RE: Dishonest Sellers

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ronbo613 · #1 Post by **ronbo613** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 6:36 pm

I've bought a couple things here and I check what's for sale every time I check in, but today was the first time I noticed that the "Positive Feedback for Fair Traders" has over 120 posts and the "Negative Feedback for Traders" has zero.
That's great.

pianowizard · #2 Post by **pianowizard** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 6:49 pm

I think there are some dishonest buyers though. Perhaps they aren't intentionally dishonest, but they certainly are irresponsible. For example, they would say "Yes I want to buy your laptop, I will send you a money order next Monday", But they never send it, and the seller doesn't know whether or not to keep waiting for his/her money order or sell the laptop to someone else.

#3 Post by **Kyocera** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 8:33 pm

Pianowizard, I'll send you a money order tommorrow for your 600e, .......no seriously.

Website · #4 Post by **tfflivemb2** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 8:43 pm

Kyocera wrote:Pianowizard, I'll send you a money order tommorrow for your 600e, .......no seriously.

I'll vouch for Kyocera in a heartbeat, as a buyer, since I sold him two 600 series Thinkpads...each with money orders. EXCELLENT.

dsigma6 · #5 Post by **dsigma6** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 8:44 pm

I've had a couple experiences buying on here where I felt like the seller wasn't quite being honest ("trusted" seller)...But I'm not about to spoil a member's reputation over little stuff. The way I see it, it's like leaving negative feedback on eBay- Even if you did nothing wrong, you'll face retaliation.

I don't think the poor grammar in the negative feedback thread encourages anyone either.

Mark me down for the 600E too pianowizard.

#6 Post by **Kyocera** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 8:46 pm

Muchos Gracias Stephan

Dan, you can vouch for me too, right...... old buddy???

dsigma6 · #7 Post by **dsigma6** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 8:48 pm

Kyocera wrote:Dan, you can vouch for me too, right...... old buddy???

But of course! The positive attitude you had when USPS was slow in getting a "priority" package to you really showed what a good and understanding person/buyer/member you are.

#8 Post by **Kyocera** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 8:51 pm

Thanks!

#9 Post by **AlphaKilo470** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 8:54 pm

dsigma6 wrote:he positive attitude you had when USPS was slow in getting a "priority" package to you really showed what a good and understanding person/buyer/member you are.

Don't get me started. USPS LOST a $650 pice of computer equipment I sold back in August and the claim I filled in September got lost so I had to re-file and now if I get [censored] lucky and have a best case situation, I'll have the money they owe me by late November or early December. Now, for even the most menial and worthless items, I go strictly with UPS.

dsigma6 · #10 Post by **dsigma6** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 9:01 pm

Some luck you've got, huh Alex? I forgot all about that (easy for me to do!) experience. I wish you a happy refund before 2007.

pianowizard · #11 Post by **pianowizard** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 10:30 pm

Kyocera wrote:Pianowizard, I'll send you a money order tommorrow for your 600e, .......no seriously.

Okay, I will assume you are serious here. Thanks for the offer, but I will need to keep it for use in an experiment (presenting light stimuli to retinas) until around mid November. I will make it available again then. Sorry about that.

christopher_wolf · #12 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 1:00 am

pianowizard wrote:
Kyocera wrote: I will need to keep it for use in an experiment (presenting light stimuli to retinas) until around mid November.

*perks up*

Need any help with that? Just give me a call or something.

Also if you need some ECG leads or...yeah, stuff like that.

Dimitri_P · #13 Post by **Dimitri_P** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 3:32 am

AlphaKilo470 wrote:
dsigma6 wrote:he positive attitude you had when USPS was slow in getting a "priority" package to you really showed what a good and understanding person/buyer/member you are.
Don't get me started. USPS LOST a $650 pice of computer equipment I sold back in August and the claim I filled in September got lost so I had to re-file and now if I get [censored] lucky and have a best case situation, I'll have the money they owe me by late November or early December. Now, for even the most menial and worthless items, I go strictly with UPS.

