC and will not get above or below 80%. On my other battery it will ahve a 0-1% charge and not go above it. The 80% battery is brand new.

#11 Post by **rkawakami** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:57 pm

Okay, so to recap...

Original 1% battery does not appear to charge at all.
"New" IBM battery received at 80% charge and has stayed there when the laptop is operated with the AC charger.
Battery alone runs the laptop.
AC adapter alone runs the laptop (this one I'm assuming since you have not explicity stated this fact).

Some more questions:

How long have you left the AC adapter connected to the turned off laptop?
Does the green/orange battery charging LED light up when you do that?
Do you have the IBM Battery Maximizer utility installed? If not, it is available from here.
What does the Maximizer utility report under the "Battery Information/Status Detail" tab?

Wrangler99 · #12 Post by **Wrangler99** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 12:30 am

Some more questions:

How long have you left the AC adapter connected to the turned off laptop?
My laptop does not really get turned off for long. It is usually always running.

Does the green/orange battery charging LED light up when you do that?
The yellow and green lights are both lite up on both sides of the moon.

Do you have the IBM Battery Maximizer utility installed? If not, it is available from here.
Yes, I recently installed this.

What does the Maximizer utility report under the "Battery Information/Status Detail" tab?
Links to the pictures:
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y224/r ... ttery2.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y224/r ... ttery3.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y224/r ... ttery4.jpg

#13 Post by **rkawakami** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 12:46 am

Okay, looking at the first picture (battery2.jpg) you can see that the "current" bar graph is "zero". This indicates that the software does not read any current being supplied to the battery. The second picture (battery3.jpg) says that the full charge capacity should be 45Wh (watt-hours) and that the battery only has 35Wh, thus the 78% charge level. That picture also shows that the cycle count is 1 (brand new battery).

What you may have here is simply a battery that has not been discharged enough to warrant a charge. Typically you must cycle rechargeable batteries a couple of times when you first receive it in order to let the system calibrate itself. The (small) danger in doing this discharge cycle is that if there is really something wrong with your motherboard that is causing the battery not to recharge, then you will temporarily lose some of your battery's capacity.

At this point I would say try unplugging the AC adapter and let the battery capacity decrease to 50% and then plug the charger back in and see what the Battery Maximizer utility says.

(edit: I just re-read your last response... You say that you have both a yellow and a green light? Yellow on the left and green on the right? If so, the yellow light indicates that the system detects that the battery needs charging.)

Wrangler99 · #14 Post by **Wrangler99** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 7:43 am

Ok, so I should still disconnect the AC cord and let it run the battery down to 50% then see what happens?

#15 Post by **rkawakami** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 9:22 am

Yup. As also recommended in the Hardware Maintenance Manual:

HMM wrote:"To check whether the battery charges properly during operation, use a discharged battery pack or a battery pack that has less than 50% of the total power remaining when installed in the computer."

Wrangler99 · #16 Post by **Wrangler99** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 9:23 am

Well i discharged the battery until 48%. I plugged the AC power back in and now it just stays at 48%. When i go into the battery information it says Battery 1 Charging w/ a current of 0.00A. Voltage is 11.34 and wattage is 0.00W. Should I completly discharge it to about 0%? or do something else? Also, I think I did the correct BIOS update. How could I make sure?

tom_k · #17 Post by **tom_k** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 10:07 am

my T23 board shows the same symptom,
(bought it off ebay knowing this)
It runs well on ac and/or battery but does not charge ,
either main or ultrabay batteries.

unfortunately, i don`t know a solution :( ,
also not for another T21 which runs only on battery power.

i must admit that i have not enough time to "explore" the complete boards
by comparing u r i etc , but if you show or tell me some specific points
i would be glad to do so and post my results.

regards tom_k

#18 Post by **rkawakami** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 10:26 am

Wrangler99 wrote:Should I completly discharge it to about 0%? or do something else?

Based upon that bit of information, I would not discharge the battery any further. It appears to me to be a problem with the internal charging circuitry. As I've said before, since schematics are not available (AFAIK), it would be very difficult to determine what the problem is. It still may be a simple matter of a blown fuse (if there indeed is a separate one protecting the charging circuit) or something more serious (a defective voltage regulator, for example). As is usual in these types of cases, a motherboard replacement is probably the best course of action.

Wrangler99 wrote:Also, I think I did the correct BIOS update. How could I make sure?

Best way I know of is to access the BIOS settings and it should be displayed there. If you also have the IBM Configuration utility, it's available in one of the System Information tabs.

#19 Post by **rkawakami** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 10:33 am

tom_k wrote:...also not for another T21 which runs only on battery power.