People sorry, don't use USPS to send anything but regular mail. I had a laptop shipped to me, and the box arrived empty. The weight on the box indicated that the lasptop wa sthere when it was shipped

One other thing - it is NEXT TO IMPOSSIBLE to get insurance money from USPS

Conclusion - don't be cheapos and send by carriers

I always ship UPS, even if it is $5 item

Cheers

dsigma6 · #14 Post by **dsigma6** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 7:32 am

Dimitri_P wrote:don't be cheapos and send by carriers

That's a bit narrow minded though, isn't it? If I send USPS, maybe it's to keep the costs down, but for the purpose of selling an item at a fair price. If a buyer has such a problem with the postal service, they can request a different carrier and not get such a good deal.

Dimitri_P · #15 Post by **Dimitri_P** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 11:06 am

Well, use USPS, if you want to risk loosing so much $ in item lost, versus saving $5-10...

On a broad scale, offering usps, in order to discount $10 on a relatively cheap item <100, pays off, more expensive, doesn't...

Or "still offer USPS, but send by carrier and "eat" the cost, but buy yourself a piece of mind that there will be no problems.

dsigma6 · #16 Post by **dsigma6** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 11:29 am

That makes sense. The fact that USPS handles close to 212 billion pieces of mail per year VS. UPS at about 4 billion pieces certainly plays into it.

In my eBay selling experience (about 140 transactions), I have never had a lost package. Most of my positive feedback came from fast shipping, which can only be attributed to the postal service.

#17 Post by **Kyocera** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 11:39 am

I think the horror stories run the gambit of shipping vendors.

ronbo613 · #18 Post by **ronbo613** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 12:00 pm

I've never bought anything off eBay. I was thinking about buying a battery for my T30, it's only $40, but I don't know, I'm still thinking about it. I've bought a couple things here, the people have been really cool, makes life a lot easier.
In my business, I ship expensive camera gear all over the place. I would not trust the USPS to ship anything of value. The USPS has lost a number of packages sent to and from my business, which has both a PO Box(that I've had for more than 20 years) and an office address(you can see the Post Office from my front door). A lot depends on your location. In my experience with the Post Office, most lost mail is lost at the local Post Office, not in transit between them. If you live in a smaller city you're less likely to have something lost.
UPS used to be my first choice in shipping, it seems they've kind of gone downhill a little lately. Most of the time I use FedEx. Being able to ship from Kinkos locations is a big help.
The only reason to use the USPS is cost. Shipping has gotten very expensive due to fuel costs, the Post Office is the cheapest.

dsigma6 · #19 Post by **dsigma6** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 1:54 pm

Kyocera wrote:I think the horror stories run the gambit of shipping vendors.

Gamut?

#20 Post by **BillMorrow** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 7:28 pm

1. Kyocera DOES mean GAMUT..

2. Dimitri_P.. USPS is "more better" than UPS overall..
try and get insurance $$ from UPS and you will learn new tricks in how to keep from paying off. I sent a box via FedEx to italy.. Arrived empty.. theft happens, use the "BIOHAZARD" label on the parcel next time..

3. bontistic's two 100gig HDD's arrived today.. Put him down in the Honest Seller list.

4. Any mod or admin here can be trusted othyerwise they would not be a mod or admin..

5. The above is one reason for asking for a location in the user profile. What we have or should have here is a thinkpad owners and admirers (sp?) club..

pianowizard · #21 Post by **pianowizard** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 11:26 pm

christopher_wolf wrote:
pianowizard wrote: *perks up*

Need any help with that? Just give me a call or something.

Also if you need some ECG leads or...yeah, stuff like that.

Thanks for offering help, but I am highly self-sufficient. Also, I do single-cell electrophysiology, so ECG stuff wouldn't be needed.

BruisedQuasar · #22 Post by **BruisedQuasar** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 12:16 pm

I find up and down sides to all the carriers. USPS is slow and post offices are often a slow hassle. I find USPS rarely loses mail. It happens but it is rare compared to the alternatives. Also, USPS self insures and they do not hold buyers to the outdated 100 plus year old cartage law that stipulates that insurance claims belong to the entity that BOUGHT It.

There are a lot of horror stories about sellers going through involved hassles when a buyer reports not getting or worse getting a product damaged from UPS or FedX. These carriers stick to the letter of the 1880s Cartage law. Meanwhile, the buyer is flaming because very few of them are familiar with cartage law. I've seen plenty of negative eBay feedback from buyers who did not understand the seller must file the claim, often meaning the buyer must ship the item to the originating UPS office!

USPS accepts claims only from parcel receivers and claims are accepted at any Post Office. Many US sellers get huge headaches, unwarranted accusations, and negative feedback from foreign buyers, especially Canadians. Few Canadians seem aware that if they demand any carrier BUT USPS, the carrier MUST charge them custom fees. Canadians will not allow any foreign private carrier to operate in Canada unless they assess & charge customs for the Canadian government.

No foreigner tells the USPS what to do & a government puts themselves in a bizarre position if they will not work with the government postal service of the largest economy in the world.

Yes, USPS delivery is inconsistent and goofy. But it is cheaper and comparatively safer. My grand mother knew USPS like her kitchen. She could accurately predict when a package or letter she sent would arrive, even overseas to APO address. The Post Office was that consistent.

I think she could still predict today; it is just a lot more complex. For instance, I can send something quicker to a friend in Southern Ohio than I can an hour from my house on the other side of Flint. I know why. Mail that goes due north of Flint must begin with the Detroit sorting center, be sent to a Flint Sorting center & then go to still another sorting center NW of where it is going, lets say Midland (home of Dow Chemical). Odd as this seems, we can not blame USPS. It is political.

Congress and special interests groups mess with USPS like they do every other major Government bureaucracy and USPS is the single largest employer in the USA and one of the top four employers in the world.

UPS must deal only with much smaller competitors and a Union.
My brother in law has worked for UPS for 30 some years. He tells me about rampant theft in UPS terminals. Many UPS terminal workers feel it is O.K. to steal new Computers and such from Terminals. They rationalize it as UPS self-insures so UPS will pay for the theft, not Mrs. Beth in Illinois or even whom ever made the PC.
It is O.K. to steal from UPS, the rationalization goes, because it is huge and could pay union workers more.

I know. UPS workers are well paid. But then...every study done on the topic finds that the more a worker is paid, the more likely he is to be disatisfied and more likely to steal from his employer, another reason for companies to take a team approach.

Ford & GM America must contend with considerable employee theft. Toyota and Honda America plants have very little theft, though they pay American workers a little less than UAW workers get and they get less lavish benefits. Heard of a strike yet?

About the seller and buyer ends of dishonesty. I do a lot of online buying & I am a partner in two large selling businesses. Both ends are full of sharks and pitfalls. There are buyers of Computing components and computers who exchange bad parts for new and then claim their item arrived dead on arrival. There are buyers who misuse feedback as an extortion weapon they flex at smaller sellers, but there are plenty of less than honest sellers who do the same. Then, there are sellers who have every word of eBay rules memorized. For instance, it is very rare for eBay to permanently remove any seller. When eBay acts against fraud sellers at all, they just get suspend for a few weeks or months. Some simply re-register under a different name.

Buyers should always check seller history and wonder why a "new seller" changed his name and "lost" his feedback just a few months ago.

There are buyers who use forged money orders and bank cashier checks (the easiest to steal and use of all business instruments) & small time punks who use a credit card, so they can cancel the payment, after they get the item. There are sellers who unload defective products on buyers by charging the price in inflated shipping charges and an insanely low price.

The last is a con. And a con job cannot work on an honest man. Many buyers are O.K. with highly inflated shipping because they feel both buyer and seller is getting over on eBay -- until they buy a battery from a certain Hongkong reseller who is quick to make
ripped-off buyers "happy" and neutralize any complaint they file in advance by ... refunding their money, which is the price, not the shipping charge.

Enough. I could write a book on the dishonesties and scams of online buyers and seller.

ronbo613 · #23 Post by **ronbo613** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 2:29 pm

I find USPS rarely loses mail.

They do a pretty good job with letters and small envelopes, in my experience, parcels are a whole different ballgame.

He tells me about rampant theft in UPS terminals.

Stuff gets stolen out of my PO Box all the time. Since the sender and post office are the only ones handling the goods, and the sender rarely steals their own stuff, not hard to see what's happening. There are thieves everywhere, I guess. Makes everyone want insurance for the packages, which creates more income.