Mostly likely a blown fuse. Could also be a problem with the DC power jack, which is easily replaceable. I have a T23 that had that same problem (battery alone was okay, AC adapter would not power or charge system) and it turned out to be a 7A fuse. Which is not surprising since after I replaced the fuse, the system now emits a burning smell after a few minutes so there's still more work to be done...

Wrangler99 · #20 Post by **Wrangler99** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 11:37 am

so first I should buy a new AC power supply and see it that works. If that does not fix it then there is a blown fuse.

tom_k · #21 Post by **tom_k** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 12:20 pm

@rkawakami
thanks for the hints
connector and subboard are ok , i even;)
checked a dozen points or so
around the connector to confirm that
the electrons reach the board , they do ;)
think this board will have to wait `til a long, dark + cold winter evening comes

@Wrangler99
In my opinion its waisting money ,
your power supply seems to work well
Did you check voltage output ? Its usually about 16.5V

#22 Post by **rkawakami** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 12:23 pm

Wrangler99 wrote:so first I should buy a new AC power supply and see it that works. If that does not fix it then there is a blown fuse.

Ah, probably not. My last post was in response to tom_k's comment about his T21.

In my last post to you (four posts up from this one), I said that your problem appears to be on the motherboard. In reference to the fuse in that posting, I am guessing that there may be a fuse on the motherboard which protects the charging circuit from providing too much current to the battery. If there indeed is such a fuse, you would have to find it, test it, and if bad, find a suitable replacement. It may not be worth the effort if you do not have the correct tools (multimeter, soldering iron, etc.) or the desire to poke around the motherboard. In that case, the easiest (though not cheapest) method of fixing the problem is a motherboard swap.

In reference to the "voltage regulator" that I talked about, I mean the one that is on the motherboard. It could either be a single integrated circuit or several components which make up the charging circuit that has gone bad. In any event, identifying those bad components would be much more difficult than finding a bad fuse.

Since your AC adapter seems to be operating correctly, providing enough power to run the laptop, it should also be able to charge the battery when the system is off. You had indicated earlier that the LED to the left of the "moon" LED is yellow/orange. That is the system indicator that the battery is in need of a charge. So at least that part of the laptop is working correctly. It wouldn't hurt to try a different AC adapter (they're a lot cheaper than a motherboard!), but at this point I don't think that it is the source of your problem.

Sorry if I got you confused.

Wrangler99 · #23 Post by **Wrangler99** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 12:18 am

hmmmm well this is odd. I have had a battery in the ultr bay now for the past 4 or 5 days and it would recognize that it was there but nto charge it. Today it did not recognize that any battery was there so i took the battery from the bottom out (not from the ultra bay) and put it back in. When I put the battery back in the bottom the ultra bay one started to charge. Why would the one in the ultra bay charge but the main one not?

Wrangler99 · #24 Post by **Wrangler99** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 10:13 pm

bump....

jruschme · #25 Post by **jruschme** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 8:27 am

I may have missed this point, so excuse what may be a redundant question...

If you have only the main (bottom) battery in, without the one in the UltraBay, does it charge?

As for why the UltraBay battery will only charge without the main battery, I'd probably guess that the charging circuitry will not start charging the UltraBay battery until the main battery is charged (if one is there). Unfortunately, you seem to have the problem that the main battery is not charging, for some reason.

tom_k · #26 Post by **tom_k** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 11:17 am

Hello

No answers , only facts for new questions ! ;)

I tested the my "ill" T23 whether it does charge the ultrabay
battery with the same procedure .
Powered it with main + ultrabay battery inside, then removed the main and inserted it again,
with detailed battery information on screen.
When removing the main, battery-info showed no reaction, all the time 0.00A 11.37V = 0.00W
When inserting the main battery again,
(doing this with a functioning T21 the current usually goes up above 3A at constant voltage )
the machine estimated a "charge completion time" of 48 hours for less than a second ,
then the 48:00 disappeared, and the box was empty as usual.
Watching battery info for 1h or so (no, not all the time :) ,
it seemed that sometimes there is minimal current of 0.01 ampere,
but in fact the unltrabay battery isnt charged at all. (mathematical error?)
So i powered it down while it was still trying to load the ultrabay battery

That was an hour ago, the "ill" T23 did stay on the port replicator
the whole time, attached to AC.
Just powered it up again + status detail shows that its "charging" (again with 0.00A)
the main battery !

@Wrangler99
Can you repeat loading the 2nd battery in your T23 by that way , or was it just by chance ?

regards tom

Wrangler99 · #27 Post by **Wrangler99** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 11:47 am

I was on my computer and then the battery maximiser thing on the task bar showed no abttery at all installed. I took the main one out and put it back in and then the ultrabay started to charge.

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