#24 Post by **AlphaKilo470** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 2:42 pm

I'm not against USPS for delivery times or box loss as this is the first parcel that they lost with me. I'm against them because of their atrocious customer service. Seriously, they lost (or one of their workers stole) a box that I not only trusted them with but paid them to get where it needed to be and I paid extra for the insurance and now that they've broken trust and now owe me the $500 that is entitled to me now, they are nowhere to be found. I filed my first claim in early September and was told it takes up to a month just to show up in the system (assuming it even does) and earlier this month I had to file another claim when I found out that the first was lost. Seriously, I paid extra for them to be responsible for my package and now they are just totally blowing me off. Their customer service policy must be "if you ignore them long enough they'll leave." To top it off, before filling the claim I talked to a service rep who, when I asked about my package, said package delivery estimates are not guaranteed and when I mentioned it had been over a month she just kept rephrasing that initial argument. In essence, what I have dug out of their customer service is that packages aren't even guaranteed to get delivered and insurance is just an excuse to pay them extra money.

I'm still unhappy I was forced to sell my T21 for less than what I invested after owning it for less than two months so I could make some quick cover money to refund my disgruntled buyer without my bank account going negative while I wait on insurance. I'm hoping I'll have my $500 back for Christmas but knowing how fast and efficient the USPS is, I'll be happy to have my [censored] money by the end of 2008.

Robbyrobot · #25 Post by **Robbyrobot** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 8:59 am

My only contact with USPS is through the German postal system, when I send letters to the States, and people there send me parcels. Generally, I have had no problems, but I do experience an occasional "lost mail" over the years.

The most recent example was the apparent loss of a check I sent to pay a forum member for a screw kit I bought, and which he had even sent before receiving payment. I sent the check on July 27 and it hasn't arrived as of today, so I had the bank send a replacement and stopped payment on the missing check. This was very embarrassing and the only explanation or suspicion I have is that the member in question lives in Harrisburg - but not in Pennsylvania - and the check was possibly sent to the wrong city. The ZIP code was on the envelope, but it possibly was misread or ignored.

joester · #26 Post by **joester** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 10:17 am

I'm not sure I trust any of them anymore...

I sent a package to Compnerd4. It was "held" by customs until they were satisfied that it was indeed a package sent by me to Compnerd4.

They tacked on an additional $50 fee for their "services".

I now need to decide if I want to pay the $50 to have it delivered. Unfortunately, the additional fee almost doubles the original cost, and pretty much equals the estimated value of the contents.

Anyone else have this "service" added to their shipments??

Joe

Robbyrobot · #27 Post by **Robbyrobot** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 10:48 am

I sent a package to Compnerd4. It was "held" by customs until they were satisfied that it was indeed a package sent by me to Compnerd4.

They tacked on an additional $50 fee for their "services".

Was that U.S. Customs? And if so, what do they have to do with a package going to Canada, where Compnerd4 is? If anything, the Canadian customs people would be responsible for that - and certainly you as the shipper shouldn't have anything to do with customs matters.

This isn't some offshoot of the "security" hysteria, is it? I've never heard of parcels being inspected before they left the country, only when they arrive.

As for me, I've only rarely had anything to do with German customs - maybe two times in the last 15 years they made me pick up parcels my sister - she lives in the States - had sent (generally they just stamp the package and it gets delivered to your door) - and in one of the cases the parcel had been sent insured for $2000!!. The contents were worth around $20

qviri · #28 Post by **qviri** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 10:51 am

joester wrote:Anyone else have this "service" added to their shipments??

What carrier were you using?

compnerd4 · #29 Post by **compnerd4** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 11:10 am

joester wrote:I'm not sure I trust any of them anymore...

I sent a package to Compnerd4. It was "held" by customs until they were satisfied that it was indeed a package sent by me to Compnerd4.

They tacked on an additional $50 fee for their "services".

I now need to decide if I want to pay the $50 to have it delivered. Unfortunately, the additional fee almost doubles the original cost, and pretty much equals the estimated value of the contents.

Anyone else have this "service" added to their shipments??

Joe

Joe the last delivery attempt will be on Monday ill be paying for it then!!

joester · #30 Post by **joester** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:31 pm

I'll have to send money for compensation or something. Is that $50US, or Canadian?

To clear things up a bit...
This was a UPS carried package and Canadian Customs held it. Canadian Customs has added the fees. Not sure what all triggered my package as being a target, but something must have.

Compnerd4,
I'm still interested in the parts you have, and still want them. I'll PM you.

Fun fact:
For the cost of delivering the package through UPS, I could have driven the items and delivered them personally. Oh well.

Joe

RE: Dishonest Sellers

RE: Dishonest Sellers

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